Which AT/Set makes best use of Dual Pistol.

[Substaticman]

DP easily wins all the style points. 

 

But I was wondering, which AT and which sets allow Dual Pistols to do the most DPS? Something in Blasters? Or with corruptor and Kinetics? Maybe even Defender and Nature or Rad with proccs?

 

I really want to make one but never hear any praise for them or ever seen any good DPS numbers by anyone. So yeah, what can maximize DP to do amazing DPS, or is such a thing not possible?

[Troo]

Time has nice synergies.

[Substaticman]

32 minutes ago, Troo said:

Time has nice synergies.

I've seen that, but tbh the damage kinda seemed weak in terms of DPS. Then again I have yet to see any decent DP numbers posted period.

 

I'm leaning towards DP/Kin Corruptor if anyone has ever gotten one really tuned up at 50, but I'm not experienced enough. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Substaticman

[Apparition]

Dual Pistols is severely underrated.  It comes in about fourth of all blast sets for both single target and AoE damage, with Incendiary rounds loaded.  As for what ATs, the DP/Kin Corruptor you are leaning towards is very good.  As is Time/DP Defender, DP/Martial Blaster, and DP/Temporal Blaster.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Apparition

[Substaticman]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

Dual Pistols is severely underrated.  It comes in about fourth of all blast sets for both single target and AoE damage, with Incendiary rounds loaded.  As for what ATs, the DP/Kin Corruptor you are leaning towards is very good.  As is Time/DP Defender, DP/Martial Blaster, and DP/Temporal Blaster.

Awesome. I was also thinking has anyone here tried Nature/DP?   It has overgrowth (82% dmg, 12% hit), has corrosive (-25% res), and Soul Drain for lots of total potential dmg. BTW which has better both st and aoe, Fire?

 

 

[oldskool]

I've got one of each AT with DP.  It plays a bit differently per AT.  

So, what do you mean by "which sets allow Dual Pistols to do the most DPS?", exactly.  Are you speaking to a build that includes Dual Pistols or a build that focuses on ranged-only Dual Pistols?  There is a big difference in how this works on the ATs.  

I'll just get Sentinels out of the way, real quick.  If you want the most possible damage which includes both AoE, and ST, then Sentinels may not be that attractive for you.  Frankly, I really enjoy mine, but it mostly shines the brightest against large sacks of health and resistance.  Against small hordes of enemies it can pale in comparison to some Corruptor and Blaster combos.  Mid's greatly underestimates Sentinel Dual Pistols potential on any targets of EB+.  I don't want to over sell it too much, but I can guarantee you it is better than what the planner shows.  You need damage procs in order for this to work, but many Sentinel Secondaries will allow for this in a build.  A Sentinel Dual Pistols character running damage procs can easily hit 214+ DPS before Incarnates.  Once you start working on T4 Musculature (Sentinels need this more than most), Assault Hybrid, and a strong Interface, then it gets better.  The ceiling here is generally lower than a Blaster, and potentially some Corruptors (their builds depend a lot on what they're running).  So this is a good, but maybe not great option.  Still, Sentinels are plenty durable and lean into the whole ranged-only attack option quite well.  

Defenders.  Defenders make the most out of the debuff potential in Dual Pistols, hands down.  Piercing Rounds on Defenders offers a -20% resistance debuff which stacks with procs (Dual Pistols can run all 3 available) and anything else from the primary.  I run Dark Miasma/Dual Pistols and it is one of the longest running characters I have had.  I'll reroll and make alts on occasion.  I've stuck with this character.  My build does include damage procs and Soul Drain.  Its personal DPS really only matters in solo content.  On teams I am amplifying everyone else's DPS.  So for an indirect DPS increase a Defender is actually very solid.  

Blasters.  Sorry, but I think Dual Pistols all by itself kinda blows on Blasters.  I'm not a big fan of ranged only Dual Pistols Blasters.  I feel I can do better on either a Sentinel or Corruptor.  This is because I tend to lean heavily on procs in Dual Pistols and that strategy is at the heart of where a ranged only build gains noticeable damage.  Blasters don't really need procs to push damage, but Dual Pistols has a few issues that does rear its head in Blaster land.  Incendiary Ammo + the innately high accuracy of Dual Pistols makes the set better with sustained damage.  However, Blasters can be very bursty.  They seem to work best when leaning into that.  So for a full range build, I'd prefer a primary with Aim + Snipe.  Still, a DP/Tactial Arrow or DP/Devices build can be good.  You can shoehorn in Build-Up by putting Gaussian's into a to-hit toggle.  Procs can be tricky to really leverage while also making sure your defense is high.  It can be done, but Sentinels and Defenders do it easier at the sake of general damage.  I've tried a few pairs of Dual Pistols on Blasters.  I've come back around to Dual Pistols and Martial Combat.  It has that John Wick vibe, but there is some synergy in the pair.  For me, a Dual Pistols Blaster works very well as a hybrid Blapper.  I use a lot of fast animating and recharging attacks between Dual Pistols and Martial to funnel Defiance buffs into Eagles Claw.  Eagles Claw in turn buffs all my other damage by 16% for several seconds.  That is on top of Reach for the Limit and the potential for Gaussians to trigger (that's more likely on teams for me than solo though).  Still, this approach leans heavily on just Pistols and Executioner's Shot to be weaved with Storm Kick and Eagles Claw.  For AoE, I have a lot of sphere options but these are all best used in melee.  Not a safe combo to play at all levels, but at 50 it works very well.  Blaster's making use of full sets for their bonuses take the lowest possible hit in Dual Pistols damage.  

Corruptors.  Corruptors have a ton of potential.  One thing that works really well on them is their general damage plus buff/debuff mods put Swap Ammo in a middle of the road realm.  Piercing Rounds brings a big resistance debuff on Defenders.  It is slightly less on Corruptors (-15%) but still higher than either Sentinels or Blasters (-9.6%).  Note that, I devalue Piercing Rounds on Sentinels and Blasters.  I've found Incendiary Ammo running 24/7 to be the best approach and both of those ATs have better choices than Piercing Rounds for general damage dealing.  Piercing Rounds has its uses, but I find myself skipping it a lot on those ATs.  Corruptors and Defenders though can make more use out of it which can be nice.  So Corruptors can be a fun options for really exploring what Swap Ammo has to offer, but that isn't really a just DPS comment.  Corruptor secondaries like Kinetics can absolutely give it a lot of potential.  Fulcrum Shift can cap your damage easily which means full set bonuses may not be what you want in some of your attacks.  Thankfully, Executioner's Shot and Suppressive Fire can easily take a full load out of procs.  Depending on what procs you go with that could be anywhere from 3 to 6 with other utility procs also possibilities (Analyze Weakness, Force Feedback, Achilles' Heel, etc...).  Kinetics can be light enough on some sets that you can do a lot with slotting.  You'd really want Tactics to cover your to-hit needs but Executioner's Shot has a higher than normal accuracy modifier.  With Siphon Speed stacking, Hasten, and other global bonuses your recharge is pretty good.  Is this going to out damage a Blaster?  At pure range it probably will, but it isn't as clear cut against some Blappers.  Will it out damage a Sentinel?  For AoE, yes when talking max targets.  For single-target, it depends if you're pushing all procs or not and also what kind of enemy we're talking.  So it is possible in the broadest possible terms, but there is room for maybes.  I originally created a DP/Dark character but decided I wanted to push higher debuffing so rerolled as a Defender.  That build original ran procs (the Defender absolutely does) and Soul Drain.  Tar Patch + Soul Drain + Hail of Bullets with Fury of the Gladiator is nothing to sneeze at.  After I rerolled into a Defender, I wanted to make a new Corr.  So I made Dual Pistols and Traps.  That's a fun pair too and the wide range of debuffs make it stronger in practice than it looks on paper.  Can it out DPS things?  By itself running solo, oh hell yes.  Debuffs are worth their weight in gold for making tough content faster to complete.  On faster teams, its more 'meh'.  Still fun, but maybe not as good as some other combos.  

So... That's a big wall of text, which I tend to do a lot, but hopefully is somewhat enlightening for some.  Who's the real winner here?  Well, it is hard to beat a Blaster for just pure simplicity of building plus very consistent damage.  Their overall ranged only options are OK but can really shine with mixed melee.  Corruptors can potentially be better at pure range DPS with Dual Pistols than all the other ATs, but this is assuming an AWFUL lot of build choices.  Corruptors can be very powerful, but that power is not a guarantee.  Sentinels can be very good runners up to either of these ATs within single target, but they may not be what you're looking for.  Defenders are just the best choice for general team play where you're amplifying everyone else's damage vs your own.  

Edited June 5, 2020 by oldskool

[Frostweaver]

Like @Apparition, I have both a DP/MC and DP/Temporal Blaster. and weirdly enough, a Time/DP defender too... although I also like my DP/FA sentinel.

DP/MC and DP/Time play very. very different... both are solid short-range blasters, but despite the same primary the similarities end there... But both are very very solidly tough... Dp is SWEET in melee range, and incredibly survivable and destructive, and actually pushes past fire/fire for Lut farm clear speeds 4/8 when I farm for vet levels. (The only reason I farm anymore) with similar incarnates.

 

And the time/DP defender is just incredibly tough. It really does not play like any other defender and is really difficult to describe... maybe more like a scrapper with better range and great team buffs. Sentinel is closer, but better at taking AVs and is one of the few melee-range sentinels I have ever played. And she can survive in melee range just fine and dandy.

[Substaticman]

6 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

Like @Apparition, I have both a DP/MC and DP/Temporal Blaster. and weirdly enough, a Time/DP defender too... although I also like my DP/FA sentinel.

DP/MC and DP/Time play very. very different... both are solid short-range blasters, but despite the same primary the similarities end there... But both are very very solidly tough... Dp is SWEET in melee range, and incredibly survivable and destructive, and actually pushes past fire/fire for Lut farm clear speeds 4/8 when I farm for vet levels. (The only reason I farm anymore) with similar incarnates.

 

And the time/DP defender is just incredibly tough. It really does not play like any other defender and is really difficult to describe... maybe more like a scrapper with better range and great team buffs. Sentinel is closer, but better at taking AVs and is one of the few melee-range sentinels I have ever played. And she can survive in melee range just fine and dandy.

 

Awesome. I'll try those out then.

By any chance have you tried a nature/dp/dark at 50? It seems like that 82% overgrowth dmg combined with the -25% res from corrosive can be awesome dmg on top of soul drain. 

[Frostweaver]

1 minute ago, Substaticman said:

 

Awesome. I'll try those out then.

By any chance have you tried a nature/dp/dark at 50? It seems like that 82% overgrowth dmg combined with the -25% res from corrosive can be awesome dmg on top of soul drain. 

nope, I already have 5 nature toons...2 masterminds, 2 defenders, and a controller, but I might try that out sometime.

[plainguy]

On 6/4/2020 at 7:00 PM, Substaticman said:

I've seen that, but tbh the damage kinda seemed weak in terms of DPS. Then again I have yet to see any decent DP numbers posted period.

 

I'm leaning towards DP/Kin Corruptor if anyone has ever gotten one really tuned up at 50, but I'm not experienced enough. 

I have a DP Kin.. The build is on the forums.. Darkir actually helped out A LOT with the final build.. I think barring any changes with the new IOS out that are out. That it is the best DP kin build around.. Really keeps you in the mix.. 

 

[Techno]

On 6/5/2020 at 11:36 AM, Frostweaver said:

Like @Apparition, I have both a DP/MC and DP/Temporal Blaster. and weirdly enough, a Time/DP defender too... although I also like my DP/FA sentinel.

DP/MC and DP/Time play very. very different... both are solid short-range blasters, but despite the same primary the similarities end there... But both are very very solidly tough... Dp is SWEET in melee range, and incredibly survivable and destructive, and actually pushes past fire/fire for Lut farm clear speeds 4/8 when I farm for vet levels. (The only reason I farm anymore) with similar incarnates.

 

And the time/DP defender is just incredibly tough. It really does not play like any other defender and is really difficult to describe... maybe more like a scrapper with better range and great team buffs. Sentinel is closer, but better at taking AVs and is one of the few melee-range sentinels I have ever played. And she can survive in melee range just fine and dandy.

What is a Lut farm for vet levels?

[JayboH]

Wouldn't Poison make a decent secondary/primary for DP?

[Redlynne]

27 minutes ago, JayboH said:

Wouldn't Poison make a decent secondary/primary for DP?

Conditionally yes.  Depends on how you play it, and how skilled the Player is at playing it.

[Frostweaver]

8 hours ago, Techno said:

What is a Lut farm for vet levels?

lut farm is a fire or s/l farm that is 'toned down' by disallowing boss spawns in your settings, but is maxxed out for difficulty (4/8)
 

bosses have +5% to hit and damage over luts, which, when stacked with +4 difficulty, cut defenses in half... Thus, a lut farm dramatically decreases incoming damage and they die (;owering active enemies) at a NUCH higher rate, as well as being vulnerable to blaster-level mitigation like ice patch . Yes, you only get a quarter of the inf or veteran experience from luts as bosses, but since you can rip through them in a third of the time, it generally balances out with boss farming for AT's with LOTS of aoe but low defenses, like blasters, with much higher safety.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Frostweaver

[Redlynne]

10 hours ago, Techno said:

What is a Lut farm for vet levels?

As @Frostweaver explained, it's a Lieutenant Farm with no Bosses (or higher) in it, where the name of the game is maximum speed slaughter (because, Minions and Lieutenants only).  It's a Player designed way to skew the threat you face in order to maximize your safety at the expense of the NPCs you're attacking.  In other words, a highly contrived scenario result of a deliberate design choice for the purpose of minimum risk while still gaining rewards.

[Frostweaver]

Like all farming, pretty much.

[plainguy]

Blaster DP Ninja Training full type defense minus Psi - It seems as if the standard sword types are fixed NOT to have invisible weapons when switching between DP and sword attacks. 

Blaster DP Fire Manipulation -  Again almost full typed defense cap minus negative and Psi. 

 

Blaster DP Device - Range /Smash/lethal defense cap  - double gun drone due to high recharge. Burnout allows 2 gun drones  and back to back Hail of bullets..  Issue Gun drone has huge AOE aggro which makes it last only a few seconds in melee range..  Hopefully this will be fixed..  

 

Blaster Martial combat - smash, lethal, range, energy, negative defense cap.  Ki Push followed up by a gun shot is just fun to look at.. 

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

Have a DP/FF Corr.  Tankmage.
Have a DP/Inv Sentinel.  Tankmage.
Have a bunch of DP/* blasters and Defenders too.  My problem is severe altitis.  So most of them don't have more than a handful or two of levels on them.

[Saikochoro]

In my opinion you can’t beat the fun and style of DP/MC blaster. I have tried dual pistols on blaster and sentinel and blaster wins hands down. Dual pistols feels incredibly anemic on sentinel. 
 

However, pair it with martial combat, leap into mobs, and just melt them with a blaster. It has very good AoE (or die before hail of bullets got bugged, but that will be fixed in page 6).  It has good utility, and can still kills bosses and higher HP foes easily. 
 

Plus nothing beats ki push into spinning kick and finished off with executioners shot.  DP/MC no contest. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Six-Six]

I don't think the AT or partner power matters as much as how you play it. 

I have:

DP/SR Sent that has such a high recharge that she can deal two chains worth of damage in the time it takes a blaster to fire off one.
DP/Dark Sent and DP/Poison Corr that didn't invest much in def/res because the to hit debuff takes care of it.
DP/WP Sent that is a ranged tank as opposed to a ranged scrapper
DP/MC Blaster that only took DP's ST attacks because he carries a revolver not a semi-automatic... who basically skeet-shoots enemies


Pick one that fits your play style and rock the hell out of it!

[BlackenBlue71]

I have a DP/Willpower Sentinel. I've heard that Ninjitsu and Regeneration also pair well with Dual Pistols on that AT.  

 

I also have a DP/Trick Arrow Corruptor. Some of the TA powers compliment the DP ones quite well. Plan to respec, because I don't use Bullet Rain much on him. 

[Onlyasandwich]

On 6/13/2020 at 11:52 PM, JayboH said:

Wouldn't Poison make a decent secondary/primary for DP?

I absolutely love my poison/dp defender.

 

Poison does have a few problems that other sets like time solve better, most importantly its lack of any baseline defense buffs. The only way to easily debuff the whole spawn is vg, and that has you jumping in the middle of the spawn.

 

Poison itself doesn't demand much of your slots though, so you have a lot of power in your secondary and flexibility to mule out pool powers for more defense.

 

It plays like a dream on a team of course, and poison moves fast with little setup. This lets you focus on fun dp blasting. If built with proper defense, it solos well enough, but will require strategy to play on +3 or more. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Onlyasandwich