Players that took their shields/buff powers, but don't use them

[Strawberry]

I remember this being a weird issue I'd see every once in a while on Live. I feel like it was most often associated with Fire/Kinetic controllers that went with fotm and wanted the speed farm, but didn't want to bother speed boosting their teammates. This was also a more understandable issue back before one cast of a buff like Deflection Shield would buff the entire team, but seeing it on Homecoming is a bit surprising.

I still feel like it is most common among controllers that don't necessarily want to bother with their secondary as much as their primary and only seem to bother buffing once at the start of each mission.

Today I grouped with a 45 Sonic/Sonic Defender who never once put either of his shields on any teammates. I checked his info and he definitely took both of them, but only kept his large toggle shield (Sonic Dispersion) and the toggle -res (Disruption Field) active. I also kept checking the group buffs info in the party window to make sure he wasn't only sometimes hitting a few teammates with his shields (since the party buff range isn't especially large), but no. No one ever seemed to have them. Stayed and ran a few missions with the group, so it wasn't even just a one time thing. Seemed especially strange for a Defender to be ignoring them.

Back on Live, Kinetics seemed to be the most problematic for this sort of thing and asking "would you mind Speed Boosting me please?" sometimes got repetitive, but outside of this strange Sonic Defender ignoring his buffs that I ran into today, I feel like Thermal and Cold shields are the ones I don't get most often even when someone has taken the powers.

Just curious if anyone else still runs into this?

[ImpousVileTerror]

I find that not everyone plays the game to the same "level."  Some players just need to be reminded that they have certain Powers.   Other players will be on the ball.  Some others still will get irritated if you communicate anything which could be perceived as an attempt to "tell" them "how to play" their character.

I generally just try to stay relaxed about the whole thing.  I don't play the game to be challenged, so I avoid +4 Difficulty teams, and therefore the lack of constant uptime on ally buffs is less of an issue.

[Doomguide2005]

It happens, even when I find myself running at +4/×8, but like ImpousVileTerror I typically just shrug and deal with it best I can.

 

And since I'm often running support characters I try to not get too scrapper-locked and keep my buffs flowing

Edited June 6, 2020 by Doomguide2005

[LiquidBandage]

If the group and or the character(s) that take the hits aren't having any problems, what is the issue here? 

A portion of the time the buffs are superfluous. Either the mobs don't debuff whatever it is the power buffs or they are already at caps. Plus unless the group is semi-patient and doesn't scatter (to scout or TP to the boss or whatever), characters get out of range and you spend a fair amount of time trying to buff the 1-2 characters that always run away or hide. Then you are out of sync with the group and have to run to catch up. Then you either waste your AoE on only a handful of mobs and get out of sync with the group's rhythym or you hold back. 

 

It really helps to play a wide variety of ATs and powersets within those ATs to understand where the holes are built into the system. Dark Armor? You're gonna have problems with Energy attacks. Invulnerability? You are gonna have a bad day with all things Psionic. If you see that pitfall coming you can buff to bridge the gap. Otherwise you are wasting your time.

 

Typically from what I have seen, if people aren't constantly engaged, they will wander off and get into trouble. If the possibility of danger (not being buffed) keeps people in line, then maybe that is a good thing. 

[SuperPlyx]

I have 1 toon with cold shields and honestly rarely use them. 1 reason is I alt to much and just forget I even have them. 

But a lot of teams I am on just are going so fast and not really taking any damage it hardly seems worth it.

[kiramon]

Sometimes team doesn’t need em. 
nowadays teams are so spread and destroy it’s just annoying to get anyone and becomes like it used to be buff x7 lol

 

i usually just do the door gather and that’s enough at 50. 
 

sonic is under appreciated, but a lot of people cap defense and leave their resistance in the 50s, so it has much more actual usage than FF later on at least

[Ukase]

I have a cold/ice defender; I recall clearly being told to leave the trial and visit the tailor and select minimal fx because I was obscuring their costume. I told them I would never visit a tailor to do such a thing. I loathe seeing the tailor; not sure why. Just seems like a waste of time. 

Come to think of it  - I don't think I've played that defender since! 

Life is too short to be worried about buffs when most players (that aren't new) are already kitted out and don't need buffs anyway. I will go through all the buffs on lower level teams, though. That's when they're most needed, I believe. 

That said, on an empath, I won't give clear mind to a scrapper or a tank, or any other AT with armor that protects against holds, immobs, etc. (except for specific enemies that have higher mag stuff, like Hami & the mitos) Now would I give ID to them, except in the aforementioned cases; but those without status protection will get them. 

And...I'm not chasing anyone down to cast 'em. If you're not near, I assume you're doing fine and don't need 'em. 

[Primantis]

A lot of it depends on what I'm playing.

 

If I'm on my Cold Defender or Kin I just buff as we go. No need to stop the gravy train. If someone is off doing their own thing, then they miss the buffs.

 

If I'm on something like my Time Defender I'll usually tell the team "Buffs by the door, if you want them stick around". Wait a few moments, then buff. From then on out I "Buff on the go" trying to catch as many people as I can in the radius of my two PBAOE buffs.

 

The single target buff goes out to who I think would benefit the most. Although I can be forgetful about that one as it's not on my action bar! I just use a keybind for it.

[Outrider_01]

Electric Affinity, you can tell my corrupter is casting and doing something.  It is a buff set that is basically an attack chain on your group for heal, recovery, +recharge, damage and to hit.  Spam Spam Spam!  Got a list of gripes about half the powers, but the 4 primary ones you can tell the character is buffing.  Sadly the set doesn't really work on corrupters with the short duration and short recharge, you can buff the crap out of the team but almost no time to use an attack.  Might have to drop all but 2 Fire blast and go all secondary + power pool old school Empath style.

[Heraclea]

I generally find characters with player buffs a PITA to play.  Speed Boost and similar movement buffs are the worst, and I just will not play Kinetics.  They enable players to zip out of range and then expect me to be by their side as they bawl for more when it wears off.  If a character has an AoE buff, I typically fire it if it is up when several players are gathered, rather than announce its availability.  If I have a heal, I typically will focus on a tank or similar character and concentrate on keeping them going.  Everyone seems to be constantly rushing ahead and out of range, and I am on a weak character with little damage throughput and no mez protection. 

[Peacemoon]

I think when you play a duo with your significant other, make sure you decide beforehand who’s good at keeping track at buffs. Nothing worse than getting addicted to temporal selection and having to say “don’t forget buffs babe” every 2 minutes 😳😳

[Naraka]

On the opposite end of the spectrum: Are there any bubblers out there that get peeved off when people exit the mission and run off or enter the mission first before everyone assembles at the door?  I can't double stack my shields that way!  Granted, I don't enforce it or anything, but it's just so much better to get over soft-cap for the whole team for at least the first couple min of a mission or crazy resistances for a while.

[Gulbasaur]

53 minutes ago, Naraka said:

On the opposite end of the spectrum: Are there any bubblers out there that get peeved off when people exit the mission and run off or enter the mission first before everyone assembles at the door? 

Not a bubbler, but a lot of other AoE buffs work the same way. I've given up trying to gather people, either fire them off in combat when we're together or just let people miss them. If people don't want buffs, that's their choice. 

 

I've noticed this is more prevalent in some archetypes than others, due to different playstyle preferences. Alas. 

[Strawberry]

Totally agreed that in some teams the buffs aren't even needed and players are already soft-capped or mowing down the missions regardless.

In the instance that happened most recently concerning the lvl 45 Sonic Defender, our team was actually struggling. We had a few deaths multiple times and even suffered a complete team wipe in the last mission before I called it quits and took a break after we finished. The shields would 100% have been a welcome addition in this case.

I didn't say anything about the lack of shields because I don't like to call out players and agree there are different skill levels or different ways people play, but that still doesn't lessen my confusion.

I'm admittedly somewhat surprised to come back to this thread and see so many people trying to come up with ways to defend players who don't use their buffs/shields, but I'm sorry, I can't figure out any kind of defense, for a Defender specifically, to not be using their primary that revolves around team shields in a team that is having trouble and dying in their missions. Ymmv

Edited June 6, 2020 by Strawberry

[EmmySky]

Working on incarnates for my dark/dark/dark defender, her build is slightly susceptible to stuns.  Last night I saw we had an empath on the team but I never got any CM.  I didn't bother looking at if they had the power or not, I didnt bother asking for it because people think ZOMG don't tell me how to play!  I just staggered around til it wore off and if people died in the meantime, not my problem 😁

 

OTOH my 50 emp is a MM who soloed, so when I rolled a grab/emp troller the other day I had to relearn how to emp for a team.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and think they are just used to solo play or are re-acclimating to a set.

[Force Redux]

3 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

Not a bubbler, but a lot of other AoE buffs work the same way. I've given up trying to gather people, either fire them off in combat when we're together or just let people miss them. If people don't want buffs, that's their choice. 

 

I've noticed this is more prevalent in some archetypes than others, due to different playstyle preferences. Alas. 

As someone who often plays bubblers, and other support types, I'm of the same mind. I announce "hug me for buffs" once at the mission start (I have a simple macro), and then I just buff the murder ball periodically. Seems to work. As you said, those who wander off either don't need them, or will quickly learn they do, and stick closer.

 

Some support sets make this easier than others. If I put Life Giving Spores on the ground, people tend to gravitate towards the SFX, and then I can hit them with Overgrowth and stuff more easily. Visual cues are helpful. 

 

Back at Issue 1 on my Dark/Dark defender the graphics were often too subtle, and no one knew where the anchor for Darkest Night was, stayed in range of Shadowfall, etc. At least bubbles were simple to understand for those who don't read chat. 😀

[Oubliette_Red]

I play a lot of buff/debuffet characters and I will reapply buffs whenever possible, if it's an AoE I will pop it off when the most people are gathered, generally when we enter missions of in the middle of combat. The one habit I did have to break myself of is trying to heal everyone regardless of where they were. Sorry, but if you run off on your glass-hammer and get in over your head I will not go harrying off away from the main group (or tank) to save your bacon at the risk of my own character's health.

 

I don't assume that anyone is soft-capped because then I don't have to consciously think about when or who to buff. Kind of like using a turn signal, if you always use it then you don't have to think about it, you just do it.

 

[Coyotedancer]

I tend to run most of my support characters with mid-level teams rather than tossing them into end-game smash-fests, so their buffs are needed/wanted a little more than they would be otherwise. Given that, I do use them often, and I just hit the group opportunistically. I don't chase down individual strays. I just wait until there's a pause or a fight in close-quarters or some other natural bottleneck that forces most of the group close together.

 

If you pay attention and can react quickly enough, those opportunities do come up reasonably often and taking advantage of one is a whole lot easier than trying to actively cat-herd seven total maniacs. In my experience, even a not-so-uber group of 30-somethings just ISN'T going to listen when you say "Gather for Buffs"... Ever.

[Oubliette_Red]

2 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

I tend to run most of my support characters with mid-level teams rather than tossing them into end-game smash-fests, so their buffs are needed/wanted a little more than they would be otherwise. Given that, I do use them often, and I just hit the group opportunistically. I don't chase down individual strays. I just wait until there's a pause or a fight in close-quarters or some other natural bottleneck that forces most of the group close together.

 

If you pay attention and can react quickly enough, those opportunities do come up reasonably often and taking advantage of one is a whole lot easier than trying to actively cat-herd seven total maniacs. In my experience, even a not-so-uber group of 30-somethings just ISN'T going to listen when you say "Gather for Buffs"... Ever.

I remember the pre-DFB days of low-level sewer runs and just following teams of lowbies on my L50 Kin or Emp applying buffs/heals.

 

[Coyotedancer]

Yep... I did that with my little Rad Defender, Beans. That and "drive-by" bubbling lowbies in Atlas and Galaxy with Suzume, my FF Defender, back before everyone thought Force Field's shields were LOLTERRIBAD and utterly useless.

 

'Good fun once upon a time, but I don't really do any of that anymore. People get grouchy about their costumes these days, or they hate the particular buff (Hi, Speed Boost. I'm looking at you-), or they just find any help that they didn't request annoying... Or they're standing too close to the Boots, who'll get bent out of shape if I interrupt their roleplay.  So, like TaxiBots and joining teams as a bridge, for me at least, being a Drive-by Defender has gone the way of the dodo. XD

[MTeague]

I would find this puzzling. I mean, I'd be disappointed, but I could kinda understand it, if they just didn't take the "ally only" buffs.

But if you actually TAKE the buffs, I'd be surprised if they didn't use them. 

Maybe they only took them as IO mules?

 

Or maybe they've read 835 threads about how everyone is softcapped (fallacy) and how bubbles are useless (fallacy), believed them, and therefore gave up?

Edited June 6, 2020 by MTeague

[kiramon]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

I would find this puzzling. I mean, I'd be disappointed, but I could kinda understand it, if they just didn't take the "ally only" buffs.

But if you actually TAKE the buffs, I'd be surprised if they didn't use them. 

Maybe they only took them as IO mules?

 

Or maybe they've read 835 threads about how everyone is softcapped (fallacy) and how bubbles are useless (fallacy), believed them, and therefore gave up?

Big bubble can softcap the majority of players who put even a semblance of thought into their build 

[Strawberry]

4 minutes ago, kiramon said:

Big bubble can softcap the majority of players who put even a semblance of thought into their build 

Mind you, this wasn't a fully IO'd out team. If I recall correctly, there was only one lvl 50 with a decent amount of IO's, but most of the team seemed to be between 20-40, with only a few sets. We also were dying often enough. As someone who used to main Sonic/Elec Defender back on Live, I'm certain the individual shields would have been useful.

[kiramon]

1 minute ago, Strawberry said:

Mind you, this wasn't a fully IO'd out team. If I recall correctly, there was only one lvl 50 with a decent amount of IO's, but most of the team seemed to be between 20-40, with only a few sets. We also were dying often enough. As someone who used to main Sonic/Elec Defender back on Live, I'm certain the individual shields would have been useful.

Sometimes there are just fails 🙂

[MTeague]

13 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

Mind you, this wasn't a fully IO'd out team. If I recall correctly, there was only one lvl 50 with a decent amount of IO's, but most of the team seemed to be between 20-40, with only a few sets. We also were dying often enough. As someone who used to main Sonic/Elec Defender back on Live, I'm certain the individual shields would have been useful.

Plus if these were sonic bubbles, thats +Resistance, and more resistance to layer on top of defense is always a good thing.