Weekly Discussion 56: Traps

[JayboH]

3 minutes ago, drbuzzard2 said:

If real damage isn't an option, I'd rather have something which does a support oriented purpose so buffing or debuffing.

Yeah I assume it would need to be similar to Time Bomb's damage, it's just that having trip mine and time bomb together is really weird and just yuck

 

Considering the state of play today I mean

[drbuzzard2]

I agree. It was a weird idea to have the last two powers be damage powers. At least you can pile up trip mines.

[carroto]

I don't have much to add to what's already been said, but the endurance cost of Web Grenade has always seemed too high to me.  It costs the same as immobilizes that do damage.  That much endurance has always seemed like too high a cost to pay for what it does.  Other ATs that get immobilizes usually get damage and another effect for that end cost.  Ideally I'd either reduce the end cost or make it more worthwhile in some way.

[JayboH]

56 minutes ago, carroto said:

I don't have much to add to what's already been said, but the endurance cost of Web Grenade has always seemed too high to me.  It costs the same as immobilizes that do damage.  That much endurance has always seemed like too high a cost to pay for what it does.  Other ATs that get immobilizes usually get damage and another effect for that end cost.  Ideally I'd either reduce the end cost or make it more worthwhile in some way.

Is that what happened with Toxic Web Grenade?

[Monos King]

I'm totally down for the idea to give seeker drones spammable recharge.

 Things to note:

1. Giving Faraday Cage treatment to triage beacon is a silent nerf since it removes stacking from an already low benefit power
2. Detonate is in even worst condition than Time Bomb (though the ability to on-demand off an pet has present and future uses)
3. Traps is an offense oriented set that shines with high recharge

Pretty much I agree with most of the suggestions. Right now I'd like to see the offense attribute maintained in a manner that expands it's specialty to team play. Throwing trip mines is a cool idea. Keeping their activation time bit making them not interruptible might help as well. 

 

Don't remember if detonator does more damage based on rank of the henchmen but it needs to. I discussed with someone a suggestion to make detonator a moderate recharge click where throughout the abilities duration, should the pet ever die the power activates (much like the Warhulks death explosion) and using the move on the same henchman twice explodes all Detonated henchmen. Ideally dismissing an Detonate-equipped henchman would also cause it to go off, leaving the pets body behind. It would also be possible to make it so that detonating a henchman twice is the sole criteria to control when the henchman explodes.

 

In regards to Triage beacon, I wonder what just flat halfing it's recharge but giving it aid self level interrupt would do for the power.

[JayboH]

1.  Having 300~ regen in a big 40' area everywhere is not a low benefit power - that's like Fast Healing + Integration combined, it's faster than any of the blaster regen sustains, and it does it on top of all the other benefits an entire team has

 

2.  Agreed

 

3.  Agreed, as is Trick Arrow

 

I would never suggest giving more interrupt to abilities in this game - I get you really want to have mega recharge for the set so you can stack it

[Redlynne]

Defender

Traps	Lvl	Acc	Dmg	Act	Int	Cast	Rch	End	Rng	Radius	Arc	Area
Web Grenade	1	1	-	-	-	1.37s	4s	7.8	70ft	-	-	Character
Caltrops	1	1	-	-	-	1.07s	45s	7.8	25ft	-	-	Location
Triage Beacon	2	1	-	-	-	2.77s	200s	13	-	-	-	Character
Acid Mortar	6	1	-	-	-	2.77s	90s	13	-	-	-	Character
Force Field Generator	8	1	-	-	-	2.03s	15s	13	20ft	-	-	Location
Poison Trap	12	1	-	-	-	2.77s	90s	13	-	-	-	Character
Seeker Drones	18	1	-	-	-	2.03s	90s	15.6	60ft	-	-	Location
Trip Mine	26	1	-	-	4s	5s	20s	13	-	-	-	Character
Time Bomb	32	1	-	-	8s	9s	360s	26	-	-	-	Character

 

---

 

Mastermind

Traps	Lvl	Acc	Dmg	Act	Int	Cast	Rch	End	Rng	Radius	Arc	Area
Web Grenade	1	1	-	-	-	1.37s	4s	9.75	70ft	-	-	Character
Caltrops	2	1	-	-	-	1.07s	45s	9.75	25ft	-	-	Location
Triage Beacon	4	1	-	-	-	2.77s	200s	13	-	-	-	Character
Acid Mortar	10	1	-	-	-	2.77s	90s	16.25	-	-	-	Character
Force Field Generator	16	1	-	-	-	2.03s	15s	16.25	20ft	-	-	Location
Poison Trap	20	1	-	-	-	2.77s	90s	16.25	-	-	-	Character
Seeker Drones	28	1	-	-	-	2.03s	90s	19.5	60ft	-	-	Location
Trip Mine	35	1	-	-	4s	5s	20s	16.25	-	-	-	Character
Detonator	38	1	-	-	-	2.03s	600s	32.5	100ft	-	-	Character

 

---

 

Recommendations for changes below.

 

---

 

T1 Web Grenade

• Change from Ranged (single target) to be a spherical Target AoE with a 7ft radius (basically melee radius around $Target) with a Max Targets of 5.

Note that such a change would be under 1/2 the 15ft radius of Web Envelope for Soldiers of Arachnos as well as 1/2 the Max Targets.

7² / 15² = 49 / 225 = 0.218

At 1/5th the area of effect in square feet, the 4s recharge of Web Grenade (Traps) is justified relative to the 20s recharge of Web Envelope (Soldier Mace Mastery).

At 1/2 the max targets, the differential between a Level 1/Tier 1 primary/secondary power and a Level 35+/Tier 2 Mace Mastery power is also justified.

All other power parameters remain unchanged.

 

---

 

T2 Caltrops

• Change recharge and duration (both) from 45 seconds to 30 seconds.

This change is intended to help Caltrops be "more mobile" (in that it can be cast more often in new locations).

Uptime remains unchanged.  30 seconds of duration on Caltrops will still be double the duration of "rain" AoE powers such as Sleet and Rain of Fire.

All other power parameters remain unchanged.

Recommend this adjustment to the Caltrops power be ported to ALL powersets that use Caltrops (including Ninja Jounin pets).

 

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T3 Triage Beacon

• Change from Click static pet summoning power to instead be a Toggle spherical PBAoE power so as to make the effect "mobile" as well as "sticky" to the caster.

This change is intended to prevent Triage Beacon from being something that is summoned and then quickly left behind, unable to follow the caster.

Make it look like one of these ...

 

 

 

... except with green laser light beams coming out of it instead of blue or red.

Intent is to make main power parameters remain (relatively) unchanged.

 

---

 

T4 Acid Mortar

• No changes recommended.

 

---

 

T5 Force Field Generator

• (Wishful thinking) ... Grant Force Field Drone a movement speed buff when pet's powers are affecting only self (1 Target) because no allies are within radius range of aura buffs.

Change is intended to help Force Field Generator "catch up" faster when it gets left behind (and is thus not buffing anyone other than itself).

Recommend this adjustment to the Force Field Drone power be ported to ALL powersets that use Force Field Drone.

 

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T6 Poison Trap

• No changes recommended.

 

---

 

T7 Seeker Drones

• Change recharge time from 90 seconds to 60 seconds.
• Change duration of summoned Seeker Drones from 240 seconds to 120 seconds.
• Change chance for Disorient into a 100% chance for Knockup.
• Disable Stun enhancement slotting and enable Knockback enhancement slotting.

Change is intended to make Seeker Drones more "relevant and available" as alpha strike attacks, particularly from Stealth.

Unreliable Stun effect is less useful than a Knockup under most circumstances.

Recommend this adjustment to the Seeker Drones power be ported to ALL powersets that use Seeker Drones.

 

---

 

T8 Trip Mine

• Remove Interrupt Time from power.
• Disable Interrupt Time enhancement slotting.
• Change power Activation time from 5 seconds to 0 seconds(!) following the precedent of Hail of Bullets (Dual Pistols).
• Trip Mines are "summoned" in zero time and manifest at the feet of the caster, but take 5 seconds to arm themselves(!) before they can activate for self-destruction.
• Casting Trip Mines does not Immobilize the caster.  The Trip Mine is simply "dropped" in place at the caster's location and begins to arm itself automatically.
• Crouching animation for Trip Mines deployment is removed.  The summoned Trip Mine however retains its activation animation to indicate when it is ready to attack.

Changes are intended to make Trip Mine a "drop on the run" power which can still be used for Toe Bombing™, in addition to creating minefields behind the caster's movements.

The point and purpose of this change is to free up the caster from the burden of spending FIVE SECONDS(!) of casting time per Trip Mines deployment without altering the delay after casting before the Trip Mines are "armed and ready" to detonate.

Recommend this adjustment to the Trip Mines power be ported to ALL powersets that use Trip Mines (I'm looking at you, Devices powerset!).

 

---

 

T9 Time Bomb

• Change power from STUPIDLY LONG ACTIVATION (9 seconds?!? really?!?!?) to instead be a quick crouch and stand (I'm thinking no more than 3 seconds with a 1 second Interrupt) to summon Time Bomb pet.
• Change power from a Click that detonates on a preset delay timer to instead be a Toggle.
• Toggle power ON to deploy Time Bomb at caster's location.
• Toggle power OFF to detonate Time Bomb ON COMMAND.
• Change recharge from STUPIDLY LONG 360 seconds to instead be only 60 seconds, which of course cannot begin until Toggle OFF which detonates the previous deployment.

Changes intended to make Time Bomb a power actually worth taking and using ... rather than being a power that defines Joke Character ... and practically by definition is more trouble than it is worth to use (let alone enhance) in its legacy (since Issue 0!) configuration.

Recommend this adjustment to the Time Bomb power be ported to ALL powersets that use Time Bomb (I'm looking at you, Devices powerset!).

 

---

 

T9 Detonator

• Reduce recharge time from STUPIDLY LONG 600 seconds (!!!) to only 60 seconds.

Change intended to make Detonator a power actually worth taking and using.

All other power parameters remain unchanged.

 

OPTIONAL (!)

• Change Detonator from affecting only a single Pet to instead affecting all of the caster's Pets within a 10ft radius of the $Target selected Pet when Detonator is used.

Optional change enables multiple Detonators to be triggered, rather than just one(!), depending on locations of Pets at the time that Detonator is cast/triggered.  This then enables either single suicide bombings or mass suicide bombings by Pets at the Mastermind's discretion, simply by controlling the spacing/location of the respective Pets at their ... disposal.

NOW we're talking REAL Mad Bomber Mastermind!

 

[drbuzzard]

I like all these Red, though I did like the idea of tossing tripmines a short distance. Toe bombing an AV is very often not a healthy pass time. I'd say go with both, you can toss the mines a short distance and they activate in 5 seconds. Give them a 10' range for the toss.

[Redlynne]

53 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

Give them a 10' range for the toss.

The inherent problem with giving Trip Mines a range above 0ft is that you then require the Player to specify the location of where the Trip Mine is going to be summoned.  Now, granted ... here on Homecoming that's less of a problem than it would be 8 years ago thanks to the Target Location bind that has been enabled.  But still, it's an extra layer of complication in controlling where the Trip Mine gets "thrown" to, rather than dropping at the caster's feet ... and that distance is going to require an animation of the caster (for the "throw") which in turn ought to require Immobilizing the caster (just like every other attack power).

 

I would prefer to enable use of Trip Mines without requiring an Immobilize while casting so as to enable a strategy of laying Trip Mines while kiting an NPC (or several) who are chasing the caster.  You can't achieve that kind of "explosive trail of breadcrumbs" while on the run if use of Trip Mines requires an animation that will Immobilize the caster for the duration (during which pursuers can close the gap).  Now, granted, doing that successfully may require making more than one lap around a space in order to give enough time for the Trip Mines to arm themselves behind the caster before a $Target can step on an armed Trip Mine ... but that's something you can't do, tactically, if there's an Immobilize to cast factor.

 

[drbuzzard]

Honestly I don't really see how the kiting would work on a 5 second timer anyway. If you're running from them, they will be in either of 2 conditions. A) close, and the mine won't go off or B)losing aggro. It is possible B will grant some window , but 5 seconds is fairly long, and that would be very tricky to work that window. Right now this is a doable tactic in practical terms given how they currently work. You set up your ambush (and can use a swarm of mines), then pull the baddies to it.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by target location bind being new. The teleport bind (lshift+lmouseclick) has worked since live. It was always the only bearable way to use that power. Mind you, I currently use it for caltrops, so this is a complication unless there's another such bind.

[Zepp]

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

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T1 Web Grenade

• Change from Ranged (single target) to be a spherical Target AoE with a 7ft radius (basically melee radius around $Target) with a Max Targets of 5

---

There seem to be two possible paths for this one (and Entangling Arrow). The first is to go the AoE path, maybe buff the -Recharge (or add it in the case of Entangling Arrow). The other path is to take the damage path. I am fine with either path, but the way it is now, it is terrible, especially for Trollers and Corruptors who are forced to waste a slot on these powers.

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

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T2 Caltrops

• Change recharge and duration (both) from 45 seconds to 30 seconds.

---

I understand your thinking here, but I don't think it is necessary. In fact, I don't think the cost benefit analysis of time that would be required to adjust and playtest this makes this change a viable one.

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

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T3 Triage Beacon

• Change from Click static pet summoning power to instead be a Toggle spherical PBAoE power so as to make the effect "mobile" as well as "sticky" to the caster.

---

Since I already proposed this, I obviously agree that it would be helpful. It is a lower priority adjustment than many of the others though. This power could also use reductions in recharge, (more in line with FFG), endurance cost, and cast time.

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

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T4 Acid Mortar

• No changes recommended.

---

This power could use reductions in recharge, endurance cost, and cast time.

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

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T5 Force Field Generator

• (Wishful thinking) ... Grant Force Field Drone a movement speed buff when pet's powers are affecting only self (1 Target) because no allies are within radius range of aura buffs.

 

---

This power could use reductions in endurance cost and cast time. Because of the recharge, having it re-castable at each instance reduces the need for it to follow you from spawn to spawn.

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

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T6 Poison Trap

 

• No changes recommended.

 

---

This power could use reductions in recharge, endurance cost, and cast time.

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

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T7 Seeker Drones

• Change recharge time from 90 seconds to 60 seconds.
• Change duration of summoned Seeker Drones from 240 seconds to 120 seconds.
• Change chance for Disorient into a 100% chance for Knockup.
• Disable Stun enhancement slotting and enable Knockback enhancement slotting.

---

I prefer the stun (although I do not think it should be a "chance to" stun, but an actual stun). I also think that moving it from two to three seeker drones may be reasonable, but may require playtesting to see if current stats could be maintained with said adjustments and the adjustments to recharge and cast time. This power could also use reductions in endurance cost, and cast time.

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

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T8 Trip Mine

• Remove Interrupt Time from power.
• Disable Interrupt Time enhancement slotting.
• Change power Activation time from 5 seconds to 0 seconds(!) following the precedent of Hail of Bullets (Dual Pistols).
• Trip Mines are "summoned" in zero time and manifest at the feet of the caster, but take 5 seconds to arm themselves(!) before they can activate for self-destruction.
• Casting Trip Mines does not Immobilize the caster.  The Trip Mine is simply "dropped" in place at the caster's location and begins to arm itself automatically.
• Crouching animation for Trip Mines deployment is removed.  The summoned Trip Mine however retains its activation animation to indicate when it is ready to attack.

---

Sounds reasonable. This power could also use reductions in endurance cost, and cast time.

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

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T9 Time Bomb

• Change power from STUPIDLY LONG ACTIVATION (9 seconds?!? really?!?!?) to instead be a quick crouch and stand (I'm thinking no more than 3 seconds with a 1 second Interrupt) to summon Time Bomb pet.
• Change power from a Click that detonates on a preset delay timer to instead be a Toggle.
• Toggle power ON to deploy Time Bomb at caster's location.
• Toggle power OFF to detonate Time Bomb ON COMMAND.
• Change recharge from STUPIDLY LONG 360 seconds to instead be only 60 seconds, which of course cannot begin until Toggle OFF which detonates the previous deployment.

---

That seems like a lot of work, but it may be necessary. Time Bomb needs a full-on revamp to make it reasonable. The one thing I would add is that the one person who took Time Bomb as is (I know there is only one of you...) can keep the power as is unless they respec. In other words, replace this power completely to allow legacy users to keep the current "functionality" while everyone else gets a power actually worth taking.

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

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T9 Detonator

• Reduce recharge time from STUPIDLY LONG 600 seconds (!!!) to only 60 seconds.

OPTIONAL (!)

• Change Detonator from affecting only a single Pet to instead affecting all of the caster's Pets within a 10ft radius of the $Target selected Pet when Detonator is used.

---

This power could also use reductions in endurance cost, and cast time. Also, the optional adjustment may be a little OP.

 

[Papaduval]

There are lots of good ideas on this topic, but i'd like to look at the damage levels of the Defender version, as compared to the controller version

 

I've attached screen shots of the tooltip for the Defender at lvl 45 (Primary powerset) and the Controller at lvl 43 (Secondary powerset)

As you can see - the controller version does significantly more damage - and is actually about what i'd expect trip mine to be doing - its fun at this level of damage, and worth setting up trap locations to instant kill mobs when summoned (wormhole, teleport foe, etc)

The defender version however, is significantly sub-par. It absolutely needs some serious buffing. Unless this is Working as intended - if so, its seriously messed up for a primary to do massively less damage than a secondary.  (not sure how much damage the Mastermind trip mine does)

Overall, I enjoy the traps set, though trip mine on defenders needs tweaking, the interrupt times are just horrible and make the power unusable in groups. Time bomb needs totally revamping, or just removing. I never select it anymore, its just too much of a pain to use.

Web grenade also is one to skip - the rest i go for.

 

EDIT: The two trip mines on the controller and defender were 5 slotted with the same OBliteration set (attuned)

Edited June 26, 2020 by Papaduval

[Monos King]

11 hours ago, JayboH said:

1.  Having 300~ regen in a big 40' area everywhere is not a low benefit power - that's like Fast Healing + Integration combined, it's faster than any of the blaster regen sustains, and it does it on top of all the other benefits an entire team has

You'll want to recheck your values; base Triage beacon gives 150% regen and can only reach 300% optimally enhanced. Integration + fast healing is base 225% on all ATs and 400% optimally enhanced due to the unenhanceable portions. The other buffs of the party will simply overshine what triage beacon offers; it's hardly enough to truly work in junction.

 

Creating a triage drone with the same stats as triage beacon should address everyones concerns, as Zepp and others suggested. And it will make the proposed field medic more unique! I assume it will be stackable though not certain if attackable.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Monos King

[Machariel]

The CoH character generator is great, but even with all the sliders turned down it's tough to get a male character to look sufficiently fe-

 

oh, you meant the power set!  my bad.

 

I have not been impressed with Traps.  IMO it only has a few powers that are conventionally 'good' - Caltrops, Acid Mortar, Force Field Generator, and Poison Trap.  And even these, which are the best of Traps, don't strike me as being that good.  Their modifiers aren't significantly different from debuff powers in other sets and they come with significant drawbacks like the setup time and the fact that your powers can be destroyed.  People say that it solos well, but I think that's just a polite way of saying that when you're solo you get to play at the slower (in my opinion, glacial) pace that Traps really works at.  Maybe I just don't like the set. 

 

 

[Redlynne]

34 minutes ago, Machariel said:

People say that it solos well, but I think that's just a polite way of saying that when you're solo you get to play at the slower (in my opinion, glacial) pace that Traps really works at.

Traps is more of a Plant The Flag/pitch a pup tent kind of a powerset.  It's great at static battles and suffers when it needs to stay on the move.

 

In other words ... great for campers.

 

[JayboH]

4 hours ago, Monos King said:

You'll want to recheck your values; base Triage beacon gives 150% regen and can only reach 300% optimally enhanced. Integration + fast healing is base 225% on all ATs and 400% optimally enhanced due to the unenhanceable portions. The other buffs of the party will simply overshine what triage beacon offers; it's hardly enough to truly work in junction.

 

Creating a triage drone with the same stats as triage beacon should address everyones concerns, as Zepp and others suggested. And it will make the proposed field medic more unique! I assume it will be stackable though not certain if attackable.

Oh I was looking at integration's stats wrong, but still, I was right about the 300% regen.  A lot of final builds offer less than that for a character without Triage plus I was right about the blaster sustains.

 

I still dislike the mobile idea; I would prefer having it work more like Lifegiving Spores without the toggle.  Leaning more towards Faraday Cage only maybe a little higher cooldown.

 

EDIT:  would this directly affect Spirit Tree since they are the exact same ability with different graphics?

 

--

Edited June 26, 2020 by JayboH

[Sir Myshkin]

14 hours ago, Redlynne said:

T8 Trip Mine

• Remove Interrupt Time from power.
• Disable Interrupt Time enhancement slotting.
• Change power Activation time from 5 seconds to 0 seconds(!) following the precedent of Hail of Bullets (Dual Pistols).
• Trip Mines are "summoned" in zero time and manifest at the feet of the caster, but take 5 seconds to arm themselves(!) before they can activate for self-destruction.
• Casting Trip Mines does not Immobilize the caster.  The Trip Mine is simply "dropped" in place at the caster's location and begins to arm itself automatically.
• Crouching animation for Trip Mines deployment is removed.  The summoned Trip Mine however retains its activation animation to indicate when it is ready to attack.

I can already say that this won't happen if it keeps the current slotting capabilities it has; specifically Knockback and the ability to slot FF+Rech proc. It'd be far too easy to spam for absolutely no other reason than to proc-check for 100% bump every five seconds. And yes, I would absolutely do it. In fact I did do it, just to see, and as it currently resides in the game I can sit there and spam Trip Mine at 5/s intervals and end up with just a bit over 40 Trip Mines in one pile. Unfortunately (or I guess fortunately for the Devs) the psuedo pet that gets dropped doesn't carry over damage procs so my dreams of decking an AV for 15,000 damage isn't going to happen. C'est la vie.

[Monos King]

27 minutes ago, JayboH said:

A lot of final builds offer less than that for a character without Triage plus I was right about the blaster sustains.

If a support power didn't do more than a non-armor sets minor self buff, it wouldn't even qualify as a support power. The fact that it's even being compared to a blasters sustain is a pretty bad sign for Triage Beacon. 

 

People view healing to be the most ineffective form of mitigation, which while is somewhat debatable, puts regeneration in very poor consideration. It takes high level regen to even be viable on its own, and high level regen is nothing more than moderate-high heal over time dependent on your HP. Luckily, traps focus is not healing at all, and beacon is really just a flavorful addition to a set that was intended to specialize on other things, so it's overlookable regen values aren't much concern. What we need is a way to make it at the very least do said moderate regen in team content, and the mobile drone idea does this well. Giving it Faraday mechanisms would also work (and make sense thematically), but this would come at the cost of a period of +600% regen - which would actually be of benefit. 

 

Essentially it's keeping the capacity for meaningful regeneration and being able to stick with the group (drone) or Sticking with the group but losing out on the 600% regen capability (Faraday or Spore mechanism). If it's the triage model you wish to preserve, maybe applying something similar to Jaunt could work; allowing quick recharge for the Triage up to two times, and then giving it the normal recharge once two Beacons are out. Summoning a 3rd beacon would then reset the other two and start you off from one again.

 

[Frosticus]

I want trip mines like Director 11 gets

 

Other than that, trim any/all animations a bit and give ff gen a rocket booster so it can fly a bit faster and I'd be happy.

[JayboH]

5 hours ago, Monos King said:

If a support power didn't do more than a non-armor sets minor self buff, it wouldn't even qualify as a support power. The fact that it's even being compared to a blasters sustain is a pretty bad sign for Triage Beacon.

 

The only reason it was brought up is because people marveled at the difference the changes in issue 24 made for blasters, AND because you said it was a low benefit power.  It doesn't necessarily come at a cost of 600% regen, as that is assuming a whole lot.  (Yep, it's doable, and still assuming a whole lot.)

[Monos King]

7 minutes ago, JayboH said:

It doesn't necessarily come at a cost of 600% regen, as that is assuming a whole lot.  (Yep, it's doable, and still assuming a whole lot.)

I'm curious what you mean by that. You're saying you have an alternative where Triage can see 600% regen and also have Faraday mechanisms?

[JayboH]

20 minutes ago, Monos King said:

I'm curious what you mean by that. You're saying you have an alternative where Triage can see 600% regen and also have Faraday mechanisms?

No.

 

I'm saying you are assuming a lot - all the changes discussed so far, plus a fundamental change in how the game is balanced (IOs instead of SOs,) and that most players will make these kind of builds to justify 600% as the de facto norm, as if they all know how, will do it, and can afford it, or are even aware of it to justify an intentional rebalance that the developers would agree with keeping that in mind as a goal.

[Monos King]

1 minute ago, JayboH said:

No.

 

I'm saying you are assuming a lot - all the changes discussed so far, plus a fundamental change in how the game is balanced (IOs instead of SOs,) and that most players will make these kind of builds to justify 600% as the de facto norm, as if they all know how, will do it, and can afford it, or are even aware of it to justify an intentional rebalance that the developers would agree with keeping that in mind as a goal.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying quite a bit, as I'm probably one of the biggest "don't base changes off of IOs base on SOs" people around. 

 

I'm a bit confused as to what you're getting at as well, but my main point is that Triage beacon isn't very strong, so maintaining its ability to stack through some of these suggestions is something to be wary of.

[JayboH]

Yeah I was mentioning in my first post to only allow one at a time and to make it work like Faraday Cage for that reason, only with a slightly longer recharge

[tidge]

13 hours ago, Papaduval said:

Web grenade also is one to skip - the rest i go for.

 

Please just swap the T1 and T2 powers. All the discussion about how some players can find corner cases where the mandatory choice of Web Grenade in the secondary is useful can still opt to take it at level 2... and can still take it at level 1 in the primary.

 

I realize it can be fun to spitball new power effects, but I want to be rid of this power NAO.