Glad HC is going to look at Energy Melee

[Myrmidon]

On 7/31/2020 at 5:31 AM, Marshal_General said:

My main character from live should have been a scrapper. Her father was a inv.ss tank and her mother was a en/en blaster.

Or possibly even a Brute. Sometimes the child can eclipse the power of the parents.

[Marshal_General]

8 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

Or possibly even a Brute. Sometimes the child can eclipse the power of the parents.

Right now she is a brute though I haven't been leveling her.

[ninja surprise]

I'd love to make an EM hero if if got fixed. 

[Direct Crit]

On 8/6/2020 at 12:15 PM, Infinitum said:

You are looking at EM completely wrong, and i get it - aoe is the name of the game right?

 

Well EM should be the most powerful ST set, at the expense of aoe - look at it this way...

 

AOE character drops 5 minions in 8 seconds with aoe attacks

 

EM ST character drops 5 minions in 8 seconds with ST attacks.

 

Those are only for instance numbers but similar performances.

 

Thats how EM should feel - Lethal unforgiving ST attacks.

Idealistically sure, realistically any set that focuses on single target only is going to be massively outstripped in damage by other sets that have serviceable AoEs. I'm not asking for EM to start punching at the level of Titan Weapons for AoE output but weakening its AoE is giving it the early CoV Stalker treatment. This game is not *focused* on Single Target. It's nice to have, but if you're going to try and get it to the detriment of having no AoE you can't really shift the balance lever enough to give enough ST to outweigh that. Even if Whirling hands did 48 damage base versus 10 targets, that's 480 damage with no outside damage buffs. ET wishes it could approach that but even if it could your average minion isn't going to eat it to that.

Making EM ST focused relegates it to a niche role that scarcely exists in the game. You also are rarely just fighting 5 minions. Try fighting 10, try fighting 16, try playing in a group, and you'll start to see how Whirling Hands being as weak as it is truly is part of what holds EM back from being a serviceable set. ET, if anything, is absolutely fine for what it is. TF needs a tweak, maybe the early attacks some oomph, but trying to focus more on ST means you negate the set to soloing only.

[SwitchFade]

29 minutes ago, Tactical said:

Idealistically sure, realistically any set that focuses on single target only is going to be massively outstripped in damage by other sets that have serviceable AoEs. I'm not asking for EM to start punching at the level of Titan Weapons for AoE output but weakening its AoE is giving it the early CoV Stalker treatment. This game is not *focused* on Single Target. It's nice to have, but if you're going to try and get it to the detriment of having no AoE you can't really shift the balance lever enough to give enough ST to outweigh that. Even if Whirling hands did 48 damage base versus 10 targets, that's 480 damage with no outside damage buffs. ET wishes it could approach that but even if it could your average minion isn't going to eat it to that.

Making EM ST focused relegates it to a niche role that scarcely exists in the game. You also are rarely just fighting 5 minions. Try fighting 10, try fighting 16, try playing in a group, and you'll start to see how Whirling Hands being as weak as it is truly is part of what holds EM back from being a serviceable set. ET, if anything, is absolutely fine for what it is. TF needs a tweak, maybe the early attacks some oomph, but trying to focus more on ST means you negate the set to soloing only.

Niche role? Heh, the stalker AT would laugh at this.

 

As would DM from most ATs.

 

 

[Infinitum]

35 minutes ago, Tactical said:

but trying to focus more on ST means you negate the set to soloing only.

Yeah, ill reserve judgement on that to when they are finished with it, but I dont agree with this.

 

Taking out an AV or hardened target or even Boss killing has an important team function, and if you are 1 or 2 shotting bosses and chunkin AVs swiftly thats very important to a team.

[marcussmythe]

Some set will be the best at single target.  Some set will be the best at AOE.  And some set will be the worst at each as well.  I think the point Im at with EM is wanting best single target, and accepting worst AOE in exchange.

[Direct Crit]

35 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Yeah, ill reserve judgement on that to when they are finished with it, but I dont agree with this.

 

Taking out an AV or hardened target or even Boss killing has an important team function, and if you are 1 or 2 shotting bosses and chunkin AVs swiftly thats very important to a team.

 

Taking out AVs is a task many ATs/sets can do. I'm not saying EM shouldn't have stellar ST but the game is such an AoE focus that intentionally focusing on ST to the detriment of AoE is legitimately a nerf to the performance of the set. It SHOULD have Stellar ST, but there's no reason for it to have horrible AoE as the trade off as we already have plenty of sets that have fantastic AoE and amazing ST (War Mace, Dual Blades, and Titan Weapons all spring to mind, though TW is an outlier granted). There's no reason EM can't have both a solid, useful AoE and also benefit from its powerful single target attacks being improved to flow better as well. Further EM already has some excellent ST attacks and its biggest problem is that it has 2 large wind-up attacks that are punishing if you miss. ET is fine as is, but TF needs a hard look specifically.

26 minutes ago, marcussmythe said:

Some set will be the best at single target.  Some set will be the best at AOE.  And some set will be the worst at each as well.  I think the point Im at with EM is wanting best single target, and accepting worst AOE in exchange.

Being the best at single target is intentionally nerfing yourself. See what I said above.

[marcussmythe]

So.. -no-set should be best at single target?  They should all be max AOE focus?  Maybe we can streamline down to Rad Melee and Fire Armor and just avoid the ‘nerf’ of playing anything else?

 

There is room in the game for a set with awesome single target, better than anything else, in exchange for mediocre AOE.  If you want yet -another- Rad/Elec/Spines AOE fest, only in glowy pink pom-poms - Rad Melee and the ability to recolor powers is right there, waiting for you.

 

Now, EM is worse at AOE than it needs to be.  Some splash, buff to whirling hands, rewrite Stun until its an AOE Stun and possible Procbomb - Im right there.  But dont throw the single target baby out to get another ‘oh lookie AOE Radius yawn’ set.  We have plenty of those.

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, Tactical said:

Being the best at single target is intentionally nerfing yourself. See what I said above.

You couldnt be more incorrect.  Sorry if that comes across as rude, but its being honest and rude.

[Sovera]

8 hours ago, Tactical said:

Idealistically sure, realistically any set that focuses on single target only is going to be massively outstripped in damage by other sets that have serviceable AoEs. I'm not asking for EM to start punching at the level of Titan Weapons for AoE output but weakening its AoE is giving it the early CoV Stalker treatment. This game is not *focused* on Single Target. It's nice to have, but if you're going to try and get it to the detriment of having no AoE you can't really shift the balance lever enough to give enough ST to outweigh that. Even if Whirling hands did 48 damage base versus 10 targets, that's 480 damage with no outside damage buffs. ET wishes it could approach that but even if it could your average minion isn't going to eat it to that.

Making EM ST focused relegates it to a niche role that scarcely exists in the game. You also are rarely just fighting 5 minions. Try fighting 10, try fighting 16, try playing in a group, and you'll start to see how Whirling Hands being as weak as it is truly is part of what holds EM back from being a serviceable set. ET, if anything, is absolutely fine for what it is. TF needs a tweak, maybe the early attacks some oomph, but trying to focus more on ST means you negate the set to soloing only.

You bring back the 'nightmare' that was leveling my first MA Brute. Imagine going through well, everything, but mostly Synapse. And have to kill... everything... by ST... even the little clocks that spawn after defeating a boss.

[Gobbledigook]

There is no reason EM should be the highest damage single target set. It has stuns, it is a stunning set 😛

 Fire should be number one if any, as it is damage only and can not equip as many procs that make other sets great.

 

 

 

 

 

[ninja surprise]

On 8/9/2020 at 2:00 AM, Sovera said:

You bring back the 'nightmare' that was leveling my first MA Brute. Imagine going through well, everything, but mostly Synapse. And have to kill... everything... by ST... even the little clocks that spawn after defeating a boss.

Exactly why I haven't played much Dark Melee since my main DA/SR Scrapper on Live.  It was a lot of fun but second time around, I ask myself, Do I want to punch everything one at a time again? Shadow Maul helps a bit but...

I have a DM/Ice that's better, I can punch the boss and the minions die in Icicles.

I will avoid ST-focused sets and ATs.

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, ninja surprise said:

Exactly why I haven't played much Dark Melee since my main DA/SR Scrapper on Live.  It was a lot of fun but second time around, I ask myself, Do I want to punch everything one at a time again? Shadow Maul helps a bit but...

I have a DM/Ice that's better, I can punch the boss and the minions die in Icicles.

I will avoid ST-focused sets and ATs.

The new SM is amazeballs though. At least IMO. Good enough to be the only AoE of the character even. I do wish this happened to all cones since as a rule they are so crap no meleer touches them when possible.

[Greentea]

I have Rad/Dark tank, amazing combo. But, I felt sad when I tried Dark melee on different AT, never again.

[Gobbledygook]

On 8/9/2020 at 10:13 AM, Gobbledegook said:

There is no reason EM should be the highest damage single target set. It has stuns, it is a stunning set 😛

 Fire should be number one if any, as it is damage only and can not equip as many procs that make other sets great.

 

 

 

 

 

Everytime I see you post I get confuse.

"I don't remember saying that. Am I getting Alzheimers already?"

Edited August 22, 2020 by Gobbledygook
Me am guud at spelink

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Gobbledygook said:

Everytime I see you post I get confuse.

"I don't remember saying that. Am I getting Alzheimers already?"

I get confused quite often....it's all mumbo jumbo 🤪

Edited August 22, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[Omega9]

Energy Melee just seems a little slow in the execution. That's ok for Energy Transfer, but the rest needs more action/animations going on even if the damage is the same. It needs more snap.

[InvaderStych]

On 8/9/2020 at 7:13 AM, Gobbledegook said:

There is no reason EM should be the highest damage single target set. It has stuns, it is a stunning set 😛

 Fire should be number one if any, as it is damage only and can not equip as many procs that make other sets great.

 

 

On 8/22/2020 at 12:57 AM, Gobbledygook said:

Everytime I see you post I get confuse.

"I don't remember saying that. Am I getting Alzheimers already?"

 

On 8/22/2020 at 2:32 AM, Gobbledegook said:

I get confused quite often....it's all mumbo jumbo 🤪

 

I seriously had to read through this exchange several times before I figured out that two different people were posting. 😄

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Omega9 said:

Energy Melee just seems a little slow in the execution. That's ok for Energy Transfer

 

It's not okay for heavy hitting, set defining, single target attacks to be so consistently wasted on defeated targets.

 

If the power was cancelled in situations where the target is defeated before the hit lands.. I might be okay with it. However that's not how it works.

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Troo
forgot a word

[Marshal_General]

6 hours ago, Troo said:

 

It's not okay for heavy hitting, set defining, single target attacks to be so consistently wasted on defeated targets.

 

If the power was cancelled in situations where the target is defeated before the hit lands.. I might be okay with it. However that's not how it works.

 

Not to mention that other sets have attacks that do the same damage without trying to kill you for using it.

[JnEricsonx]

I remember reading that mega thread back in the day.  Yeah, it was a bit annoying for my EM/WP brute, but I dealt with it.   Hell, the way teams are these days, some of my melee chars are lucky they get a few targets down before the waves of aoes nuke em.

[Colder]

Just an idea here, but what if total focus kept it's extreme damage ST, kept it's ridiculous 3.3 sec animation time, AND added a moderate-high damage aoe that effects all targets surrounding point of impact? 

 

Granted this wouldn't fix the speed of the attacks, but it would make the animation more justified. Even if the ST attack was wasted on it's primary target and it dies before TF hits, the aoe still goes off.

[WindKnight]

Not gonna lie, I'm kinda' bummed out about knowing most people just skip out on ET/TF.  I've been running EM/Invuln and I've been browsing for build suggestions and now I'm just second guessing the entire build altogether now. =(

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, WindKnight said:

Not gonna lie, I'm kinda' bummed out about knowing most people just skip out on ET/TF.  I've been running EM/Invuln and I've been browsing for build suggestions and now I'm just second guessing the entire build altogether now. =(

I'd say that ET and TF are great as long as you're solo... but I'd be lying. Caught myself wanting to rename my em/sr brute to Corpse Blaster. Wait... might have been my FA/EM tank. Two seconds, arcanatime included, should be the cap for ALL animation times.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba