NeRF AoE !!

[Dragon Crush]

5 hours ago, Naraka said:

I think it's funny that posters suggesting self nerfs are here patting each other on the backs (like @Dragon Crush, @Lockpick, @RageusQuitus2, and @Epoch Paradox) like they came up with a new original idea but fail to see the overall perspective:

Good to know my semi-joking suggestion has earned your eternal rage.

Different people have different ideas of fun, my idea was add more options rather than force something one group considers fun onto another group that considers it unfun.

And for just trying something different, there is literally over 1000 AT/primary/secondary combos (granted, some might be rather similar), ignoring all the variations with pools and epics as well. Don't need to change a damned thing to have the chance to try something different if you choose.

[Naraka]

4 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

I don't agree it is true. 

You disagree that the idea of adding self nerfs isn't new? That means you think it's a new ideas not yet implemented?

 

6 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

My position is simple: I am advocating for more player choices and for players to own their own play experience.

 

I certainly haven't patted anyone on the back.  I may agree with some posters some of the time and disagree other times.

 

Are you sure about that? I just had to check but this thread is a few weeks old so maybe you don't remember the post you made in this thread over a month ago...

 

12 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

 

I'm trying to understand your point in regards to this thread and am having a hard time.  No one is stopping you from discussing the meta.  Go ahead and have fun discussing it.  Feel free to discuss the nature of AoE in the game.  No one is stopping you.

 

I also don't advocate for power set re-balancing, so I am not sure what to make of you comment about buffs.  I think power set adjustments should be done very rarely because they impact the current players playing the game.  IMO, balancing should only be done in situations where there is clear and substantial imbalance.  I am pretty much against all the power set adjustments in the new issue because I do not think they are warranted.

 

 

I haven't advocated for keeping the settings at the top.  I have no idea what you are talking about.  I have advocated for the HC team to provide more settings to give more players choice because I think choice and owning your own player experience are critical, especially with a small player base and HC team.  The current settings are fine for me since I generally run on the default settings except when I want to do something outside my norm.

 

That's more a commentary for the general dissenters but I included you since you wanted to comment about how those discussing possible additions seem to be trying to "tear everybody down" for "equity". But again, you weren't the only one shouted out there.

 

Considering the devs are actively putting even more AoE on my toons as we speak, I think it's a worthwhile thing to discuss possible options to quell AoE, not by specifically nerfing powers (or at least not just) but other avenues on top of options we already have.

[Naraka]

Just now, Dragon Crush said:

Good to know my semi-joking suggestion has earned your eternal rage.

Rage? Okay. I did put the @s in the to get people to read and respond to the thread so glad that worked as planned lol

 

2 minutes ago, Dragon Crush said:

Different people have different ideas of fun, my idea was add more options rather than force something one group considers fun onto another group that considers it unfun.

 

You want to talk about forced, go take a look at the changes in beta lol.

 

Blasters aside, I think the overall game is being made more and more easy and simplified which could be nice if it was an option.

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Naraka said:

Blasters aside, I think the overall game is being made more and more easy and simplified which could be nice if it was an option.

And some of us will always consider this a bad thing.

[Lockpick]

9 minutes ago, Naraka said:

You disagree that the idea of adding self nerfs isn't new? That means you think it's a new ideas not yet implemented?

 

Are you sure about that? I just had to check but this thread is a few weeks old so maybe you don't remember the post you made in this thread over a month ago...

I disagree about the "patting each other on the back" comment.  I don't disagree about self nerfs being a new concept.  I didn't advocate for @Dragon Crush suggestion, although it seems like a new suggestion to me as I had never seen it before.  I merely said it wasn't a bad idea.  I don't think it is a bad idea because it provides players more choices and I believe more choices are good.  People like the ability to freeze XP; maybe they would like the choice to reduce their damage.  I would likely never use it, but I don't think it hurts to have more player choices.

 

I have advocated for adding additional levels to the notoriety system (+5/9, etc.), but adding notoriety is adding a challenge and choice to the game.  I suppose it could be considered a self nerf, but I never thought of it that way before.  I have also advocated for adding selections for things like No Incarnates, No Judgement, No Lore, etc. which all provide more choice for players to leverage.

 

18 minutes ago, Naraka said:

That's more a commentary for the general dissenters but I included you since you wanted to comment about how those discussing possible additions seem to be trying to "tear everybody down" for "equity". But again, you weren't the only one shouted out there.

 

Considering the devs are actively putting even more AoE on my toons as we speak, I think it's a worthwhile thing to discuss possible options to quell AoE, not by specifically nerfing powers (or at least not just) but other avenues on top of options we already have.

 

I don't agree with the Devs putting more AoE in the game and am absolutely against wholesale re-balancing (nerfs or buffs).  I think the base game is fine as is and we need to find methods of providing more high end content that provides the challenge that players want.

 

My beef has mainly been with the players that min/max their builds with IO sets and incarnates and then complain the game is to easy.  They then want to nerf existing powers, so they aren't as powerful.  This makes the overall game harder, which impacts the entire community.  I expect many in the community like the game as is where it is somewhat easy, but they can make it harder if they choose to do so.

 

[Epoch Paradox]

Pro new content, from costume stuff, temp powers, powersets, missions, TFs etc... I enjoy the difficulty options. I doubt that people who ask for game-wide nerfs are really utilizing the options to increase difficulty that already exist. I'm in favor of adding more options as some have suggested (+9/+5.....) Options such as "under constant debuff" or "enhancements have no effect" could use some inbetween settings to make them even more useful. The basic premise of the game is that you start off weak and get stronger as your progress while also facing tougher and tougher challenges as you go.

Whether we agree on every point or not, I'm glad you're all here. This game would be no fun at all if it were only single player.

If you are anti adding new content and pro nerfing everyone then I do not understand your position but I'll still say I'm glad you're here.

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Lockpick said:

I disagree about the "patting each other on the back" comment.  

 

That's a turn of phrase.

 

As for aspects of self-nerfing, I tend to already do that as explained above but reading through the thread (it's short enough), there is room for a little bit of everything if the overall mentality is there. Adding more notoriety settings as well as adjusting the mob capabilities upward in the high end (+3 and up).

 

But this thread is focused on AoE and it's effect on balance. Having some kind of inherent protection on mobs if they out level you or needing some sort of strategy to overcome would make it easier to create harder content for the upper echelons of characters. 

[Leogunner]

On 10/29/2020 at 4:01 PM, Troo said:

Looks like GoOD NEwS for AoE fans... more

What's this supposed to mean?  Did they change AoEs?

 

And I thought they were going to look into adding to more of the factions to add difficulty.  They started sprucing up old factions like Hellions, Tsoo, Skulls, etc.  If it were possible to lock new harder mobs by the notoriety (instead of simply by level), maybe it would be both a change in the curve as well as an option.

[Troo]

Some AoEs got some buffs. So AoE continues to be shown love.

 

[Dragon Crush]

15 hours ago, Naraka said:

Rage? Okay. I did put the @s in the to get people to read and respond to the thread so glad that worked as planned lol

Again, I'm joking. In my head I'm picturing you shouting "Curse you Dragon Crush" while shaking your fists at the heavens and doing a perfect Dr. Doofenshmirtz voice because it amuses me, but I highly doubt any part of that is actually happening (although who knows, maybe I've now inspired you to try doing voices for a few minutes)

Was serious that I tend to dislike people trying to force nerfs they consider fun on people who don't think they're fun rather than simply providing more options, but with just about any game with more than 1 player there will be disagreements as to what aspects are fun and what changes to make.

[Haijinx]

On 9/26/2020 at 11:04 AM, Lockpick said:

This is not really a bad idea.  The reality though is the players saying the game is to easy are not interested in mechanics to make it harder at the character level.  There are tons of ways to make content more challenging as it is. 

 

Nope, these players are more interested in tearing everyone down, so there is more equity.  There is something else like that happening in the US currently.  I can't quite think of it right now...

I need at least 5 groan buttons for this post.

 

It gets an 11 on the passive aggressive scale though.

 

Also comparing those who want a more challenging game to Orange Clown President supporters is basically just a modernized Godwin. 

[Doomguide2005]

No thank you, I like my AoEs.  If there's an issue solve it in a manner which does not involving nerfs to AoE powers.

[Dragon Crush]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

I need at least 5 groan buttons for this post.

 

It gets an 11 on the passive aggressive scale though.

 

Also comparing those who want a more challenging game to Orange Clown President supporters is basically just a modernized Godwin. 

I've heard that Mike Godwin (guy who coined Godwin's law) is disappointed that his law gets invoked so often to dismiss valid comparisons and criticisms for the dumpster fire and his administration.

[Troo]

I heard that Godwin thought people who disagreed with his opinions should be locked up in mass.

[Oubliette_Red]

On 9/21/2020 at 4:35 PM, Solarverse said:

I think your head is too large.  😄

Agree.

 

Nerf Troo's head.

 

[Steam_InGen]

Idle hands in the devils workshop topic again ah.... I think you folks need to break this up and Go. Hunt. Kill More Skuls. Nothing good will come from this. Not a single person in game is saying wow Nerf AoEs they are ruining the game. How bout starting a thread to see if someone can fired up that GM tracker we had back on live, so we know roughly when the Giant Monsters will spawn.

 

Besides the Homecoming team seems to be really good at balancing the game. I would not worry in the slightest about power creep either. Sonic Manp leaves a lot to be desired, and that's a set that's suppose to go pew pew boom boom.

[Leogunner]

12 minutes ago, Steam_InGen said:

Idle hands in the devils workshop topic again ah.... I think you folks need to break this up and Go. Hunt. Kill More Skuls. Nothing good will come from this.

Have you even read the thread?

[Steam_InGen]

3 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Have you even read the thread?

Indeed, and wasting time like this isn't healthy. 😛

 

[Leogunner]

4 minutes ago, Steam_InGen said:

Indeed, and wasting time like this isn't healthy. 😛

 

I'm sorry,  I didn't realize you were the forum authority of ways to waste time on the forums.

 

To me, at least, the thread is pretty light hearted save maybe a few people exchanging their 2 cents.

 

That being said, there is a saying about knowing who's in power by who you can't criticize.  I'd wager it probably could also extend to hushing people from talking about problems.  If you can't just let arguments live or die by their argumentative merit on the public stage, smear, belittle and censorship then?

[Steam_InGen]

5 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

I'm sorry,  I didn't realize you were the forum authority of ways to waste time on the forums.

 

To me, at least, the thread is pretty light hearted save maybe a few people exchanging their 2 cents.

 

That being said, there is a saying about knowing who's in power by who you can't criticize.  I'd wager it probably could also extend to hushing people from talking about problems.  If you can't just let arguments live or die by their argumentative merit on the public stage, smear, belittle and censorship then?

Now who isn't being lite-hearted. XD I guess my sarcasm is getting so strong people can't tell I'm not being serious.... The dead give away should have been me on the forums wasting time myself. Irony. 

 

You really think I care what people do with their time? I'm busy playing the game and enjoying having the game back, you can keep your drama stage. 😄

Edited November 1, 2020 by Steam_InGen

[Leogunner]

1 minute ago, Steam_InGen said:

Now who isn't being lite-hearted. XD I guess my sarcasm is getting so strong people can't tell I'm not being serious.... The dead give away should have been be on the forums wasting time myself. Irony. 

Sarcasm can be difficult to read, especially if you don't know the person you're chatting with.

 

And I'd hardly say you've wasted much time on the forums...or maybe this isn't the main account you post from.  I've likely wasted far more time around here but I've always been a big fan of speculative discussions about ideas and suggestions.

[Steam_InGen]

4 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Sarcasm can be difficult to read, especially if you don't know the person you're chatting with.

 

And I'd hardly say you've wasted much time on the forums...or maybe this isn't the main account you post from.  I've likely wasted far more time around here but I've always been a big fan of speculative discussions about ideas and suggestions.

Holy, your right... XD Nah, this is my main account... XD I guess maybe I'll put (I'm kidding) as a p.s. XD

[Leogunner]

33 minutes ago, Steam_InGen said:

Holy, your right... XD Nah, this is my main account... XD I guess maybe I'll put (I'm kidding) as a p.s. XD

No biggie.

 

But with regards to the topic, I was one of the people advocating to increase Tanker AoEs as a kind of melee identity for a long time so I'm not particularly against AoEs or anything.  In the general sense, I feel people have talked about balance, improvements and nerfs all over the forums and I do often hear people mentioning certain "issues" and what could have caused them such as the waning of the usefulness of some support and mez and people will prescribe their theories and solutions.  Ultimately, though, fixing certain things like that are likely not ever going to be addressed and most are aware of it.

 

When I get back home, I certainly will jump in for a bit, maybe roll up some characters on beta and try out some of the new powersets but I've also had my eye on some other games and private servers so who knows.  I don't hold the flaws of games like these against them, I just adapt to them but I do like to talk about said flaws in my spare time.

[Hew]

Sometimes, you just need a good laugh. Frequently, @Troo's threads provide. 😄

[RCU7115]

On 9/21/2020 at 3:41 PM, Solarverse said:

Today? No, most Trollers and Doms lock them down before the mobs can stack on the Tank/Brute.

Very true. I just stopped trying to herd 2 groups together because I turn around and that 1st group is now immobilized and scattered everywhere because they were trying to follow me.