Give Radiation Blast Toxic Damage

[Alchemystic]

Pretty much what it says in the title. I think Radiation Blast could well use an overhaul to bring it in line with Radiation Melee, Radiation Armor, Atomic Manipulation and Radiation Assault.

 

The absence of Toxic Damage from Radiation Blast was always something that confused me, even from the start. Radiation is, after all, highly poisonous. I can understand why the original development team stayed away from it, since sources of Toxic Damage was intended to be 'rare' in the original production of the game, and was not intended to be used reliably. 

However, I think at this point that there should be a Toxic Damage element included in some, not all, of Radiation Blast's powers. I think the ones that aren't present in Radiation Assault would be good candidates, so we don't have to rebalance more than one powerset. So that leaves us with;

 

 - Irradiate

 - Cosmic Burst

 - Neutron Bomb

 - Atomic Blast

Of these four, I would say that Cosmic Burst is the weakest candidate, but could still be included. 

Each of these powers would have to have their damage values modified to compensate for the inclusion of a Toxic Damage element, adjusting them as necessary in order to ensure that they balance out. Toxic is a highly resisted damage type at this point, so I don't think there should be much of a damage tweak in order to ensure that the powerset doesn't overperform. 

 

This kind of change shouldn't affect overall game balance all too much, since way back the only Toxic Damage powerset was Spines, and now we have Radiation Melee, Radiation Armor, Atomic Manipulation, Radiation Assault, Thorny Assault, Dual Pistols, Widow Training, Bane Spider Training, Demon Summoning, Ninja Training, Bio Armor and Experimentation that allow us to very reliably put out Toxic Damage.

At this point, giving Radiation Blast a little Toxic Damage helps bring it in line both thematically and mechanically with all the other new Radiation powersets, and I think would aid the powerset in standing out a little more when compared to the abundance of pure energy based powersets we have already, especially Beam Rifle and Electrical Blast.

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Troo]

If Radiation Assault has it, then Radiation Blast should have it. Seems to be an oversight.

 

My Rad/Dark Corruptor appreciates your pointing this out.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Troo

[Alchemystic]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

If Radiation Assault has it, then Radiation Blast should have it. Seems to be an oversight.

 

 

there is only one Radiation Assault power that has toxic damage (Atom Smasher). But, the set does benefit from the 'Contamination' mechanic similar to Radiation Melee, which allows it to deal reliable bursts of AoE toxic damage.

 

I don't think including the Contamination mechanic would be entirely necessary for Radiation Blast, as the AoE powers I listed above would be receiving Toxic Damage, so there would be little need for it.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Troo]

I agree Cosmic Burst may not be a good fit but even if just in Irradiate.. or the other AoEs.

[FoulVileTerror]

I've long felt that Radiation Blast should do a random amount of Energy or Toxic, but always equal the same grand total when added together.

Alas, I think this request falls deeply under the "Cottage" category.

[Naraka]

Isn't toxic damage far more resisted by mobs than energy? 

[Alchemystic]

1 minute ago, Naraka said:

Isn't toxic damage far more resisted by mobs than energy? 

At this point I believe it is, yep

[Vanden]

IIRC Radiation Blast doesn't do any toxic damage because when the game launched there was no Toxic damage type at all. That's why there's also no Toxic defense, because it was added after the whole defense groundwork was laid out and it was too complicated to add.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

this is a wonderful idea but it would require an overhaul not limited to radiation powers.

 

If radiation causes toxic damage because logically it should then......

Energy blast should cause blindness cause logically getting hit with a beam of energy is blinding

Dark Blast should cause fear, cause living shadows are scary as hell

archery should cause stacking bleeds cause arrows cause huge bloody wounds

assault rifle should have the knockback that energy blast currently has cause rifles have tons of kinetic energy

Beam Rifle should have dual pistols swap ammo (think cryo gun, electric gun, laser beam etc..)

Dual pistols should replace swap ammo with Tracer Rounds (they follow the target, do extra dmg and have a small chance to stun target)

All Electric blast powers should have a small chance to chain to nearby enemies 1 time

Sonic Blast should have the best chance of stun in the game (cause vibrations mess up your inner ear good)

All Water blast attacks should have a chance to choke target, cause like waterboarding and stuff lol

 

Now I'm not advocating these changes, cept the water blast one. (seriously, how did they miss that?)

 

[Alchemystic]

@Saiyajinzoningen

 

I was mostly following the logic behind the other Radiation powersets, not the logic of realism 😅

[Galaxy Brain]

I think this would unfortunately be a net-nerf if it wasn't like, bonus DoT or something 😞

 

Many enemies are actually Toxic Resistant

[FoulVileTerror]

Has someone got the comprehensive list of enemies who resist Toxic?  Obviously all those undead and robotic foes.  Who else?

[Troo]

and a testing we go..

[Alchemystic]

Naturally, a lot of enemies are going to have toxic resistance, so upping the damage values to compensate should counter that.

Not too much, mind you, because we don't want this set to overperform, just to bring it in line with the other offensive Radiation powersets.

 

But, giving these powers a DoT Toxic effect instead of flat Toxic damage like @Galaxy Brain mentioned may prove more beneficial in that regard.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Tyrannical

[FoulVileTerror]

Exactly my thinking, @Tyrannical.  Which is why I wanted a comprehensive list.  Establish just how frequently players are likely to come across those particular enemies, and adjust the value accordingly.

[Galaxy Brain]

12 hours ago, FoulVileTerror said:

Exactly my thinking, @Tyrannical.  Which is why I wanted a comprehensive list.  Establish just how frequently players are likely to come across those particular enemies, and adjust the value accordingly.

Working on that  😉

[oedipus_tex]

Isn't Rad Blast currently considered to be on the weak end of sets?

 

Maybe you could add a damage proc to it that rolls a Defense check versus AoE (since Toxic defense doesn't exist). If you fail to dodge you take Toxic damage. The proc wouldn't be enhancable for Accuracy, so the idea is that debuffing something's Defenses makes it more likely to hit. 

[Naraka]

I don't have too many rad blast characters but when I do play it, I don't want the - def values to change. Irradiate does some ridiculous amount of - def, I think it's like -27% on a Defender unenhanced. It can turn some of those annoying nemesis fights into just regular strolls through a warehouse. I think an equivalent set with high - def is Thorny assault/Plant manipulation which had Thorn Burst that also does a heap of - def. While both those sets also have toxic DoT, they also have some lengthy animations and lethal damage. 

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

Isn't Rad Blast currently considered to be on the weak end of sets?

 

Maybe you could add a damage proc to it that rolls a Defense check versus AoE (since Toxic defense doesn't exist). If you fail to dodge you take Toxic damage. The proc wouldn't be enhancable for Accuracy, so the idea is that debuffing something's Defenses makes it more likely to hit. 

Its complicated. Its like diet-fire in a sense that it realllly lacks safety, but has the potential to do solid work if you eliminate that downside + add in tons of procs

[AerialAssault]

Talking semantics here, Radiation shouldn't really do Toxic damage at all. Most Toxic damage in the game is from a biological or chemical attack, whether that be a poisoned dart, puke, or a concoction of deadly chemicals that D.U.S.T spray from their guns.

 

But I'm talking pure semantics about a game running on comic book logic.

 

If the issue with Radiation Blast is that it doesn't do a lot of damage, I'd suggest as an easy fix to just .. increase it's damage values. Dunno for how much, or for what powers, but that seems like the obvious solution to me.

[Vanden]

49 minutes ago, AerialAssault said:

If the issue with Radiation Blast is that it doesn't do a lot of damage, I'd suggest as an easy fix to just .. increase it's damage values. Dunno for how much, or for what powers, but that seems like the obvious solution to me.

There's nothing wrong with Radiation's damage... at least on paper. All of the powers are right where the formulas say they should be (except Irradiate and Cosmic Burst, which are around 8-9% higher). The issue is that Electron Haze and Neutron Bomb are slooow, and its only sources of safety are the extremely unreliable knockback in EH and hold in Atomic Blast, and the stun in Cosmic Burst.

[Alchemystic]

I guess going off feedback the best direction to go in would be to add a Toxic DoT onto Irradiate, Neutron Bomb and Atomic Blast, without necessarily having to change their energy damage values too much. 

[Myrmidon]

19 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Working on that  😉

Of course you are...

 

Just step out of GB’s way, let him work And you’ll have the answers that you seek.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Myrmidon

[Solarverse]

I have tried playing Rad Blasters a few times, and this conversation has me trying one yet again. However, all the other times I have tried playing them just left me feeling "meh" about the whole thing. I always felt the damage was subpar at best and it was a major reason I wasn't impressed playing it. So I wouldn't be upset if it got a Dot added to the set. I might actually stick one out if it did have a DoT with it.

[Replacement]

16 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

I guess going off feedback the best direction to go in would be to add a Toxic DoT onto Irradiate, Neutron Bomb and Atomic Blast, without necessarily having to change their energy damage values too much. 

This is sort of what I was thinking when reading your OP. IIRC, several of the attacks have a DoT component already, which could be converted to toxic.