Focused Feedback: Teleportation Pool Revamp

[dangeraaron10]

This "Teleport the room to you" concept sounds amazing!

 

+1 for Black Dwarves being able to use the Warshade equivalent of this power.  With these changes as they stand I'd attempt to throw down a Mire, use this power, shapeshift as quickly as I can into Dwarf to throw down a second Mire and then smash.  During that shapeshift time, things could get dicey.  If Dwarf could do the WS room-teleport ability, it'd make Dual-form and Tri-form WS all the more great.  

 

Personally?

 

I think the Dwarf Teleport power should be replaced by a Dwarf equivalent of "Fold Space".  Then allow Dwarves to use the inherent travel powers of their respective AT, Energy Flight for White Dwarves and Shadow Step for Black Dwarves.  If that were the case, you'd probably see a lot more Khelds running Dwarf, if not Tri-form.  Also, if Shadow Step doesn't have the "untouchable" component that Teleport does, that'd be great to add as well to bring it in line.  Though I think it was covered in the patch notes.  

[ScarySai]

3 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

A to-hit buff with cool down for a 1/3rd range teleport seems really kind of not as useful, sorry. With a right button macro, I basically have the 'combat' part of teleport self of moving around usefully in combat. To-hit is supposed to be the offensive equal to constant +Def, but it really isn't. My high level IOd characters have scads of to-hit and accuracy buffs, more than I need to hit +4 mobs. So this is not different but equal. +Def (perhaps at 300% more than CJ and Hover but only 25% of the time) would fit better.

I'm in agreement. I love the mobility offered by CT, but the tohit is actually worthless. I doubt it would even help much in situations where cascading -tohit debuffing is occurring. I don't really know why tohit was chosen for this, nobody is going to say, spam CT before every snipe, or every attack. That's a net DPS loss.

 

Defense and defense set slotting to keep it like the other combat-travel powers would be perfect. Should just do that if we're not going to introduce a unique mechanic of some sort.

[ScarySai]

3 minutes ago, dangeraaron10 said:

+1 for Black Dwarves being able to use the Warshade equivalent of this power.  With these changes as they stand I'd attempt to throw down a Mire, use this power, shapeshift as quickly as I can into Dwarf to throw down a second Mire and then smash.  During that shapeshift time, things could get dicey.  If Dwarf could do the WS room-teleport ability, it'd make Dual-form and Tri-form WS all the more great.  

Why stop at dwarves? Let them use it in nova, as well. Instead of leaping out and flying away to reposition, I can port away and start blasting instantly, with much easier repositions to help leverage my cones better.

[dangeraaron10]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

Why stop at dwarves? Let them use it in nova, as well. Instead of leaping out and flying away to reposition, I can port away and start blasting instantly, with much easier repositions to help leverage my cones better.

 

I'm all for that, too!

 

In general I'm all for opening up more powers for Novas and Dwarves to use.

[Xanatos]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

I don't really know why tohit was chosen for this.

 

The reason given in closed beta was that a lot of power pool options already provide +def, and that the homecoming team wanted people to pick Combat Teleport "based on its own merits" rather than as yet another source for IO slotting or as a means towards defense softcapping.

 

Unfortunately, not giving Combat Teleport defense means it is handicapped against identical builds that take Combat Jumping or Hover. (Meaning the power cannot be judged on its own merits.)

 

Having tested it, I think it giving some sort of temporary recharge boost ala Crosspunch is the way to go. (So that it can compete with Hasten, rather than Combat Jumping or Hover.) Somewhere in the 40-50% region. (And make it mutually exclusive with hasten so you cannot have both on the same build.)

Edited October 24, 2020 by Xanatos

[Blastit]

It's too clumsy to have a pool power be mutually exclusive with a power in a wholly different pool. Does that even currently happen? It'd be better to remove Hasten than twist all design around it.

[ScarySai]

I disagreed with that logic then, and I still disagree with it now. Outside of inserting a new mechanic to the power that's absolutely unique to CT, giving the power +defense is just a change for consistency, not any different than why Hover and CJ have it. It's simple, if people want it for their own merits, they'll take it while having access to the same buff the other two have.

 

Recharge boost or defense, I like both for my build purposes, though I'm a bit disappointed that the more unique ideas were not settled on.

 

Fact of the matter is that defense would be far more valuable than tohit in most situations. I don't see a situation where I spam ct three times before an attack, or weave it before every attack to make use of it. I can see weaving it to maintain recharge or defense, but not tohit.

 

EDIT: Touching hasten would be a non-starter, don't even go there.

Edited October 24, 2020 by ScarySai

[Luminara]

17 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I'm a bit disappointed that the more unique ideas were not settled on.

 

I don't understand why it doesn't have a brief Confuse or Stun.  Teleporting right into melee range of something is bound to be unsettling.  A 3 second status effect would appropriately reflect someone's behavior if it occurred in reality, wouldn't be overpowering, and would open up a few more slotting options (both of those have IO sets with X/Range enhancements, so they could also improve the range of the power while adding utility).

 

I was also expecting Fold Space to Stun.  I still like it, but I think it would be improved by the same option I just proposed for CT, and remain thematically appropriate.

[Hew]

1 hour ago, Keleko said:

 The thing stopping me from getting into the teleport pool is the lack of Defense IO capability.  

You mean, LotG +7.5% rech (plus the, you know, defense), or any of the other procs? To, you know, mule? Because CJ is certainly not giving you your moneys worth for +defense as a value slotting. 

 

Be honest. It isn't for defense, its for the ability to slot VERY high value defense set muling. 100% defense bonus in CJ gets you what, .75% def to all? 

 

[Xanatos]

29 minutes ago, Blastit said:

It's too clumsy to have a pool power be mutually exclusive with a power in a wholly different pool. Does that even currently happen? It'd be better to remove Hasten than twist all design around it.

 

Yeah some of the newer pool powers are mutually exclusive. So there's a precedent for it. And uh, sorry to hear you don't like the game being designed around Hasten. I've got some bad news for you...

 

29 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I disagreed with that logic then, and I still disagree with it now. Outside of inserting a new mechanic to the power that's absolutely unique to CT, giving the power +defense is just a change for consistency, not any different than why Hover and CJ have it. It's simple, if people want it for their own merits, they'll take it while having access to the same buff the other two have.

 

Recharge boost or defense, I like both for my build purposes, though I'm a bit disappointed that the more unique ideas were not settled on.

 

Fact of the matter is that defense would be far more valuable than tohit in most situations. I don't see a situation where I spam ct three times before an attack, or weave it before every attack to make use of it. I can see weaving it to maintain recharge or defense, but not tohit.

 

EDIT: Touching hasten would be a non-starter, don't even go there.

 

Oh yeah I completely agree with you. Was just posting the above because you asked why is has +tohit in the first place. I think it should have a +def component and should be balanced against Combat Jumping/Hover. But if the homecoming team are massively against that, then I'd suggest giving it +rech and have it balanced against Hasten. (With Hasten being left alone, of course.)

 

3 minutes ago, Hew said:

100% defense bonus in CJ gets you what, .75% def to all? 

 

3%

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, Xanatos said:

Yeah some of the newer pool powers are mutually exclusive. So there's a precedent for it. And uh, sorry to hear you don't like the game being designed around Hasten. I've got some bad news for you...

Some of the new pools are mutually exclusive with other pools, but there's no "this one power from this pool is mutually exclusive with this one power from another pool."

Edited October 24, 2020 by Vanden

[Hew]

Just now, Xanatos said:

 

3%

CJ  base is 2.5%. So 100% (70.89 post ED) defensive slotting is getting you 4.27. Or instead, 3.5% def to all with 7.5% rech to all with a single LotG. Or even, 2.5% def to all and +5% res to all, with a single slot. 

 

Again. People are not burning 2 50+5 generic defense IOs for an additional 1.77% def to all. There is far better utility from muling. 

 

[arkieboy72472]

6 hours ago, Killerhawk said:

I quite like the changes to teleport, but I would like to suggest a couple small changes to make it more of a viable alternative to Flight/Leaping.

 

1) Add a minor Defense buff to combat teleport - (Matching the bonus from Combat Jumping/Hover).  I know, I know, - power creep....but hear me out.

Right now, it's a "fun" power to be sure, but I don't see it as a competitive alternative for defense builds.  To have tamp down "softcap everything!" maybe we could have Hover, Combat Jumping, and Combat Teleport changed so that instead of granting a defense buff on their own, they apply a separate buff power to the caster (name suggestions: "On the Move", "Float Like a Butterfly") with a 20 second duration that doesn't stack with itself.  That way, having any one of the toggles would constantly refresh the duration to keep it up, and jumping around in a fight would have more purpose. But you'd get the same defense benefit with either one or all three Combat Movement powers in your build, so there's less reason to feel like you *have* to get leaper, or flight.

 

2)Fold Space - Awesome power, I love it!  Only change I would suggest (and this also applies to Gravity Control/Wormhole - which has the same Mag) is to bump up the mag slightly so that it can also move +4 bosses. 

 

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

 

I am offended....that as a Gravity controller, one of my signature powers is not any more powerful than a damn pool power? I mean it is great to be able to have 2 wormholes on a toon, but at least make the Gravity one better.

[arkieboy72472]

6 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

It might be better in some instances than Wormhole, as the mobs stay right where you put them. (And I'm not one to complain about KB.)

 

 

 As a gravity controller, I have to waste a slot for KB to KD...and this power doesn't? Oh man...>😞

[mrudat]

For fold space, could it be changed so that if targeting a team-mate (or pet?) nearby enemies (to you) get teleported into melee range of them? "Hey go bug <Tank>, not me!"

[Vanden]

1 minute ago, mrudat said:

For fold space, could it be changed so that if targeting a team-mate (or pet?) nearby enemies (to you) get teleported into melee range of them? "Hey go bug <Tank>, not me!"

Sounds delightful for griefing.

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, mrudat said:

For fold space, could it be changed so that if targeting a team-mate (or pet?) nearby enemies (to you) get teleported into melee range of them? "Hey go bug <Tank>, not me!"

 

I suspect that's going to be a no, due to the potential for griefing.  Being on the same team doesn't necessarily equate to being friendly with one another.

[arkieboy72472]

The only interest I have in this all is that I can see a T5 pool power should be good and all, but it should not be as good as a primary power in another set. if it does as wormhole does, then wormhole should have its Mag / range/ accuracy buffed as a result. Either that, or nerf this thing in its current form. I know we should be thankful to be able to get two versions of the same power. Maybe I should just be quiet and abuse the hell out of this on my controller.

 

Obviously the last tier powers in any power pool should be very good and worth taking, but they should not be the same or better than an actual primary or secondary power. I don't want them to make the power unusable, but I don't want gravity controllers to feel less than. Really great and unique powers are maybe 1-2 to a whole powerset and not every powerset has powers like that. I guess that is why I am so defensive of gravity controllers.

 

As for Epic archetypes, THIER version SHOULD be slightly better, not the same. THAT should be the payoff for being an EPIC character. Give them something nice to make their own. No pool power that does anything a primary or secondary power does should ever be as good or better. I knew there are few examples, but still. 

 

I am glad others get to taste the awesomeness of other archetypes, but if they do nothing else, make sure Khelds and Warshades get better versions of whatever is out there. That should ways be the payoff for the effort to become a epic archetype.

Edited October 24, 2020 by arkieboy72472

[Vanden]

6 minutes ago, arkieboy72472 said:

The only interest I have in this all is that I can see a T5 pool power should be good and all, but it should not be as good as a primary power in another set. if it does as wormhole does, then wormhole should have its Mag / range/ accuracy buffed as a result. Either that, or nerf this thing in its current form. I know we should be thankful to be able to get two versions of the same power. Maybe I should just be quiet and abuse the hell out of this on my controller.

It's a lot different from Wormhole; Wormhole is a 20-foot AoE centered on the targeted foe with an 80-foot range, stuns and knocks back the targets, and doesn't require line of sight. Fold Space is a 100-foot AoE centered on you that just teleports targets to your side, with no control aspects, and requires line of sight.

[Hew]

6 minutes ago, arkieboy72472 said:

The only interest I have in this all is that I can see a T5 pool power should be good and all, but it should not be as good as a primary power in another set.

...which takes several additional powers (that you have to find space for) to pick up before you can use it? Wormhole only has a prerequisite of being the right level. Not a bunch of intermediary power picks. What if you don't like the travel portions of TP in general? In that case, you are (in theory) stuck with picking a bunch of powers you DON'T want, for 1 power you DO.

 

That is a very significant cost from multiple points of view. 1. you don't get powers you can really mule. 2. each power you take means you either stick with tp for travel purposes, or you pick even MORE powers for travel/mule. Consider picking SJ, or SS for travel. That puts you at _4_ power picks, only 1 of which you can potentially mule. That is not an insignificant cost in power-slotting/power-picks.

[Greycat]

13 minutes ago, arkieboy72472 said:

The only interest I have in this all is that I can see a T5 pool power should be good and all, but it should not be as good as a primary power in another set. if it does as wormhole does, then wormhole should have its Mag / range/ accuracy buffed as a result. Either that, or nerf this thing in its current form. I know we should be thankful to be able to get two versions of the same power. Maybe I should just be quiet and abuse the hell out of this on my controller.

It is not a wormhole replacement by any means.

 

Wormhole's got longer range and flexible mob placement. This just yoinks whatever's in 100 ft to you.

 

14 minutes ago, arkieboy72472 said:

As for Epic archetypes, THIER version SHOULD be slightly better, not the same. THAT should be the payoff for being an EPIC character.

Epic, as used in terms of Epic ATs, means tied to a story - IE, Epic of Gilgamesh.

[Andreah]

29 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

I suspect that's going to be a no, due to the potential for griefing.  Being on the same team doesn't necessarily equate to being friendly with one another.

That's a possibility, but limiting it to team ... at least it can only be used against a person like that once, and then either the perp would be booted or the victim could quit.

[Luminara]

9 minutes ago, Greycat said:

This just yoinks whatever's in 100 ft to you.

 

I want it to say "Yoink!" when it's used.  I really, honestly do.

[Andreah]

Just now, Luminara said:

 

I want it to say "Yoink!" when it's used.  I really, honestly do.

Wouldn't it be great if most powers had alternative sound effects to customize among, and not just VFX?

[ScarySai]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

I don't understand why it doesn't have a brief Confuse or Stun.  Teleporting right into melee range of something is bound to be unsettling.  A 3 second status effect would appropriately reflect someone's behavior if it occurred in reality, wouldn't be overpowering, and would open up a few more slotting options (both of those have IO sets with X/Range enhancements, so they could also improve the range of the power while adding utility).

 

I was also expecting Fold Space to Stun.  I still like it, but I think it would be improved by the same option I just proposed for CT, and remain thematically appropriate.

I imagine they don't want to step on gravity's toes too much. Still, a slow or chance for knockdown would be nice.

 

Either way, I like the power quite a lot on my shade.