Focused Feedback: Teleportation Pool Revamp

[WindDemon21]

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

You misunderstand. You can't simply increase the TP protection of things that shouldn't be teleported by 1000 - first you need to know every single thing which must not be teleported. No such list exists.

Ah yeah major PITA, what is the tp protection on min/lt/bosses? or maybe a way to flag the purple patch to not affect tp mag? Find some in between I'm sure it exists, again less of an issue for fold space, but it's been a huge bane to wormhole.

[InvaderStych]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

... first you need to know every single thing which must not be teleported. No such list exists.

Obviously that is because ...

 

 

[Koopak]

21 hours ago, Jimmy said:

You misunderstand. You can't simply increase the TP protection of things that shouldn't be teleported by 1000 - first you need to know every single thing which must not be teleported. No such list exists.

I figured this was the case. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Victory Rush's mechanics imply there is a way to detect the rank of a nearby enemy then change effect based on that? Would it be possible, assuming the devs decided to do it, to detect a boss, and arbitrarily apply a higher mag teleport on them? I'm not familiar with the code base, despite having spent the last year with the desire to dig into it, but i would assume there's some way to scan a radius for bosses, list them, and apply and effect to each of them. Presumably that solves the "please don't teleport my lamp post" type issues 😛

If I'm wrong and that is effectively impossible without significant new code, then yeah i don't really see a solution besides the obscured amount of effort i imagine it would be to go through the entire game and assess and mark every object that should be teleportable as such for future protection level maintenance.

The only other option and this is occurring to me late, is there any potential issues with lowering TP protections on bosses? Say do a full scale shift, 0-1 prot for minion, 1-2 prot for lts 2-3 prot for bosses, no level shift, or give negative values so that bosses are below the threshold? Granted that's again kinda a rework for the entire system to solve one issue, but it is a pretty nasty issue. I don't know how difficult it would be.

Now THATS the extent of my ideas without looking through the code base myself.

[DoctorDitko]

Is it possible that TP attempts could stack? Might that be a client-side path?

 

Also, "Teleport All the Things?" +1 in my book!

Edited November 11, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[InvaderStych]

4 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

Also, "Teleport All the Things?" +1 in my book!

I wonder if part of the problem with the unintended Teleport thing would be that we could suddenly teleport "destructable" objectives (Gun/Drug crates, Demon Portals, and so forth) or even regular "Glowie" objectives away from (or towards in the case of target-ables that explode and dmg mobs) the mobs guarding them ....

 

Either way, I'm in the "Lets figure out a way to 'port Bosses" camp, for sure. 😄

 

Edit:  Just read your sig line Doc, "Consensus Reality" is my new phrase of the week.

Edited November 11, 2020 by InvaderStych

[Microcosm]

Late to this party, but I'll add my comments from a Warshade perspective.

 

TP Target is a nice QoL change.

 

Fold Space is awesome; I will echo what someone said early in the thread that this is a primary/secondary power for a WS and is therefore supposed to be in some way superior to the pool version. I nitpick this because Kheldians have gotten the short stick a few time with powers getting copied from various places and not receiving the correct attributes/buffs. As example this happened briefly with Shadow Cloak once which was made into a copy of Stealth from Invisibility pool until corrected to not suppress its defense. I think it should have a slightly lower recharge or boosted range for a WS.

 

Combat Teleport is 'neat' and honestly closer to what TP should be imo. However, I don't see myself ever taking it, especially on a WS build which is tight since I can't also slot a LotG and the small amount of +rech from a useless power outweighs CT on the whole. Unfortunate. Honestly I'd rather this replace the inherent TP though if I'm going to get one by default.

 

TP itself is still not great. And echo what ScarySai keeps saying that the WS version isn't getting the intangibility.

[RageusQuitus2]

On 11/8/2020 at 9:00 PM, ForeverLaxx said:

I always just used Team TP to carry my zombies around if I wanted them right next to me for a mob. As bad as it sounds, if I was in a group and someone complained I was yanking them around, I'd point them to the TP Prompt option to prevent it.

Sure but example my keybinds got all messed up and I didnt notice it.  I then spent a good part of a BAF Tping half the league all around the tennis courts.  Thats alot of people (20-40 players?) to force my travel power choice upon. 
 

/league HELLO ALL PLEASE ENABLE TP PROMPT SO YOU CAN CANCEL EVERYTIME I MOVE!  KTHNXBYE

[ScarySai]

On 11/9/2020 at 3:54 PM, Jimmy said:

You misunderstand. You can't simply increase the TP protection of things that shouldn't be teleported by 1000 - first you need to know every single thing which must not be teleported. No such list exists.

Perhaps, but practically speaking, we can easily rule out every AV, gm, hamidon and trial bosses, no? Besides that, would it even be that big of a deal?

 

If anything were to crop up in testing or even post-launch, it shouldn't be that hard to hotfix, surely? 

[Luminara]

26 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Perhaps, but practically speaking, we can easily rule out every AV, gm, hamidon and trial bosses, no? Besides that, would it even be that big of a deal?

 

Objects we're required to defend, objects we're required to destroy, objects which might cause problems with the /interact command being added... wasn't there a patch years ago which was applied specifically because players could teleport some things they weren't supposed to be able to teleport?  The desks we were supposed to defend from Crey critters? I remember something like this...

 

Allowing any interactive object to be teleported could lead to exploits or griefing, or in some cases, break missions, objectives, AI or cause crashes.

[ScarySai]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Objects we're required to defend, objects we're required to destroy, objects which might cause problems with the /interact command being added... wasn't there a patch years ago which was applied specifically because players could teleport some things they weren't supposed to be able to teleport?  The desks we were supposed to defend from Crey critters? I remember something like this...

 

Allowing any interactive object to be teleported could lead to exploits or griefing, or in some cases, break missions, objectives, AI or cause crashes.

Well, wormhole can't teleport friendly things, isn't that long-ranged and additionally - teleporting things we are to destroy would usually not break the game. So unless there's some extreme examples outside of the scope of that initial post, I think letting just wormhole (not recall/tp foe/fold) get a buff like that would be a safe bet.

[csr]

On 10/24/2020 at 5:39 AM, Jimmy said:

Power Changes

•  Inherent / Umbral Aura > Shadow Recall
  • Now functions the same as Teleport Target, and has a new icon to match (previously this power mirrored Recall Friend)
•  Umbral Blast > Starless Step
  • Now functions the same as Combat Teleport, and has a new icon to match (previously this power mirrored Teleport Foe)
•  Umbral Aura > Shadow Slip
  • Now functions the same as Fold Space, and has a new icon to match (previously this power mirrored Long Range Teleport)

I've just started testing the Warshade changes and didn't take the time to read the whole thread.  So I apologize for repeating things that have already been covered.

• Shadow Step:  Why doesn't this power grant Untouchable as Teleport does?
• Starless Step:  TYPO: The description text reads "Note that Starless is unaffected by Range changes. Note that Starless Step is unaffected by Range changes."
• Black Dwarf Step:  This doesn't get the Untouchable either, though it makes more sense here, since you're in "Tank" form.

[ScarySai]

20 hours ago, Microcosm said:

Late to this party, but I'll add my comments from a Warshade perspective.

 

TP Target is a nice QoL change.

 

Fold Space is awesome; I will echo what someone said early in the thread that this is a primary/secondary power for a WS and is therefore supposed to be in some way superior to the pool version. I nitpick this because Kheldians have gotten the short stick a few time with powers getting copied from various places and not receiving the correct attributes/buffs. As example this happened briefly with Shadow Cloak once which was made into a copy of Stealth from Invisibility pool until corrected to not suppress its defense. I think it should have a slightly lower recharge or boosted range for a WS.

 

Combat Teleport is 'neat' and honestly closer to what TP should be imo. However, I don't see myself ever taking it, especially on a WS build which is tight since I can't also slot a LotG and the small amount of +rech from a useless power outweighs CT on the whole. Unfortunate. Honestly I'd rather this replace the inherent TP though if I'm going to get one by default.

 

TP itself is still not great. And echo what ScarySai keeps saying that the WS version isn't getting the intangibility.

Quoting for emphasis, I was hyped for these things to be added to my new shade build, but now that I got my hands on it, it's just underwhelming.

 

I understand not making our new toys OP, but we didn't even get the new teleport intangibility that could have been situationally useful for a tri-form build. I think people are very enamored with their new toy and aren't being as harsh as they probably should be, combat teleport itself is pretty fun and I like it, but it doesn't offer me anything that hover and CJ can't, while also giving me the benefit of 1: an actually useful defense buff and 2: a LOTG slot and 3: Immob protection and/or making getting melee'd functionally impossible (barring a web nade.)

 

The to-hit on CT is so crap, but that goes double for a class that has soul drain and another mini soul drain.

 

Fold space is the singular saving grace for this, I love it, combat teleport is close to perfect, but needs a better buff and teleport itself is just laughably underwhelming.

Edited November 12, 2020 by ScarySai

[DoctorDitko]

Yeah, I do wish TP per se got a bit of a boost. Is there an in-game reason to not increase its range? Or drop its END cost?

(Or, ideally, both -- and reduce the animation time!)

 

Still, the other boosts are most welcome!

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[Wavicle]

Are people forgetting that reducing the cast time of TP makes it faster at travel? And that it’s already the fastest travel power? By how much should it outpace Super Speed?

[Coyote]

Lots of powers have their effects conditioned on enemy rank. It seems like it should be safe to apply a Mag 3 Teleport on Minions (and other types of smaller mobs like the remnants of Rubbles and Quartzes), 4 on Lts, 5 on Bosses, and nothing to any other target. That feels like it should have a pretty low chance to create some exploit.

[ScarySai]

42 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Are people forgetting that reducing the cast time of TP makes it faster at travel? And that it’s already the fastest travel power? By how much should it outpace Super Speed?

TP is only the fastest in a straight line with zero turns or obstacles, and only when fully slotted. Having no limit to its range gives it the unmatched potential for sure, but super speed and afterburner will demolish it in practically every other scenario, especially indoors.

 

It's also the only travel power that animation locks you, and is capable of bugging out so you teleport in place for some reason at random intervals. It's a chunky mess, hence why the lack of attention is awful.

[csr]

Combat Teleport is listing enhanced Range when slotted with an End/Range IO.  Does "not affected by Range changes" mean something other than unenhanceable?  Perhaps that it will still teleport to the target if the target has moved beyond range?  If so, rewording that may be in order.  I took it to mean no buffs or enhancements.

Edited November 12, 2020 by csr

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, csr said:

Combat Teleport is listing enhanced Range when slotted with an End/Range IO.  Does "not affected by Range changes" mean something other than unenhanceable?  Perhaps that it will still teleport to the target if the target has moved beyond range?  If so, rewording that may be in order.  I took it to mean not buffs or enhancements.

I think it means no buffs, no Boost Range or Clarion. Enhancements clearly work.

[csr]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

I think it means no buffs, no Boost Range or Clarion. Enhancements clearly work.

It should be spelled out one way or the other.  I.e. "Range may be enhanced but not buffed." or whatever it actually is.

[InvaderStych]

6 hours ago, csr said:

Perhaps that it will still teleport to the target if the target has moved beyond range?

 

Last time I was in the Beta, CT was definitely doing a version of this.  You land where they were if they are moving when you've activated it.  I feel like this is OK though as it is, after all, not technically a target power - just one that everyone is targeting via a macro.

Edited November 12, 2020 by InvaderStych

[csr]

26 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Last time I was in the Beta, CT was definitely doing a version of this.  You land where they were if they are moving when you've activated it.  I feel like this is OK though as it is, after all, not technically a target power - just one that everyone is targeting via a macro.

I tested some after posting.  It appears that Wavicle is right.  The odd wording appears to simply mean that it ignores buffs.  It is enhanceable and does choose the location at cast, not at activation.

[Hew]

My experience with telenukes is that they always drop you where something was, not where it will be, when using powexec_loc  target. It can be frustrating when I am speeding through a mish scattering mobs and causing chaos, and then BAM shield charge drops be in a whole lot of empty space. 

 

😐

 

[Jimmy]

Release Candidate 1 - November 13th, 2020

 

Pool Powerset Revamp: Teleportation (Focused Feedback Thread)

Teleportation has been considered one of the least desirable pools for a while (outside of specific uses, like Stone Armor) due to the wide availability of other travel options. In order to make the set more appealing, we've added two new powers with new mechanics. Combat Teleport emulates the feeling of Speed of Sound's Jaunt to quickly traverse the battlefield without the endurance cost burden of an active travel power, whilst Fold Space introduces a new way to play in melee - bring the enemies to you, instead of going to them!

 

To make room for these, Recall Friend and Teleport Foe have been combined into one power and Long Range Teleport has been removed from the set and is now an unlockable Accolade power.

 

Power Changes

•  Teleport Target (Replaces Recall Friend)
  • Now combines the functionality of Recall Friend and Teleport Foe
  • If you previously had Recall Friend, you'll now have Teleport Target
•  Combat Teleport (Replaces Teleport Foe)
  • A quick-casting, short-ranged (100ft) teleport designed to be used in combat
  • The range of this power can be enhanced, but it cannot be buffed or debuffed by set bonuses or other powers
  • This power can be activated up to 3 times in a row before it triggers a cooldown
  • This power grants a small ToHit buff to your next attack
  • If you previously had Teleport Foe, you'll now have Combat Teleport
  • Fixed procs not working in Combat Teleport
•  Teleport
  • This power now grants a 4s untouchable buff
    • If you attack while this buff is active, both the Untouchable buff and the Hover buff will be cancelled
    • If you have been in combat in the last 10 seconds, phase will not be triggered
    • In PvP, using teleport 3 times within a 30 second window will trigger No Phase
•  Team Teleport
  • Endurance cost reduced from 20 to 16
•  Fold Space (Replaces Long Range Teleport)
  • This power will teleport foes from the nearby area into melee range
    • Line of sight is required
    • 100ft range, 16 targets max, prioritizes closer targets
  • Long Range Teleport has been removed from the Teleportation pool and is now an Accolade power
    • If you previously had Long Range Teleport, you'll now have Fold Space
    • See the Long Range Teleporter section below for more information

Warshades

•  Inherent / Umbral Aura > Shadow Recall
  • Now functions the same as Teleport Target, and has a new icon to match (previously this power mirrored Recall Friend)
•  Umbral Blast > Starless Step
  • Now functions the same as Combat Teleport, and has a new icon to match (previously this power mirrored Teleport Foe)
•  Umbral Aura > Shadow Slip
  • Now functions the same as Fold Space, and has a new icon to match (previously this power mirrored Long Range Teleport)
• Fixed the Shadow Step and Shadow Recall icons being inverted 

 

Other Changes

• Reduce the occurence of the red ring cursor when choosing a teleport destination
  • It is now possible to teleport to some locations even if the camera loses line of sight to the player

Command: /powexec_location

• Several improvements have been made to /powexec_location to make it more reliable when used with teleportation powers
  • Directional and terrain-following mode are more robust and less likely to stop short of the full distance
  • Target mode no longer requires line of sight to the target, so long as the target is in a location that is a valid teleport destination
  • Target mode no longer tries to occupy the same space as the target - instead it selects a location as close as possible to the target without being pushed away
• Fixed being able to teleport inside geometry with this command
• Now much less likely to fizzle with teleport powers

[naraganeun]

Still wishing for higher magnitudes on TP powers... is this a game balance issue or just game engine issue?

[Wavicle]

Just now, naraganeun said:

Still wishing for higher magnitudes on TP powers... is this a game balance issue or just game engine issue?

TP protection is used to prevent us TPing things we shouldn’t be able to, like Mission Objectives for example. The fix isn’t as easy as we’d like, apparently.