Focused Feedback: Other Powers Changes

[Jimmy]

This is a Focused Feedback Thread

• Please note that Focused Feedback threads are heavily moderated to ensure they remain on topic.
  • Any off-topic posts in these threads will be removed without warning.
  • The thread will be locked when no more feedback is required, but you are more than welcome to continue the discussion in a new thread.
• The most up-to-date version of the changes will be listed in the first post.
• The changes in each build will be posted as replies.
  • Most changes from the previous beta build are listed in green.
    • Green text will become white text in the next set of patch notes.
  • Any changes or fixes that are only relevant to the beta builds (ie: fixes / tweaks to new features) are listed in blue.
    • Blue text will be deleted in the next set of patch notes as it is only relevant to highlight changes between beta builds, not a changes from live.
  • Known issues are listed in purple.

 

---

 

Other Powers Changes

Dark Melee

•  Shadow Maul
  • Target cap reduced from 10 to 5 (16 to 10 for Tankers)
•  Touch of Fear
  • Now a melee targeted AoE with a 10 target cap (16 for Tankers)
  • Now deals negative energy damage over time
  • Fear duration reduced by roughly 50%
  • Cast time increased from 1.17s to 1.97s
  • Only the main target will be affected by the Fear and ToHit debuff
  • Now accepts Targeted AoE Damage sets
•  Taunt (Tanker / Brute)
  • Now has the correct icon border
• AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Energy Assault

•  Whirling Hands
  • No longer yields double damage with Energy Focus active
  • Instead it will instantly recharge the power
•  Energy Focus
  • Previously Energy Focus could only be acquired once every 15 seconds, regardless of if you used it or not - you can now regain it again immediately after it has been spent
  • Cleaned up some timing issues
  • Now shows up on the buff bar
• AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Kinetics

• All versions of the following powers have been converted from old pseudopet mechanics to new execute power mechanics
  •  Transfusion
  •  Siphon Power
  •  Transference
  •  Fulcrum Shift
• Player powers should notice no difference beyond faster application
• Some NPC powers may become weaker or stronger depending on their rank
• AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Movement Buffs

• This change has been reverted
• This will be looked at again in the future, potentially Page 2, as we look into proliferating Ninjitsu
• The following travel powers will suppress Primary/Secondary equivalent power travel buffs:
  •  Pool > Leaping > Combat Jumping
  •  Pool > Leaping > Super Jump
  •  Pool > Force of Will > Mighty Leap
  •  Pool > Speed > Super Speed
  •  Pool > Experimentation > Speed of Sound
  •  Prestige Travel > Ninja Run
  •  Prestige Travel > Beast Run
  •  Prestige Travel > Athletic Run
• Primary/Secondary powers impacted by this:
  •  Scrapper Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Sentinel Defence > Ninjitsu > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Blaster Support > Ninja Training > Shinobi-Iri
  •  Blaster Support > Tactical Arrow > Gymnastics

Taunt Aura Slotting

The following powers now accept Taunt Enhancement Sets:

Spoiler

• Bio Armor
  •  Evolving Armor
  •  Genetic Contamination (Tanker/Brute only)
• Dark Armor
  •  Death Shroud (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Cloak of Fear (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Oppressive Gloom (Tanker/Brute only)
• Electric Armor
  •  Lightning Field (Tanker/Brute only)
• Energy Aura
  •  Entropic Aura
• Fiery Aura
  •  Blazing Aura (Tanker/Brute only)
• Ice Armor
  •  Chilling Embrace (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Icicles (Tanker/Brute only)
• Invulnerability
  •  Invincibility
• Radiation Armor
  •  Beta Decay (Tanker/Brute only)
• Regeneration
  •  Integration (Brute only)
• Shield Defense
  •  Against All Odds
• Stone Armor
  •  Mud Pots (Tanker/Brute only)
• Super Reflexes
  •  Evasion (Tanker/Brute only)
• Willpower
  •  Rise to the Challenge

Accolades

• All active combat Accolade powers now recharge in 10 minutes (down from 25 minutes), but are no longer affected by global recharge buffs - this affects the following powers:
  •  Crey CBX-9 Pistol /  Stolen Immobilizer Ray
  •  Eye of the Magus /  Demonic Aura
  •  Geas of the Kind Ones /  Force of Nature
  •  Vanguard Medal /  Megalomaniac
  •  Elusive Mind
• Accolade powers with different alignment versions (eg: Vanguard Medal / Megalomaniac) can now be activated regardless of alignment, but will force the other version of the power into cooldown

P2W Powers

•  Summon Workbench
  • Can now be summoned while flying (but must still target the ground)
•  Jump Pack /  Steam Jump
  • These powers were intended to have a 30s lockout timer, but it never worked properly (on initial release, they had a 5 minute cooldown)
    • They sometimes were locked out permanently until you zoned, and sometimes could be used back-to-back
    • They also detoggled Intangibility powers on expiration, and were locked out for 2 minutes by NoPhase, despite having nothing to do with intangibility
  • The not-working lockout timer has been removed, and instead these powers now share a 30 second cooldown (which fixes all the above issues) using the new shared cooldown code tech developed for the accolades above
•  Renewal of Light (P2W) /  Return to Battle
  • These powers are no longer mutually exclusive - you can own both at the same time
  • Instead they share a cooldown
  • The Winter Event version of Renewal of Light has been renamed to Light of Renewal to prevent confusion with the P2W version

[Jimmy]

Build 1 - October 24th, 2020

Spoiler

Other Powers Changes

Martial Arts

•  Eagle's Claw
  • This power now hits in a small cone
  • Now takes PBAoE sets instead of Melee Damage sets
    • Any currently slotted enhancement will retain, but can not be re-slotted after a respec
  • These changes only apply to the melee set version of the power (Tanker, Brute, Stalker and Scrapper)
• AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Dark Melee

•  Shadow Maul
  • Target cap reduced from 10 to 5 (16 to 10 for Tankers)
•  Touch of Fear
  • Now a melee targeted AoE with a 10 target cap (16 for Tankers)
  • Now deals negative energy damage over time
  • Fear duration reduced by roughly 50%
  • Cast time increased from 1.17s to 1.97s
  • Only the main target will be affected by the Fear and ToHit debuff
  • Now accepts Targeted AoE Damage sets
•  Taunt (Tanker / Brute)
  • Now has the correct icon border
• AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Energy Assault

•  Whirling Hands
  • No longer yields double damage with Energy Focus active
  • Instead it will instantly recharge the power
•  Energy Focus
  • Previously Energy Focus could only be acquired once every 15 seconds, regardless of if you used it or not - you can now regain it again immediately after it has been spent
  • Cleaned up some timing issues
  • Now shows up on the buff bar
• AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Kinetics

• All versions of the following powers have been converted from old pseudopet mechanics to new execute power mechanics
  •  Transfusion
  •  Siphon Power
  •  Transference
  •  Fulcrum Shift
• Player powers should notice no difference beyond faster application
• Some NPC powers may become weaker or stronger depending on their rank
• AE versions of these powers have been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

Taunt Aura Slotting

The following powers now accept Taunt Enhancement Sets:

Spoiler

• Bio Armor
  •  Evolving Armor
  •  Genetic Contamination (Tanker/Brute only)
• Dark Armor
  •  Death Shroud (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Cloak of Fear (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Oppressive Gloom (Tanker/Brute only)
• Electric Armor
  •  Lightning Field (Tanker/Brute only)
• Energy Aura
  •  Entropic Aura
• Fiery Aura
  •  Blazing Aura (Tanker/Brute only)
• Ice Armor
  •  Chilling Embrace (Tanker/Brute only)
  •  Icicles (Tanker/Brute only)
• Invulnerability
  •  Invincibility
• Radiation Armor
  •  Beta Decay (Tanker/Brute only)
• Regeneration
  •  Integration (Brute only)
• Shield Defense
  •  Against All Odds
• Stone Armor
  •  Mud Pots (Tanker/Brute only)
• Super Reflexes
  •  Evasion (Tanker/Brute only)
• Willpower
  •  Rise to the Challenge

Accolades

•  Summon Workbench
  • Can now be summoned while flying (but must still target the ground)
• All active combat Accolade powers now recharge in 10 minutes (down from 25 minutes), but are no longer affected by global recharge buffs - this affects the following powers:
  •  Crey CBX-9 Pistol /  Stolen Immobilizer Ray
  •  Eye of the Magus /  Demonic Aura
  •  Geas of the Kind Ones /  Force of Nature
  •  Vanguard Medal /  Megalomaniac
  •  Elusive Mind

 

[TC]

I typically agree with most of the team's balance changes and in the case of the newest patch, I'm happy for almost every change. Especially the Energy Melee changes, they take the spirit of the current set and add power that feels good to use (seemingly).

 

But... Eagle's Claw as a cone...? The power doesn't really match up like this thematically or aesthetically and changing the IO set type is going to wreak Havoc with MA builds. Eagle's Claw is the go-to power to slot Hecatomb for MA and Dragon's Tail is the go-to for Armageddon. It's not a huge deal, I just don't really get why the change is being made. I agree that MA could use a bit of a buff and I also agree that giving that buff to Eagle's Claw is a good move, as for a T9 power it does lack some oomf compared to others. But making it a cone? MA is not one of those melee sets that lacks good AoE, Dragon's Tail is a nice PBAoE power. Quick cast, good damage. I really just don't see why Eagle's Claw was made a cone. If I'm being completely honest it seems a bit uninspired, it's just making the set feel more like Katana or NB.

 

 

EDIT: Thank you for listening 🙂

Edited October 31, 2020 by TC

[skoryy]

2 minutes ago, TC said:

But... Eagle's Claw as a cone...?

My counterargument, as someone with an MA tank, is that having a second limited AoE in the set is really nice to have.  More hits, more aggro!

 

Maybe split so that only tanks and brutes get the AoE version?

[CrudeVileTerror]

Yeah, I think that @skoryy's suggestion makes sense.

Give Scrappers and Stalkers something different in that department (like guaranteed bonus damage on Stun'd targets, and make Cobra Strike 100% Stun chance again).

[Vanden]

4 minutes ago, TC said:

MA is not one of those melee sets that lacks good AoE

MA is absolutely one of those sets, Dragon’s Tail is a completely average AoE, and it’s the only one in the set (and Stalkers don’t get it).

 

Plus, I think EC is still balanced as a single-target attack, though I’ll have to run the numbers when I get out of work to verify that.

[TC]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

MA is absolutely one of those sets, Dragon’s Tail is a completely average AoE, and it’s the only one in the set (and Stalkers don’t get it).

 

Plus, I think EC is still balanced as a single-target attack, though I’ll have to run the numbers when I get out of work to verify that.

Yeah but Dragon's Tail, while IO'd, has a 3.5s CD. Does ~300-350 damage, 1.5s cast time (kinda short), and knocks down enemies. This is a solid power (Scrapper variant numbers). And even if it's "average", that's still more than a good amount of other melee sets. Is the goal from the HC team to balance the entire game around AoE and making sure every Powerset has great AoE? Dragon's Tail is more than enough AoE for the set, in my opinion, and I really hope HC doesn't move in the direction of making sure every set has A tier AoE. Powerset homogenization is not fun. I personally believe MA is not supposed to be, and never was supposed to be, an AoE oriented set and giving Eagle's Claw a cone effect like Golden Dragonfly is not the move to buff it.

 

EDIT: Also, my main point seems to be getting ignored.

 

"The power doesn't really match up like this thematically or aesthetically"

 

Why would Eagle's Claw ever be a cone...? Obviously this is a super hero game and anything is possible but I'd like to have SOME base in realism. To have cone damage make realistic sense on Eagle's Claw, the power would need animation work, so as to not just have mysterious damage numbers pop up behind the main target. The current animation very much so looks like a single target attack. Any sort of AoE attached to the current animation might as well mean my character is using the Force in addition to Martial Arts. To me, it would be like making Nova a single target attack. It would just be plain silly.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by TC

[RPW]

Well, as far as Im concerned, I'm pretty happy with everything overall, but I do NOT like the change to Dark Melee's Shadow Maul. It is one of those powers we DM scarppers and Brutes must take, and its essential tbecause we have very little that's not a single target melee attack. There ar many of us who don't use Touch of Fear, and we shouldn't be encouraged to respec our builds to take an additional power to supplement Shadow Maul because its become weaker and less useful.

 

I have no problem seeing a modifaction to ToF, that sounds like a good idea. The SM change is a horrible idea. There was no problem with SM before. SM Is what allows us DM scrappers to perform our roles at all those low levels. If anything, you should increase the number of targets for scrappers and reduce the number for tanks. Scrappers are there to clear the mobs, but cant take the same dmg as a tank. Tankers are there to absorb damage, with the trade off as they do less dmg themselves. Tankers should never have better versions of offensive powers than scrappers using the same sets. 

 

Anyway, this is only one person's opinion. I've been playing CoH since it was originally in Beta and never missed a week to play until it shut down, and I'm just happy its here to play again. 

[Hew]

13 minutes ago, RPW said:

There ar many of us who don't use Touch of Fear, and we shouldn't be encouraged to respec our builds to take an additional power to supplement Shadow Maul because its become weaker and less useful.

Have you slotted and tried to use the new ToF? Maybe actually toss a character onto the beta server and try it out before you cast aspersions?

 

Also, you do realize that _target caps_ for tankers have been higher than any other melee for god knows how long right? It is how they manage agro!

[Replacement]

21 minutes ago, RPW said:

Well, as far as Im concerned, I'm pretty happy with everything overall, but I do NOT like the change to Dark Melee's Shadow Maul. It is one of those powers we DM scarppers and Brutes must take, and its essential tbecause we have very little that's not a single target melee attack. There ar many of us who don't use Touch of Fear, and we shouldn't be encouraged to respec our builds to take an additional power to supplement Shadow Maul because its become weaker and less useful.

 

I have no problem seeing a modifaction to ToF, that sounds like a good idea. The SM change is a horrible idea. There was no problem with SM before. SM Is what allows us DM scrappers to perform our roles at all those low levels. If anything, you should increase the number of targets for scrappers and reduce the number for tanks. Scrappers are there to clear the mobs, but cant take the same dmg as a tank. Tankers are there to absorb damage, with the trade off as they do less dmg themselves. Tankers should never have better versions of offensive powers than scrappers using the same sets. 

 

Anyway, this is only one person's opinion. I've been playing CoH since it was originally in Beta and never missed a week to play until it shut down, and I'm just happy its here to play again. 

I suggest keeping strongly in mind that current shadow maul was overbuffed as a patch job to hold folks over until a more comprehensive take on the set could arrive.

[RPW]

24 minutes ago, Hew said:

Have you slotted and tried to use the new ToF? Maybe actually toss a character onto the beta server and try it out before you cast aspersions?

 

Also, you do realize that _target caps_ for tankers have been higher than any other melee for god knows how long right? It is how they manage agro!

And have you ever played a DM Scrapper? Unless you have and worked your DM scrapper though all the content on your way to 50, then you can't criticize the opinion of someone who has done it repeatedly. I'm entitled to my opinion without being attacked, thank you very much. ToF might be stellar now, but it doesn't change my opinon. I shouldn't have to waste TWO power slots when one has always worked fine for 50 levels. There was no problem with DM before. It wasn't being abused in any way. There were no DM exploits.

 

And just because changes have been made to tanker caps previously, so what? It doesn't change the validity of my point nor change my opinion.

 

EDIT: FYI-Tankers can manage aggro better than any other class without increasing the number of targets they can hit. Their threat level is higher. Their taunt is more effective.

Edited October 24, 2020 by RPW

[RPW]

2 minutes ago, Replacement said:

I suggest keeping strongly in mind that current shadow maul was overbuffed as a patch job to hold folks over until a more comprehensive take on the set could arrive.

Perhaps there was some buffs involved. I'm not seeing any significant increases other than what I've squeezed out with IO set bonuses. If it was a damge nerf to a over-powered power, it would be completely understandable, like with TW. My issue was only that we're losing effectiveness on a bread and butter power and being encouraged to take a second power to offset it.  

[Vanden]

Touch of Fear in Dark Melee now takes Targeted AoE IOs. However, since this is a melee attack, it should take PBAoE IOs. 

[Hew]

1 hour ago, RPW said:

And have you ever played a DM Scrapper? Unless you have and worked your DM scrapper though all the content on your way to 50, then you can't criticize the opinion of someone who has done it repeatedly.

 

Yes, as a matter of fact. Entirely on mission content, the vast bulk of which has been my own mish content.

 

edit: To clarify, you did indeed roll multiple comments into one statements (tanks better than scrappers? without testing? without examining the historical provenance that drives increased target caps for tanks?)  then took immediate offense to the suggestion to, you know, test? Which is what the beta test is for? Life is full of change. Nobody attacked your opinions. The comment was to, you know, test. Validation becomes possible with experience. Again, which points to casting aspersions without basis.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Hew

[Dahkness]

.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Hops

[Vanden]

1 minute ago, Hops said:

Can I know the reasoning for removal of global recharge for these powers? I feels like a nerf or and a change of pace for how things move along during gameplay

It makes the accolades perform equally well on all builds. And unless you have over 150% global recharge, it’s a buff.

[Dahkness]

.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Hops

[Galaxy Brain]

3 minutes ago, Hops said:

I guess. 90/95% of people build for perma hasten so this makes me sad. 

Gonna need to see a receipt for that

[Dahkness]

.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Hops

[ScarySai]

5 hours ago, Jimmy said:

•  Whirling Hands
  • No longer yields double damage with Energy Focus active
  • Instead it will instantly recharge the power
•  

I really don't like this one, but overall the changes are nice.

 

One beefy power press is more valuable than an instantly recharging, middling power.

Edited October 24, 2020 by ScarySai

[Galaxy Brain]

3 minutes ago, Hops said:

Okay. Let me invite you to my TF's / Teams. And lets count together on how many people are running hasten. @hops please join me. Not sure how i can give you a receipt? Do you want screen shots?  

What I mean by this is do we actually have a measure on how many people in total  are running perma-hasten builds. Catering just to the top players is rarely a good call for the overall population 

[Dahkness]

.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Hops

[macskull]

1 minute ago, Hops said:

I'm pretty sure accolades are an end game achievement. Used for endgame play. And maybe you should should pay attention to your fellow heroes more. Maybe just click on info and see how many people don't have hasten in there builds. 

You said "90/95% of people build for permahasten," not "90/95% of people have Hasten." Those are two different things. Besides, actual numbers released earlier this year showed only about 80% of level 50 characters had Hasten in the first place. And unless an accolade is gated behind content that can only be accessed at level 50, it's not an "end game achievement."

[Dahkness]

.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Hops

[rciccolini]

 

Running around Peregrine on my MA scrapper.

 

The Eagle's Claw change seems to be working. It's a narrower cone that is hard to line up, rather than something like Slice that's wider. I am getting 2-3 during play where I don't have a taunt aura to really pack in enemies, so that's what I would expect even on crowded maps. Note that a tanker, brute, or scrapper with a taunt aura and enemies that are melee could see 4-5.

 

It's a nice quality of life change. Other than my unfounded concern that it will be rebalanced as an AoE someday it's fine. I don't know that it will take MA into something that feels like it has sufficient AoE, especially since you have to wait until level 32 for it, but I could get 2-3 enemies reliably and that is a good improvement to the set.