Focused Feedback: Other Powers Changes

[Mezmera]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Added this missing fix.

Oh and also can we get the Stalker version of TF that can crit and build an extra reserve stack?  Asking for a friend... ☺️

[SableShrike]

I’ll put my two cents in that Storm Kick (already great) or Crane Kick (could use the love) are better visuals for a cone attack.  Crane has a strike-through look to it, and spinning heel kicks like Storm can be used to hit multiple targets.

 

Eagle looks too much like a single heel strike to one target, personally.

 

I’d make Crane the cone and just give Eagle’s damage buff a bit longer duration (to get three attacks off after it, not just Thunder and Storm).

 

MA would be “fixed” then, to me.

Edited October 27, 2020 by SableShrike
Werdz

[Saikochoro]

My two cents on the dark melee changes. My dark melee/shield defense is my favorite scrapper by far. While I do appreciate the work to add in more AoE, I personally am not a fan of the changes. 
 

I will likely still skip ToF and just keep shadow maul for a couple reasons:

1. I don’t like that ToF uses targeted AoE enhancements. It’s screws with my builds set bonuses and make it so it doesnt work anymore. That alone will prevent me from taking the power. That is okay though. It won’t work for everyone. 
2. I will echo that I don’t like the spammy nature of it. I would much rather have a higher cooldown more powerful AoE. 
 

If ToF were changed to use PBAoE enhancements I would be much more likely to use it in a final build. If the recharge were increased and damage increased to match I would probably most definitely take it. 
 

Anyway, just my thoughts on it. I am totally fine with the changes because at worst it won’t change my current playstyle/build. Albeit the slight nerf to shadow maul will affect me a bit, but I’m okay with that if the majority of people like the ToF change. I still appreciate all the hard work that went into this update!

Edited October 27, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Gobbledigook]

ToF needs to debuff the enemies to-hit also and not just the main target. It is what the set is about. Other sets get soft control AoE's in knockdowns and stuns etc. So leave ToF with it's AoE to-hit debuff on all mobs hit.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[gamingglen]

What I want Eagle's Claw to do is have a much better hit chance. 95% is not good enough.  Yeah yeah, RNG hates everything. It seems to hate Eagle's Claw the most, though.

 

It's the most annoying power when it misses, even more than a Snipe or Assassin's Strike. When I hear that "thud" my blood pressure skyrockets, I yell obscenities at everything especially devs, and I have to count to 10 to calm down if I have the time but generally I have to fight those enemies now really mad at me (I'm surprised they aren't laughing instead 😉).  Grrrr.  10.. 9.. 8.. 7..

 

6...

 

Maybe this can't be done to the game engine, but borrow from D&D5 the advantage option: roll 2 dice and take the best result (yeah, I know D&D5 didn't originate it, but did make it more popular or known).  Maybe this could be a unique proc, I'll stick it in EC every time. 

 

5..

 

Another option: increase it giving a crit chance to later attacks, EVEN IF IT MISSES.  

 

4.. 3.. 2.. 1.. 0.. -1 .... ah, I feel better now.  Thanks for listening. 

[Ruby Rocket]

Touch of Fear sounds fun... It should get the mobs heavy into retreat in no time flat.  Its hard to complain about the new Shadow Maul target cap. Dark Melee Scrappers can't keep a mob together once you hit Soul Drain anyway; you're lucky to have 2 hang around in a +4x8 mob.  DM/DA Scrappers will scatter a mob if you look at it funny, so having more AoEs is pretty useless when just hitting buildup will send them to the hills.  Death Shroud sends them running in 2 ticks, Cloak of Fear doesn't slow their retreat, Oppressive Gloom sends them stumbling to the four corners of the map, Dark Armor heal busts up mobs before the animation completes, Shadow Maul makes runners in a 120 deg arc now, Soul Drain gets them dancing and if you're quick you can follow up with Dark Consumption before you're back to chasing them.  I always figured the single target attacks were by design, since you can't keep anything close enough to utilize an AoE more than once.  The old Touch of Fear would give you a quick pause to square up with one enemy for 2 quick jabs before you had to chase them back down.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Ruby Rocket

[Rejolt]

EDIT: Messed up what numbers were from where on Energy Assault for doms. The Info tab on live is showing Whirling Hands on live as a 403 dmg attack/163 DPA vs. 67 and  28 in Beta. Still going to test the same build on live and beta.

 

UPDATE:  It's just a known text bug on live and the attack does the same damage on Live and Beta. Carry on(tm).

 

Main reason to test (if a red name can comment) is why we have instant recharge vs double dmg for Whirling. Focus being able to instantly recharge now would mean a non-stop TF/WH/WH combo which I guess is equally weird and awesome but more work than it should be.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Rejolt

[hejtmane]

On 10/26/2020 at 5:23 AM, summers said:

I'm not who you quoted but my disappointment is just how spammy the attack is. It's on a lightning fast recharge and I will get very bored watching the same animation over and over again.

 

As s soon as you are hitting two enemies you are getting value out of it so... you'll do that a lot.

I was working on testing it unslotted on my level 50 it looks like the base damage will be close to soul drain in total but over 5 tics Shadow maul is still the better power but the question is what do I drop to fit it in to the build (I still have some more testing to perform) this was just what I could squeeze in this morning

Edited October 27, 2020 by hejtmane

[Cheli]

On 10/24/2020 at 11:08 AM, TC said:

I typically agree with most of the team's balance changes and in the case of the newest patch, I'm happy for almost every change. Especially the Energy Melee changes, they take the spirit of the current set and add power that feels good to use (seemingly).

 

But... Eagle's Claw as a cone...? The power doesn't really match up like this thematically or aesthetically and changing the IO set type is going to wreak Havoc with MA builds. Eagle's Claw is the go-to power to slot Hecatomb for MA and Dragon's Tail is the go-to for Armageddon. It's not a huge deal, I just don't really get why the change is being made. I agree that MA could use a bit of a buff and I also agree that giving that buff to Eagle's Claw is a good move, as for a T9 power it does lack some oomf compared to others. But making it a cone? MA is not one of those melee sets that lacks good AoE, Dragon's Tail is a nice PBAoE power. Quick cast, good damage. I really just don't see why Eagle's Claw was made a cone. If I'm being completely honest it seems a bit uninspired, it's just making the set feel more like Katana or NB.

Concurring 100% with this. Makes no sense, bungs up slotting for pre-existing MA characters, and if you want to buff MA this isn't how to do it.

[Hew]

Something to keep in mind. Instant recharge on a power that leverages procs heavily is MORE damage than double damage, since procs arent part of the damage piece that gets doubled, just raw +damage in the power. Food for thought. 🙂

[Aracknight]

Storm Kick or Crippling Axe Kick would be better for cone or arc attacks.  Both are sweeping attacks vs Eagles Claw which is clearly a single target big hitter with either animation.

 

Right thought, wrong power.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Aracknight

[Maxzero]

2 hours ago, Ruby Rocket said:

Touch of Fear sounds fun... It should get the mobs heavy into retreat in no time flat.  Its hard to complain about the new Shadow Maul target cap. Dark Melee Scrappers can't keep a mob together once you hit Soul Drain anyway; you're lucky to have 2 hang around in a +4x8 mob.  DM/DA Scrappers will scatter a mob if you look at it funny, so having more AoEs is pretty useless when just hitting buildup will send them to the hills.  Death Shroud sends them running in 2 ticks, Cloak of Fear doesn't slow their retreat, Oppressive Gloom sends them stumbling to the four corners of the map, Dark Armor heal busts up mobs before the animation completes, Shadow Maul makes runners in a 120 deg arc now, Soul Drain gets them dancing and if you're quick you can follow up with Dark Consumption before you're back to chasing them.  I always figured the single target attacks were by design, since you can't keep anything close enough to utilize an AoE more than once.  The old Touch of Fear would give you a quick pause to square up with one enemy for 2 quick jabs before you had to chase them back down.

 

You joke but for some reason Dark Melee makes enemies run for hills. Its like some bad Benny Hill episode. They should replace Shadow Mauls sfx with Yakety Sax.

[ScarySai]

On one hand, I get concerns with making ToF too strong, with soul drain and such in mind, it's very easy to make dark melee go from "godlike single target, okay AoE" to the most powerful thing in the game.

 

On the other hand, scrappers can already take fireball or ball lightning if they really want to.

 

Targeted AoE slotting lets me cram another -res proc and ragnarok into tight builds, so that's not really something I consider a problem at all. It does feel pretty weak, though.

[Cheli]

47 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

Storm Kick or Crippling Axe Kick would be better for cone or arc attacks.  Both are sweeping attacks vs Eagles Claw which is clearly a single target big hitter with either animation.

 

Right thought, wrong power.

Martial Assault already has a power that functions like Storm Kick with a cone effect, so yeah. Not sure why they added it to Eagle's Claw of all powers. 

 

I also don't think the solution is to just give every melee standardized "one PBAOE one cone" as a way of making them perform equally. If one set's better at single-target than at AOE, or vice-versa, I'm not sure why that's considered a design flaw needing fixed. 

[Gobbledigook]

38 minutes ago, Cheli said:

Martial Assault already has a power that functions like Storm Kick with a cone effect, so yeah. Not sure why they added it to Eagle's Claw of all powers. 

 

I also don't think the solution is to just give every melee standardized "one PBAOE one cone" as a way of making them perform equally. If one set's better at single-target than at AOE, or vice-versa, I'm not sure why that's considered a design flaw needing fixed. 

It is easier to build for extra AoE using the right armour and epic pool choices.

 

It is not easy to build extra single target damage.

[Ruby Rocket]

3 hours ago, Maxzero said:

 

You joke but for some reason Dark Melee makes enemies run for hills. Its like some bad Benny Hill episode. They should replace Shadow Mauls sfx with Yakety Sax.

I jest.  However, DM/DA Scrapper is my main and yup... "Fear of God".  I just watch everything run away as fast as I can target them.  You have to set up "closest target" shortcut and hit it after every attack.  They run like a scalded dogs.  I slotted additional speed into my build and leave sprint on 24/7 just to keep up.  Midnight Grasp won't even slow them down... they move like greased lightning.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Ruby Rocket

[TC]

2 hours ago, Cheli said:

Martial Assault already has a power that functions like Storm Kick with a cone effect, so yeah. Not sure why they added it to Eagle's Claw of all powers. 

 

I also don't think the solution is to just give every melee standardized "one PBAOE one cone" as a way of making them perform equally. If one set's better at single-target than at AOE, or vice-versa, I'm not sure why that's considered a design flaw needing fixed. 

I agree, but I think the ship has sailed on this idea in the dev's minds. They said in their update a month or so ago, they want to add new, harder content (awesome! amazing!) but the game needs balanced first; namely, many specs need brought up to speed and a couple need tuned down (also amazing news!). In the current version of CoH, you can obviously play whatever you want, but on teams, AoE characters outperform everything else because every character with AoE can stack AoE with other characters and yeah... we've all seen +4x8 PI Radios with even just a 50% IO'd team. It's an absolute slaugher. Hell, one AoE focused IO'd powerhouse can carry the whole thing! So their idea to balance some sets is to bring them up to par in the AoE department.

 

This is where I disagree. Yes, I am very excited we are getting quite a large number of balance changes. And with the exception of the AoE being thrown around for lots of sets, I like the changes; they're creative and good for the most part. The Energy Melee changes are great. However, I think when we get into this "harder content" they're talking about, I like the idea I've seen get tossed around where the in-game team size is limited to 4 or 5 (only for the new, challenging content). Content based around this team size would give both single target and AoE sets value while changes, buffs, or nerfs for these sets can be focused on their unique playstyle and making them feel better instead of dishing out extra AoE to all of them because every team will want to go as an 8 man team and stack AoE.

 

But yeah, I think this ship has sailed. Admittedly though, while I don't like going the "give every set good AoE" direction much either, for the most part, I'm very happy with how they're moving in this direction. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by TC

[hejtmane]

6 hours ago, Ruby Rocket said:

Touch of Fear sounds fun... It should get the mobs heavy into retreat in no time flat.  Its hard to complain about the new Shadow Maul target cap. Dark Melee Scrappers can't keep a mob together once you hit Soul Drain anyway; you're lucky to have 2 hang around in a +4x8 mob.  DM/DA Scrappers will scatter a mob if you look at it funny, so having more AoEs is pretty useless when just hitting buildup will send them to the hills.  Death Shroud sends them running in 2 ticks, Cloak of Fear doesn't slow their retreat, Oppressive Gloom sends them stumbling to the four corners of the map, Dark Armor heal busts up mobs before the animation completes, Shadow Maul makes runners in a 120 deg arc now, Soul Drain gets them dancing and if you're quick you can follow up with Dark Consumption before you're back to chasing them.  I always figured the single target attacks were by design, since you can't keep anything close enough to utilize an AoE more than once.  The old Touch of Fear would give you a quick pause to square up with one enemy for 2 quick jabs before you had to chase them back down.

Why I can no longer play non taunt aura scrappers everything is either shield, rad, EA, WP, Bio or Invul

[Ruby Rocket]

1 hour ago, hejtmane said:

Why I can no longer play non taunt aura scrappers everything is either shield, rad, EA, WP, Bio or Invul

Yeah...  but they can't turn you into a giant black smudge on the screen. 😜   oooo.... new alt, Fire/Dark Alias "Hot Smudge Sunday"!

[Lines]

I did a search to see if this has been mentioned yet, but didn't see it

 

The timing of Total Focus while hovering seems to return to the slow animation regularly. The attack will hit and proc EF when the character is at the apex of the jump and the animation time is >2.52s suggested in the power info window. I've played around but can't figure out why this is only happening sometimes (I was suspecting that it had something to do with which animation I was using it from, but couldn't reliably get it to slow down/speed up).

 

The speed of the attack seemed consistent on the ground.

Spoiler

 

[garvisdol73]

I feel like 5 is too few targets for Shadow Maul now.  Could you please consider maybe 8, 7, or even 6?  I know that's not much different from 5 but it'd still be better.

 

As of now I don't currently plan to respec into Touch of Fear because I can't really fit it into my build.

[Hew]

Ok, so. I just ran a dm tank. Without lots of global rech (basically just 7.5% + hasten whenever it is up), I found that ToF cycles nicely with SM, and some filler. Moreover, I found that the combination of ToF and SM was very effective in chewing up scenery.

 

I have something of an unusual build, but I have a feeling it will become less so. Currently I have 3 slots in FoldSpace. Frankly, I need more slots for a very hungry teleport pool (CT, TeleTarget, Foldspace).

 

It is VERY challenging to slot. If my build was converted to a brute, it would be outright silly. 

 

I tried a mix of using melee + agiltiy + ageless, as well as running no incarnates at all. Bottom line, you don't need recharge to make DM work, and actually, I think too much recharge is actually counterproductive. 87.5 recharge (hasten up) was the perfect amount, allowing me to maximize use of SM, ToF, and fillers as appropriate (electric fences, or single target).

 

Two thumbs WAY up.

 

 

[BrandX]

23 hours ago, Cheli said:

Martial Assault already has a power that functions like Storm Kick with a cone effect, so yeah. Not sure why they added it to Eagle's Claw of all powers. 

 

I also don't think the solution is to just give every melee standardized "one PBAOE one cone" as a way of making them perform equally. If one set's better at single-target than at AOE, or vice-versa, I'm not sure why that's considered a design flaw needing fixed. 

I agree.  If people don't like a set's single target focus, they can pick a different set.

[Bill Z Bubba]

On 10/24/2020 at 2:42 PM, Vanden said:

I'd certainly appreciate the change for consistency.

I agree with this point.

[Carnifax]

 Whirling Hands

• No longer yields double damage with Energy Focus active
• Instead it will instantly recharge the power

 

Domi Version : This is a horrible change. Changes Whirling Hands completely to a chunky "Splatter" to "Well I guess I'm going to watch this stupid animation forever". 

 

I'd much prefer if the Release mechanism stayed the same but the bonus damage was tamped down to 60-75% if it's overpowered currently. Having the option to cast it twice is pretty meaningless. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Carnifax