Focused Feedback: PvP Updates

[America's Angel]

Incredible stuff @Faultline& @Jimmy. Thank you both for taking time to chat to the PVP community. It's been a long time since we had anything like this.  I'm sorry for killing you both on Brainstorm. It's how we PVPers show we like someone.

 

Figured these names might work:

•   Veteran
•   Demonic Mind (PVPers always call this power "demonic". As it's being merged with Elusive Mind, this name would reflect it.)
•   Geas (PVPers always call this Geas. Won't name conflict.)
•   Mezalomaniac
•   Crey Pistol (PVPers already call this Crey Pistol. Won't name conflict.)
•   Heroic Charge (PVPers always refer to this as the "hero alignment power". This name would keep that, without confusing new players that it's hero only.)
•   Villainous Charge (Same thing as Heroic Charge.)

 

*Edit*

See Waypoint's post below for an updated list.

Edited October 31, 2020 by America's Angel

[Spineropolis]

The free accolades are amazing. If we could get PvP only free alpha incarnate that would be great as well.

[Glacier Peak]

23 minutes ago, barrier said:

I want to note that these changes will make it a lot less likely that people like me will show up to your badge hunt in RV and three-shot your PVE build with a corruptor. Incarnates are that stupid.

I'll have you know that my Ice/Cold Corruptor build is T4'd and built for PvP! 😄 (but I have no doubt you would indeed beat me as you described). Debuffs just ain't what they used to be!

[barrier]

20 minutes ago, Parisstar said:

If you have accolades already will you still be able to use them in zone and you just wouldn't be able to buy the ones from vender? Seems a bit weird I spent ages accolading 200 toons to not be able to use the ones I earned(would be a bummer to me.) Everything else looks great though! ❤️

I probably have close to 75 or so fully accoladed and mostly IO'd pvp builds over multiple accounts.

 

I am 100 percent fine with this change.

 

My work was in the service of PVPing, not some sort of completionist endeavor.

[Ms Deadly]

2 minutes ago, barrier said:

I probably have close to 75 or so fully accoladed and mostly IO'd pvp builds over multiple accounts.

 

I am 100 percent fine with this change.

 

My work was in the service of PVPing, not some sort of completionist endeavor.

That's okay also, but not everyone is the same! I just like to earn things and be able to use the things I've earned. Why I was saying should be a choice to use one or the other. This game is so easy to do anything maybe not a bad thing to put a little effort into getting accolades maybe. ❤️ 

[Troo]

Note: Siren's Call mini-map got rotated?

 

Question: Is the PvP multizone access temporary? (actually kinda cool if it's here to stay)

 

Question: Is the PvP accolade change for all PVP zones?

• I do feel this could punish some folks who went to the trouble to try and earn them (especially for or by specific levels).

 

Question: Why not just give all PvPers all the accolades?

 

Question: The current pvp in-zone temp powers / buffs are going away?

 

Question: What's the impact on the mini games in PvP zones?

 

 

Comment: This seems to push PvP further from the PvE game rather than closer.

 

 

[Waypoint]

I liked most of America's Angel, so just wanted to change a few based on stuff I heard in arena.
 

•   Veteran
•   Demonic / Magus (I hear both of these said equally. Otherwise, go with AA's version)
•   Geas
•   Mezalomaniac
•   Crey Pistol
•   Justice (During countdown timer for arena matches & for gathers, typically one person at the 5 second mark will say "pop justice!")
•   Rampage (Frenzy, rampage. Same thing.)

Edited October 31, 2020 by Waypoint

[ROBOKiTTY]

When I mentioned hunting the NPC AVs/heroes, doing so for badging purposes was implied.

 

Ever since the devs designed PvP zones with PvE badges and PvE content, there has long been unnecessary tension between PvPers and those who want access to the content but are uninterested in PvP.

 

When i13 came with the PvP overhaul, it also made PvE in PvP zones harder, because NPCs still followed their own rules while PCs now followed PvP rules and were, e.g., subject to diminishing returns across the board and a loss of mez protection.

 

And sure, people could still take on the AVs/heroes. It just took more people and effort. It wasn't the end of the world, but nor were PvE badgers intended targets of the changes.

 

Bottom line is, non-PvPers -- who are the majority of the players -- go into PvP zones really only for very specific non-PvP stuff, usually on builds unsuited for PvP, hence especially needing all the help they can get from temps and incarnate powers. Nerfing them and then shrugging it off as acceptable collateral damage just creates more unnecessary frustration. So why not spin up separate PvE instances for those zones?

[Troo]

6 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Arena vendors now sell the following PvP-only fakkolades (fake knockoff accolades) for 10,000 influence each:

•   PvP HitPoints Endurance
  • Combined the four +HP / +End accolades
•  PvP Res/Def All
  • Combines Eye of the Magic / Demonic Aura and Elusive Mind
•  PvP Recharge Accurazy
  • Copy of Geas of the Kind Ones / Force of Nature
•  PvP Mez Boost
  • Copy of Vanguard Medal / Megalomaniac
•  PvP Freeze Ray
  • Copy of Crey CBX-9 Pistol / Stolen Immobilizer Ray
•  PvP Damage ToHit
  • Copy of Call to Justice, the Hero alignment power
•  PvP Recharge Special
  • Copy of Frenzy, the Villain alignment power

Question: Why not add a Non-PVP temp also?

[EmperorSteele]

52 minutes ago, Troo said:

Question: Why not add a Non-PVP temp also?

 

Those are temp versions of existing accolades. You want those powers in normal play? Earn 'em.

The PvP/Arena versions are probably for the sake of parity and equity within that specific segment of gameplay.

 

1 hour ago, ROBOKiTTY said:

Bottom line is, non-PvPers -- who are the majority of the players -- go into PvP zones really only for very specific non-PvP stuff, usually on builds unsuited for PvP, hence especially needing all the help they can get from temps and incarnate powers. Nerfing them and then shrugging it off as acceptable collateral damage just creates more unnecessary frustration. So why not spin up separate PvE instances for those zones?

I gotta disagree. The entire POINT of those badges is "I worked my butt off and risked getting pwned by other players". Badges are something that are earned, some easier or harder than others, and some are supposed to be frustrating. Removing the only real barrier to collecting them makes the entire endeavor meaningless. We're not owed these things for free (well, minimal effort, anyway) on a silver platter. Because let's face it, while the AVs put up a decent fight, they aren't super challenging.

Having PvE versions of PvP zones also just makes it "safe" to get otherwise overpowered abilities. The only thing that makes getting a Shivan, LB Heavy or a Nuke interesting is the idea that an enemy player might be hiding around a corner, or invisibly tailing you. And let's face it, unless you're in RV, your chances of seeing an enemy player in a PvP zone are usually pretty dang low anyway.

THAT being said, I wonder if there's a way to tweak the anti-incarnate mechanic so that those powers initially work in RV, but are disabled once you engage or are engaged by enemy players? It would at least let people more easily hunt the AVs, at least until the inevitable happens. These changes were made to make PvPers lives easier in their preferred environment, but there's no harm in letting non-PvPers use the powers when Enemy Players aren't around.
 

[Phoenix']

3 hours ago, Spineropolis said:

The free accolades are amazing. If we could get PvP only free alpha incarnate that would be great as well.

Dont be lazy dear just farm your toon to vet lvl 9 and you have your t4 alpha 😉

[macskull]

19 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

THAT being said, I wonder if there's a way to tweak the anti-incarnate mechanic so that those powers initially work in RV, but are disabled once you engage or are engaged by enemy players? It would at least let people more easily hunt the AVs, at least until the inevitable happens. These changes were made to make PvPers lives easier in their preferred environment, but there's no harm in letting non-PvPers use the powers when Enemy Players aren't around.

As far as I'm aware, that sort of thing is usually tied into combat status which doesn't differentiate between players and non-players. There's a PvP timer, but that's an all-or-nothing setting. That does seem like more work on the code side of things.

[Faultline]

4 hours ago, Monos King said:

Disagree with this one. Every PvP zone literally gives temporary powers, it's part of the appeal and none of them actually ruin the experience; only incarnates did that. I'm supposed to go and get Warburg nukes and then not even be able to use them in zone?

It is not all temporary powers, only those not allowed in the arena. Things like Warburg nukes still work.

 

The main target for disabling powers are self buff autos/toggles that you have to do nothing to maintain and greatly increase hp/end/def/res/regen/recovery. Most clickies should still be there.

[EmperorSteele]

8 minutes ago, macskull said:

As far as I'm aware, that sort of thing is usually tied into combat status which doesn't differentiate between players and non-players. There's a PvP timer, but that's an all-or-nothing setting. That does seem like more work on the code side of things.

 

Yeah, I just figured it'd be a decent compromise, IF it was workable. If not, oh well.

[Prime Elway]

These are really incredible changes, absolutely floored by the easing of the accolade grind as well as the new arena map.

Here are my suggestions for the accolade power names:

•   H-Boosted
•   Beefed
•   Kill Potential
•   Unjauntable
•   The Naturalizer
  
  (I agree with M3Z's picks for Call to War and Special Technique for the alignment powers)

Edited October 31, 2020 by @Charlie

[bandofhorses]

3 minutes ago, @Charlie said:

These are really incredible changes, absolutely floored by the easing of the accolade grind as well as the new arena map.

Here are my suggestions for the accolade power names:

•   H-Boosted
•   Beefed
•   Kill Potential
•   Unjauntable
•   The Naturalizer

Amazingly great suggestions!

[Liberty]

3 minutes ago, @Charlie said:

These are really incredible changes, absolutely floored by the easing of the accolade grind as well as the new arena map.

Here are my suggestions for the accolade power names:

•   H-Boosted
•   Beefed
•   Kill Potential
•   Unjauntable
•   The Naturalizer

Great Great Suggestions!

 

[Hot Dogger]

Big fan of this Charlie guy's names.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Hot Dogger

[EmperorSteele]

Did... did Charlie just use alt accounts to make his suggestions seem more popular? Three accounts with minimal post history posting all at the same time seems a little weird!

[Jimmy]

You are allowed to multibox with 3 accounts 👍

[FireWire1]

17 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

Did... did Charlie just use alt accounts to make his suggestions seem more popular? Three accounts with minimal post history posting all at the same time seems a little weird!

yes, yes i did

[bandofhorses]

19 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

Did... did Charlie just use alt accounts to make his suggestions seem more popular? Three accounts with minimal post history posting all at the same time seems a little weird!

How dare you... I've defeated GM Jimmy. I am the most prolific PvPer in the game. I just really like Charlie's idea and honestly he should probably have an Emmy.

[Taboo]

Looks like the Arena folks are taking over the PvP zones.

 

Some of the changes seem ok. New zone cool.. oh, it's an old zone.

 

This is a BAD SET OF CHANGES for MOST players though I can see how a few would eagerly advocate for and try to drown out any other opinions.

[Prime Elway]

32 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

Did... did Charlie just use alt accounts to make his suggestions seem more popular? Three accounts with minimal post history posting all at the same time seems a little weird!

Honestly, I just have a bit of a cult following.

[Ms Deadly]

23 minutes ago, Taboo said:

Looks like the Arena folks are taking over the PvP zones.

 

Some of the changes seem ok. New zone cool.. oh, it's an old zone.

 

This is a BAD SET OF CHANGES for MOST players though I can see how a few would eagerly advocate for and try to drown out any other opinions.

Ja I agree to an extent, some changes are good like the no incarnates except alpha only. Some feel a bit weird though like the no temps and acco changes. Zoners are usually more casual players, so idk if forced arena rules is best way to approach it or else why aren't they in the arena now? Though Most zoners don't seem to use forums either so I don't think will hear their opinion till changes go live. I just don't want to take away from their experience to better fit the arena people who never zone any who. I personally think getting rid of the base macro and incarnates would be best for now. Maybe add more changes in the future. 😛