Weekly Discussion 77: Designing an Epic Archetype for Praetorian Earth

[Andreah]

I concur with the loyalist/resistance themes. They make the most sense, lore-wise. Put a special departing mission on each to go to Earth-1-1 to perform spying, etc; and return back to Praetoria for one final story arc after they have learned everything primal earth has to teach them (i.e., level 50.)

[The_Warpact]

1 hour ago, Tyrannical said:

I've pondered a few ideas for this before, but ultimately I decided to use the content over in my other thread (Eco-Friendly Powerset Recycling) to create the Force, Pain, Power, Artillery and Arsenal powersets from various NPC factions seen throughout the Praetorian content.

With those in mind, I figured one of the easiest ways to go would be to create Loyalist and Resistance themed EATs and making use of the various NPC only powers they have access to.

RESISTANCE COMMANDO

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Resistance Commando - Starting Path

The Resistance Commando is the generic Resistance fighter, using a makeshift rifle jury-rigged to pierce PPD armor, as well as exo-armor to help them toughen up. They begin as part of the Resistance alignment, and report to whichever faction they choose (Wardens and Crusaders). They are locked to Resistance alignment until they make it to Primal Earth, or if they go 'undercover', unlocking their second costume slot either way.

Your starting appearance will be that of a normal Resistance member (as above), but with as many bits of the armor as you please. Faces and hairstyles can be anything you want just like VEATs. Color choices are entirely up to you, so you could even go gold or purple if you wanted that Runesoldier aesthetic! 

Primary - Power Rifle

The Power Rifle powerset uses the unique rifle based attacks utilised by many of the Resistance NPCs, a simple lethal weapon that has multiple fire modes.

 

Example Powers:

Burst

Heavy Burst

Single Shot

Covering Fire

 

Secondary - Survival

The Survival powerset is a self buff powerset that displays the Resistance's tenacity and endurance. Powers in this powerset are a mixture of willpower-style resistance buffs as well as a few minor gadgets to help them in the field such as the power-punching exo skeleton each of them possess.

 

Example Powers:

Survivor

Exo Rig

Power Punch

Resistance Heavy - Tanky Path

The Resistance Heavy is inspired by two different NPC types; The 'Heavy Hands' and the "Heavy Barrel", combining their skills into a formidable tanky style of play.

 

Primary - Heavy Cannon

The Heavy Cannon is a weapon used by the Heavy Barrel NPCs, and focuses on delivering heavy shots that can decimate multiple foes. There aren't many attacks, but that can change with a few more additions.

 

Example Powers:

Snap Shot

HE Shot

AP Round

 

Secondary - Exo Rig

The Exo Rig powerset brings more melee and protection to the player, using all the 'Heavy Hands' melee attacks, as well as greater protective gear.

 

Example Powers:

Heavy Rig

Bone Smasher

 

 

Resistance Officer - Stealthy Path

The Resistance Officer trades raw power for subtlety and style. This path rewards being more discreet and tactical.

 

Primary - Auto Pistols

Using the unique dual pistols that many Resistance officers and named NPCs have, we can create a good powerset that has a little more flair than the typical resistance rifle.

 

Example Powers:

Snap Shots

Fusillade

Aimed Shot

Overcharged Shots

 

Secondary - Gadgets

Some resistance members even use gadgets similar to the Devices powerset, so including some of those into this archetype path seems very fitting.

 

Example Powers:

Cloaking Field

Targeting Drone

Trip Mine

 

LOYALIST TROOPER

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Loyalist Trooper - Starting Path

Loyalists Troopers are the archetypical soldier of the Loyalist forces, whether they are PPD, TEST or IDF. They begin as part of the loyalist alignment, and report to whichever faction they choose (Responsibility and Power). They are locked to Loyalist alignment until they make it to Primal Earth, or if they go 'undercover', unlocking their second costume slot either way.

 

Your standard appearance will be an IDF ranger as pictured above, but with access to some of the unique armor choices as seen on the Heavy Troopers and Commanders too, so you have a little more variety to play with. Color options, face and hair styles are all up to you!

 

Primary - Power Gauntlets

The primary powerset of this archetype is the power gauntlets. Firing off blasts of force energy and delivering powerful punches.

 

Example Powers:

Force Bolts

Force Burst

Force Brawl

Force Maul

 

Secondary - Force Shields

The secondary powerset for Loyalist Troopers is their force shields. A little more sturdy than that of the generic NPCs, they have good defensive capabilities and utility.

 

Example Powers:

Kinetic Shield

Force Armor

 

Loyalist Heavy Trooper - Damage Path

You know those guys with the huge missile pods on their back? Those guys. Similar to Crab Spiders, you have a weaponised rig on your back that allows for delivery of most of your attacks.

 

Primary - Missile Rig

The missile rig fires a multitude of different projectiles at your foes, from focused volleys to area salvos. Very similar to blast sets, but with a little more area focus.

Example Powers:
Missile Barrage

Missile Volley

EMP Rockets

Nerve Gas Rockets

 

Secondary - Heavy Shields

Supplementing this path with heavier shields is going to help them out more, focusing purely on self buffs.

 

Example Powers:

Heavy Shield

Advanced Force Armor

 

Loyalist Commander - Support Path

The commander path is similar to Crabs in a different regard. They get the ability to summon drones into combat, including blast and shield drones.

 

Primary - Enhanced Gauntlets

Enhanced Gauntlets function a little like Night Widow training, having few powers of their own, intended to be supplemental to the primary instead of outright replacing it.

 

Example Powers:

Force Netting

Force Cage

Force Shockwave

Impact Bomb

 

Secondary - Field Command

Field Command focuses away from self buffs, and instead provides several steam buffs and the ability to summon drones.

 

Example Powers:

Summon Battle Orb

Summon Shield Orb

Summon Augmentation Orb

Leadership

 

 

Sources Used:

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/The_Resistance

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Imperial_Defense_Force
https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Praetorian_Police_Department
https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/UPA
 

While they are cool, to me its just a rehash of the VEATs but just the Gold version.

I'd prefer the PEATS to be something entirely new, HEATs and VEATS are so different that they have nothing to do with each other. Instead let's bring something new to the table instead of more "soldier " type ATs.

 

I like the idea of a DE/Hybrid AT, its way different than any of the other EATs.

Besides, the Praetorian Hamidon is a huge untapped resource, which could finally be introduced through a PEATS arc and what is exactly going on and what has occurred since Hami's "defeat ".

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, The_Warpact said:

While they are cool, to me its just a rehash of the VEATs but just the Gold version.

I'd prefer the PEATS to be something entirely new, HEATs and VEATS are so different that they have nothing to do with each other. Instead let's bring something new to the table instead of more "soldier " type ATs.

 

I like the idea of a DE/Hybrid AT, its way different than any of the other EATs.

Besides, the Praetorian Hamidon is a huge untapped resource, which could finally be introduced through a PEATS arc and what is exactly going on and what has occurred since Hami's "defeat ".

Perhaps instead of unlocking the paths at a set level (like VEATs), they instead unlock them as part of the alignment missions throughout the story?

 

Maybe the two PEATs are instead just one, with the starting Loyalist and Resistance 'paths' being available from the start. That way each time you swap alignment you also swap your powersets from Loyalist to Resistance and vice versa (and also during respecs once you leave praetoria).

 

ie. you pick the archetype, choose resistance or loyalists paths, and each time you do one of the alignment changes during the story, you can choose a new advancement path along with potentially changing from one alignment path to the other. Once out of praetoria, you can swap tracks at will with respecs until you reach level 35, where you can choose from your primary path and the two advancement paths freely. (you cant pick powersets outside of your path though, like loyalist troopers picking 'resistance heavy', and so on)

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Tyrannical

[The_Warpact]

22 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

Perhaps instead of unlocking the paths at a set level (like VEATs), they instead unlock them as part of the alignment missions throughout the story?

 

Maybe the two PEATs are instead just one, with the starting Loyalist and Resistance 'paths' being available from the start. That way each time you swap alignment you also swap your powersets from Loyalist to Resistance and vice versa (and also during respecs once you leave praetoria).

 

Oh yeah thats a fantastic idea and realistically very easy to do.

[Dracomicon]

The Infected

 

Hamidon is destroying the world, all of humanity will perish. Emperor Cole desperately tries for one last attempt to save humanity. Once your praetorian character reaches level 20, instead of leaving for Primal Earth you can accept a mission from Emperor Cole.

 

This mission will ultimately end with the character failing to stop Hamidon and becoming Devouring Earth infected in the process. Emperor Cole tosses your character outside the Sonic Fences to keep Praetoria pure. You then fight through the area hoping to maintain your sanity as you end up deep in Praetoria's underground.

 

You will then create a new character that can choose any one of the ATs but must select as least either a primary or secondary one that is Plant, Nature, Earth, Thorny, Stone, Beast, or Bio. Their origin would be set to Mutation. This character will be granted experience to get to level 20 and given the following additional abilities:

 

(Innate Bonus) Infected Stamina: All powers have a 15% end reduction, this bonus is affected by diminishing returns. This bonus grows to 20% at level 30, 25% at level 40, and 30% at level 50.
(Power) Beastial Enhancement: This would be the same as Super Jump.
(Power) Nature's Glory: This would be similar to Rise of the Phoenix without the damage portion.

 

If the character is defeated, they must use Nature's Glory as no other form of revive will work on their infected bodies.

 

(Power) Glorious Vengeance: Through sheer force of will and hatred for Emperor Cole, the character is able to fight the infection and assume their previous form for a short time. This button will switch the character to their original Praetorian character with a timer for 2 hours before they revert back to their infected forms. When reverting back to their infected form, the character remains confused for 15 seconds as they fight to regain control. If the original character is chosen from the Character select screen, the timer will start at 2 hours.

 

As the character grows, other praetorians will hear of the one that did not succumb to Hamidon's influence and will offer missions to enhance their abilities. These missions will come from both the Resistance and the Loyalists but not from Emperor Cole. These missions will unlock their Infected abilities.

 

At Level 25:
(Power) Toxic Spore: This would be similar to the Corrosive Vial power from the Experimentation Pool.

 

At Level 30:
(Innate Bonus) Infected Strength: All powers have a 15% damage boost, this bonus is affected by diminishing returns. This bonus grows to 20% at level 40, and 25% at level 50.
(Power) Chameleon Skin: This would be similar to Invisibility from the Concealment pool.

 

At Level 35:
(Power) Pandemic Presence: This would be similar to Invoke Panic from the Presence Pool.

 

At Level 40:
(Innate Bonus) Infected Resistance: A 5% bonus to all resistances. This bonus grows to 10% at level 50.
(Power) Hatred Unleashed: This would be similar to the Unleash Potential power from the Force of Will pool.

 

At Level 45:
(Power) Raging Infection: Similar to the Spirit Ward power from the Sorcery pool but affects the character.

 

At level 50, the character will find a way to face down Emperor Cole now in a secret Vanguard black site prison and steal some of his power. Using the stolen power from Emperor Cole a cure will be found for the Infected restoring their full humanity and bringing hope to restore Praetoria's lost humans as well.

(Power) Infected Mastery: The power glorious Vengeance will be replaced with this power that no longer has a timer and the character can now freely switch between the two characters with a long cooldown in-between without any confuse penalty.
 

[BZRKR]

Don't forget another Praetorian group that could be mined for ideas: The Awakened.

[Hew]

7 minutes ago, BZRKR said:

Don't forget another Praetorian group that could be mined for ideas: The Awakened.

Gack no, not those tentacled monstrositities!

 

They would have to get the onceover like widows did to get, cough cough, male widows. 

[BZRKR]

3 minutes ago, Hew said:

Gack no, not those tentacled monstrositities!

Well, okay but not all of them are tentacled: https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/The_Awakened

 

And mostly I was thinking about all of their weird powers and special effects that are already in game and ripe for the repurposing.

[Alchemystic]

13 minutes ago, BZRKR said:

Well, okay but not all of them are tentacled: https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/The_Awakened

 

And mostly I was thinking about all of their weird powers and special effects that are already in game and ripe for the repurposing.

I took a little peek at these during the creation of the 'Pain' powersets in my other thread. 

 

There's certainly a wealth of unique powers to play with!

[CrudeVileTerror]

As the saying goes, I generally don't like to "yuck other people's yum," and if PEATs are what the Devs wanna do then PEATs are what they wanna do,

 

buuuuuuut . . . 

 

I still think it would be cooler to get a Rikti Epic Archetype character.

Or the old Coralax Epic idea that was bounced around before Arachnos Epics.

Or the Black Blood Epic that someone suggested in the boards a while back.

 

I'm not against Praetorian Epics.  I just kind of wonder if we would really get as much mileage out of them as some of the other Epic ideas that have been bounced around.

 

All that being said . . . yeah.  The Resistance/Loyalist branching Epic Archetype definitely sounds the most compelling to me here, but there's also the potential downside with getting frustrated building one and having to be forced in to certain story arcs or mission content.

 

This focus on the idea of a Devouring Earth Epic is a little boggling to me.  I would have figured people would hate them more than they hate the Rikti, honestly.  

Something that's definitely surprised me, to say the least.  Who knew there were so many eco-philes out there?

[Darmian]

Personally, while a lot of thought has gone into the above DE ideas, I'm not feeling it.  I'd see something more along the lines of Noble Savage or a Ghoul who has broken from the mindless rage somehow. Links to a former life, links to the Forlorn. I dunno, I'm just throwing stuff out here. Or the sometimes mentioned "True AI" of an awakened Clockwork (not that sort of Awakened!), 

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Darmian said:

 Or the sometimes mentioned "True AI" of an awakened Clockwork (not that sort of Awakened!),

You can pick (almost?) all of the Praetorian Clockwork pieces in the costume builder, so unless there is some specific power combination that can't be represented in the existing AT I would deprioritize this one.

[Hew]

The thing about DE is that we have been tied to them peripherally the whole damn game. There are flowerblossom? tips, and a bunch of others. It is supposed to be this huge thing, but unlike Rikti, we have no Heronator, RWZ events, Dropships, Invasions, etc etc etc. There are truly enormous parts of the game dedicated to the Rikti. You are intertwined with them from level very-low, with the cure wand, all the way up to 50. 

 

DE? They are like, tips? An occasional mish in your 40-50s on arcs, and well? Thats it! Oh, and of course Hami himself.

 

Praetoria introduced Hami as a whole different ballgame. A hami with no restrictions.

 

If I were to go head on with The Battalion, I sure as hell would want some of that go-juice in the tank. Praetoria is a place where Big Thoughts are Thought Big. Nothing there is ever done half measure!

 

Please, genesplice me! Give me one of those "Teethguns" from existenz, but cover that with some freaky DE whatnot

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Hew

[Darmian]

44 minutes ago, tidge said:

You can pick (almost?) all of the Praetorian Clockwork pieces in the costume builder, so unless there is some specific power combination that can't be represented in the existing AT I would deprioritize this one.

Well, that's a fair point. 

 

How about an ACU or a BCU with a human consciousness trapped within it?

[Panthonca7034]

I've already had several LEAT (Loyalist Epic Archetype ) and REAT Ideas which some of you already had in mind, but I decided to map them out, and most important, YOU CAN'T leave out the Carnival of Light! 😉

 

Resistance Faction:

Resistance Rifleman: Has all of the basic Resistance plasma attacks

 

Resistance Heavy Gunner

 

Elite Resistance Commando

 

Elite Resistance Infiltrator

 

Elite Resistance Leader (Calvin Scott Level type Resistance)

 

Elite Resistance Crusader Assassin (has some Arachnos type weapons)

 

Elite Resistance Warden Operative (has some Longbow type weapons and attacks)

 

 

Carnival of Light:

 

Carnival Acolyte/Anchorite Melee (Acolyte is Male, Anchorite Female)

Carnival Eremite/Shining Attendant Melee Range (Eremite Male, Attendant Female)

 

Carnival Warrior/Resplendent Mistress Mostly Range with some Melee (Warrior Male, Resplendent Mistress Female)

 

 

Syndicate:

 

Blade Initiate/Brawler Melee

 

Small Arms Adept Range (Uses both Pistols and Submachinegun)

 

Assassin Striker (Uses Sniper rifle and concealment kill)

 

Elementalist (Pyro or Telekinesis)

 

Sword Master Master Melee

 

Corporate Suit (Combination of a Fortunata and a Blood Widow with more emphasis on Psionics)

 

 

 

Loyalist Faction:

 

PPD Path

 

PPD Trooper/Enforcer Melee and Ranged

 

PPD Justicar Melee/Ranged and Leadership Support

 

PPD Investigator Melee/Range/Conceal (Assassin type)

 

PPD Interrogator Melee/Range/PBAoE

 

T.E.S.T Trooper Some Melee, Mostly Range

 

T.E.S.T. Provost Mostly Melee, Some range

 

 

Imperial Defense/Imperial Defense Special Forces

 

D.U.S.T. Elite Commandos

 

 

@Piecemeal

 

Pre-Sunset, I was actually left with more hunger for Goldside content, definitely no Prae-Fatigue

Edited November 17, 2020 by Panthonca7034
Addin

[Snarky]

23 hours ago, Darmian said:

I have a question here: Simply put, if you're not going to be in Praetoria as a full Praetorian, then what is the point of this entire thread?  What VEATs and HEATs we have really come into their own after 20, and presumably a variety of Gold EAT will do the same. So I doubt the 1 to 20 arc from Nova to Neutropolis is going to radically change, so the majority of Gold origin toons will leave at 20ish for Primal earth and that then ties them tenuously into the arc for the New Praetorians or the Rogue Isles equivalent.  And from then on they are, effectively, Primal toons apart from what badges they earn.  That's it. 

But it doesn't have to be like that.

 

We, know and it is done, that characters can continue on as Praetorians after 20 via First Ward and into Night Ward. Setting PEAT storyline here would I think be far more interesting, and lead on further than just trying to slot them into parallel arcs that exist for Rift crossers at level 20. Indeed a secondary option to cross to Primal WITHOUT naturalizing as such around level 40 would provide a lot of interesting content. (Why should they not naturalize? Well, Primals can wander in and out of Praetoria at will without ever being required to lose their contacts or background from Level 1, asking that a Praetorian be accorded at least that at level 40(!) is hardly unreasonable I feel.)

 

And yes, I do have a vested interest in this since a majority of my toons are Gold, if you're going to go that route post 20 with PEATS you have to offer the same incentives to those who follow that route who are not PEATS.

 

Again, It really boils down to the 20s.  If you're going to end up leaving, and no work is done to allow for not, I really don't see the point of this.

 

 

Goldside never got fully developed.  unless you wrap a Gold Epic into finishing as a Mender or in the Ouro storylines somehow it is kind of a dead end.  IMO.   ....I do like the OURO, alt earth, time/corp timecop thing though

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Goldside never got fully developed.  unless you wrap a Gold Epic into finishing as a Mender or in the Ouro storylines somehow it is kind of a dead end.  IMO.   ....I do like the OURO, alt earth, time/corp timecop thing though

My thoughts as to where Praetoria could go is that during the fight between the Loyalists and Resistance, the Syndicate swoop in for a power grab.

 

They put Metronome in charge of the clockwork, and Penny Yin in charge of the seers, and they run the state with a 'business as usual' facade to keep everything looking the same as it always did, while inserting crime lords as the new Praetors in a hostile takeover.

[InvaderStych]

19 hours ago, Night said:

Making your character unplayable because you wanna try a new AT is a terrible, bad decision and gets a huge NO

 

Alternatively, it's an opportunity to start a character from scratch with that exact path in mind, and eventually leveraging the ability to switch between Life/Afterlife builds on the fly.

 

When I read the concept, it never even occurred to me that I'd be using an existing 50 to run the path.  Doesn't fit their original design, but I know not everyone approaches their characters the same, so YMMV.

 

In a practical sense, it would probably make more sense to use the "multiple builds" function than have two separate toons at the character creator.  Easier to implement the lvl 50 unlock that switches back and forth that way.  There might be some issue with that approach, like a couple I can think of:

 

It might not be possible to setup an A/B set of the 3 builds each.

 

There may not be a way to invoke the AT selection screen via command similar to /respec; ie there might not be a way to be a Tanker in Life and a Defender in death.  Code limitations might mean you're stuck with two different power sets of the same AT.  Of course, I like the narrative idea enough that a technical limitation like that wouldn't bother me much.  Something about reaching for victory after a seemingly ultimate defeat speaks to me these days.

 

So basically, finish the instigating arc, dying in defeat, Personal Story Mission & or Cut Scene, invoke either AT or Powers selection screen whichever is technically possible, all previous builds and costumes are temporarily unavailable until finishing out the lvl 50 arc and finally being victorious in a version of the original objective in the first place.  Power takes on a "Forms" button that swaps between A/B build and costume sets..

[Galaxy Brain]

13 hours ago, Hew said:

The thing about DE is that we have been tied to them peripherally the whole damn game. There are flowerblossom? tips, and a bunch of others. It is supposed to be this huge thing, but unlike Rikti, we have no Heronator, RWZ events, Dropships, Invasions, etc etc etc. There are truly enormous parts of the game dedicated to the Rikti. You are intertwined with them from level very-low, with the cure wand, all the way up to 50. 

 

DE? They are like, tips? An occasional mish in your 40-50s on arcs, and well? Thats it! Oh, and of course Hami himself.

 

Praetoria introduced Hami as a whole different ballgame. A hami with no restrictions.

 

If I were to go head on with The Battalion, I sure as hell would want some of that go-juice in the tank. Praetoria is a place where Big Thoughts are Thought Big. Nothing there is ever done half measure!

 

Please, genesplice me! Give me one of those "Teethguns" from existenz, but cover that with some freaky DE whatnot

 

 

 

 

In all seriousness, I echo the feeling of using the Devouring Earth as a theme here since they are the *major* villain group of Praetoria if you look at the big picture, and likewise are a titanic part of Primal Earth despite how overlooked it is. Hell, there is a whole zone leading up to Hami that isn't used + the giant monster island that seems equally ignored that could be tied in. On top of this, we have the unused Primalist (ironic naming) AT that could be configured and even mixed in with the magical side of Praetoria with the Spirit Hunters being the forms the AT can change into (with the option of non-spirit skins for the animal forms). These two, along with re-using DE assets like the placed buff pets and such could make for something cool. We have Science/Tech/Natural covered by current HEAT/VEATs, so Mutation/Magic for the PEAT also seems fitting using the unique Praetorian Assets.

 

As for other options, I really like @Tyrannical's idea for a Resistance/Loyalist split that lets you be either, especially where story choices matter, but I also think they are too familiar to the VEAT's in that sense. Specifically SoA in how theyre.... well.... soldiers.

 

Another unique aspect of Praetoria are of course the factions seen in the Wards. Carnival of Light, Black Knights, Midnighters, Spirit Hunters (see above), and the Talons could all be incorporated in various degrees. 

 

Oh, and of course there is always becoming a Clockwork (we have the full costume parts already lol) with options to be a Mender or War Walker.

 

Then again, a lot of these could be combined into one as we see in Praetoria itself:

 

 

 

Thinking as I type this out, maybe an amalgamation of all these ideas could work: 

 

 

PEAT = Warder

 

The Warder gets their name from having been a denizen of the Wards left behind in Praetoria, and making their way back into Nova Praetoria Proper. Coming from the Ward, the Warder has been imbued with the unique magical energies found at that leyline, on top of the spores of the devouring earth, paving the way to unique abilities.

 

Just fleshing this out, but this could either be a single AT with a branching option leaning more towards Spells or Devouring Earth, or it could be two separate ATs with a ton of similarities like Kheldians, just with one being Magic Origin and the other Mutation Origin. I'm leaning towards the latter where these are two separate AT's myself.

 

As you start off, each warder is very similar in that they have some generic powers based on weapons and melee combat, alongside a unique power or two based on their Magical or Mutant origins. I very much like the idea of story progression tying into this, so from 1-20 I would even encourage the AT's to gain unique pool powers relative to their Resistance or Loyalist designations such as a Resistance heavy rifle or particle shielding from Loyalists. 

 

Past level 20 though the generic powers make way for the more specialized roles of the Magic Abilities / Devouring Earth attributes, with some overlap on each side. Things like turning into a spirit animal, summoning living spells temporarily, infecting enemies to confuse them, casting powerful magic auras, and so on I could see as staples of the AT's to become something unique.

 

 

 

 

[Darmian]

More lovely thoughts from people regarding what can be done 🙂

 

I'm still waving the flag though, that all of this is for naught if you're just going to (a) leave for Primal at 20ish or (b) leave for Primal at 40ish having gone through FW and NW.  Gold side in addition to this needs at least one 40 to 50 additional zone, possibly some variation of Last Bastion, and the ability of any Gold sider to interact with Primal earth/Primal Earth forces without becoming effective natives of Primal Earth.

 

Right, that's that reiterated.  I'll stop ranting about it now.

[GM ColdSpark]

*Cries slightly at the thought of having to write-up all these great ideas somehow*

 

Only joking of course - I'm loving the different ideas you're throwing around here folks - keep it up!

[Doomguide2005]

One question directed at all the marvelous creativity here.  Owing to life, my experience in things Praetorian pretty much dropped to zero around issue 20-21.  Never heard about Last Bastion, ran any Nightward arcs or even the Underground Trial.  So ... 

 

How or does any of this fit into Incarnate material, the Well and all? Am I correct there's no direct connection to Oroborous for a Gold side character, no access to unlock Incarnate abilities?  Or can you just keep leveling and unlock things that way at 50+ while remaining Praetorian?

 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Doomguide2005
Punctuation

[Darmian]

8 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

One question directed at all the marvelous creativity here.  Owing to life, my experience in things Praetorian pretty much dropped to zero around issue 20-21.  Never heard about Last Bastion, ran any Nightward arcs or even the Underground Trial.  So ... 

 

How or does any of this fit into Incarnate material, the Well and all? Am I correct there's no direct connection to Oroborous for a Gold side character, no access to unlock Incarnate abilities?  Or can you just keep leveling and unlock things that way at 50+ while remaining Praetorian?

 

 

Bear with me everyone, slight digression for @Doomguide2005.  My main, Kameron Daniels, (pictured in avatar) is a level 50 Goldsider, got the incarnates.  So, no, you cannot get to Ouroborous as a Goldsider, so you can't do the Mender Ramiel missions, or talk to Prometheus or any of that.  You level up and you earn everything through threads and shards, and it's totally doable, you just haven't anything to, not shortcut things for you but to point the way. You can however access Ouro missions, but only Praetorian ones, via a crystal in an SG base, so that really helps.  Plus you can do Cathedral of Pain, the Summer Block Buster, and all of the iTrials. 

 

Last Bastion is a bugbear for me as a goldsider, in that it is an area of Praetoria that no non crossing Praetorian can go!  You need to work with Number Six to access it and other Praetorian instances that are closed to actual Goldsiders (as opposed to Goldsider originated toons).

 

Lore-wise?  You don't learn anything about the Well if I'm staying in character now, you just find yourself getting stronger and more powerful.  Hmm, that at least might need to be addressed!

 

Ok, happy to answer more questions on incarnate Goldsiders as I have spent the last six months pushing against as many limits as I can.

 

Back to the topic at hand, thanks for everyone's forbearance.

[Dracomicon]

5 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Alternatively, it's an opportunity to start a character from scratch with that exact path in mind, and eventually leveraging the ability to switch between Life/Afterlife builds on the fly.

 

When I read the concept, it never even occurred to me that I'd be using an existing 50 to run the path.  Doesn't fit their original design, but I know not everyone approaches their characters the same, so YMMV.

 

In a practical sense, it would probably make more sense to use the "multiple builds" function than have two separate toons at the character creator.  Easier to implement the lvl 50 unlock that switches back and forth that way.  There might be some issue with that approach, like a couple I can think of:

 

It might not be possible to setup an A/B set of the 3 builds each.

 

There may not be a way to invoke the AT selection screen via command similar to /respec; ie there might not be a way to be a Tanker in Life and a Defender in death.  Code limitations might mean you're stuck with two different power sets of the same AT.  Of course, I like the narrative idea enough that a technical limitation like that wouldn't bother me much.  Something about reaching for victory after a seemingly ultimate defeat speaks to me these days.

 

So basically, finish the instigating arc, dying in defeat, Personal Story Mission & or Cut Scene, invoke either AT or Powers selection screen whichever is technically possible, all previous builds and costumes are temporarily unavailable until finishing out the lvl 50 arc and finally being victorious in a version of the original objective in the first place.  Power takes on a "Forms" button that swaps between A/B build and costume sets..

Great summation of my idea.

 

I like the idea of being able to swap between different ATs as an alternative to starting a new character.

 

The idea is to try and leverage our existing systems with minimal effort as possible. I would like the dual builds to function like multiple builds that use different AT and powersets, but think that an easier solution would be to have two separate character slots that are allowed to change mid-mission without going to the loading screen.

 

This would also force the player to essentially earn twice the XP, with the benefit of gaining the dual-build option and some nice (hopefully not balance destroying) bonuses that help with enhancement slotting and access to some nice utility pool powers.

 

This ability to switch between different AT and powerset builds gives access to a lot of possible ideas to access it through character development.

[Dracomicon]

Dimensional Gemini

 

You select this PEAT when building your character at character creation. You proceed as a normal character until you reach level 20. At this point depending on your alignment you will be presented with a specific mission. For heroes, you will be informed by Vanguard that there is a Praetorian double that is ruining your good name and you must stop them. For villain's, there is a Praetorian double that is trying to end all of your wrong doings. And for a Praetorian, there is a primal earth double that threatens to destroy your world.

 

This mission will begin with you designing your counter-part double in the character creation screens.

(Technically it would be great if this could be setup as an alternate build on your character, but program limitations might force a whole character slot and alternate character to be used.)

You would then be sent to a the Moon base, where you would eventually face against Metronome and Neuron. This ends up with you captured along with your double that is strapped in a experimental tube next to you. Metronome has decided that merging both primal and praetorian dimensions will stop Hamidon as he will be depowered by being merged will a weaker form of himself and all of the super powered individuals will gain in power if their double is also super powered. Your character is the first attempt at testing this theory.

 

As usual, Neuron has taken shortcuts and the experiment ends badly with you getting flung through a dimensional rift ending up in the Shadow Shard. Your double is nowhere to be seen and you have this voice in your head complaining about being unable to see or hear anything. You have been merged with your double, but neither has full control.

 

(Auto Power) Unstable Gemini - You switch between your two characters every 30 minutes. Since neither side is in full control you do not have a label as hero or villain. Everything is yellow to you. You can travel to any non-PVP map and be treated as that side's color. In Atlas park you are treated as a hero, and in Mercy Island you are treated as a villain. On PVP maps, you are given the option to choose what side you are on and can change that option every 15 minutes.
The alignment system and changing to Rogue or Vigilante are not available to you.

 

(Innate Bonus) Gemini Stamina: All powers have a 15% end reduction, this bonus is affected by diminishing returns. This bonus grows to 20% at level 30, 25% at level 40, and 30% at level 50.
(Power) Dimensional Affinity: This would be the same as Teleport.
(Power) Alternate Self: This would be similar to Rise of the Phoenix without the damage portion, and you revive as your counter-part double.

If the character is defeated, they must use Alternate Self as no other form of revive will effect their dimensionally broken body. 

 

As the character gains in experience, their quest for a cure will open up specific missions that will help to unlock their full abilities.

 

At Level 25:
(Power) Incomplete Form: This would be similar to the Phase Shift power from the Concealment Pool. 

 

At Level 30:
(Innate Bonus) Gemini Strength: All powers have a 15% damage boost, this bonus is affected by diminishing returns. This bonus grows to 20% at level 40, and 25% at level 50.
(Power) Stabilizing Injection : This would be similar to Aid Self from the Medicine pool without being interruptible.

 

At Level 35:
(Power) Double Trouble : This would be similar to Invoke Panic from the Presence Pool.

 

At Level 40:
(Innate Bonus) Gemini Resistance: A 5% bonus to all resistances. This bonus grows to 10% at level 50.
(Power) There can be only One: This would be similar to the Unleash Potential power from the Force of Will pool.

 

At Level 45:
(Power) Dimensional Hole: Similar to the Beta Fold Space power from the Teleport pool.

 

At level 50, the character will face his double in a mission where after defeating the double they come to terms with each other and team up to attack the Moon Base and end the experiments.

(Power) Gemini Mastery: The power Unstable Gemini will be replaced with this power that functions the same, but is now a clickable change instead of being every 30 minutes.