The Classic Hero Challenge

[ineffablebob]

I've been waxing nostalgic lately (a hazard of being old), and the idea popped into my head of playing a character like we did back at CoH launch. Your character has been trapped in a time eddy forcing them to live as if it's 2004. City of Heroes has just launched, you have 5 archetypes to choose from and a very limited choice of powersets, contacts are thin on the ground, and the level cap is 40! The goal is to get your character to 40 under the restrictions listed here, at which point you've broken free of the time eddy and can proceed normally.

 

Now obviously we can't do everything exactly as it was back then, but we can come close. Create a hero (no villains yet) using one of the original powersets. (See Knock's post below for the list!) Take nothing from P2W, don't use your origin power (i.e. Apprentice Charm for magic). Do the Outbreak tutorial, and talk only to your origin contact and those introduced directly by them. No scanners, no Twinshot or Shauna Stockwell, and most definitely no AE or Death From Below! Once you get a mission, you have to complete it - no autocomplete or abandon (unless you get something that shouldn't exist in 2004, like a Perez Park hunt before L7). And you can only have 3 missions, so get ready to do those street hunts to clear out space! Oh, and set your difficulty at +0/x1, with both solo bosses and AVs enabled. There were no downgrades to Lts or EBs back in the day!

 

Enhancements are a bit tougher given the recent changes, but I've settled on only placing an enhancement if I have 2 slots in the power, and then leaving one empty - approximating training enhancement level. (Or you can sell the DOs and buy training enhancements from a base quartermaster, thus using all your slots - thanks for the tip on that @Jacke!) No IOs, obviously. Once you hit 12, you can slot DOs as normal, and SOs at 22. For 35 and 40 SOs, you have to unlock the seller for your origin in Founder's Falls or Brickstown. For pool powers, they didn't open until level 6, and you had to take one of the first two powers before you could take the third (at L14). So you'll almost certainly want to take a power from the travel pool of your choice at 6 (i.e. Combat Jumping, Hasten) and then get the travel power at 14. Also, we have inherent Fitness which didn't exist back then, so run with Sprint always on to offset some of the endurance gain from Stamina. Take pool powers you never use (I'm using Presence powers) where you'd have taken Fitness before - probably at 8 for Swift/Hurdle, 16 for Health, and 20 for Stamina - and only slot those Fitness powers after those levels.

 

The city itself has changed a lot since 2004, too! Striga, Peregrine Island, Croatoa, the Hollows, the entire Rogue Isles - none of those exist. Faultline did exist, but it's changed so much that I recommend just not using it unless you're forced for a hunt mission - certainly don't take any contacts there. There are no PvP zones, so no going to Bloody Bay to get Shivans or Warburg for nukes! Getting around is more difficult - you can zone only at physical crossings or by monorail. You have to use the monorail as it originally was: Yellow Line (Atlas, KR, Steel South, Skyway North) and Green Line (Steel North, Talos, Indy North, Brickstown – no Founder's Falls and Skyway South, those were added Issue 9). And no shortcuts through an SG base, because there are no bases!

 

There's lot of other minor things that have changed, not least of which is the powers themselves. It's a lot easier being an Invulnerability tank these days, for instance! Also, I'm restricting myself from the Positron and Yin TFs since they're so different from the originals. There's plenty of missions changes, too - the Fortune Teller didn't used to be so helpful! So everything isn't exactly as it was, but as I said before, we can come close. So far I've been running solo, but teaming is certainly an option - I'll probably not allow myself to team with anyone more than a level or two higher, just to keep the experience closer to the early days.

 

My first foray into this challenge is named Classic Hero 2004, a Kinetics/Electric defender. Because I'm a masochist, I'm also running her deathless (in the Iron Eagles SG on Everlasting). Made it to 12, though not without a few hiccups. The removal of hazard zone restrictions means I was given some Perez Park missions before L7, which I had to abandon and get again later. And it was pretty rough doing CoT hunts in King's Row and Perez Park!

 

Anyway, I'll post some updates here, and if anyone else wants to try it out, I encourage you to share the experience! There are quite a few folks already working on their own "City of Heroes Launch Re-enactor" toons, mostly on the Everlasting shard, and we even have a supergroup: "We Have No Issues". (Credit to @Doc_Scorpionfor the re-enactment label, and @Greycatfor setting up the SG!) To make it easier to find one another, I have created a global channel named "Launch Re-enactors". Anyone interested welcome to join! Should make finding SG invites easier, at the very least.

 

/chanjoin "Launch Re-enactors"

Edited December 12, 2020 by ineffablebob
Bunch of additional restrictions and clarifications!

[Doc_Scorpion]

21 minutes ago, ineffablebob said:

Enhancements are a bit tougher given the recent changes, but I've settled on only placing an enhancement if I have 2 slots in the power, and then leaving one empty - approximating training enhancement level. No IOs, obviously. Once you hit 12, you can slot DOs as normal, and SOs at 22. As for powers, we have inherent Fitness which didn't exist back then, so run with Sprint always on to offset some of the endurance gain from Stamina. Take pool powers you never use (I'm using Presence powers) where you'd have taken Fitness before - probably at 8, 16, and 20 - and only slot those Fitness powers after those levels. No pool powers until level 6, and then only the first two from the original pools. (No Sorcery or Experimentation!) Travel powers at 14.

If you're truly recreating the Classic experience...  shouldn't it be travel powers after you've taken the precursor power (I.E. hover) and no earlier than 14?  (I didn't start until Christmas 2006, in between Issues 8 and 9, so I'm not entirely familiar with the earlier eras.)

Aye, the days when you'd have to beat off people with sticks if you announced you were running the Atlas Park safeguard - that jetpack was a godsend to many.  (Yes, I know, no safeguards under your rules.  It was just a stray memory of travel powers back in the day.)  The jet pack (Atlas Park) and jump pack (King's Row) were greatly desired because they gave you early travels powers, and if you were stingy in using them let you delay taking travel powers.

[ineffablebob]

3 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

If you're truly recreating the Classic experience...  shouldn't it be travel powers after you've taken the precursor power (I.E. hover) and no earlier than 14?  (I didn't start until Christmas 2006, in between Issues 8 and 9, so I'm not entirely familiar with the earlier eras.)

Yep, that was the intent - wasn't as clear as I meant to be, so thanks for clarifying. Classic Hero 2004 took Combat Jumping at 6, and will be taking Super Jump at 14. Although as a Kin, she can get by with Siphon Speed as long as there's a safe enemy nearby...but still, I'd rather have the real travel power! Plus, I'm gonna need those pre-reqs to take Acrobatics at 22! Knockback protection is huge for a squishy that can't use IOs.

[wolfshadow31]

Defenders are a bit tricky here, as with the changes to Vigilance, the damage boost while solo is hard to ignore if trying to experience the game in it's original fashion.

[Normal Thomas]

Oh wow. You'll actually have to do respec trials if you want to make any changes to your character.

[ineffablebob]

1 hour ago, wolfshadow31 said:

Defenders are a bit tricky here, as with the changes to Vigilance, the damage boost while solo is hard to ignore if trying to experience the game in it's original fashion.

Yeah, stuff like this is kinda unavoidable. Or at least, not avoidable with the amount of work I'm willing to do! The experience won't ever be exactly the same, but we can get close.

42 minutes ago, Normal Thomas said:

Oh wow. You'll actually have to do respec trials if you want to make any changes to your character.

And at the correct character level, too. No exemplar back in 2004!

[Six-Six]

Wow. this is interesting. I didn't play CoH when it was Live, only when it came out with Homecoming. Would anyone have that list of ATs and Powers that were available back then? or... Since I already have a toon in mind, can anyone confirm if Energy Blast/ Energy Manip Blaster was?

[Normal Thomas]

6 minutes ago, Six Six said:

Wow. this is interesting. I didn't play CoH when it was Live, only when it came out with Homecoming. Would anyone have that list of ATs and Powers that were available back then? or... Since I already have a toon in mind, can anyone confirm if Energy Blast/ Energy Manip Blaster was?

Yep! That's an Issue 0 character you can make. Lemme think... initial power sets for Blasters were:

 

Primaries

Assault Rifle

Fire Blast

Electrical Blast

Energy Blast

Ice Blast

 

Secondaries

Devices

Fire Manipulation

Electrical Manipulation

Energy Manipulation

Ice Manipulation

 

source: City of Heroes game manual on my desk

[Six-Six]

Thanks 😃
 

[Rathulfr]

29 minutes ago, Normal Thomas said:

Yep! That's an Issue 0 character you can make. Lemme think... initial power sets for Blasters were:

 

Primaries

Assault Rifle

Fire Blast

Electrical Blast

Energy Blast

Ice Blast

 

Secondaries

Devices

Fire Manipulation

Electrical Manipulation

Energy Manipulation

Ice Manipulation

 

source: City of Heroes game manual on my desk

 

My OG Energy/Energy Blaster was the first thing I re-created on HC back in April 2019.  It's technically still my "main".

 

[Six-Six]

Heeh. Started him just now. Currently grinding the badge for the contaminated in Outbreak 😃

A few questions/clarifications:

1) as far as missions go, I go Outbreak -> Origin Contact then progress to the next introduced contact, so on so forth? Ignore "pop up" contacts like Shauna and Twinshot?
2) P2W lady does not exist. IOs don't exist.
3) can someone clarify this please? 

4 hours ago, ineffablebob said:

Take pool powers you never use (I'm using Presence powers) where you'd have taken Fitness before - probably at 8, 16, and 20 - and only slot those Fitness powers after those levels. No pool powers until level 6, and then only the first two from the original pools. 

 

From my understanding, Fitness was not inherent then. So at level 8, 16, and 20 I would have taken Health, Stamina, Hurdle/Swift? And to approximate that, at level 8 I take a tertiary power that I will specifically never use to compensate for already having Health, same for Level 16 and Stamina and so on? Also (minor) Tertiary Power Pool opens at 6 instead of 4. Travel Powers are available at 14.

[ineffablebob]

1 hour ago, Six Six said:

From my understanding, Fitness was not inherent then. So at level 8, 16, and 20 I would have taken Health, Stamina, Hurdle/Swift? And to approximate that, at level 8 I take a tertiary power that I will specifically never use to compensate for already having Health, same for Level 16 and Stamina and so on? Also (minor) Tertiary Power Pool opens at 6 instead of 4. Travel Powers are available at 14.

Almost. You had to take either Hurdle or Swift first (usually at L8), then you could get Health at 14 (but often pushed to 16 since you got your travel power at 14), and finally Stamina at L20. So that's where the 8, 16, 20 levels came from for taking the extra pool powers that you never use. I've edited the original post to clarify, thanks for pointing it out!

[ineffablebob]

Also, another edit to the original post:

5 hours ago, ineffablebob said:

Oh, and set your difficulty at +0/x1, with both solo bosses and AVs enabled. There were no downgrades to Lts or EBs back in the day!

Forgot to mention that the first time! It's unlikely you'll see AVs before L40 - not sure there were any outside Task Forces in the original game - but there's plenty of bosses! Just be happy the Bone Daddies don't have Shadow Maul any more....

[ineffablebob]

1 hour ago, Six Six said:

1) as far as missions go, I go Outbreak -> Origin Contact then progress to the next introduced contact, so on so forth? Ignore "pop up" contacts like Shauna and Twinshot?

Correct, and no police scanners either. Getting missions is actually slightly easier than it used to be, because originally the contact wouldn't give you their cell phone until you'd almost filled up their influence bar. Not gonna sweat that particular detail, though.

 

You may get some introductions that don't make sense - Classic Hero 2004 was directed to Mercedes Sheldon, for instance, and there was certainly no Midnighter Club in 2004! Those you'll just have to ignore.

[Six-Six]

Awesome.
Am I limited to +0x1? I try to run things at +2x4 as soon as the toon is able.
Also, what's the ruling on The Hollows? I like the Frostfire arc, am I allowed to do the 3 arcs in the Hollows?

A bit more clarification on Fitness pool (sorry).
I usually slot running SO in Swift and a leaping SO in Hurdle. Does that mean I take 4 unnecessary powers to compensate? Or if I forego Swift and Hurdle, am I allowed just 2 unnecessary power picks (but still take Health and Stamina at 16 and 20)?

[Vanden]

3 hours ago, ineffablebob said:

And at the correct character level, too. No exemplar back in 2004!

Respec trials weren't added until issue 2, though. Still 2004, I guess.

[ineffablebob]

36 minutes ago, Six Six said:

Am I limited to +0x1?

Afraid so. Slows things down, but that's how it was back then. If you wanted higher levels in a mission, you had to find someone else who was higher level and run theirs!

37 minutes ago, Six Six said:

Also, what's the ruling on The Hollows?

Nope, didn't exist.

37 minutes ago, Six Six said:

A bit more clarification on Fitness pool (sorry).

You have to take 3 - it wasn't possible to take only Health and Stamina. You needed either Swift or Hurdle before Health would unlock, and then Stamina. Technically I suppose a 4th dummy power should be taken to account for the other of Swift/Hurdle, but I'm not going to sweat that one. Three dead power choices is enough!

18 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Respec trials weren't added until issue 2, though. Still 2004, I guess.

That's a good point, I hadn't thought about it. No respecs, then! Of course, once you get to 40 you're freed of the time eddy and can do whatever.

[Darmian]

What about doing classic Posi from the ouro?  I mean literally ONLY going to the ouro for that mish?

[Placta]

1 hour ago, ineffablebob said:

It's unlikely you'll see AVs before L40 - not sure there were any outside Task Forces in the original game - but there's plenty of bosses!

There are two: The Envoy of Shadows and Terra, both in 35-40 arcs. Also, Ubelmann was an EB when I ran that arc, a rather unpleasant surprise. He may be an AV naturally.

 

• Zoning only at physical crossings or by monorail. You have to use the monorail as it originally was: Yellow Line (Atlas, KR, Steel South, Skyway North) and Green Line (Steel North, Talos, Indy North, Brickstown – no FF and Skyway South, those were added Issue 9).
• For 35 and 40 SOs, you have to unlock the respective seller in FF or Brickstown.
• No Shivans.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Placta

[Six-Six]

Great! thanks.
having fun with him so far. 
BLASTRO in Everlasting

a creation of S.E.R.A.P.H in 2004.
also S.E.R.A.P.H.'s fault he was thrown to 2020

Renamed him to Black Atom with accompanying costume change... in an effort to reinvigorate the toon after losing momentum due to RL stuff.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Six-Six

[ineffablebob]

8 hours ago, Placta said:

There are two: The Envoy of Shadows and Terra, both in 35-40 arcs. Also, Ubelmann was an EB when I ran that arc, a rather unpleasant surprise. He may be an AV naturally.

 

• Zoning only at physical crossings or by monorail. You have to use the monorail as it originally was: Yellow Line (Atlas, KR, Steel South, Skyway North) and Green Line (Steel North, Talos, Indy North, Brickstown – no FF and Skyway South, those were added Issue 9).
• For 35 and 40 SOs, you have to unlock the respective seller in FF or Brickstown.
• No Shivans.

Ah, now that you mention him, I remember the Envoy of Shadows! Used to run the arc and get to the last mission, then it would sit there for ages until I found a night when I gathered enough SG mates to beat him up. Thanks for the info!

 

Also thanks for the additional restriction details, which I'll add to the OP. I'd thought of the first two but didn't write them down. The thought of pointing out the lack of PvP zones never crossed my mind, though!

[Knock!]

Powersets at launch:

 

Blaster		Controller		Defender		Scrapper		Tank
Primary	Secondary	Primary	Secondary	Primary	Secondary	Primary	Secondary	Primary	Secondary
Assault Rifle	Devices	Earth Control	Empathy	Dark Miasma	Dark Blast	Broadsword	Dark Armor	Fiery Aura	Battle Axe
Electrical Blast	Electricity Manipulation	Fire Control	Force Field	Empathy	Electrical Blast	Claws	Invulnerability	Ice Armor	Energy Melee
Energy Blast	Energy Manipulation	Gravity Control	Kinetics	Force Field	Energy Blast	Dark Melee	Regeneration	Invulnerability	Fiery Melee
Fire Blast	Fire Manipulation	Ice Control	Radiation Emission	Kinetics	Psychic Blast	Katana	Super Reflexes	Stone Armor	Ice Melee
Ice Blast	Ice Manipulation	Illusion Control	Storm Summoning	Radiation Emission	Radiation Blast	Martial Arts			Stone Melee
		Mind Control		Storm Summoning		Spines			Super Strength
									War Mace

 

Everyone make sure to street hunt plenty of +5 to +8 purple MOBs! I'll be walking the bridge in IP.

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Knock!
Made the table smaller

[nihilii]

33 minutes ago, Knock! said:

Powersets at launch

Woah. It's mindblowing to reflect on the possibilities now compared to then. We went from just barely above a hundred choices (which was already pretty damn nice) to thousands of different combos.

[ineffablebob]

Thanks @Knock!for the list! Put a link to it in the OP.

[Knock!]

29 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Woah. It's mindblowing to reflect on the possibilities now compared to then. We went from just barely above a hundred choices (which was already pretty damn nice) to thousands of different combos.

Until I looked, I'd forgotten that there were only 4 Tanker primaries, 4 Scrapper secondaries, and so many sets that were unique to a single AT.