Hurricane Repel

[Wavicle]

I'm sorry you are unable to understand what I've said. Have a good one.

[Wavicle]

I will make one more attempt, though not with much hope.

Hurricane is one of a very, very few powers in the game that require actual player skill and thought.

What you are asking for is a way to make it not require those things. You want to be able to just turn it on and then ignore it. Basically you just want it to be an armor toggle.

Well, sorry, but the way the power works is that it has advantages and disadvantages AND disadvantages that can be TURNED INTO advantages by MOVING at the right time and in the right place.

The level of skill required is NOT very high, but considering that most of this game requires NO player skill at all, that's still a big increase.

[plainguy]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

The repel effect of Hurricane does NOT inherently scatter mobs. The fact you keep repeating that indicates you are using it wrong.

The repel effect pushes mobs away from YOU the caster. So, if you are in the MIDDLE of a group when you use it, then yes it will scatter mobs.

If you use it from ONE SIDE of the group, and even better if you move back and forth on that side, it will push the whole group all in one direction.

 

Yes you can shuffle mobs in a direction..  There is no debate.. 

 

But your wording is if your scattering mobs you are doing it wrong..  

Who in the world says someone can't go into a crowd of mobs and turn on hurricane ?  Again is there something in game that says we caution you NOT to go into mobs as they will scatter ?

Game mechanic wise if you have decent range defenses and moderate melee defenses this power with its hit debuff at melee is doing what it is intended to do.. 

 

The simple debate is some people think the Repel in this power sucks. Regardless even if they know how to use this power like a surgeon with a surgical knife.. 

That is what is on debate here..

 

You are imposing or trying to impose your notion if someone isn't doing it your way its wrong..  Especially when  there is NO WORDING in game to support your claim..  

Again lie to me tell me you spoke with Matt Miller and that he secretly told you Hurricane was intended to be a  containment power and that the description is wrong or that they were gonna change it the day they shut down the game.. 

Otherwise you need to accept you making a personal call on something with no real facts or data to support your claim.. 

 

So back to my original notion on this..

 

The Repel in Hurricane sucks. But understanding that some players like the repel or are okay with the repel. 

My suggestion is an IO to remove the Repel for those that like the  knockback but NOT constant repel..  And again those that wish can change the Knockback to a Knockdown as well with another IO.. 

 

And yes we understand all of the above about using repel to contain mob. 

 

[Wavicle]

Yes, you CAN run into melee and turn on Hurricane.

Even *I* might be tempted to kick you if that's your playstyle.

[Wavicle]

I've GOT IT. THE SOLUTION:

An IO that removes the effect that repels the enemies from you the caster

and instead makes it repel YOU away from the enemies!

[plainguy]

33 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I will make one more attempt, though not with much hope.

Hurricane is one of a very, very few powers in the game that require actual player skill and thought.

What you are asking for is a way to make it not require those things. You want to be able to just turn it on and then ignore it. Basically you just want it to be an armor toggle.

Well, sorry, but the way the power works is that it has advantages and disadvantages AND disadvantages that can be TURNED INTO advantages by MOVING at the right time and in the right place.

The level of skill required is NOT very high, but considering that most of this game requires NO player skill at all, that's still a big increase.

Im sorry but nothing in this game takes skill or thought, beyond a costume. 

 

I have petless masterminds that can solo 4/8 setting.. Yes it might not be as fast as that other Archtype.. But there are players with IO sets that can't even solo 4/8 setting because they don't get game mechanics.. 

 

If the Devs say I like this IO idea BUT there must be some penalty then so be it..  I create characters with powersets that offer NO defense buffs to be defense capped..  Having to work with the possibility of Repel IO penalty is not a big deal honestly..  I just would like to have hurricane turned on and used like any other power at any time in the game without causing an issue..  I like the power. . I like the look and would like to use it more without any concerns.. 

 

Not looking for any sort of hand me out or freebie.. The Devs do what they do best.. If they feel it needs a penalty then do so. I'm okay with a -15% toHit debuff. 

 

 

 

 

[Dragon Crush]

54 minutes ago, plainguy said:

Oh its a trick..

 

Then you are using this for something it isn't actually intended to do..  EG using a butter knife to screw in a screw because you can't find or are too lazy to find a flat head screwdriver.. 

Sounds like you're starting to intentionally mis-represent things to make a point.  "The trick is to...." is a fairly common saying, and doesn't need to involve doing something you're not supposed to do or some form of deceit. "The trick to driving at night is good headlights" or "the trick to not suffocating is to inhale non-toxic levels of oxygen" are valid sentences and shouldn't imply the "correct way" of doing things is to drive at night without headlights or sucking down >15% or <80% oxygen for extended periods.

[Dragon Crush]

19 minutes ago, plainguy said:

Im sorry but nothing in this game takes skill or thought, beyond a costume. 

 

I have petless masterminds that can solo 4/8 setting.. Yes it might not be as fast as that other Archtype.. But there are players with IO sets that can't even solo 4/8 setting because they don't get game mechanics.. 

So, you can do this but some others can't, almost as if soloing at 4/8 with a petless mastermind takes some sort of skill or thought on how to approach the situation...

 

(also bit off topic, anyone know how to edit a second quote into an existing post so I don't need to double in the future?)

Edited January 22, 2021 by Dragon Crush
note on my double post

[SeraphimKensai]

Sorry that I've neglected this thread, I've been caught up in the real world with a lot of medical stuff with my elderly father, he just had surgery this week.

 

I understand that a lot of people love corner positioning mobs, and I agree to effectively handle that it requires a modicum of skill. On the other hand, we have all witnessed numerous amounts of people either not able or unwilling to gain/utilize the power in such a fashion. Perhaps the solution, lies with the creation of an IO that instead of removes the repel effect, gives it a negative modifier so now mobs are drawn into the hurricane, similar in scope to something such as a water vortex? It would allow a slightly different style of play, pulling mobs more centralized towards the player. The development of the IO would allow those who prefer to the outward repel to keep it, but also open up some further build diversity.

 

Either way let's keep it civil though.

Thanks.

 

 

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Sorry that I've neglected this thread, I've been caught up in the real world with a lot of medical stuff with my elderly father, he just had surgery this week.

 

I understand that a lot of people love corner positioning mobs, and I agree to effectively handle that it requires a modicum of skill. On the other hand, we have all witnessed numerous amounts of people either not able or unwilling to gain/utilize the power in such a fashion. Perhaps the solution, lies with the creation of an IO that instead of removes the repel effect, gives it a negative modifier so now mobs are drawn into the hurricane, similar in scope to something such as a water vortex? It would allow a slightly different style of play, pulling mobs more centralized towards the player. The development of the IO would allow those who prefer to the outward repel to keep it, but also open up some further build diversity.

 

Either way let's keep it civil though.

Thanks.

 

 

Unfortunately they do not, yet, have the technology in game to do this. The best we've got so far is teleport abilities such as Fold Space.

It's a cool idea, although I think it would clearly make more sense for Water Blast>Whirlpool to do that than Storm Summoning>Hurricane.

[SeraphimKensai]

11 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

It's a cool idea, although I think it would clearly make more sense for Water Blast>Whirlpool to do that than Storm Summoning>Hurricane.

I had the same thought regarding whirlpool, and was thinking maybe the IO would have the opposite effect to Whirlpool if it could be made, as that would be a location placed hurricane then.

 

I'm not 100% sure something like that couldn't be made using a negative modifier though, at the same time I don't have any experience really making IO's, I've only made some goofy temp toggle powers for my own server and tried experimenting with agro/targeting caps.

[Dragon Crush]

Sorry to hear about your dad, and yeah, no idea if such an IO would be possible though I know little about what is and isn't possible with the IO system.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Dragon Crush said:

(also bit off topic, anyone know how to edit a second quote into an existing post so I don't need to double in the future?)

You can just highlight the bit of text you want, and after a moment there'll be a "Quote selected" bubble that pops up.

 

It should just add it in wherever your cursor is.

 

Or just hit "Quote" at the bottom of the post if there's not much there, or you want a bigger part of the post - it'll fit it in right beneath.

 

 

[arcane]

If we’re going to allow players to opt out of any feature that is challenging to use correctly, I’m not sure why we can’t just give every AT an inherent toggle power with 45% +DEF(ALL) too. Seriously do you guys want this game to have a hint of nuance or not.

[MsSmart]

I like the repel, in many ways that is what makes Hurricane a signature power; makes no sense at all to remove the feature that makes Hurricane what it i s

 

Sue

[Alty]

So I love HERDICANE and I would be hate to see repel removed. Also considering it's mimicking the high winds of a hurricane, the repel portion makes sense. 

 

I think use of hurricane requires practice and it's player skill to use it well on teams. It really does not require any more modification to make easy mode. In fact, using hurricane currently is easier because the mobs are repelled much slower than pre-nerf. 

 

I also benefited from teaming with other stormies to get the snow storm + hurricane + freezing rain combo down. Also firing off Lighting Storm above the mob so the KB doesn't  knock them off the rain. 

 

Practice hurricane on grey mobs in Perez Park. Test out what it can do because it is a great mob collection tool and debuff.   

 

Snow Storm is the best friend of hurricane for mobs running away or squeezing past the 'cane. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Alty

[BrandX]

If you want to change Hurricane, maybe Storm isn't the set for you.  Or a skippable power for you.

 

And of course, if you're solo, it's easy enough to keep on if wanted.

Edited January 26, 2021 by BrandX

[UltraAlt]

On 1/10/2021 at 10:00 PM, SeraphimKensai said:

Hurricane has the potential to be an amazing power, if we modify it to remove the Repel effect from it. As it is it scatters mobs, causing extra agro, and pushed the mobs outside of the debuffs of the power.

 

Hurricane has knockback, which can be slotted into KD, but the Repel effect still makes the power a situational at best power.

 

Why not remove the Repel effect on hurricane and let stormers do their job of debuffing mobs?

 

I'm assuming this has already been said : Sudden Acceleration :: Knockback to Knockdown proc

 

Honestly, knockback is fairly controllable if you take the time to figure out how to use it. Knockback is a finesse power.

 

I'm going to say it again - based on the way most players play City of Heroes at this point, all the knockback powers should be changed to knockdown and the Sudden Acceleration :: Knockback to Knockdown proc should be changed to a Sudden Acceleration :: Knockdown to Knockback proc

 

(knocking) back to knockback, here's how I use it in general and this is amplified with the continual knockback of hurricane.

1) figure out how to use it so it isn't annoying to a team or yourself. 

2) corner foes - push them into a corner or small room.

3) Pin foes - pin them into a corner, small room, or into a ceiling (works great on Snaptooth in Baby New Years mission) 

4) corral enemies toward the tank - go after the strays and use knockback to knock them toward the tank or melee players on your team

5) wall them - this works best on a single target. knock them back into a wall. wait until they get up and do it again.

6) keep the enemy away from the squishes - most of the time a team splits into two units, one is up in the mob and the other is standing back with the mob. Stay with the ones that are not directly in the mob and use your knockback to keep the enemies out of melee range from the ranged attackers on your team.

 

A hurricane with To hit debuff works best by occasionally bumping the foes to debuff them. If it comes to an AV or EB, you most likely are not going to knock them back, so you can get up close enough to debuff and probably can avoid most of the PBAoEs they might throw at you.

 

But back to Sudden Acceleration :: Knockback to Knockdown proc as that has pretty much been the go-to for most players these days.

[arcane]

On 1/21/2021 at 5:29 PM, plainguy said:

 

But your wording is if your scattering mobs you are doing it wrong..  

Who in the world says someone can't go into a crowd of mobs and turn on hurricane ?  Again is there something in game that says we caution you NOT to go into mobs as they will scatter ?

The feature you are inquiring about is called common sense 🙂

[Alty]

35 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

But back to Sudden Acceleration :: Knockback to Knockdown proc as that has pretty much been the go-to for most players these days.

Except the OP is referring to the repel portion of hurricane and not the KB

 

You even quoted the OP (see below) where they mention its about the repel 

35 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Hurricane has knockback, which can be slotted into KD, but the Repel effect still makes the power a situational at best power.

 

Why not remove the Repel effect on hurricane and let stormers do their job of debuffing mobs?

Additionally, the KB of hurricane works well with the repel as KB moves them faster toward the direction you want the mob to be pushed.

 

To be clear the OP suggestion is about the repel portion. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Alty

[UltraAlt]

4 minutes ago, Alty said:

Except the OP is referring to the repel portion of hurricane and not the KB

 

You even quoted the OP (see below) where they mention its about the repel 

 

Okay, so maybe I don't understand the difference between repel and knockback.

Please explain the difference between the two.

They are both terms for the same thing as far as I know.

They both force the enemy away from the user.

 

6 minutes ago, Alty said:

 

40 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Hurricane has knockback, which can be slotted into KD, but the Repel effect still makes the power a situational at best power.

 

Why not remove the Repel effect on hurricane and let stormers do their job of debuffing mobs?

Additionally, the KB of hurricane works well with the repel as KB moves them faster toward the direction you want the mob to be pushed.

 

To be clear the OP suggestion is about the repel portion. 

 

I didn't say that. You somehow quoted the OP that I quoted in my post.

[Rathulfr]

49 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Okay, so maybe I don't understand the difference between repel and knockback.

Please explain the difference between the two.

They are both terms for the same thing as far as I know.

They both force the enemy away from the user.

 

They are two different status effects.  Knockback is a one-time push of an object away from the point of impact.  Repel is a vector (linear sequence) of multiple pushes away from the originator over a period of time.  They appear to be the same thing on the surface (both push a target away), but are actually quite different, mechanically.  The code for each is different, which is why KB enhancements (or suppressions) have no effect on repels.

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Rathulfr

[UltraAlt]

6 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

 

They are two different status effects.  Knockback is a one-time push of an object away from the point of impact.  Repel is a vector (linear sequence) of multiple pushes away from the originator over a short period of time.  They appear to be the same thing on the surface (both push a target away), but are actually quite different, mechanically.  The code for each is different, which is why KB enhancements (or suppressions) have no effect on repels.

 

well, given this, I still stand by

 

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

1) figure out how to use it so it isn't annoying to a team or yourself. 

2) corner foes - push them into a corner or small room.

3) Pin foes - pin them into a corner, small room, or into a ceiling (works great on Snaptooth in Baby New Years mission) 

4) corral enemies toward the tank - go after the strays and use knockback to knock them toward the tank or melee players on your team

5) wall them - this works best on a single target. knock them back into a wall. wait until they get up and do it again.

6) keep the enemy away from the squishes - most of the time a team splits into two units, one is up in the mob and the other is standing back with the mob. Stay with the ones that are not directly in the mob and use your knockback to keep the enemies out of melee range from the ranged attackers on your team.

 

Repel work to at least reposition or pin foes if not stop them from attacking you - which the knockback/down part does.

[Psyonico]

13 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Knockback is a one-time push of an object away from the point of impact.  

Not correct, Knockback is away from the caster, not the point of impact.  If it was point of impact, Explosive Blast from Energy Blast would send enemies flying in a Sphere, as opposed to straight away from the caster.

[Rathulfr]

9 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Not correct, Knockback is away from the caster, not the point of impact.  If it was point of impact, Explosive Blast from Energy Blast would send enemies flying in a Sphere, as opposed to straight away from the caster.

 

I stand corrected.

 

• Knockback always occurs directly away from the source of the knockback-causing power. This produces unintuitive results in the case of enemy-targeted AoE powers like M30 Grenade, since the natural expectation is for enemies to be knocked away from the central target rather than away from the shooter. Ground-targeted AoEs such as Bonfire produce knockback away from their centers because those powers' effects are produced indirectly, through a pseudopet at the center of the affected area.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Knockback

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Rathulfr