suggestion: buff Acrobatics

[cohRock]

Currently:

While this power is active, you are very nimble and Acrobatic.  You can avoid most Knockback effects and are resistant to Hold effects.  You must be level 14 and have two other Leaping powers before selecting Acrobatics.

...

End Cost: 0.26 end/sec

 

Personally only one of my characters have chosen Acrobatics (fire/fire tank).  One has to invest in two other Leaping powers, and the end cost is equivalent to a full shield.  He doesn't use it for the hold resistance, but for the knock* prevention.  I would suggest enhancing this in subtle ways so as to make it worth the investment and end cost, but not so much that it would become a min-maxer's dream.  Specifically I propose:

1. increase base run speed by 5%
2. increase base fly speed by 10%
3. increase base jump speed and jump height by 10%
4. resistance to slow debuff
5. resistance to recharge debuff

The in-world justification for these improvements would be that, being more athletic you can move better and have learned to minimize wind resistance in above-ground movement.  The slow and recharge resistances would also be the result of your training to maximize your movement and reaction even under harsh conditions.  Note that recharge time isn't actually increased; you have simply gained the ability to shrug off some of a recharge debuff placed on you.

 

The reason I don't propose even a small recharge buff (5%, say) is I don't want the power to be viewed as a step to perma-Hasten.  That might make it too attractive to some people, who would end up with two prerequisite powers many would not otherwise take.

 

None of these abilities would be enhanceable.  Acrobatics would continue to accept End Reduc, Recharge speed, and Knockback (resistance) enhancements only. IMO, the suggested improvements would make the power worth the end cost.

 

Alternatively and less appealingly, the end cost could be lowered to be more in line with its current benefits.  Maybe 0.12 end/sec.

Edited January 23, 2021 by cohRock
added reason for not proposing a recharge buff

[cohRock]

In another thread @Snarky wrote:

Quote

Most pool powers are lesser than versions of ATs power sets.  costing more end and having less effect.  What "compromise" do you suggest.  What AT power (i assume from a melee AT) comes closest to this power?

The "compromise" is threefold.  First, the buffs to speed are conservative, not worth a lot on their own, but still significant.  Second, the resistances to slow and recharge debuffs are vague and would be set by the developers to likewise be subtle.  Third, I avoid suggesting a buff to recharge speed as that is already covered by the pool power, Hasten as well as various set bonuses.

 

In so far as what AT power comes closest, it might be elements from the ice armor power Wet Ice in its protections to knockback, hold, and slow.  I can't think of a power that simultaneously buffs speeds and resists debuffs to slow and recharge though.  The heart of my suggestion is that a power named "Acrobatics" should make a character more, you know, acrobatic.

Edited February 8, 2021 by cohRock

[siolfir]

2 hours ago, cohRock said:

I can't think of a power that simultaneously buffs speeds and resists debuffs to slow and recharge though

Quickness from Super Reflexes and its Electric Armor clone Lightning Reflexes buff run and fly speed while resisting slows.

What they don't offer is the jump height, jump speed, hold protection, or knockback protection part of your proposed changes, but they provide +20% recharge and don't cost any endurance.

[Purrfekshawn]

On 1/23/2021 at 10:44 PM, cohRock said:

Personally only one of my characters have chosen Acrobatics (fire/fire tank).

But why? U can score Immobilize protection from Combat Jumping power, knockback protection from Zephyr Blessing/other IO's those grant KB prot (usually 3're nuff to protect from most KB from what We know), other mez protection from Fire and Plasma shield? What do you need from Acrobatics at all?

 

[Galaxy Brain]

2 hours ago, Purrfekshawn said:

But why? U can score Immobilize protection from Combat Jumping power, knockback protection from Zephyr Blessing/other IO's those grant KB prot (usually 3're nuff to protect from most KB from what We know), other mez protection from Fire and Plasma shield? What do you need from Acrobatics at all?

 

Doesnt this further imply Acro needs love if IO's tek its jerb?

[SwitchFade]

56 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Doesnt this further imply Acro needs love if IO's tek its jerb?

I'll tek YOUR jerb 🤣

[SwitchFade]

3 hours ago, Purrfekshawn said:

But why? U can score Immobilize protection from Combat Jumping power, knockback protection from Zephyr Blessing/other IO's those grant KB prot (usually 3're nuff to protect from most KB from what We know), other mez protection from Fire and Plasma shield? What do you need from Acrobatics at all?

 

First, consider the SO crowd and balance point... Acro does have a purpose there, no io set to give KB protection, so CJ is the golden sauce .

 

Second, consider the blaster crowd... Pair acro with the ATO proc for +1 mag hold protection spammed in t1 and t2... You get really good hold protection built in.

 

Third, leap pool needs an addition power added to it in the form of a passive/expensive toggle that enhances acro in some way. Two power picks, better buffage from acro.

 

There, original acro is still good and can be improved on, al la burn out/afterburner

[cohRock]

8 hours ago, Purrfekshawn said:

But why? U can score Immobilize protection from Combat Jumping power, knockback protection from Zephyr Blessing/other IO's those grant KB prot (usually 3're nuff to protect from most KB from what We know), other mez protection from Fire and Plasma shield? What do you need from Acrobatics at all?

 

I already know the points you bring up.  That is why only one of my characters has Acrobatics.  I guess the answer to "But why?" is simple nostalgia.  I played long before sets were introduced, and the leaping pool Combat Jumping and Super Jump powers were pretty much standard on all my melee guys.  So anyone who still needed knockback protection would also take Acrobatics.  A few of my flying or Super Speed non-melee guys would take it as well, bypassing Super Jump for Jump Kick.  So it just felt right to give Acrobatics to at least one of my guys on Homecoming, and it was an expedient method for my fire/fire tank to not get knocked away from his own burn patch.

 

That said, once I had Acrobatics, I did think, "this power is a lame anachronism."  I got to thinking what would make it seem useful again without it becoming a "must have" for min-maxers.  The suggestion in the first post is my answer.

[cohRock]

5 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

First, consider the SO crowd and balance point... Acro does have a purpose there, no io set to give KB protection, so CJ is the golden sauce .

 

Second, consider the blaster crowd... Pair acro with the ATO proc for +1 mag hold protection spammed in t1 and t2... You get really good hold protection built in.

 

Third, leap pool needs an addition power added to it in the form of a passive/expensive toggle that enhances acro in some way. Two power picks, better buffage from acro.

 

There, original acro is still good and can be improved on, al la burn out/afterburner

Good points, thanks.  I might have an issue with the last one, which i set to red.  I would not favor a large speed increase in Acrobatics.  In fact my suggestion gives run speed only a 5% boost and other speeds a 10% boost.  (I seriously considered suggesting them all at 10%, though.)    The reason is, I want Acrobatics always on in missions, and in a lot of missions, such as caves with narrow passages, having too much speed is a negative for me.  I grin and bear being speed boosted by a kin, and I absolutely hate the Fool mystic fortune.  The latter not because of the slight decrease in accuracy, but the speed itself.  I'm not the only one either.  People with slow computers or internet connections, poor eyesight, or decreased hand coordination tend to find excess speed to be problematic.

[Grouchybeast]

57 minutes ago, cohRock said:

I grin and bear being speed boosted by a kin, and I absolutely hate the Fool mystic fortune.  The latter not because of the slight decrease in accuracy, but the speed itself.  I'm not the only one either.  People with slow computers or internet connections, poor eyesight, or decreased hand coordination tend to find excess speed to be problematic.

Just FYI, Null the Gull has an option to allow you to turn off speed buffs from other players.

[SwitchFade]

3 hours ago, cohRock said:

Good points, thanks.  I might have an issue with the last one, which i set to red.  I would not favor a large speed increase in Acrobatics.  In fact my suggestion gives run speed only a 5% boost and other speeds a 10% boost.  (I seriously considered suggesting them all at 10%, though.)    The reason is, I want Acrobatics always on in missions, and in a lot of missions, such as caves with narrow passages, having too much speed is a negative for me.  I grin and bear being speed boosted by a kin, and I absolutely hate the Fool mystic fortune.  The latter not because of the slight decrease in accuracy, but the speed itself.  I'm not the only one either.  People with slow computers or internet connections, poor eyesight, or decreased hand coordination tend to find excess speed to be problematic.

"à la" means, in the style of, or in the vein of...

 

So, like burn out and afterburner buff other powers, a new leap pool power would buff acro, was the example; not adding speed to it.

 

Not meaning add speed, which would be copying them.

[BrandX]

+Defense +1.88% All

+Speed +13.65% Fly/+35% Run & Jump

+Res (KB/Slow)

 

Basically Gymnastics without the +Recharge.

[Tigraine]

I took Acrobatics on exactly one character.  I needed to fill my last power slot, couldn't dip into any more pools, didn't have any enhancement slots to spare so needed a power I wouldn't care about adding slots to, had an END-heavy build and couldn't take anything critical to keep running, and basically just did not have a better choice.

 

It sits there on my bar unused.  It would be nice if the power actually mattered, and if there was a better reason for taking it than "no  better options" to train level 49.

[aethereal]

On 2/8/2021 at 8:30 PM, BrandX said:

+Defense +1.88% All

+Speed +13.65% Fly/+35% Run & Jump

+Res (KB/Slow)

 

Basically Gymnastics without the +Recharge.

I don't think we can offer another power in Leaping that gives +defense.  It'd be fine for power pools that currently don't offer +defense to offer +1.88% def-all (because you can already get 5 +def powers in pools, using all your pool choices).  But if you offer another +def power in a pool that already gives one, you allow people to hit all five LotG def spots plus get valuable improvements towards soft-cap plus free up a power pool choice, and that probably shifts the meta too much.  (So, a character who presently has CJ + Weave + two stealth powers + Maneuvers can drop Maneuvers, get Acrobatics, and also pick up Hasten -- or many other alterations depending on what their actual primary/secondary powersets allow).

 

Yes, you can already get two defense powers with Hover + Afterburner, but Afterburner can only -- when attacking -- mule a LotG, it can't also add 2% def-all, and hover is a less generally useful power than CJ at least for melee characters.

[BrandX]

8 hours ago, aethereal said:

I don't think we can offer another power in Leaping that gives +defense.  It'd be fine for power pools that currently don't offer +defense to offer +1.88% def-all (because you can already get 5 +def powers in pools, using all your pool choices).  But if you offer another +def power in a pool that already gives one, you allow people to hit all five LotG def spots plus get valuable improvements towards soft-cap plus free up a power pool choice, and that probably shifts the meta too much.  (So, a character who presently has CJ + Weave + two stealth powers + Maneuvers can drop Maneuvers, get Acrobatics, and also pick up Hasten -- or many other alterations depending on what their actual primary/secondary powersets allow).

 

Yes, you can already get two defense powers with Hover + Afterburner, but Afterburner can only -- when attacking -- mule a LotG, it can't also add 2% def-all, and hover is a less generally useful power than CJ at least for melee characters.

Put Acrobatics up to .39/sex end use (same as Maneuvers) and they'd actually be taking a slight hit in the amount of defense they get.

 

They also lose the team utility of leadership, for lots have a wasted KB Resist, and they still have to grab two other powers from Leaping and meh on being stuck grabbing Super Jump just for all that.  😛

[aethereal]

53 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Put Acrobatics up to .39/sex end use (same as Maneuvers) and they'd actually be taking a slight hit in the amount of defense they get.

 

They also lose the team utility of leadership, for lots have a wasted KB Resist, and they still have to grab two other powers from Leaping and meh on being stuck grabbing Super Jump just for all that.  😛

I mean, lots of people do get travel powers, still, and SJ is at least arguably the best travel power.  And all of those things pale compared to getting Hasten (unless you're crunched for a power to buy SJ with).

 

Or people who get one defense power in their primary/secondary (or who only care about getting four defense powers) can get Leaping ( CJ, SJ, Acrobatics), Speed (Hasten), Leadership (Maneuvers, Tactics or Assault if they want it), and Fighting (T1, Tough, Weave) instead of having to get Stealth instead of Leadership, because they need a pool with two defensive powers.  Or many other things.

 

We just shouldn't be taking already-desirable pools and adding defense powers into them.  That just sharpens the existing meta.

[cohRock]

On 2/8/2021 at 11:30 PM, BrandX said:

+Defense +1.88% All

+Speed +13.65% Fly/+35% Run & Jump

+Res (KB/Slow)

 

Basically Gymnastics without the +Recharge.

I finally have a character with Gymnastics.  He is a level 34 Dual Pistol / Tactical Arrow blaster named Shooty McShoot Shoot., and the data is taken from him.  The Acrobatics data is taken from Fiery Furry, a level 41 Fire/Fire tank.  I don't think level and archetype make a difference, but I've included that info in case it does.

 

                    Gymnastics  Acrobatics  Proposed Acro.
                    ----------  ----------  --------------
Endurance            0.26/sec    0.26/sec      0.26/sec
Knock Prot.            9           7              7
Knock Enhanceable                  2              2
Hold Prot.                         2              2
Hold Resist                       40%            40%
Defense                1.75
Recharge              20%
Run                   25%                        10%
Fly                   13.65%                     10%
Jump Height                                      10%
Jump Speed                                       10%
Rech. Resist          40%                        25%
Fly Resist            40%                        25%
Run Resist            40%                        25%

 

Note that where the powers overlap, I have kept Gymnastics at a higher level since it is a secondary and not a pool power.  The powers would still be quite complementary should a player choose to take both.  Note that the knock protection would end up very high, but this is the same situation a Stone armor player would be in with both Granite and Rooted active.  I don't know if the combined recharge and motion resistances would be out of line with existing design parameters, but the sum could be capped if so.  Two different numbers are given in game for Acrobatics hold resistance.  The other one is 67.81% which sounds both high and suspiciously precise.

[arcane]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:49 AM, Purrfekshawn said:

But why? U can score Immobilize protection from Combat Jumping power, knockback protection from Zephyr Blessing/other IO's those grant KB prot (usually 3're nuff to protect from most KB from what We know), other mez protection from Fire and Plasma shield? What do you need from Acrobatics at all?

 

Not saying it’s often ideal, but I have had a few times when I needed a couple more slots more than I needed more power picks and therefore skimped on the KB protection procs. It’s very rare, but yeah, that’s why I’ve picked Acrobatics a couple times outside of PvP characters that actually need it.

[Greycat]

On 3/4/2021 at 8:39 PM, BrandX said:

Put Acrobatics up to .39/sex end use

 

*immature snicker*

[Saiyajinzoningen]

I run acro semi regularly on my blaster/controller/defenders. Its much easier to get KB protection from a power or IO but acrobatics has one thing going for it mag+2 mez protection. I know its not much but every little bit helps. Id like to see it bumped up to +3.

[MTeague]

10 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

I run acro semi regularly on my blaster/controller/defenders. Its much easier to get KB protection from a power or IO but acrobatics has one thing going for it mag+2 mez protection. I know its not much but every little bit helps. Id like to see it bumped up to +3.

I could see that. 

I mean the Blaster ATO proc to grant status protection exists, sure. 

But easy would it be to maintain 3-4 stacks for an entiree map?

Compared to if you run acro, maybe you only need to maintain 1-2 stacks of that proc. 

 

Might be tough to fit in on my blasters, but you've got me at least considering it. 

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

 

Compared to if you run acro, maybe you only need to maintain 1-2 stacks of that proc. 

 

Might be tough to fit in on my blasters, but you've got me at least considering it. 

This. Run acro with the blaster ATO +1 mag proc in a t1 or t2 power that you spam as part of your chain. Try it. It's super-neat. Funny, everyone talks about arcane something or another.... When a blaster can acro/ATO...

[Starhammer]

I agree that I find it tremendously difficult to justify expending a slot on Acrobatics, even for a fire or dark tank that lacks KB Protection. I would love to see it made into something at least consistently useful. Unfortunately I just don't see a lot of other things "jumping" can do that the pool doesn't already.

As a balance issue, I'd love to see Acrobatics folded into Combat Jumping (or vice versa, Acrobatics is a better name). The benefits of both at around .32/sec. Combat Jumping is the other end of the spectrum from Acrobatics... Too good not to take unless you really need the slot for something else. With Double Jump, SJ has all the mobility you can ever need, so I don't see anything extra there that could take it's place. And a modest buff to run speed really isn't worth just not clicking on Ninja Run instead. There's already two decent attacks. Maybe a -defense/-tohit toggle aura, or 15 sec duration click aoe to represent bewildering your opponents with your movements? That would at least be interesting, and fill a niche that isn't everywhere else. Be a good place to use the Hamis nobody wants too.

[Judicator]

I think it'd be really cool if as a bonus Acrobatics gave you a second chance to avoid AoE and Ranged damage that hits you or maybe just that you take 20% less damage from those sources or something thematic like that.