Toughest/most survivable

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

Are we still talking about Hami here?

 

Well, in the end, there are only two baseline topics in CoH:
Hamidon, and Nemesis.

And since no one is talking about the size of the Nemesis, it must be about Hamidon 😉

 

[Mender Silos]

16 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

Well, in the end, there are only two baseline topics in CoH:
Hamidon, and Nemesis.

And since no one is talking about the size of the Nemesis, it must be about Hamidon 😉

 

*ahem*

[TemporalVileTerror]

We already know that Nemmy's ego is infinite, so there's no need to discuss it.

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, TemporalVileTerror said:

We already know that Nemmy's ego is infinite, so there's no need to discuss it.

I am going to kill Nemesis.  Before I do I will purchase a gravesite for him.  A Nemesis plot.

[Hyperstrike]

14 hours ago, Snarky said:

I am going to kill Nemesis.  Before I do I will purchase a gravesite for him.  A Nemesis plot.

 

NO PLOTS!  NOOOO PLOTS!

 

[OrionX]

On 3/7/2021 at 1:18 PM, Snarky said:

in a word.  horseshit.  Built out (which you specifically mentioned a built out character) my Dark/Dark will stand right beside a Rad or Bio and not have any issues.  My Dark/Invul Brute is guaranteed tougher than them.  and my Invul/Dark Tank?  Fuggedaboutit

 

My Dark/Dark Brute.  With no external buffs, incarnate powers, no Rune of protection (which he has) or any outside help.  Stone cold resist numbers 80.8% S/L, 53.77% Energy, 77.79% Neg, 74.03% Fire/Cold, 50.02% Toxic, and 85.16% Psi.  30-37% Defenses from I/O except Psi, ranged, and AoE, those are lower.  He has various T4 incarnate powers.  He has Rune of protection, he carries a moderate amount of purple and orange inspirations, and he has +107.5% global recharge before haste or either of his two Force Feedback proc attacks add to that.  Which really helps bring Dark Regeneration (11 second rech stone cold, 6-8 second with personal buffs) up and give back a full health bar. Also, Does Rad or Bio have stealth or TWO mezz auras to deal with trash lts and minions?  Because Dark Armor does.  And it works.  (I use a kismet and have purples etc for global accuracy, those things hit!)  Oh, and probably finally Dark/Dark is constantly debuffing the tohit on mobs.  

 

Rad and Bio play by the rules Def>Res>heal.  Dark/Dark says "Stealth>Mezze>Def>tohit debuff>Res>Heal, and oh, if it gets to heal 'best in game'"

 

Oh, one last thing.  Dark Armor has an incredibly powerful self rez with a huge stun and untouchable.  Try bouncing back like that on a Rad or Bio!

 

Maybe Rad or Bio is 'tougher' than this.  But you are going to have a hard sell telling me it is 'observably tougher' Because the Dark/Dark Brute is going to stand there and take whatever the Rad or Bio takes.

 

Conversely, with the exception of Psi (very rare damage type) a Dark/Invulnerable Brute WILL be 'noticeably tougher' than a rad or Bio Brute.  I run the Dark/Dark as a main not because it is tougher.  I like the strange tactics and strategies of Dark/Dark, the damage aura, the stealth and the two mezze auras.

Totally agree with Snarky.  Dark/Dark is very tough to kill for the reasons he/she said. Many layers of protection, Res, Def, Great heal, 2 Mez -only need one but I use 2 on tank.  WIth that being said I like my Dark/Dark tank even more. x/ele is by far my second favorite all rounder.  This is not a complaint to Snarky but...perople we have the best community in gaming.  When we talk about what is bes please SHARE the love and show those builds 🙂  - notr claiming mine are the beast at all but these work well for my playstyle. After being on homecomming since it started I still cant figure out how to export the entire build and mak it look all nice and formattred so I leave you wityh the link form.

 

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1440&c=647&a=1294&f=HEX&dc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

 

 

 

[OrionX]

So much also gets down to how good you are at the game/powerset/AT.  I've seen people with so many different power combinations and ATs all kick ass.

IMO the biggest learning curve is /Bio.  I really use it only on Stalkers and Sentys, because I like the +25% damage boost that helps those toons out.

Why don't I use /Bio for a great defensive mechanism...because whenever I analyze it in Mids it always looks kinda "Meh"...but mostly because "I" suck at playing it not because of the set itself.

I NEEDE A /BIO Mentor!!!!!  So if anybody can point me to a good thread on how to play it I'm perfectly willing to give it another try.

Also one more question.  Since Brutes fury can jack up your damage bonus, does the 25% /Bio bonus make a noticable difference in PVE team gameplay?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hjarki]

I'd argue Staff/Radiation is unmatched.

 

Radiation has more Toxic than Psi resist (having both) with enough armor toggles to slot Impervium all over the place. Radiation doesn't have a true 'hole', but it's weak against two of the least-used damage types (Negative and Cold). Radiation has one of the few useable ultimates since it doesn't deliver a full crash. Radiation has End Drain resist so you can't get de-toggled. It provides decent regen and recovery. Because it has no innate defenses, that frees you to build for positionals rather than typed. Because it's strong across-the-board on resists, you can essentially ignore AoE Defense.

 

Staff has a LotG mule that also allows you to pump your Melee Defense to ridiculous heights to prevent cascading Defense failure. It also has a maneuver that boosts your resists by 10% across-the-board. It has Knockdown AE that both accelerates the rest of your build and keeps enemies from attacking. Staff is also the longest range set, so there's a definite quality-of-life element there when you're faced with hordes of ranged attackers who refuse to cluster.

 

[Snarky]

10 hours ago, OrionX said:

Totally agree with Snarky.  Dark/Dark is very tough to kill for the reasons he/she said. Many layers of protection, Res, Def, Great heal, 2 Mez -only need one but I use 2 on tank.  WIth that being said I like my Dark/Dark tank even more. x/ele is by far my second favorite all rounder.  This is not a complaint to Snarky but...perople we have the best community in gaming.  When we talk about what is bes please SHARE the love and show those builds 🙂  - notr claiming mine are the beast at all but these work well for my playstyle. After being on homecomming since it started I still cant figure out how to export the entire build and mak it look all nice and formattred so I leave you wityh the link form.

 

 

 

I have shared my dark/dark build so many times I thought I might get a warning from the mods about spam.  But, here ya go....

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Snarky 2.2: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(3), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Hct-Acc/Rchg(5), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Hct-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), GldArm-3defTpProc(11)
Level 2: Death Shroud -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(15)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 6: Shadow Maul -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(21), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Arm-Acc/Rchg(23), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Arm-Dam%(25)
Level 8: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(27), UnbGrd-Max HP%(29)
Level 12: Siphon Life -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury%(33)
Level 14: Arcane Bolt -- SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(A)
Level 16: Dark Regeneration -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(33), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(33), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(34), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(36), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 20: Cloak of Darkness -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(37), Rct-ResDam%(37), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(37)
Level 22: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(39), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(39), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(42)
Level 28: Cloak of Fear -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(39)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(45)
Level 35: Oppressive Gloom -- HO:Endo(A)
Level 38: Soul Tentacles -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(45), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(45), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(46), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(46), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(46)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(48), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Rgn-Knock%(50)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 47: Rune of Protection -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 49: Soul Transfer -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Fury 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(17), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
------------

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[Snarky]

10 hours ago, OrionX said:

So much also gets down to how good you are at the game/powerset/AT.  I've seen people with so many different power combinations and ATs all kick ass.

IMO the biggest learning curve is /Bio.  I really use it only on Stalkers and Sentys, because I like the +25% damage boost that helps those toons out.

Why don't I use /Bio for a great defensive mechanism...because whenever I analyze it in Mids it always looks kinda "Meh"...but mostly because "I" suck at playing it not because of the set itself.

I NEEDE A /BIO Mentor!!!!!  So if anybody can point me to a good thread on how to play it I'm perfectly willing to give it another try.

Also one more question.  Since Brutes fury can jack up your damage bonus, does the 25% /Bio bonus make a noticable difference in PVE team gameplay?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

I do not play bio.  On my Dark/Dark main Brute I started with Melee Hybrid.  Been playing him a while lol.  So I just casually T4d Hybrid Assault.  Depending on the run I will either choose tanky, or if not needed, more damage.  More damage is always a great option, once your build (for that particular TF, farm / Incarnate Trial ) is set to go, squeezing more damage out is the next logical step.  

 

Again, never played Bio, but the option to get a constant red inspiration going is not a bad thing....

Edited March 11, 2021 by Snarky

[StriderIV]

15 hours ago, Hjarki said:

I'd argue Staff/Radiation is unmatched.

 

Radiation has more Toxic than Psi resist (having both) with enough armor toggles to slot Impervium all over the place. Radiation doesn't have a true 'hole', but it's weak against two of the least-used damage types (Negative and Cold). Radiation has one of the few useable ultimates since it doesn't deliver a full crash. Radiation has End Drain resist so you can't get de-toggled. It provides decent regen and recovery. Because it has no innate defenses, that frees you to build for positionals rather than typed. Because it's strong across-the-board on resists, you can essentially ignore AoE Defense.

 

Staff has a LotG mule that also allows you to pump your Melee Defense to ridiculous heights to prevent cascading Defense failure. It also has a maneuver that boosts your resists by 10% across-the-board. It has Knockdown AE that both accelerates the rest of your build and keeps enemies from attacking. Staff is also the longest range set, so there's a definite quality-of-life element there when you're faced with hordes of ranged attackers who refuse to cluster.

 

+1 to all these points. I love my Dark Armor/Staff Tanker, and I just 50’d a Psi Melee/Rad Armor Brute. Now you have me wanting to combine the two 😂

[ninja surprise]

On 3/10/2021 at 7:11 AM, OrionX said:

Why don't I use /Bio for a great defensive mechanism...because whenever I analyze it in Mids it always looks kinda "Meh"...but mostly because "I" suck at playing it not because of the set itself.

I NEEDE A /BIO Mentor!!!!!  So if anybody can point me to a good thread on how to play it I'm perfectly willing to give it another try.

 

That's the weird thing about Bio, it looks like crap in Mids but then does quite well in the game, as long as you click the clickies in time. Bio's biggest weakness is the lack of Slow resist, and then the lack of any defense debuff resist. But if you can keep healing then the lack of any defense whatsoever doesn't matter.

This is a Stone Melee / Bio Brute I'm building up right now. Lots of recharge without Hasten, and as much slow resist as possible from the Winter sets. Winds up with decent defense and some resistances. Expensive though.

Bio technique is:

Activate Ablative Carapace just about whenever it's up. It'll give you about half your hitpoints as an Absorb shield and a big regen boost.

Hit DNA Siphon whenever you're low on HP or End. It's like some insane psycho combined Dark Regen + Dark Consumption into the best self-heal ever.

Use Parasitic Aura whenever it's up and you're in the middle of a big spawn. Another giant Absorb, regen, and recovery buff that'll keep you alive when you shouldn't be.

Between DNA Siphon and Parasitic Aura you won't need Efficient Adaptation, so you can flip between Offensive and Defensive depending on the enemies. Efficient can be saved for low-level task forces and such.

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.2.19
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Fightint Dirty: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Stone Melee
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery

Hero Profile: 
------------
Level 1:    Stone Fist            KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), KntCmb-Knock%(3), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(7)
Level 1:    Hardened Carapace        RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(7), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(9), RctArm-EndRdx/Rchg(11), GldArm-3defTpProc(11)
Level 2:    Inexhaustible            PwrTrns-+Heal(A), PrfShf-End%(13)
Level 4:    Environmental Modification        LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(15), Rct-ResDam%(15)
Level 6:    Stone Mallet            SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(17), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(21)
Level 8:    Heavy Mallet            SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(34), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(34)
Level 10:    Adaptation    
Level 12:    Fault                AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(A), AbsAmz-Stun(27), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(27), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(29), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(29), FrcFdb-Rechg%(31)
Level 14:    Combat Jumping            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16:    Ablative Carapace        Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(31), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(46), Pnc-Heal(50)
Level 18:    Seismic Smash           SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury%(25)
Level 20:    Evolving Armor            Ags-ResDam(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(34)
Level 22:    Mystic Flight            WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 24:    Boxing                Empty(A)
Level 26:    Hurl Boulder            SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(37)
Level 28:    DNA Siphon            SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(40)
Level 30:    Tough                RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(40), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(40), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 32:    Tremor                Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Arm-Dam%(43)
Level 35:    Genetic Contamination        Erd-Dmg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Erd-Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 38:    Parasitic Aura            Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(45), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(46), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(46), Pnc-Heal(48)
Level 41:    Weave                LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 44:    Stone Prison            Acc-I(A)
Level 47:    Quick Sand            RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49:    Stalagmites            SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 1:    Brawl                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Dash        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Slide        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Quick        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Rush        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Prestige Power Surge        Empty(A)
Level 1:    Fury    
Level 1:    Sprint                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Rest                Empty(A)
Level 4:    Ninja Run    
Level 2:    Swift                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Health                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Hurdle                Empty(A)
Level 2:    Stamina                PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(13)
Level 10:    Defensive Adaptation    
Level 10:    Efficient Adaptation    
Level 10:    Offensive Adaptation    
------------

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1478&c=682&a=1364&f=HEX&dc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

 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by ninja surprise

[Sovera]

The problem I see with these arguments usually lays that 'my X is super survivable' does not say against what. Heck, Scrappers are survivable. Throwing ourselves at a LGTF is not exactly difficult. It's all bland energy, smash, and some small lethal from those few dribbles that do sword attacks. Without debuffs what is dangerous about it? Arachnos aren't particularly hard if not getting blinded (Focused Accuracy is a near have-to-pick) or recovery debuffed. But they suffer from being a varied faction. Just a few doing hard debuffs is not complicated to deal with if the rest are doing bland attacks.

 

Like Carnies. Only some do psi, the rest are basic fire, smash, etc. As long as having high enough defense to avoid their death and/or recovery debuff protection they are not difficult. On the other hand the... seers, I think they are, are all psi, and the way they ignore defense they don't seem to be tagged as Ranged so without specific psi defenses they will hurt, bad, especially when we get a full spawn of them unleashing the alpha.

 

 

Where problems come is anything that debuffs. Cimerora, most of DA, what ever other faction like the bots we find in Tina's arc that also do -defense. That stuff will eat through most 'tough' characters. Dark Armor is propped up heavily by Dark Regen, Bio by Ablative, but even Dark Regen on a 15 second timer is NOT enough to survive jumping into a Cimerora pack of +4x8 enemies debuffing defense deep into the negatives. 15 seconds just won't recharge fast enough.

 

That's mostly my reaction to 'oh yeah, Bio is super tough'. Against what? Council? Rikti? My experience with it is surviving the easy content and then scampering against debuffers to let the debuffs expire before coming back to kill the rest. On a Tanker with bigger numbers and a solid damage secondary I can see Ablative propping things up until most things are dead as long as the minions are swiftly dealt with. But I'm not sure how it deals with things like the cyst packs who both strip defense and then hit at a Bio's weak energy/negative resists.

 

Oppressive Gloom neutering minions helps.

Being in a full team that unleashes a flood of AoEs helps.

Staggering Judgements helps.

Playing in a team reduces the risk in 70% since everything dies in seconds.

[Hyperstrike]

On 3/8/2021 at 12:56 PM, Infinitum said:

Are we still talking about Hami here?

Maybe?

 

[StriderIV]

16 hours ago, Sovera said:

The problem I see with these arguments usually lays that 'my X is super survivable' does not say against what. Heck, Scrappers are survivable. Throwing ourselves at a LGTF is not exactly difficult. It's all bland energy, smash, and some small lethal from those few dribbles that do sword attacks. Without debuffs what is dangerous about it? Arachnos aren't particularly hard if not getting blinded (Focused Accuracy is a near have-to-pick) or recovery debuffed. But they suffer from being a varied faction. Just a few doing hard debuffs is not complicated to deal with if the rest are doing bland attacks.

 

Like Carnies. Only some do psi, the rest are basic fire, smash, etc. As long as having high enough defense to avoid their death and/or recovery debuff protection they are not difficult. On the other hand the... seers, I think they are, are all psi, and the way they ignore defense they don't seem to be tagged as Ranged so without specific psi defenses they will hurt, bad, especially when we get a full spawn of them unleashing the alpha.

 

 

Where problems come is anything that debuffs. Cimerora, most of DA, what ever other faction like the bots we find in Tina's arc that also do -defense. That stuff will eat through most 'tough' characters. Dark Armor is propped up heavily by Dark Regen, Bio by Ablative, but even Dark Regen on a 15 second timer is NOT enough to survive jumping into a Cimerora pack of +4x8 enemies debuffing defense deep into the negatives. 15 seconds just won't recharge fast enough.

 

That's mostly my reaction to 'oh yeah, Bio is super tough'. Against what? Council? Rikti? My experience with it is surviving the easy content and then scampering against debuffers to let the debuffs expire before coming back to kill the rest. On a Tanker with bigger numbers and a solid damage secondary I can see Ablative propping things up until most things are dead as long as the minions are swiftly dealt with. But I'm not sure how it deals with things like the cyst packs who both strip defense and then hit at a Bio's weak energy/negative resists.

 

Oppressive Gloom neutering minions helps.

Being in a full team that unleashes a flood of AoEs helps.

Staggering Judgements helps.

Playing in a team reduces the risk in 70% since everything dies in seconds.

I agree with all these points (even though I really like both DA and Bio). In any case, which sets do you think stand up most comfortably against it all? Standard Invuln framework? Fire (no bias of course 😉 , and they can’t kill you if they’re dead, right?)? Maybe Rad, since it’s only really gaping hole is Cold?

[Sovera]

4 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

I agree with all these points (even though I really like both DA and Bio). In any case, which sets do you think stand up most comfortably against it all? Standard Invuln framework? Fire (no bias of course 😉 , and they can’t kill you if they’re dead, right?)? Maybe Rad, since it’s only really gaping hole is Cold?

 

With the caveat that anything is survivable with experience (running away if too debuffed, killing problematic mobs first, killing everything before they kill us), and anything is survivable in a team since everything is dead in seconds, then Invulnerable or Shield. Ice is also very good at staying alive though I don't play it myself.

 

Stone is the most survivable, but it's masochism. I know there are stone lovers out there and I respect your life choices, but I won't tell new players to go stretch on a rack while someone dressed in leather whips them.

 

😜

 

You're still seeking the most strong best perfect super tank, Strider, and that's fruitless. It depends on how you play, how wary you are. At some point everyone will die because of this or that. Some combos can AFK in the middle of combat and not care (invuln), some need to use clickies to survive (rad), others will kill before being killed (fire).

 

If you're having fun with your Dark then carry on. You'll be fine.

[Erratic1]

 

There is this over in the Tanker forum:

 

 

However I am wary of looking at defensive sets in isolation as offensive sets can offer opportunities for mitigation which are meaningful.

[StriderIV]

9 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

With the caveat that anything is survivable with experience (running away if too debuffed, killing problematic mobs first, killing everything before they kill us), and anything is survivable in a team since everything is dead in seconds, then Invulnerable or Shield. Ice is also very good at staying alive though I don't play it myself.

 

Stone is the most survivable, but it's masochism. I know there are stone lovers out there and I respect your life choices, but I won't tell new players to go stretch on a rack while someone dressed in leather whips them.

 

😜

 

You're still seeking the most strong best perfect super tank, Strider, and that's fruitless. It depends on how you play, how wary you are. At some point everyone will die because of this or that. Some combos can AFK in the middle of combat and not care (invuln), some need to use clickies to survive (rad), others will kill before being killed (fire).

 

If you're having fun with your Dark then carry on. You'll be fine.

Oh for sure, just always interested in what might succeed in different arenas in the game! Dark is fun nonetheless. If we were just talking about Hami Raids, it and Regen would be kings haha. I do agree that Invuln and Shield do seem the most well rounded, in my experience.

 

I also do think I have it in me to run a Stone tanker 😂😂😂

Edited March 14, 2021 by StriderIV

[SaintD]

On 3/14/2021 at 8:20 AM, Sovera said:

Where problems come is anything that debuffs. Cimerora, most of DA, what ever other faction like the bots we find in Tina's arc that also do -defense. That stuff will eat through most 'tough' characters. Dark Armor is propped up heavily by Dark Regen, Bio by Ablative, but even Dark Regen on a 15 second timer is NOT enough to survive jumping into a Cimerora pack of +4x8 enemies debuffing defense deep into the negatives. 15 seconds just won't recharge fast enough.

I have only ever done Cimerora with two Willpower characters. One a Brute, the other a Scrapper. I literally had no clue they were supposed to be in any way difficult because I wasn't ever doing more than Frankenslotting I/O's on Live, and never had enough Defense to notice it getting ripped off immediately by the Cimerorans anyway.

I actually found them easier and fought them preferentially, since Smash/Lethal resist and a sack of healing was my entire game plan. *LOL*

[Doomguide2005]

On 3/14/2021 at 1:02 PM, Erratic1 said:

 

There is this over in the Tanker forum:

 

 

However I am wary of looking at defensive sets in isolation as offensive sets can offer opportunities for mitigation which are meaningful.

This (which GB would be the first to admit).

 

     That said I find those tall columns of white (SR and Shield) interesting and telling.  It points towards a toughness independent of mob type which tends to point towards an independence from incoming damage type.  And that goes to what toughness (a subjective thing) means for me --> Ability to enter combat with anything at anytime.  The ability to walk into a random mission where the foe could be anything in CoX and survive.  I don't find it surprising those are defense sets and more importantly defense sets with large amounts DDR.

[Erratic1]

11 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

This (which GB would be the first to admit).

 

     That said I find those tall columns of white (SR and Shield) interesting and telling.  It points towards a toughness independent of mob type which tends to point towards an independence from incoming damage type.  And that goes to what toughness (a subjective thing) means for me --> Ability to enter combat with anything at anytime.  The ability to walk into a random mission where the foe could be anything in CoX and survive.  I don't find it surprising those are defense sets and more importantly defense sets with large amounts DDR.

 

Invulnerability and Bio in Defensive stance arguably do at least as well (if not better).

[Doomguide2005]

14 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Invulnerability and Bio in Defensive stance arguably do at least as well (if not better).

Well unless they are Carnies or um Carnies.  But the chart doesn't cover two rather important things (and other things no doubt covered thoroughly in the Tanker section).  1) those, iirc, are SO only builds, no IOs or sets and, as you mentioned earlier, 2) don't take into account the non-armor set in the pairing and its contribution to survival.  Both of those factors heavily influence mitigation and survival of the character.  That doesn't even touch the player knowledge, skill and familiarity with the set and character which would greatly change things as well.

[Erratic1]

4 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Well unless they are Carnies or um Carnies.  But the chart doesn't cover two rather important things (and other things no doubt covered thoroughly in the Tanker section).  1) those, iirc, are SO only builds, no IOs or sets and, as you mentioned earlier, 2) don't take into account the non-armor set in the pairing and its contribution to survival.  Both of those factors heavily influence mitigation and survival of the character.  That doesn't even touch the player knowledge, skill and familiarity with the set and character which would greatly change things as well.

Yeah but even Granite dunes stumbles on Carnies. And Shield does not do great against Malta. And it should be noted best performance is green, which Invulnerability and Bio Defensive stance have and both Shield and SR lack.

 

But yeah, the view is a limited one.

[Snarky]

On 3/13/2021 at 4:20 PM, Sovera said:

Where problems come is anything that debuffs. Cimerora, most of DA, what ever other faction like the bots we find in Tina's arc that also do -defense. That stuff will eat through most 'tough' characters. Dark Armor is propped up heavily by Dark Regen, Bio by Ablative, but even Dark Regen on a 15 second timer is NOT enough to survive jumping into a Cimerora pack of +4x8 enemies debuffing defense deep into the negatives. 15 seconds just won't recharge fast enough.

 

I agree that Cims Debuff Defense really fast on Dark.  No Debuff Resistance.  Heck, My dark isnt even softcapped to anything.  He has great resistance though.  And, if we are talking about +4/x8 Cim, which lets get real, we are.  Then, they will chew the defense off Dark armor in the first few seconds.  My Dark Regen is on a 9 sec pop.  I do not carry green inspirations.  I do not drop even against mountains of +4/x8, including the mountaintop fight with Cims and Warshades and turtles.  Part of this is using Hybrid Melee and Rune of Protection smartlky.  But they really just preserve inspirations.  I think one of the real keys is running the fear and stun toggles off dark all the time.  and GLOBAL accuracy.  That stun toggle is crap until you enhance accuracy a lot.  Then....it will make a +4 wander around like a drunk.  Others will be cowering.  The greatest danger for me in that fight are the squids that hang out of my PB range and take shots.  If someone is not dealing with them I need to wander over and take the fight to them.  As their attacks slow that 9 seconds becomes a short time, not an eternity.

 

The greatest challenge in normal combat I faced recently was in a Q in caves.  There were a LOT of Rularuu packed into some intersection and I was solo looking for a glowie.  I decided to clear the intersection for those following. They ate my cookies.  twice.  It was disheartening lol.  

[Doomguide2005]

13 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

Yeah but even Granite dunes stumbles on Carnies. And Shield does not do great against Malta. And it should be noted best performance is green, which Invulnerability and Bio Defensive stance have and both Shield and SR lack.

 

But yeah, the view is a limited one.

Definitely.  My thought was more to the lack low points or high points in their survival/mitigation the chart points to.  They (SR and Shield) are both safely outdone by multiple armors for survival and likewise don't suffer as much in their valleys.  When I open the random door as Bio I have to ascertain quickly what and who I'm facing as it might make a huge difference in what I do next.  With Shield and SR it matters not much (DE, Rularuu, Vanguard Sword,  etc., being the Achilles which aren't tested above).  I knew, for example, my scrapper was getting to be a tough MF when I realized many issues back (IO sets yes, Incarnates not yet) I was just jumping into the mobs without looking for the AV that might be in there (Mender Silos TF).  Didn't matter if an AV was there, didn't matter if my SG mates were there, none of it mattered.  I was certain I would survive, definitely survive long enough to get away if needed.