Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (Build 1)

[Tigraine]

3 minutes ago, Macchiato said:

 

Infiltration does not use the animations but ... you realize you can literally just change your stance to Ninja run anyway without the power, right? It's on a costume-by-costume basis too, so any casual outfits you may have wouldn't be affected by hunching over, ready to ninja sprint everywhere.

Not everyone wants to be in that stance 100% of the time though; just when in combat or actually running.

[agentx5]

3 minutes ago, Macchiato said:

 

Infiltration does not use the animations but ... you realize you can literally just change your stance to Ninja run anyway without the power, right? It's on a costume-by-costume basis too, so any casual outfits you may have wouldn't be affected by hunching over, ready to ninja sprint everywhere.

 

No. Where the heck do you do that?  Was this recently added or something? And does it stop the annoying grunting sounds made whenever you hit jump?

[CaptainLupis]

1 minute ago, agentx5 said:

 

No. Where the heck do you do that?  Was this recently added or something? And does it stop the annoying grunting sounds made whenever you hit jump?

At a tailor, I think it's under inherent powers.

[Macchiato]

Just now, agentx5 said:

 

No. Where the heck do you do that?  Was this recently added or something? And does it stop the annoying grunting sounds made whenever you hit jump?

 

It was added in the previous Issue, so yeah, kind of recent. It's on the Live build, you just go to the tailor and select it from a drop down in one of the power coloration pages. I forget which one - Inherent or Epic.

 

2 minutes ago, Tigraine said:

Not everyone wants to be in that stance 100% of the time though; just when in combat or actually running.

Well, yeah, but when you have Ninja Run on, you're stuck in that pose anyway. It's not like there's a huge difference at the moment.

[Hew]

1 hour ago, Cidri said:

If the new version of Afterburner didn't exist, the flight modifications would be almost purely beneficial. But because it exists but isn't perma, it seems to be a nerf. I actually think many flight aficionados would have a better gut feeling about the changes if the proposed new Afterburner wasn't there.

People sometimes get massively hung up on stupid things like names, and can't see beyond the superficial some times.

 

 

[GM Lines]

3 minutes ago, agentx5 said:

 

No. Where the heck do you do that?  Was this recently added or something? And does it stop the annoying grunting sounds made whenever you hit jump?

 

Just tested, Infiltration + Inherent Ninja Stance won't have the jump "hup!" sounds. Infiltration + Normal stance does have them.

 

Infiltration + Ninja Run is also an option.

[Tigraine]

9 minutes ago, CaptainLupis said:

This has possibly been addressed already, as I haven't read through the full thread, but on test right now my bind still toggles betweem hover/fly and sj/cj as it always did, it doesn't turn both on, so you should be fine.

 

For some characters, I've used some complicated keybind files to toggle between hover/fly or switching them off, while also swapping costumes.  With two keys, I could go from any state to any desired state.  These do not work now that the powers are not mutually exclusive.  So for complex setups, it doesn't work.

For most of my characters, I just had keys assigned to the Hover and Fly powers, no macros needed, and I could just hit one or the other to turn them on as needed, and rely on them toggling the other off, or still would only need to hit one to have neither on and land on the ground.  It was an easy toggle from travel to combat to being on the ground.  That will no longer work either, so it doesn't work for the simple setups.  And I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, just from my experience, many if not most players don't use macros, and just want a simple setup.

[Tigraine]

4 minutes ago, Macchiato said:

Well, yeah, but when you have Ninja Run on, you're stuck in that pose anyway. It's not like there's a huge difference at the moment.

 

But you can toggle Ninja Run off when you don't want it.  Short of doubling up all your costumes with ninja stance/non ninja stance versions, you can't toggle off the stance.  And even if you did that, it would effectively be on a 15s cooldown.

[agentx5]

1 minute ago, GM Lines said:

 

Just tested, Infiltration + Inherent Ninja Stance won't have the jump "hup!" sounds. Infiltration + Normal stance does have them.

 

Infiltration + Ninja Run is also an option.

 

Good to know!  Will have to change this in the tailor on a few characters like Sabra Raja in the images above.

 

1 minute ago, Hew said:

People sometimes get massively hung up on stupid things like names, and can't see beyond the superficial some times.

 

True that, it's human.  For example, everything I wanted in a cyborg hero character could be found in the Arachnos Soldier.  I just flat out ignore the "Arachnos" part of it and he's simply a soldier with no logos or anything having to do with Arachnos.  Good team buffs, good debuffs, and decent damage & toughness.  Often times I could care less about the name of a power, and more about how it appears or sounds to myself & others.  A shotgun power could be called Power Puff Unicorn Blaster Canon and I wouldn't care as long as it looked and sounded correctly in-game.

[Macchiato]

1 minute ago, Tigraine said:

 

But you can toggle Ninja Run off when you don't want it.  Short of doubling up all your costumes with ninja stance/non ninja stance versions, you can't toggle off the stance.  And even if you did that, it would effectively be on a 15s cooldown.

There is also the workaround of using Athletic Run or Walk, or even Beast Run and Slide. You can overrule stances, sprints and certain powers have priority over them. The only time I could really think of needing that degree of control/customization is in roleplay and there are ways to fiddle with it.

[Sovera]

49 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

But it's a lot better than it was, it cant be perma because it wouldn't balance well. Eventually the others come back to earth.

Its not a nerf when you can go at live AB speeds with just fly - and then AB makes that faster in bursts.

 

90% of the time the .9 mi AB will give you will get you where you need to go.

 

In the shard is the one zone I can think of it may not, but fly still has the advantage there.

People need to stop saying we can go at Fly + old AB speeds with just new Fly. We COULD if we dedicate slots to Fly. And not everyone has the slots for such a niche endeavor. Without those slots its just 61mph.

 

What we DO get is faster speeds that old Fly + AB with Fly + EM (from 72mph to 87 mph) then further pushed to 102mph with build in new AB.

[Tigraine]

13 hours ago, Jimmy said:

That's the end of it - if you continue clogging up the thread with posts about this same concern, they will be removed. Allow others to post their feedback without the noise.

 

@Jimmy Will you issue the same warning to those on the other side of the argument who have been "clogging up the thread" equally if not even more so?

[Macchiato]

13 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

LIVE PROD	Flight Speed	Ranged Defense	BETA	Flight Speed	Ranged Defense	FS Delta	RD Delta
Hover	29.95	31.42	Hover	30.16	31.42	0.70%	0.00%
Fly	58.63	28.50	Fly	62.41	28.50	6.45%	0.00%
Afterburner	30.16	41.10	Evasive Maneuvers	30.16	41.1	0.00%	0.00%
Hover+Afterburner	29.95	44.02	Hover+EvaMan	51.64	44.02	72.42%	0.00%
Fly+Afterburner	72.95	41.10	Fly+EvaMan	83.89	41.10	15.00%	0.00%
			Hover+Fly	62.41	31.42
			Hover+Fly+EvaMan	83.89	44.02
			Fly+Afterburner	79.22	28.50	8.59%	-30.66%
			Fly+EvaMan+AB	102.27	41.10	28.67%	0.00%
			Hover+Fly+EvaMan+AB	102.27	44.02	28.67%	6.63%

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nxcWqFYZUTLnBXeYklkWuSwMkRNXFj4-3pNegpfWrlo/edit?usp=sharing

 

Bumping this spreadsheet up for relevance to the above posts.

 

10mph behind Fly+Afterburner with a single power is nothing to sneeze at given the free enh slot could cover the gap easily - let alone the fact that once this goes live, builds with Afterburner convert to having Evasive Maneuvers anyway. At which point, Fly+Eva hits 11mph over Fly+AB.

 

And of course, NuAfterburner is free. Fly+NuAB outstrips current Fly+AB by 7mph.

Fly+Eva+NuAB? Forget about it, a burst of 30mph over what we had.

Etc, etc.

 

Arguing that we don't funtionally get the numbers of old Fly+AB with the same investment is a little absolutist and has been covered again, and again, and again in this thread, it's just splitting hairs for the sake of complaining at this point. The horse is dead, please let's move on.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Macchiato

[Myrmidon]

9 minutes ago, Sovera said:

People need to stop saying we can go at Fly + old AB speeds with just new Fly. We COULD if we dedicate slots to Fly. And not everyone has the slots for such a niche endeavor. Without those slots its just 61mph.

 

What we DO get is faster speeds that old Fly + AB with Fly + EM (from 72mph to 87 mph) then further pushed to 102mph with build in new AB.

Agreed. This alone could have saved us 16 of the last 19 pages.

[Arcanum]

I'm borrowing this spreadsheet from @Bopper to help list out the detailed numbers for those who have questions/are concerned regarding the Flight Speed changes.

You can checkout his full post here.
 

Flight Pool (Fly, Hover, and Evasive Maneuvers):

 

HC Live:

 

 

Page 2:

 

I understand there are other concerns regarding the change. However, for those interested in the numbers, there they are.

Also, for those who dislike numbers and appreciate more of an artistic approach, here's an excellent visual diagram from @Lines
 

[CaptainLupis]

53 minutes ago, Tigraine said:

 

For some characters, I've used some complicated keybind files to toggle between hover/fly or switching them off, while also swapping costumes.  With two keys, I could go from any state to any desired state.  These do not work now that the powers are not mutually exclusive.  So for complex setups, it doesn't work.

For most of my characters, I just had keys assigned to the Hover and Fly powers, no macros needed, and I could just hit one or the other to turn them on as needed, and rely on them toggling the other off, or still would only need to hit one to have neither on and land on the ground.  It was an easy toggle from travel to combat to being on the ground.  That will no longer work either, so it doesn't work for the simple setups.  And I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, just from my experience, many if not most players don't use macros, and just want a simple setup.

Maybe, but /bind x "powexec_name fly$$powexec_name hover" is hardly difficult for the majority of the player base I'd suspect.

[CaptainLupis]

Ok, testing out group fly on my bots MM flying around atlas and I decided to grab the exploration badges for something to do. Anyway I went into the vanguard base with GF on and 2 of the bots got stuck in it after I left, they were moving back and forward in a straight line until I turned GF off when they dropped below street level (as seen from outside with one of them targetted) at which point they were able to exit the building. Not exactly game breaking but thought I should mention it anyway.

 

Edit tried it again and this time one of the drones (again as seen from being targeted) got stuck and it seemed to be banding around between other buildings, then running around underground until it got to the road and the resummoned itself by me on top of the globe. It was actually quite amusing to watch.

 

Edit 2: Ran them through a mission in a lab map vs council and they were bouncing around all over the place. Usually zipping backwards and forwards in straight lines and then at points appearing somewhere completely random. Most of them couldn't follow me up the lift until GF was turned off either.

Edited March 15, 2021 by CaptainLupis

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

People need to stop saying we can go at Fly + old AB speeds with just new Fly. We COULD if we dedicate slots to Fly. And not everyone has the slots for such a niche endeavor. Without those slots its just 61mph.

 

What we DO get is faster speeds that old Fly + AB with Fly + EM (from 72mph to 87 mph) then further pushed to 102mph with build in new AB.

Yeah, but you can technically do that if you wanted to.

 

And I started stating the part about beta fly+EvM > live Fly+ab on page 3

 

55 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

Agreed. This alone could have saved us 16 of the last 19 pages.

I tried I tried.  lol.  Started on page 3.

[Jacktar]

Hi guys, am not sure if the following is just nonsense, so if it is I fall back on a recent forum poll to find out the oldest player in which I came runner up👨🏻‍🦳

 

In the patch notes where it details the stealth changes it states that the Stealth pool is now considered a “Travel Pool” and so the first three powers in that pool are available from lvl 1 instead of just the first two.

 

Pool: Concealment

• Concealment has been updated to include a new sneaky & versatile travel power: Infiltration
  • Concealment is now classed as a travel pool - the first 3 powers in the pool are available immediately instead of just the first 2
  • Invisibility and Stealth have been merged together, the best parts of both powers are now available with just Stealth
  • Infiltration now sits where Invisibility used to be in the T3 slot

So if “Travel Pools” can have the first three powers open to pick straight away why do I have to have the first two powers in Flight to open up Group Fly?

Make it available same as the new stealth powers and I can get it on my Mm’s at same time as I get my pets. That would be a great QOL gift from the dev’s.

Thanks guys

[Tigraine]

46 minutes ago, CaptainLupis said:

Maybe, but /bind x "powexec_name fly$$powexec_name hover" is hardly difficult for the majority of the player base I'd suspect.

 

You would be surprised.  The number and nature of questions I've gotten about binds and macros... ugh.

[Arcanum]

19 minutes ago, Jacktar said:

So if “Travel Pools” can have the first three powers open to pick straight away why do I have to have the first two powers in Flight to open up Group Fly?

Make it available same as the new stealth powers and I can get it on my Mm’s at same time as I get my pets. That would be a great QOL gift from the dev’s.

Thanks guys

 

So to clarify - yes, the first three power pools of a travel class become available immediately.

The first three powers of Flight are Hover, Air Superiority, and Fly. Therefore to get Group Fly you will need to be at least Level 14 and have two of the other powers as it's the fourth power pick. This is working as intended.

Does that answer the question? Or are you questioning why Group Fly isn't the Tier 3 power?

Edited March 15, 2021 by GM Arcanum

[SwitchFade]

21 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Hmm. First, thanks for all the hard work.

 

Some considerations,

 

Now that 2 similar travel powers that are not mutually exclusive, this presents a problem. Before, I have alt tray slot 9 and 10 keybound to 2 side mouse buttons under my thumb. I put CJ in 9 and SJ in 10. I hit one Button and CJ is togged on, I hit thebother and it toggles on SJ, while toggling off CJ, because they are mutually exclusive. I switch back and forth, in and out of combat. Now, I will be running with both on, as they don't "toggle" between each other. To rectify this, I could create 2 macros, each an inversion of the other, where one turns on cj and one SJ, both turning off their counterpart. Unfortunately, now the icon is macro icon, not the original icon. If I don't monitor this or make macro, I could accidentally be running both, which is a much higher end drain. All my travel powers on all toons are like this, those two specific mouse buttons are the two travel powers using alttray9 and 10, under my thumb, instinct to switch back and forth.

 

 

@Jimmy

 

Copying my initial post here, for reference, due to the fact I had not tested in depth from a behavioral/instinct standpoint; merely from an initial difference view...

 

I'm finding that my original concern about having to make a macro or relearn/monitor were not actually relevant: in the example I spent time as before, and found no functional difference.

 

Here's why...

 

If I toggle on CJ with one mouse button, as before, this is "in combat" and also basically default state. Once I leave combat I hit the other mouse button for SJ, now both are on, but this turns out to be a non-issue while traveling, as my end consumption from both being on is not an issue. When I re-enter combat I can hit SJ to turn off and CJ remians on.

 

The only behavioral change I'll have to adopt is not alternating between 2 under-thumb mouse buttons to switch between CJ and SJ (or fly/hover, SS/CJ etc...), I'll just now tap one, because I always want the combat movement on while in combat and don't care if it's on or not out of combat.

 

In fact, I just removed CJ from one of the under thumb mouse buttons and treat is as an "armour toggle" that I turn on with the rest and forget, now hitting two buttons to switch travel modes is a complete non-issue, just hitting one now, and that's less actual work. To top it off, travels were improved. So..

 

As I said before, thanks for the hard work Devs, and great work so far!

Edited March 15, 2021 by SwitchFade

[Glacier Peak]

SJ + CJ makes jousting super fun in PVP zones!

[Myrmidon]

2 hours ago, GM Arcanum said:

I'm borrowing this spreadsheet from @Bopper to help list out the detailed numbers for those who have questions/are concerned regarding the Flight Speed changes.

You can checkout his full post here.
 

Flight Pool (Fly, Hover, and Evasive Maneuvers):

 

HC Live:

 

 

Page 2:

 

I understand there are other concerns regarding the change. However, for those interested in the numbers, there they are.

Also, for those who dislike numbers and appreciate more of an artistic approach, here's an excellent visual diagram from @Lines
 

Excellent, something for everyone. More diagrams please.

[Doc_Scorpion]

On 3/13/2021 at 5:26 AM, GM Arcanum said:

Travel powers no longer increase in strength as you level up, the previous level 50 values now apply at all levels

Tested (unboosted, unslotted) Super Jump at level 4.  Leaping vertically, could just make it to the roof of City Hall in Atlas Park - which is basically the same performance as Live.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Doc_Scorpion
Note to self: Two cups of coffee are mandatory prerequisites for powers testing.