Would anyone be interested in playing an SO only build with SO only teammates?

[Bionic_Flea]

I frequently hear people say that the game is balanced around SOs.  But I haven't used other the occasional SO that dropped in my lap for years.  I really don't remember much what playing with SOs was like and even if I did, the first 9 issues are so far away from where we are now, even excluding IOs, that I'm not sure the memory would be a balanced representation of how it would play now.

 

So I started thinking of what I would make for an SO build and decided on a Rad/Dark Tanker.  I even made a Mids build for it.

 

What would you make as an SO only build?  And would you actually be willing to run with it all the way to Incarnate Trials?  Would you make something new and play it up through the levels, make a second build for one of your existing characters, or PL something to slot.

 

If there's enough interest and we can agree on a server and time to meet up we can see how far an SO team can go.

[Hew]

Everything! I don't end up slotting any sort of set ios until my late 20s, early 30s anyway.

 

I am totally cool with SO only team flea, but availability is tough. Right now my bane/crab/everything is just straight SOs, pretty much 3 dam, 1 end, 1 rech. I have others that are just on 25 generics and will likely never up those, which are pretty much exactly SO values.

[AboveTheChemist]

I would make whatever seemed fun. I'd most likely make something new, but I wouldn't rule out making a second build on an existing character. I've never done incarnate trials but I'd certainly be willing to give it a shot. I'm definitely interested in this idea, though. I recently did some SO-only testing on beta and it was a lot of fun.

[SwitchFade]

Do I have to name it flea? 😜

[Greycat]

We have "classic recreators" already - though with even more strict rules (simulating having to take Fitness, etc.)  So it is being done, to an extent...

[Hew]

I have named my char Fleadom. 😛 It should be end OK being /wp.

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

We have "classic recreators" already - though with even more strict rules (simulating having to take Fitness, etc.)  So it is being done, to an extent...

I found the thread: 

Yeah, that's a little more limiting than I was thinking of, but it seems like you guys had more than a few willing to suffer for nostalgia!

[Hew]

To be fair, we generally have the game worked out so much that damn near anything works for at +powersets, on a team, with random others, given a set of people functionally capable of working on SOs alone and not set bonus suckers.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I've actually been playing a lot on SO builds due to various challenges.  If you have the inf for them, they are ridiculously overpowered at early levels!  

 

I would have interest, but my ability to schedule consistent team play is virtually nil.  But I would want the name Flea Agent.

[mistagoat]

When I powerlevel something that I'm not super familiar with or just not sure it'll be something I like, I'll SO it out so I can play around with it and get a feel for it without being totally useless on a TF or team. I think I have a 50 Sentinel that I leveled, loaded up with SOs and promptly forgot about it and maybe one more as well. I'd be down to do some TFs or trials with them.

I also have several toons I leveled up and haven't touched so they have 0 enhancers, wouldn't take long to SO them either.

I'll check what I have when I get home.

[ZemX]

1 minute ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I've actually been playing a lot on SO builds due to various challenges.  If you have the inf for them, they are ridiculously overpowered at early levels!

 

Anybody has the inf for them.  Merits from soloing story arcs can self-fund SOs from 1 to 27 at least, which is as far as I've taken any of them before switching to IOs.

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 minute ago, ZemX said:

 

Anybody has the inf for them.  Merits from soloing story arcs can self-fund SOs from 1 to 27 at least, which is as far as I've taken any of them before switching to IOs.

 

Well, my self-funding no-market alts don't have the inf to buy and upgrade to +3 every time they level.  But yeah, they are generally cost-effective in comparison to IOs.

[roleki]

I would be interested in giving that a go, but timing/scheduling would need to be consistent.  I usually only get to log in between riots or after the kids are unconscious (from rioting).

[ZemX]

1 minute ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Well, my self-funding no-market alts don't have the inf to buy and upgrade to +3 every time they level. 

 

Well, sure... if you're not allowing yourself even to sell converters on the market.  For this SO-only thing being talked about here, I wouldn't even consider it if it was wrapped up in some type of classic challenge too.  If the point it to see how the game is balanced with SOs, I think you can answer that without other restrictions on HOW you get the SOs.  

[Bionic_Flea]

I made Comedic Flea (rad/dark tank) on Excelsior and started running him through Outbreak and then the original contact.  So far I haven't taken any P2W powers or my usual influence infusion from a level 50, but I may change my mind if it gets too tedious.

 

I'm also slotting what drops, including the YinOs that dropped in the tutorial.  That's relatively new.  Or at least, I don't remember those being in the tutorial.  But I haven't done the tutorials in a long time.

 

However, I'm not imposing any additional restrictions on anyone other than a TO/DO/SO only build. 

[ZemX]

2 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I made Comedic Flea (rad/dark tank) on Excelsior and started running him through Outbreak and then the original contact.  So far I haven't taken any P2W powers or my usual influence infusion from a level 50, but I may change my mind if it gets too tedious.

 

I may roll something up, but I'll probably use P2W.  Maybe not 2xp or the temp buffs but definitely the prestige attacks and most definitely the travel powers.  That just relieves some tedium.  It doesn't affect, in any major way, how the content is balanced around SOs, I think.

 

As for what...hmmm.   I know what I DID play back in the SO-days and they were: Ice/Rad Controller, Rad/Rad Corruptor, Nin/Nin Stalker, and AR/Dark Corruptor.  At least those were the ones I remember playing most.   The Stalker worked surprisingly well and that's back when Stalkers were terrible.  But its main advantage was the +def in Divine Avalanche allowing for soft-capped melee defense from level 18 on, a decent self heal for what got around the other defenses, caltrops and (eventually) Blinding Powder for further mitigation, 

 

But... I'd be sorely tempted to re-create my Staff/Nin or Ice/Rad stalkers for this.  The Ice/Rad in particular I'm curious about.  Or maybe Ice/Bio.    IOs right now make defense builds king for Stalkers and Scrappers but Resist/Regen hybrids might measure up more evenly if the defense sets can't as easily soft-cap.  I'll have to roll that around in Mid's.

 

Can't promise I'll be around for a regular team up, but if I'm around, I'd be up for an SO-only team.  I'll post here when I have something started.

26 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

However, I'm not imposing any additional restrictions on anyone other than a TO/DO/SO only build.

 

Hammi-Os? Titan-Os? Hydra-Os?  SHOEs? 🤪

[Bionic_Flea]

Hmmm . . . Probably not going to get many HOs under 50. 

 

I guess honor your conscience.  If you have a slot or two of those it won't make much of a difference, but a build with a ton of HOs is close to a generic IO build . . . I think . . . maybe . . .

[Rathulfr]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Well, my self-funding no-market alts don't have the inf to buy and upgrade to +3 every time they level.  But yeah, they are generally cost-effective in comparison to IOs.

 

I respectfully disagree.  Buying and upgrading SOs as one levels up is more expensive than simply buying/creating level 25/30/35 common IOs.  I've done a couple of different challenges recently, including the The .38 Specials (level cap 38, enhancements cap at +3 SO percentages, and no IO sets, only uniques) and the Iron Man/Woman Challenge (self-sufficient toon, no transfers from alts/SG).  I can assure you that buying and upgrading SOs is more expensive from personal experience. 

 

For example, buying and equipping +3 SOs for my .38 Specials character cost me almost 10M Inf, before they changed the rule to allow common IOs up to level 35.  I swapped them all out for about half that, around 5M Inf (this doesn't inlcude what I had/spent on unique IOs).

 

As for the OP suggestion: I'd gladly play along if I was allowed to use level 25/30/35 common IOs, instead of SOs (because SOs are damned expensive).  These common IOs are functionally equivalent to SOs at -1/+1/+3, respectively.  I have SG bins full of these common IOs, and would prefer to use this existing inventory.  In fact, I usually build all of my alts this way: I don't usually start equipping IOs of any kind until levels 22+.  This is why I have so many of these mid-level IOs laying around.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Rathulfr

[Bionic_Flea]

Made it to level 6 and finished Prince Kiros Nandelu's set of missions and got the next one, Juan Jimenez from King's Row.  I now remember why don't do these original contacts or challenge leveling often -- it's tedious as hell!  Run all over Atlas Park and then back again to talk to contact.  Doing DFB I'd be in the teens.  Even soloing Matthew Habashy without XP boosters would have had me at level 11-12 by now.

 

So, I'm breaking down and picking up the freebies at P2W.  Still self-financing, for now.

[Hedgefund]

Hm, I tried the hardcore challenge for something different.  Start at 0 inf, no p2w, no sugar daddy/momma transfers, delete upon defeat.

 

Turns out it's not that big a challenge.  I mean, I'm subject to dying and deletion because I can have a brain fart like anyone, but it takes literally only a couple of days to procure all of the IO sets starting with just a large red and a large green insp (from tutorial).

 

This challenge does seem interesting, especially combined with hardcore.  

 

It also seems like a good opportunity for a FF Defender to shine.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Hmm, I was thinking about IO sets rather than commons.

 

My experience on my +4/x9 characters has taught me that equipping EVERYTHING with SOs and upgrading every level costs about 500k at level 18.  That's going to scale up as you add more slots, and I'm not sure if the cost of upgrading SOs is non-linear or not, but I'm thinking it's reasonable to estimate a high amount of 2mm a level on average to upgrade all of your SOs, every level.  So total ball park estimate of about 100mm inf?  I don't have a lvl 50 with a build that's less than x4 or x5 that, and that's not counting swapping out IO sets as I level.

 

I do accept the idea (although I haven't run the math) that you are better off buying/creating common IOs at lvl 25-35 and never looking back.

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 minutes ago, Hedgefund said:

Hm, I tried the hardcore challenge for something different.  Start at 0 inf, no p2w, no sugar daddy/momma transfers, delete upon defeat.

 

Turns out it's not that big a challenge.  I mean, I'm subject to dying and deletion because I can have a brain fart like anyone, but it takes literally only a couple of days to procure all of the IO sets starting with just a large red and a large green insp (from tutorial).

 

It's relatively simple with an unlimited budget (and it really doesn't matter if you make a billion on your sugar daddy or on your level 2), true.  

[Rathulfr]

 

1 minute ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

It's relatively simple with an unlimited budget (and it really doesn't matter if you make a billion on your sugar daddy or on your level 2), true.  

 

An easy trip around AP nets you 5 Merits and the LRTP accolade power.  Exchange those for Converters, sell those on the AH, and you've got a tidy sum at level 1.  You can then buy yellow IO recipes without Rare Salvage requirements, craft a couple, convert those to Rare IOs, and sell those for >$1M Inf each.  It's not difficult the make several million in short order, that way.  When my Iron Man character died at level 22, he had 11M Inf on him (after buying/upgrading SOs from levels 1-22).

 

Yes, I know I complain too much about the cost of SOs when making 10M Inf on the AH is pretty easy, or running my spines/fire brute through a farm nets 20M Inf in cash without even considering drops.  But it's the principle of the thing, dammit!  Why spend 10M when you get better for only 5M?  It just seems wrong to throw good money after bad that way.  And I've got plenty of common IOs just sitting in bins gathering virtual dust, so there's that.

 

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

If you have a slot or two of those it won't make much of a difference, but a build with a ton of HOs is close to a generic IO build . . . I think . . . maybe . . .

 

Yeah, but a generic IO build isn't what people are talking about when they say "balanced around SOs" anyway.  

 

It's really about IO set bonuses.  This is what gives you stuff like soft-capped Blasters.  I think as long as you're not allowing set IOs, you're probably exploring the question of "balanced around SOs" fairly well.

 

I've just been reviewing powersets and it's really interesting thinking about this from the standpoint of NOT having set bonuses.  Some powers become a lot more valuable.  I'm seriously considering sets that have recovery or regen since you can't just plop in the usual procs to solve endurance problems.  On the other hand, you can't slot recharge set bonuses and LotGs all over the place either, so we'll all be using a bit less endurance there too.

 

In any case, I'm not particularly interested in a leveling challenge or classic challenge.   If this is just limited to SOs, I'm good.  I just want to know now because I'd probably like to team with other people doing it and it's only fair everyone on the team is following the same rules.  I'd seriously consider @Rathulfr's suggestion about common IOs too.   Up to level 35, you're not exceeding what SOs can do.  You're just removing the tedium of upgrading them.  PvE, it's the same.  You're only enhancing what the AT and its powersets can do.  You're not giving them stuff they don't normally get, which is what set IOs and procs can do.

[Blackfeather]

Thought this might be relevant to post here. 😄