Can we get a server with issue12 ? pre!13 changes ?

[XxOwnZz]

 One of which was reversal of the Issue 13 PvP changes.

I hear alot that players are unhappy with the state of PvP across all Private Servers. I also hear the community want PvP rolled back to pre-Issue 13 days, the changes from way back when are noted here.

So, for my sanity when I dig in the files, it looks like to bring PvP back to it's former glory we'd need the following:

• Removal of Travel Suppression
• Removal of Heal Decay
• Reversal of Mez Res back to Mez Protection
• Reversal of flat numbers on power durations
• Reversal of animation time = damage potential in PvP

Am I missing anything major here, please let me know as I want to dig into the viability of reverting PvP!

[Glacier Peak]

No

[TheZag]

Its my understanding that we dont have the code from anything other then the last version of he game before shutdown.  And the game is moving forward, not backward.  If pvp changes are made it will probably be with future balance in mind.  Not because people want to be un-nerfed.

[Without_Pause]

Can we get readable text first?

[macskull]

There's a lot more that would need to be changed than your list suggests. It would be a colossal amount of work with no guarantee it would bring in any significant amount of players so it just isn't worth the time to work on.

 

The game has changed so much since Issue 12 that simply rolling back all the I13 PvP changes would result in a pretty broken system. For what it's worth travel suppression and heal decay have been removed (they're still options in arena but are off by default) and a recent patch added in mez protection vice resistance for ally-cast powers (Clear Mind, etc.). Things like wholesale mez system changes and damage scale changes aren't going to happen because every power in the game would need to be changed individually.

[Lunchmoney]

Can't read the OP. This is what I see:

 

[Oginth]

20 minutes ago, Lunchmoney said:

Can't read the OP. This is what I see:

 

 

 

Copied and pasted for you:

 

One of which was reversal of the Issue 13 PvP changes.

I hear alot that players are unhappy with the state of PvP across all Private Servers. I also hear the community want PvP rolled back to pre-Issue 13 days, the changes from way back when are noted here.

So, for my sanity when I dig in the files, it looks like to bring PvP back to it's former glory we'd need the following:

• Removal of Travel Suppression
• Removal of Heal Decay
• Reversal of Mez Res back to Mez Protection
• Reversal of flat numbers on power durations
• Reversal of animation time = damage potential in PvP

Am I missing anything major here, please let me know as I want to dig into the viability of reverting PvP!

[Aurora_Girl]

Uhm. 

 

I don't want to just say no, because that's not helpful, but...

 

God no. Never. Not in a million eons of human existence. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Aurora_Girl

[Hyperstrike]

Not going to say that the answer is "no".

But the chances of this happening are slimmer than spontaneously exploding.

 

1. We don't have Issue 12-13 code.
2. Building a set of server code to simulate I12-13 would require extensive development.
3. We would then have multiple code branches that would need maintenance.
4. We would need a separate and totally segregated server instance.  Separate mail system, separate market, etc.

 

 

[Without_Pause]

The issue here is simply the kind of changes the OP is looking for from a group of volunteers for what would be a fraction of what was an originally small player base to begin with. Lets not forget this isn't a legal copy of CoH. This is "Surprised the ban hammer hasn't dropped yet" edition. There is minimal press for this game for that significant reason. How much press does the OP think even the best PvP version for CoH is going to generate? I can likely rattle off 10 changes from the top of my head which need to be done which would make for a far happier player base. Best case scenario is there is a group of volunteers who come along and take a copy of the code base which teams having been using for their own flavors of CoH and create a enhanced PvP based version of that. I wish the OP luck in that regard. "Do I want to go convert over CoH code to the changes I want for PvP or go play Fortnite?"

[SeraphimKensai]

As much fun as I had in i4-i12 PvP, there's no way back to it unless you own server and do all the work yourself as Mac said it would take a ton of effort. That said PvP in its current form isn't the worst as the idea was to try and balance it to make each AT reasonably useful and not completely out of balance where all you see are ice/em or fire/em blasters and the occasional taunt bot, EMP defender, rad/psi defender or zone stalker. The HC devs have been pretty good about communicating with the PvP community about balance changes over the last couple of years.

 

That all said I wish more people would be open to trying PvP, but as they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

That all said I wish more people would be open to trying PvP, but as they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

And there are times the horse will try to kick you for trying to take it over there. (See: moving warzone liaisons *out* of the warzone so people don't even have to go in there, click and leave.)

[Lunchmoney]

On 10/3/2021 at 8:03 AM, Lunchmoney said:

Can't read the OP. This is what I see:

 

 

Not sure why my comment needed a down thumb, but there you go.

[XxOwnZz]

https://web.archive.org/web/20090321043524/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=12221755

[Ukase]

On 10/3/2021 at 12:00 AM, macskull said:

The game has changed so much since Issue 12 that simply rolling back all the I13 PvP changes would result in a pretty broken system. For what it's worth travel suppression and heal decay have been removed (they're still options in arena but are off by default) and a recent patch added in mez protection vice resistance for ally-cast powers (Clear Mind, etc.). Things like wholesale mez system changes and damage scale changes aren't going to happen because every power in the game would need to be changed individually.

My comment is moot, but if they removed travel suppression from pvp, why is it still in pve? The only reason they brought it into pve was to slap it into pvp. To me, that and the initial burn nerf with fear were the two biggest snafus the original devs made. 

[macskull]

12 hours ago, Ukase said:

My comment is moot, but if they removed travel suppression from pvp, why is it still in pve? The only reason they brought it into pve was to slap it into pvp. To me, that and the initial burn nerf with fear were the two biggest snafus the original devs made. 

...Because it wasn't introduced as solely a PvP-based change? In this game's entirely history there's only been one nerf to a power or mechanic specifically for PvP reasons.

Edited October 5, 2021 by macskull

[PeregrineFalcon]

5 minutes ago, macskull said:

...Because it wasn't introduced as solely a PvP-based change? In this game's entirely history there's only been one nerf to a power or mechanic specifically for PvP reasons.

Let's be completely honest for just a moment, Mac.

 

The truth is that in the entire history of the retail game there was just one power that the developers admitted they nerfed because of PvP.

[macskull]

1 minute ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Let's be completely honest for just a moment, Mac.

 

The truth is that in the entire history of the retail game there was just one power that the developers admitted they nerfed because of PvP.

If this were the case, they would have rolled back all the nerfs in PvE once it became possible to separate PvE and PvP powers effects, but here we are.

[Glacier Peak]

15 minutes ago, macskull said:

...Because it wasn't introduced as solely a PvP-based change? In this game's entirely history there's only been one nerf to a power or mechanic specifically for PvP reasons.

Oh I know this one! Bah, but I can't remember. I know you've said it before in a previous post. Was it Tornado from Storm Summoning?

[macskull]

Just now, Glacier Peak said:

Oh I know this one! Bah, but I can't remember. I know you've said it before in a previous post. Was it Tornado from Storm Summoning?

Hurricane, so close enough. The tick rate was specifically adjusted so you couldn't instantly floor someone's range to zero.

[Glacier Peak]

Just now, macskull said:

Hurricane, so close enough. The tick rate was specifically adjusted so you couldn't instantly floor someone's range to zero.

Man! I was so close! Yeah, I remember when you said previously, I was like 'oh yeah Storm used to be hella awesome in 1v1 PvP, bet that had something to do with it.' 

[PeregrineFalcon]

5 hours ago, macskull said:

If this were the case, they would have rolled back all the nerfs in PvE once it became possible to separate PvE and PvP powers effects, but here we are.

Not necessarily. That would require them to admit that they lied when they said that they didn't nerf that ability because of PvP. They had no motivation to do that and a lot of motivation not to.

[Ukase]

11 hours ago, macskull said:

...Because it wasn't introduced as solely a PvP-based change? In this game's entirely history there's only been one nerf to a power or mechanic specifically for PvP reasons.

You keep better notes than I do, or have a better memory. As I recall reading about it - and don't have the notes enshrined anywhere, the complaint was that folks didn't like the other pvpers getting their shots in and running away before the ones being smacked around really had a chance to react. And they came up with that. But they said as part of their reason was they couldn't separate pve from pvp. I have no recollection of reading anything about the change should enter pve as well, but that was just something we had to deal with. 

Since you have this clear memory and remember it - what's the reason for it being in pve? The NPCs were complaining about jousting in Perez Park? 

[The_Warpact]

On 10/2/2021 at 11:47 PM, XxOwnZz said:

 One of which was reversal of the Issue 13 PvP changes.

I hear alot that players are unhappy with the state of PvP across all Private Servers. I also hear the community want PvP rolled back to pre-Issue 13 days, the changes from way back when are noted here.

So, for my sanity when I dig in the files, it looks like to bring PvP back to it's former glory we'd need the following:

• Removal of Travel Suppression
• Removal of Heal Decay
• Reversal of Mez Res back to Mez Protection
• Reversal of flat numbers on power durations
• Reversal of animation time = damage potential in PvP

Am I missing anything major here, please let me know as I want to dig into the viability of reverting PvP!

You do realize that people who are color blind such as myself cannot see this.

 

[Maelwys]

I dabbled in PvP. I remember a few EU users (Can't remember exactly who it was, but Archy and Xanthus ring a faint bell?) tried to get myself and a few of my PVE SG friends into Arena 3v3 PVP fights back in the pre-invention days. This was before Travel suppression; whenever an Empath + a /Energy Blaster blapper duo basically won everything. I brought a Sonic/Elec Defender along and could take someone permanently out of the fight with Force Cage... but there just wasn't enough damage output to focus fire the others down. Most PVE-specced characters just weren't set up for burst damage.

The matchups back then in Arena were very much Rock/Paper/Scissors.

By the time Zone PvP became a thing... basically everyone just hated Stalkers; except for when they hated Masterminds instead (I mostly played on a Bots/Traps Mastermind with Teleport foe. Siren's call was hilarious).

I do remember a certain match rather fondly however: myself on a Katana/Regen scrapper and a SG buddy on their INV Tanker (War Man? Hammerfall? Odin's Son? There were a lot of INV Tankers...) decided to have a friendly scrap in the middle of Warburg. We were standing toe-to-toe for a good 10 minutes, neither of us able to drop the other to zero. Eventually another SG buddy who'd been spectating our fight (I'm fairly sure this was MortalDecay, but it could have been DarknessBliss. Curse my dodgy middle-aged memory!!) called "time out" and we both hopped over to join them... ...and then we both promptly got blown up and KO'ed by the 20+ Trip Mines that he'd been secretly laying. Much swearing and laughter was had all 'round.

Yeah, PVP back then was a fun diversion, but it got old + boring pretty fast unless you were a member of some of the diehard cliques and kept it up because of the community interaction angle. I wouldn't want to live there.
 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Maelwys