zones that are never used ( for the most part)

[MikeEmike]

Hi, I have been playing COH from the start of live ( had a pre order copy) love the game and thanks to the Homecoming team for bringing it back for us.  As I am sure you have noticed there are a lot of zones that just aren't used buy many people if any ( Boomtown, Terra Volta, First ward and the like). Why not make zones auto adjust to the players level? This would give players a reason to use them. why limit a player to a zone or 2 for there level? Especially 50"s who mostly run and rerun the same missions over and over just to have something to do. it would also make it easier or at least more fun  getting defeat badges.  Just an idea most people I mention it to think its a great idea. Thanks for the consideration !  

[Greycat]

First thing I have to point out is - we don't actually have a large population, which is going to throw off how much a zone is "used."

 

You mention Terra Volta - it's the site for the heroside respec trials, as well as several hunts. It's popular for taking out Sky Raiders for Numina, for instance. First Ward is the first post-original-goldside zone, and it and night ward cover the 20-30(ish) range for them. They're story based. So the people *using* the zones are often in missions and not visible.

 

Boomtown can use work, yes, but...

 

Plus, whose level should it adjust to? If a 50 hops in to get badges, and a level 20 hops in nbecause they're sent their on a mission, who is it adjusting for? (Not to mention some groups just not *having* 1-50 members... and some just shouldn't.)

 

I'd be for adding content to the hazard zones, yeah. Messing with levels, not so much.

[MikeEmike]

What I mean is the bad guys in the streets should adjust to your level, like GM's  and there minions. So no matter what level you are you can go in and fight streets. Missions already adjust to your level so thats not an issue.

[The Mighty Paladin]

I've never seen anyone in several of these zones and a big part of the reason is that the content is both level bound and off the beaten path. Most people don't even think about them (or know about them in the case of newer players)  until they're too high level for them, then it's like why bother? this is especially true for Terra Volta and Boomtown, but is becoming more and more true of all hazard zones. I think one thing that could easily draw people to these areas is adding some easy to get contacts that give you missions there, and give you cell phones right away.

[Dona Eis Requiem]

I was actually thinking about this while getting exploration badges a couple days ago. It does seem a shame that that there are so many unused zones now. 

It might get pretty annoying if the whole zone scaled though (badging,hunts, zone RP...) 

Maybe some contacts in-zone that give out scaling missions would be the better route if anything were to be done. 

[krj12]

I think adding more story content or new TFs would be the only thing that could draw players to these zones, and said content would have to be very well done.

As said before, the player population is fairly low and, from what I'm seeing, getting lower as time progresses.    To keep players around, I personally think they should concentrate

on more level 50 content first.   But long term,  more content across all levels is definitely needed.

 

 

[The Mighty Paladin]

2 hours ago, krj12 said:

I think adding more story content or new TFs would be the only thing that could draw players to these zones,

 

 

personally I never do TFs at all. and probably never will. I just hate teaming up. It's never been a good experience for me. I think the main thing that will draw more players is more solo friendly content at all levels. 

[Marine X]

Boomtown has 3 of the most challenging to find Exploration badges in the Game, even with VidiotsMaps and has the War Walker Event for Merits and a Badge. Babbage Spawns there as well. It's also a great place to Street Sweep when you're in that level range due to the large Mobs of Council.

 

Terra Volta is by far the best place to hunt both Freakshow Tanks ( 100 required for Freedom Phalanx Reserve ) or Sky Raiders as they are easy to find and plentiful.

Also home to the Respec Trial.

 

The First Ward and Night Ward Missions and Arcs are some of the Best Written in the Game, with some Novel game mechanics and the enemy groups are more difficult than most, something I hear people asking for quite often, to not do these is missing out on something special, even if you aren't Praetorian.

 

Echo: Faultine is the Best Place to hunt Clockwork Princes ( which spawn Clockwork Gears needed for Freedom Phalanx Reserve ) as they are abundant.

Echo: Dark Astoria is great for working on Banisher Badge ( 200 Banished Pantheon Spirit Masks ) and the home of Adamaster, one of the only in game Giant Monsters who can be summoned on demand.

 

Basically these all have things they are useful for, and occasionally you will even be assigned a mission there by a Contact from a different Zone. I think it would probably be better to just supplement the content of these with Arcs at the level each zone was created to serve and allow them to keep their Level Range

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Marine X

[srmalloy]

On 11/2/2021 at 2:48 PM, Greycat said:

You mention Terra Volta - it's the site for the heroside respec trials, as well as several hunts. It's popular for taking out Sky Raiders for Numina, for instance.

It's required for Sky Raiders during Numina; it's a popular location to get the badges for defeating Sky Raider Sky Skiffs and Enginerrs' force field generators for their respective badges, as well as Freakshow tanks and Super Stunners and Lost bosses, simply because the spawns guarantee easier hunting than other zones. I don't see many people there going after the DE emanators there, simply because the DE around the outside of TV in IP spawn in easier-to-deal-with numbers.

[krj12]

8 hours ago, The Mighty Paladin said:

personally I never do TFs at all. and probably never will. I just hate teaming up. It's never been a good experience for me. I think the main thing that will draw more players is more solo friendly content at all levels. 

 

And I'm the opposite. :)  To each his own.

 

[Alchemystic]

I think it was the intention of the old development team to revamp underutilized maps and create new story arcs to accommodate that.

 

We've seen as much with Faultline, Dark Astoria and Galaxy City, the latter of which didn't get revamped right away, but was planned to be an incarnate zone fighting high level Shivans. Other Hazard Zones were also on the list, but no definitive plans were revealed before the game was shut down, but at least we know that was the direction the old team were going.

 

I know that the new development team are currently working on content for Boomtown and Kallisti Wharf, so we know that they have the ability to change aspects of certain zones to suit new narratives, but the scope of that isn't quite clear yet.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind if the zones stayed at the same level range, but featured new content, just like Faultine and Boomtown. So that not everything is geared towards incarnates like Dark Astoria and Galaxy City were intended to be.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Tyrannical

[MikeEmike]

On 11/4/2021 at 10:15 AM, Marine X said:

Boomtown has 3 of the most challenging to find Exploration badges in the Game, even with VidiotsMaps and has the War Walker Event for Merits and a Badge. Babbage Spawns there as well. It's also a great place to Street Sweep when you're in that level range due to the large Mobs of Council.

 

Terra Volta is by far the best place to hunt both Freakshow Tanks ( 100 required for Freedom Phalanx Reserve ) or Sky Raiders as they are easy to find and plentiful.

Also home to the Respec Trial.

 

The First Ward and Night Ward Missions and Arcs are some of the Best Written in the Game, with some Novel game mechanics and the enemy groups are more difficult than most, something I hear people asking for quite often, to not do these is missing out on something special, even if you aren't Praetorian.

 

Echo: Faultine is the Best Place to hunt Clockwork Princes ( which spawn Clockwork Gears needed for Freedom Phalanx Reserve ) as they are abundant.

Echo: Dark Astoria is great for working on Banisher Badge ( 200 Banished Pantheon Spirit Masks ) and the home of Adamaster, one of the only in game Giant Monsters who can be summoned on demand.

 

Basically these all have things they are useful for, and occasionally you will even be assigned a mission there by a Contact from a different Zone. I think it would probably be better to just supplement the content of these with Arcs at the level each zone was created to serve and allow them to keep their Level Range

 

 

But what would it hurt to auto adjust the baddies for the player? I mean lower level players wouldn't lose anything and higher level players would gain a whole new map. and they can play it without losing there hard earned higher level powers.

[MikeEmike]

Thank you all for your input. More missions and TF would help bring people in the zone for sure. But that still for the most part leaves the huge maps and mobs of baddies outside unused. Maybe its me because I like to do streets but it just seems a shame to have there great maps empty all the time. Maybe they just need to find a way to get people doing more street stuff?

[Ruin Mage]

The no-level code may not work exactly on a mass scale like applying it to zones. Not only that but some enemy groups specifically cut off well before 50.

One server has tried to make Atlas & Mercy have "no level" mobs (i.e minions always white, lts yellows, etc) but it doesn't work. Some mobs always spawn with a level.

Having it auto-adjust would require a bit of code-wrenching and it wouldn't really add much IMO.

[Itikar]

I'd like a way to be exemplared without joining a task force, personally. Though how difficult or worthwhile that would be, I really cannot know. Worst case I can already get an arc of the right level with Ouroboros and then go explore the zones I like.

[RogerWilco]

I think that the Patorian and First/Night Ward content is some of the best in the game. Especially Praetoria als looks more modern than a lot of the older content.

 

I wish the game would push people more towards those areas, but I have more Praetorians than Heroes or Villains, and quite a few stayed that way until level 30-35. Currently the game very much pushes you to take the portal at level 20, but you can also continue in the Wards as a Praetorian and a lot of the characters you met earlier will make another appearance.

 

Praetoria also has a lot of replayability with the 4 different factions.

 

I still think it's stupid that back on live, the Going Rogue content was hidden behind a pay wall, instead of making it the default starting area.

 

What I think would really help the game, is if there were more things to do on the streets, instead of only in missions. Then you would see more people around. For the same reason I am also not a fan of all the teleportation/portals, especially with how awesome the super movement options are in the game.

Edited November 17, 2021 by RogerWilco

[Cenozoic]

On 11/2/2021 at 5:33 PM, MikeEmike said:

Hi, I have been playing COH from the start of live ( had a pre order copy) love the game and thanks to the Homecoming team for bringing it back for us.  As I am sure you have noticed there are a lot of zones that just aren't used buy many people if any ( Boomtown, Terra Volta, First ward and the like). Why not make zones auto adjust to the players level? This would give players a reason to use them. why limit a player to a zone or 2 for there level? Especially 50"s who mostly run and rerun the same missions over and over just to have something to do. it would also make it easier or at least more fun  getting defeat badges.  Just an idea most people I mention it to think its a great idea. Thanks for the consideration !  

 

Mike,

 

I really like your idea.  Let me know what you think about this expansion:

• Zone Levels remain as set
  • Ex. Talos Island is 20-27
• Level Scalar system for zones (this may or may not affect missions, TF/SF/Trials, or unique encounters like Hami, MSR, zone events)
  • 1-10 --> adds -4 to player level shift (ex. a Level 4 toon in Peregrine Island will encounter +4 enemies)
  • 11-20 --> adds -3 to player level shift (ex. Level 14 toon in PI encounters +3 enemies)
  • 21-30 --> adds -2
  • 31-40 --> adds -1
  • 41-50 --> adds 0
  • 50+1 --> adds +1 (ex. Level 50+1 toon in Peregrine Island encounters -1 enemies)
  • 50+2 --> adds +2 
  • 50+3 --> adds +3
• Enemy levels adjust per player; the color/con system can remain mostly intact
  • Ex. a player is in Talos Island
  • Level 1-10 player in Talos --> enemies are +2 to the player
  • Level 11-19 player in Talos --> enemies are +1 to the player
  • Level 20-30 player in Talos --> enemies are +0 to the player (default level range 20-27)
  • Level 31-40 player in Talos --> enemies are -1 to the player
  • Level 41-50 player in Talos --> enemies are -2 to the player
  • Level 50+1 to 50+3 player in Talos --> enemies are -2 to the player
    • Keep in mind that unslotting incarnate powers can influence this shift (like driving a manual transmission - pick the gear you want, and therefore the XP that drops)
• Incarnate Notes
  • Incarnates will not cause the enemies spawned to be below -4, i.e. smashing Skulls in Kings Row, a 50+3 will still see -4 enemies (not -7)
  • Any zone tagged as "50" should include the Incarnate system - ex. Rikti War Zone, Shadow Shard, Grandville, etc.
    • What good is Incarnate power if it has a limited application?  At least make the 50+ missions instances con to the Incarnate Level

But why did you do that, Cen?

• EVERYTHING SHOULD DROP XP - Maybe I want to go shoot Wailers in St. Martial.  Maybe I wanna pick a fight with Sky Raiders in Terra Volta.  It should all have measurable value to my development as a hero, villain, or comedian.
• Let's keep the powers we worked hard to achieve!!!!  Just scale the XP accordingly and have fun.
• Badging - I am not convinced that massacring level 8 Hellions with my 51 Fire Blaster is the best use of badge time.  I'd like some (even low) XP for my troubles.  Keeps the pulse alive when they can shoot back effectively.
• Nomadic Murder - I like cruising through zones just killing stuff, so again, why not be compensated for roaming free?

Yeah, but what are the ... Cons?

• It is kind of nice to be ridiculously OP in Perez Park and smashing everything
• The first time I zoned into Independence Port from Steel Canyon, I was a level 11 Mind/Rad Controller.  The year was 2004.  I ran straight into a mob of level 23 enemies and got smeshed.  I learned a lot during that ambulance ride.
• The first time I saw Devouring Earth, I was near (helmeted) Positron in Steel Canyon.  It was a purple con Bladegrass, and it ran right by me, no doubt an ambush for some other player.  I shot at it, missed, and it kept running toward its target.  It was that moment that I was hooked on CoH (and later CoX).  A plant monster ran downtown through 
  • I think those moments can still be captured using the level system proposed.

Do the Pros outweigh the Cons?

• I think so.
• Not many of us are new players.  This is kind of a niche world where most of the CoX universe is quantified and explored.  I am not sure that the old gray/purple system needs to stay as broad as it once did, so I would like to marry the idea of everything dropping XP while keeping the zones uniquely engaging.  Heck, even some zones like Night Ward are going to be fun because they are dangerous even to +3/+4 toons.  Fun!

 

 

Anyway, thanks for reading.  I am sure there are lots of these types of ideas floating around, and your feedback is much appreciated.

[wjrasmussen]

I hate mmorpgs that change a mob/zone to my character level.  It would ruin the game for me.

[Akisan]

Also against having zones changed to character level for a few reasons -

• There's a strong sense of progression for outlevelling zones, and moving up to new areas (even within the same map).
• Zones' spawns are somewhat weighted based on the sizes of teams in the area, as well as the levels of people in the area.  If I'm on a weaker, solo character, and there's a bunch of teams around (so most spawns are large, 5-6 man groups), I can look around for a group of -1s or 2s so that I can handle the additional enemies in the group.
• Higher level enemies have better kits.  Even SK'd to even level, a level 10 character is going to have a hard time against most level 50 mobs.  You just don't have the tools necessary to combat the extra tricks mobs can pull (like Carnie's -acc, -end, or mez effects).
• There's a definite convenience factor in being able to just bounce through a low-level zone and not worry about accidental aggro.  It's why I typically don't fully complete most zones for badges until I'm +4 to the entire zone.

That said, totally for @Itikar's suggestion - a contact somewhere in the zone that exemplars you down to the zone's level for streetsweeping would be great to have - especially if it allowed you to run PuGs / radios / tips at that level. 

[KaizenSoze]

As people have said, the greifing potential for having high level mobs in even slightly lower level zone is a real problem.

 

Some people just like to watch the world burn.

 

Lower your level via contact is a good idea.  Also, raise the experience gained to make street sweeping worth it when down leveled.

 

Actually, I like to street sweep for fun. Just not a lot of places to do that at 50.

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by KaizenSoze

[oedipus_tex]

I don't mind this solution.

 

TBH there's nothing about the current street NPC generation that puts me into the element thematically. It's like "Oh there's someone getting her purse snatched. Well, best of luck lady, these mobs are gray to me!"

 

 

FWIW Striga Isle is a possibly good candidate for this treatment. I think some version of those mobs stretches to 50. I'm not sure it would create a wave visitors there where none were before but it would at least make the zone make more sense. 

[Zepp]

Playing a Praetorian atm. First Ward is essential for Praetorians. At level 48, there are no options for leveling to 50 outside of Night Ward,

[RogerWilco]

On 11/18/2021 at 7:36 PM, oedipus_tex said:

I don't mind this solution.

 

TBH there's nothing about the current street NPC generation that puts me into the element thematically. It's like "Oh there's someone getting her purse snatched. Well, best of luck lady, these mobs are gray to me!"

 

 

FWIW Striga Isle is a possibly good candidate for this treatment. I think some version of those mobs stretches to 50. I'm not sure it would create a wave visitors there where none were before but it would at least make the zone make more sense. 

 

I always attack those purse snatchers if I see one. No matter the zone or what level I am.

(And if I'm playing a Hero of course)

Superman or Spiderman catch the low level crooks too, and and Mumin Rider from One Punch Man tries even if he's too low level. It's what Hero's do!

 

I would like to see some updates to the costumes of the citizens walking the streets, they are very crude and 2004-ish.

I would also like some accolades for streetsweeping, like having saved 1000 purses for example.

[Faultline]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:22 AM, Shadeknight said:

The no-level code may not work exactly on a mass scale like applying it to zones. Not only that but some enemy groups specifically cut off well before 50.

 

That code is a flag called IgnoreCombatMods and it can be set in a few different ways: on the critter itself (applies everywhere), on the SpawnDef (applies to the specific spawn point the critter is created in) or as an AI behavior (applies to a specific critter after the behavior is given). For making all the mobs in a zone not have a level regardless of source, you could have a small script that hooks on entity creation and gives them the AI behavior as soon as they are created, after checking that they're not a player or player pet. This would cover all critters regardless of the source of spawning and be a lot easier than editing all the spawndefs, but still has the edge case where certain player pets that are "orphaned" after creation would be picked up as mobs and given the behavior.

 

There is no intention of doing that in HC at this point in time.

[PeregrineFalcon]

On 11/18/2021 at 9:36 AM, oedipus_tex said:

TBH there's nothing about the current street NPC generation that puts me into the element thematically. It's like "Oh there's someone getting her purse snatched. Well, best of luck lady, these mobs are gray to me!"

I don't want all street mobs to be my level. I like my level 50 being like Superman when he smacks some Hellions in Atlas Park around. Super hero game!

 

However, I would like to see a situation where saving a citizen from muggers on the street rewards a character, regardless of level. Perhaps a small amount of XP or special drop when the civilian walks up to the character and thanks them.