What's the consensus for the new stone armor?

[Xandyr]

Just curious if anyone has played around with Stone armor since the changes went live? Is the proc for Brimstone armor nice? And the big question, do you really need to take granite, or can you work and skip it and still be nigh indestructible?

 What's your thoughts about it?

[Troo]

 subjective

[Hjarki]

The proc for Brimstone Armor is somewhat equivalent to the +damage abilities from other primaries. However, it's handled in a different fashion so it provides the same bonus damage across all melee attacks (ranged attacks are slightly lower).

 

In non-Granite mode, you're definitely nigh-unto-indestructible and have a diverse array of abilities. I'd say it's one of the top tier armor sets.

 

However, due to existence of Toughness and the general bias of set bonuses, you're normally going to be much weaker vs. E/N than S/L or F/C. So Granite can help in oddball situations like Lord Recluse. Having two different options means you'll rarely ever face a situation where neither is sufficient.

 

[Marshal_General]

I plugged the new numbers into mids and threw together a SA/MA build with 62% S/L, 61% E/N and 56% Psi def. It has 69% S/L, 83% F/C, 57% E/N and 90% Toxic resists. HP is capped with perma Earth's Embrace.

[Xandyr]

1 hour ago, Marshal_General said:

I plugged the new numbers into mids and threw together a SA/MA build with 62% S/L, 61% E/N and 56% Psi def. It has 69% S/L, 83% F/C, 57% E/N and 90% Toxic resists. HP is capped with perma Earth's Embrace.

 I apparently am not smart enough to "plug the new numbers into Mids". Maybe there will be an update for mids to include all the new changes from this new Issue/Page.

[Marshal_General]

17 hours ago, Xandyr said:

 I apparently am not smart enough to "plug the new numbers into Mids". Maybe there will be an update for mids to include all the new changes from this new Issue/Page.

It helps to have 2 computers, so that you can bring up the sets in character creation so that you can edit the database of mids on the other one.

[Tsuko]

My first consensus is that new stone armor is gorgeous :

 

[Sovera]

How does Brimstone's proc compare as a damage proc? Second 'damage aura' or something that feels significant?

[cohRock]

I've got to spend time on an abandoned 20-ish stoner and test this stuff out.  I think it was page 2 that took away the maneuverability penalty from Rooted.  Now page 3 moves a not insignificant amount of resistance and defense from Granite to Stone Skin, improving all armors and not nerfing Granite's protection in the process.

 

With the reduction in armor endurance cost, I noticed a level 50 tank was using less than 1.0 end/sec supporting the 4 non-granite toggles, Rooted, and even Tough.  I'll have to re-evaluate that build and see if he even needs Tough any more.  He had it in the hope of being more survivable outside of Granite.  I gotta say, the prospect of having a Tier 9 that is no longer the defining element of the set sounds wonderful.

[Bopper]

It's a strong set. Here is my template (no secondary nor epic sets selected). This is capped HP, do whatever you like with the final 7 power picks and 20 enhancement slots. Of course, feel free to move things around as you like. I wanted 80% slow resistance which is why you see Kick, Boxing and Brawl all 2-slotted. The screenshot shows how strong it is prior to finishing the offensive side of the build. Softcapped defense in S/L/E/N/P, and almost capped resistance in F/C/T (with one ATO proc factored in).

 

[PLVRIZR]

20 hours ago, Bopper said:

It's a strong set.

 

That's now even stronger, Granite-less.  Broke out my titular toon and loaded him up in Indom.  Current in-game stats, Granite off, no procs, ATOs or incarnates:

 

 

vs. pre-page 3 upates (DDR unchanged at 51.9%):

 

All the changes are delineated in the issue notes, but moving 5% here and 6% there and buffing Brimstone (actual number is 99.59% res F/C) makes the non-Granite build even stronger.  I still have Granite as my "oh-$hit" emergency button, however 😜.

 

Mostly stolen from Bopper and Hyper, but here's PLVRIZR, if anyone's interested in a completed SS build:

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1500&c=717&a=1434&f=HEX&dc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

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by PLVRIZR
took out an erroneous screen shot

[Hjarki]

7 hours ago, PLVRIZR said:

That's now even stronger, Granite-less.

I've been taking a different approach. Rather than deciding Granite vs. non-Granite, I set up to run either as necessary. 95% of the time, I'm just running around with soft-capped S/L/E/N/P + hard-capped F/C. But if I need something more, I can simply activate Granite and go to 90% hard-cap against non-Psi and fairly decent defense against non-Psi.

 

The benefit of this approach is that I'm a lot less concerned with trying to be a tank-for-all-seasons. I can just build for mostly-good-enough and not worry terribly much about the fringe cases because I can simply use Granite Armor for those.

 

My general approach tends to look something like:

• Rock Armor: LotG (global +rchg, defense), Shield Wall (unique)
• Stone Skin: Gladiator’s Armor (unique, resist), Unbreakable Guard (unique, resist), LotG (global +rchg, defense)
• Earth’s Embrace: Preventative Medicine (unique, heal, heal/recharge), Impervium (+psi resist, resist, resist/recharge)
• Mud Pots: varies based on primary
• Rooted: Panacea (unique, heal), Numina’s Convalescence (unique, heal)
• Brimstone Armor: Impervium (+psi resist, resist, resist/end), Steadfast Protection (unique)
• Crystal Armor: LotG (global +rchg, defense)
• Minerals: LotG (global +rchg, defense)
• Granite Armor: Reactive Armor (unique, defense, defense/end), Aegis (unique, resist, resist/end)
• Combat Jumping Kismet (unique). Note: This cannot go in most Stone powers because it’s a proc. Since I use both Granite and non-Granite armors, I can’t guarantee most of the Stone powers will be active 100% of the time.
• Maneuvers: LotG (global +rchg, defense)
• Tactics: Rectified Recticle (unique, ToHit)
• Combat Teleport: Gaussian’s (unique, ToHit)
• Health: Miracle (unique), Regenerative Tissue (unique)
• Stamina: Performance Shifter (unique, EndMod), Power Transfer (unique, EndMod)

Between primary and Mud Pots, there will be some combination of the ATOs, purple sets like Hecatomb/Armageddon, Superior Blistering Cold, Mocking Beratement. I've used Eradication to bolster E/N Def sometimes as well. Because I normally don't take the Fighting Pool, my S/L and E/N Resists tend to be about the same (although both aree capped in Granite).

 

The primary is a bit of a tough call. While the endurance demands have been reduced and a bit of recovery added, most primaries will easily out-end the limited recovery of Stone Armor. There's also the issue that the ST rotation needs to be able to operate at two different haste breakpoints (normal and ~-65%). This isn't normally a huge problem because Tankers are forced to take the normally superfluous first attack in the melee sets but it does mean actually slotting that power.

[nihilii]

I haven't even bothered to respec my Tankers yet, but even as a pure Granite build, I'm enjoying the ability to do slight hops. Rooted not rooting makes fast travel safer.

 

Come to think, I really need to respec so I can reslot Stone Skin properly.

/stone now having standard movement outside of Granite is an absolute game changer. IMHO, Hjarki's approach above will be the objective best in most cases. Run in standard armors most of the time, pop in Granite when the going gets tough. With the knowledge Granite is perma, this is a significantly different flow from other T9s where you're always bound by a time limit.

[PLVRIZR]

10 hours ago, Hjarki said:

I set up to run either as necessary. 95% of the time, I'm just running around with soft-capped S/L/E/N/P + hard-capped F/C. But if I need something more, I can simply activate Granite...

 

Same, here:

 

19 hours ago, PLVRIZR said:

I still have Granite as my "oh-$hit" emergency button, however 😜.

 

[Sovera]

On 11/28/2021 at 6:04 PM, Sovera said:

How does Brimstone's proc compare as a damage proc? Second 'damage aura' or something that feels significant?

 

[PLVRIZR]

42 minutes ago, Sovera said:

How does Brimstone's proc compare as a damage proc? Second 'damage aura' or something that feels significant?

 

 Apologies, I forgot about your ask, in my glee of seeing even better Def/Res numbers 😆

 

Yes, looks like it's a second damage (fire over time), to damaging attacks (including AOE), but nothing added for a toggle AOE, like Mud Pots.  Took PLV in for a quick look and here are the numbers, against +4 Council:

Jab - 48.53, three hits.  Once had no proc, once was 2 x 7.43 fire dot, once was 3 times 7.43

Haymaker - 117.05, three hits.  Twice was 2 x 10.29, once was 3 x 10.29

KOB - 254.22, three hits.  Once was one proc for 15.31, once was 2 x 15.31, once was 3 x 15.31

Stomp - 101.59, when proc'd, added 69.6 for Armageddon, plus 4.43 and, as above, ranging from 1x, 2x and max 3x dot

 

So if it averages 1.5 procs, over time, that's a 23% increase in damage for Jab.  I'd call that "significant"...but it drops off rapidly, the more damaging the attack at 13% for Haymaker and 9% for KOB (and fairly insignificant for an AOE like Stomp (6.6%).

Edited November 30, 2021 by PLVRIZR
added damage percentages

[Sovera]

5 minutes ago, PLVRIZR said:

 

 Apologies, I forgot about your ask, in my glee of seeing even better Def/Res numbers 😆

 

Yes, looks like it's a second damage (fire over time), to damaging attacks (including AOE), but nothing added for a constant AOE, like Mud Pots.  Took PLV in for a quick look and here are the numbers, against +4 Council:

Jab - 48.53, three hits.  Once had no proc, once was 2 x 7.43 fire dot, once was 3 times 7.43

Haymaker - 117.05, three hits.  Twice was 2 x 10.29, once was 3 x 10.29

KOB - 254.22, three hits.  Once was one proc for 15.31, once was 2 x 15.31, once was 3 x 15.31

Stomp - 101.59, when proc'd, added 69.6 for Armageddon, plus 4.43 and, as above, ranging from 1x, 2x and max 3x dot

 

 

Thank you kindly for the time. So a kind of second damage aura-ish in terms of damage. Don't see it really making or breaking a build - Burn it ain't -  but certainly nice as an added damage. Pity the devs did not listen to the request of swapping Brimstone to a level lower.

 

Now I'm pondering Rad Melee and Stone for triple damage aura effect.

[EdgeOfDreams]

Haven't played with it a lot yet, but so far it seems really good. Defense, resist, max HP, self heal, regen, two damage powers, recharge, and recovery... That's a lot from one set.

 

For non-Granite, what is even the set's weakness at this point? Just the lack of F/C defense?

 

Any particularly good secondaries to pair with it? It's not clear to me if the way the Brimstone proc scales will favor any specific set.

 

[Bopper]

On 11/28/2021 at 10:04 AM, Sovera said:

How does Brimstone's proc compare as a damage proc? Second 'damage aura' or something that feels significant?

 

[Sovera]

Just now, Bopper said:

 

 

 

I know Boops, I was following that thread as well. But the equation didn't tell me enough. Now I know it's around 7 to 15 damage repeated through one or three times per attack (or none).

 

Kinda ish a second damage aura but not really since an aura hits everyone.

[Bopper]

24 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

For non-Granite, what is even the set's weakness at this point? Just the lack of F/C defense?

 

Power pick investment (you'll be taking all 8 non-granite powers), enhancement investment (you'll be slotting 3-6 enhancements in those 8 non-granite powers), and endurance cost (you will be running 6 toggles, not including pool powers).

 

It's very strong with no weakness outside of some debuff vulnerabilities. But it takes a lot of investment which can leave you limited on your secondary/epic picks. 

[Bopper]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

 

I know Boops, I was following that thread as well. But the equation didn't tell me enough. Now I know it's around 7 to 15 damage repeated through one or three times per attack (or none).

 

Kinda ish a second damage aura but not really since an aura hits everyone.

Think of Brimstone Proc as a constant DPS increase (because it scales with cast time). At level 50, that added DPS looks like this.

 

 

So for a tanker, attacks with a range of less than 20 feet will give you 20.6 DPS. Outside of 20 feet it will be 17.4 DPS.

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Think of Brimstone Proc as a constant DPS increase (because it scales with cast time). At level 50, that added DPS looks like this.

 

 

So for a tanker, attacks with a range of less than 20 feet will give you 20.6 DPS. Outside of 20 feet it will be 17.4 DPS.

 

 

That seems very reasonable. It may not be Burn but it's closer to Offensive Adaptation, give or take a few %.

[Linea]

I've rebuilt entire builds to gain 40dps .... *glares at scrapper brimstone*

[Marshal_General]

19 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

 

That seems very reasonable. It may not be Burn but it's closer to Offensive Adaptation, give or take a few %.

I hope its more consistent and reliable than Offensive Adaptation.

I have pretty much given up on sentinels.