Why is Burn Overpowered?

[Glacier Peak]

Recharges so fast, drops multiple pets, tons of DoT, enormous damage - is there even a risk versus reward mechanism at play here or is it too hot to fix without an uproar from the player base?

[wjrasmussen]

3 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Recharges so fast, drops multiple pets, tons of DoT, enormous damage - is there even a risk versus reward mechanism at play here or is it too hot to fix without an uproar from the player base?

No.  If anything, it needs to have about twice the damage at a minimum and a longer duration.

[Without_Pause]

The drawback is the lack of sturdy factor from the rest of the set. I'm a support player at heart, and FA is the one sets who's health bar is going to be consistently going down on teams compared to other sets. Maybe not to the point it faceplants or even faceplants a lot, but it certainly struggles more than other sets from what I can tell. 

[SaintD]

It's so hilariously awesome because murdering everything in sight before they kill you like you're a 1st level D&D wizard with 1d4 harsh glare damage, is pretty much the actual damage mitigation of the set.

If they ain't all dead immediately, you are.

[Albion]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Recharges so fast, drops multiple pets, tons of DoT, enormous damage - is there even a risk versus reward mechanism at play here or is it too hot to fix without an uproar from the player base?

Question here is, how long is going to keep up being like that...

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Recharges so fast, drops multiple pets, tons of DoT, enormous damage - is there even a risk versus reward mechanism at play here or is it too hot to fix without an uproar from the player base?

 

I remember originally, it was part of the idea that you trade survival for more Damage on a Tank. It used to be a Tank and Blaster power only, then it was proliferated to other AT's later. But we also have to keep in mind, that it didn't always do a huge upfront damage, with small tics over time afterwards. It used to be tics of damage only in faster succession to what they are now. It used to be 1 tic of damage per .25 seconds for X amount of seconds or something to that affect. Later, 75% of that damage was moved to the first tic then the tics of left over damage was changed to 1 tic of damage per second, The end result, mobs drop faster due to the upfront loaded damage while the remainder tics kind of do their thing.

I have personally requested that Burn be reverted back to its original state, but it wasn't a very popular request. Sure, the damage would be the same, but the mobs would have to stand in it longer before dropping, which adds more risk to the Tank while keeping the damage per duration rather than activation. I still think Burn should be reverted back to its original state.

[Hew]

You know, I keep hearing this "fire armor is weak without burn" nonsense. It simply isn't true. I have a fa/dm tank that has zero problems tackling pretty much everything in the game at +3 or +4, solo, sans candy. You all just either don't bother to try, or really believe something to be true that isn't and give up.

 

Burn isn't the only thing in the damn set.

 

It should be noted however, that I would not take this tank into relentless, but I would definitely take it into malicious ASF.

[Without_Pause]

To be fair, using Dark with it is a bit of a cheat.

[Hew]

59 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

To be fair, using Dark with it is a bit of a cheat.

There are other ways to garner additional mitigation from your secondary.

[The_Warpact]

This sounds like a nerf post...

[jordanlc93]

Oil Slick Arrow is 10x better IMO. 

[JnEricsonx]

7 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

To be fair, using Dark with it is a bit of a cheat.

Shh!   My first Brute back on live was a DM/FA brute!   I called her my Regen brute due to multiple end and healing powers!  And I happily remade her!

[Luminara]

Burn is overpowered because cooking at low temperatures consumes more fuel than cooking at high temperatures, due to the necessity to increase cooking time significantly in order to kill all pathogens.  You're pumping less CO2 into the atmosphere, and you're ensuring that your meat victims detainees aren't infested with parasites and bacteria.  Good for the environment and good for you.

[Solarverse]

7 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Burn is overpowered because cooking at low temperatures consumes more fuel than cooking at high temperatures, due to the necessity to increase cooking time significantly in order to kill all pathogens.  You're pumping less CO2 into the atmosphere, and you're ensuring that your meat victims detainees aren't infested with parasites and bacteria.  Good for the environment and good for you.

 

That was some deep s**t right there!

[SmokeySlothz]

Brutal

Uncaged

Rowdy

Nuke

Burn is a euphoric experience that breaks the fourth dimension.  Its a mind bending experience that sucks you in never lets go.  Its an experience unheard of in many departments.  Its the cold on the other side of the pillow.  Burn opens your mind and enslaves you to a idea of exceeding greatness.  The Damage Per Second is great and unmatched is accessibility. Its tugs on your heart strings when you aren't playing burn.  Its becomes a burning itch in the back of the head.  "Burn would be great here".  Thoughts flood the mind and eventually you go through stages of grief. "Why can't I play burn right now?".  This idea will plague your inner mind.  The virus has affected you.........nice

[Fira]

It's worth noting that Mastermind Robotics Assault Bot's Robotics Incendiary Swarm Missiles work under pretty much the same shotgun mechanism via flames pseudopets. This is what makes its AoE so stupidly strong, and also what justifies everything else around it being meh in comparison.... I'd really wish it to be otherwise.

[Solarverse]

A viable and reasonable option to nerf Burn would be, once you drop the Burn Patch, Firefighters would spawn as ambush mobs to the Burn Patch, in which they would use fire extinguishers to put out the flames. Problem solved.

[Luminara]

5 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

A viable and reasonable option to nerf Burn would be, once you drop the Burn Patch, Firefighters would spawn as ambush mobs to the Burn Patch, in which they would use fire extinguishers to put out the flames. Problem solved.

 

Clowns with seltzer bottles.

[Glacier Peak]

Yeah Burn is the power that makes the set feel offensive. 

[Troo]

50 minutes ago, Luminara said:

your meat victims detainees

 

+1

 

burn overpowered? I feel like we've been trolled.

if its targeted cap was higher, sure it would be overpowered.

[Farmer Johnson]

26 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Yeah Burn is the power that makes the set feel offensive. 

Everyone is so easily offended nowadays.  Makes me sick.

[Ukase]

11 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Recharges so fast, drops multiple pets, tons of DoT, enormous damage - is there even a risk versus reward mechanism at play here or is it too hot to fix without an uproar from the player base?

So, this is a fair question. I think I'd be safe to say 90% of "farm builds" use burn. 

But, let's take a look at the game as a whole, not just AE and other farm scenarios. 
I definitely will stipulate, that burn, much like blizzard is a psuedo-pet, of sorts. It seems quite accurate unslotted until you get to +2 to +4 mobs, then you'll see the "miss" words popping overhead for council. Toss in some vampyri in there, and you'll see it a LOT, even with accuracy. 

But, let's consider the fiery armor, that a player must choose to get burn. 
No kickback protection - overcome by a kb prot. IO.  Now, that gets you past...oh, 90% of the game, but if you want to go all melee in the hive, you'd better find a way (looking at you teleport pool) to slot 4-5 of those kb-prot. to be on scale with any of the other armors. Either way, you have to use more slots to get to a "level" playing field with other tanks. 

No defense debuff resistance - Sure, a fire tank gets capped fire resist if they choose Temp. Protection at about level 15 or so. It can make leveling in a farm very fast. But outside of a farm, you'll need to be attentive to your endurance recovery, your recharge for the self-heal, and your defensive stats. You almost have to take Ageless for your Destiny to get some fleeting DDR every couple of minutes. 

Depending on the secondary, a fire tank CAN be quite useful outside of a farm. But, burn is not likely to be slotted with procs as a farmer would. So many slots are used to shore up defensive and resistance holes that dps and hitpoints take a back seat. 

So, while I do think burn is fantastic, it needs to be. If you put "fear" back in burn, or reduced the recharge significantly, essentially 90% of the folks that play a fire tank would just stop playing them. Other tanks (and brutes) that aren't fiery aura are just too close in dps without the KB & DDR handicaps. 

I remember thinking my fire/ice tank was fantastic. I have 90% s/l/f/e resistance. Love seeing the blue capped numbers! 
I took it at the usual setting through the incarnate missions in DA. Couldn't hit the Tsoo very well without munching a lot of yellows. The Banished Pantheons...couldn't hit them, and they floored any defense I did have to negative numbers. I'd hit burn, but it was like it wasn't even on. 
I had to reset the mission and adjust the levels down to +1 before I could get through them. And it still took a while. (solo)

So, yeah, burn is good, but even with what I consider a solid build for non-farm content, it ain't THAT good to overcome various NPC factions like Banished Pantheon, Arachnos, Nemesis at high difficulty levels. At base difficulty, yeah, simple. But +4/8, even +2/8 will make you want to reroll rad armor with a quickness. 
 

[Ukase]

8 hours ago, Hew said:

You know, I keep hearing this "fire armor is weak without burn" nonsense. It simply isn't true. I have a fa/dm tank that has zero problems tackling pretty much everything in the game at +3 or +4, solo, sans candy. You all just either don't bother to try, or really believe something to be true that isn't and give up.

 

Burn isn't the only thing in the damn set.

 

It should be noted however, that I would not take this tank into relentless, but I would definitely take it into malicious ASF.

Yeah, but dark secondary is pretty ugly (to me) visually - at least what little I can see of it. There's no crunch like stone or mace, so what good is being able to survive if your avatar is making all those gross sounds? 
(I'm totally kidding)
I was wondering about the truth of your statement until I saw your secondary was dark. Try it with cold. Frost and Burn are a hoot in conjunction with each other - but you may find yourself over your head with some NPC factions. Risk vs. reward and all that. 

[Hew]

Modern stone has _excellent_ mitigation in fault/tremor, if you make them part of your standard attack chain. With tremor having its cast time vastly accelerated, and fault gonna fault, you get tons of soft control from extensive use of kd throughout the powerset. It is SO significant, that I run my stone/stone stalker without fighting pool at all, and take on some pretty silly content. KD is kd is kd and not much at all resists it...

[Without_Pause]

9 hours ago, Hew said:

There are other ways to garner additional mitigation from your secondary.

Fire/dark gets two ways to heal and recover end. Tohit debuffs and a Fear if that's your thing. And yeah, perma Soul Drain to which further abuses Burn.