Will Regen ever be reworked?

[Solarverse]

I am honestly just now trying out Regen again since it was nerfed back on live when Instant Healing was changed from a toggle to a to a click. When that happened, it really just killed the set for me and I would assume many others. The set simply just doesn't stack up compared to...well, pretty much every other set out there. I may not even finish this toon because I am only playing as a Regen out of nostalgia rather than actual survivability. IMO the set just isn't viable when you have others that are light years beyond it.

Has there been any talk from the Devs on Discord about maybe giving Regen a new life? I know nothing has been said on these forums to the best of my knowledge, just hope to see the set be something worth playing again some time in the near future.

[Marine X]

I imagine if they ever get around to porting Regen to Tanks they would have to return Instant Healing to a toggle. I found the Brute version to be OK, not stellar or anything, but usable. I did dive a little deeper into Pool Powers to compensate than I usually do but found some adversaries, like Reichsman at +4 could just chew through the regeneration and defenses. I would like to see something done as well but we'll see I guess.

[Without_Pause]

It would start by giving it resistance to -regen. Giving it a way to deal with -recharge might be required as well. 

[Shadow Raven]

I'm glad you brought this topic up. I created a MA/Regen scrapper and I've been really surprised at how weak Regen is now.

 

I recall my build being able to withstand a lot of punishment, but I also quit playing around the first year, so I'm missing out on a lot of changes.

 

I'm debating a respec, but I'm still not sure.

[KaizenSoze]

20 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

It would start by giving it resistance to -regen. Giving it a way to deal with -recharge might be required as well. 

Regen should be as immune to -regen and -recovery as super reflexes is to -defense. And some -recharge resistance.

 

That would be a good start. Still I am not sure how to improve regen w/o making it overpowered.

 

But yes, it badly needs a review.

[Solarverse]

35 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

 

I am not sure how to improve regen w/o making it overpowered.

 

 

Tongue in cheek comment here, but let's face it, it's the only set that isn't overpowered, lol,

[Snarky]

They have it on the to do list.  Should be nerfed in the next issue or two

[Solarverse]

4 minutes ago, Snarky said:

They have it on the to do list.  Should be nerfed in the next issue or two

 

Bought damn time!

[cohRock]

Part of the issue is simply expectations.  If you believe that any tank or brute should be able to solo a +4*8 mission or farm, then yeah, regen is weak.  If you believe such a concept it sort of silly on its face, then other protection sets are over-powered.  I'm sort of in the middle.  A sweet spot for a well developed brute or tank to solo might be better thought of as +2*5.  Or maybe +2*7 for a tank -- it would just take him forever.

 

Note that a 50+3 brute or tank doing incarnate content is running +4 missions that are actually just +1 to themself.  So Dark Astoria missions, for example, might be a place where we are already at a sweet spot.

Edited January 20, 2022 by cohRock
added 2nd paragraph

[TheZag]

Back on live i had 2 level 50 characters at the time of the regen nerf.  It was a spines/regen scrapper.  I tried for about a week and then deleted the character.  A level 50 was a big deal for me at the time but he sucked so bad after the nerf.

 

I know some people have found ways to make regen work but its not for me.  Im working on a /willpower brute now and rise to the challenge looks promising.  At least its a toggle for regen.

[Biff Pow]

Willpower was the Regen rework.

[KaizenSoze]

48 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

Tongue in cheek comment here, but let's face it, it's the only set that isn't overpowered, lol,

Fair point. 🙂

 

I would be happy to have regen overpowered as the others. As I said in another thread the game needs more optional high difficulty content like Aeon. At the moment I don't know who would think about taking a regen tank/brute/scrapper/staker onto a relentless run. Yes, I know tanker don't get regen.... yet.

 

Given the amount of changes the HC devs and made to under performing sets. I guess they must be having trouble coming up with a balanced fix to the set. I have faith they will fix it right. I mean look what they did with energy melee.

 

Another though about regen buffs. Probably already been suggested. Alpha strikes are the biggest weakness on regen. An constantly regenerating absorb shield could provide the buffer needed to handle the alpha. Also, scaling HP regen rates, like resist do for Super Reflexes. This would still require a lot of investment into resists and defense.

[Solarverse]

4 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

 An constantly regenerating absorb shield could provide the buffer needed to handle the alpha. Also, scaling HP regen rates, like resist do for Super Reflexes. This would still require a lot of investment into resists and defense.

Not too shabby of an idea.

[KaizenSoze]

38 minutes ago, cohRock said:

Part of the issue is simply expectations.  If you believe that any tank or brute should be able to solo a +4*8 mission or farm, then yeah, regen is weak.  If you believe such a concept it sort of silly on its face, then other protection sets are over-powered.  I'm sort of in the middle.  A sweet spot for a well developed brute or tank to solo might be better thought of as +2*5.  Or maybe +2*7 for a tank -- it would just take him forever.

The problem is the expectation is already there in the player base. The live devs never had time to add enough content with incarnate powers in mind.

 

I did a "Worthy Opponent" run a couple of weeks ago. No incarnates, no set bonuses, no super inspirations. It was a challenge, but a rather tedious one. Wailing on the same AV for 5 mins is boring. The same reason I find the Khan TF boring. So, I enjoy the extra power boosts from Incarnates and sets.

 

HC devs are on it. Nobody will probably be able to solo Aeon at max difficulty. Though the players is very creative, so they might find a hole.

[Troo]

Regeneration may not be for everyone.

If you don't like resist sets, you're likely not gonna like Regeneration either.

 

Could it use a little love, sure. (who would turn that down) 

Does it need a big rework.. no.

• It does have about 25% -regen resistance.
• MoG is available pretty often with no usage penalty.
• I agree that -recharge resistance would be a good place to look.

 

Porting it to Tankers:

As-is might be overpowered. It might be a set that is overpowered until a sudden cascading failure results in face-planting, which would impact the rest of the team very quickly. That said, in a team setting there are many buffs a Regen could benefit from that don't help others who are already capped.

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

20 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

I mean look what they did with energy melee.

 

They overbuffed it, then doubled down by overbuffing tanks and now my shield/nrg tank has the same ST damage output as my claws/sr scrapper.

 

Cuz that makes PERFECT sense.

[KaizenSoze]

The problem is coming up something that is not a willpower clone.

 

The concept in my mind falls inline with idea of regen, Wolverine.

 

The more damage taken the more durability. Basically, Fury but for defense, not offensive. At 100% HP you generate a absorb buffer for alphas, but lose the other bonuses. This would be probably difficult to balance.

 

You're happiest when you HP is below 50%. Might give the healers in the team an heart attack. 🙂

 

[Solarverse]

19 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

They overbuffed it, then doubled down by overbuffing tanks and now my shield/nrg tank has the same ST damage output as my claws/sr scrapper.

 

Cuz that makes PERFECT sense.

You and your ubber builds....

My WP/Energy Tank isn't doing anything like that, lol. Maybe about 3/4. But then again, I don't have procs in my attacks either, so maybe that's why. I had to build to make my WP survive rather than go for DPS Output.

[Luminara]

Word around the water cooler is that sentinel Regen is pretty good.  Or, at least, better than standard Regen.  Might be a usable template for spiffing up standard Regen.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Marine X said:

I imagine if they ever get around to porting Regen to Tanks they would have to return Instant Healing to a toggle.

I always thought that leaving it as just another boost to regeneration didn't do justice to the power name, and still think it should be changed so that it makes all incoming damage act the way Spectral Wounds does -- you take all the damage, then after a short period of time, an enhanceable fraction of that damage 'instantly' heals (i.e., if your IH was enhanced to 35% and you got hit for 100 points of damage, you would 'instantly' heal back 35 points). Because this would be applied once to each incoming hit, rather than healing you again and again until you are completely healed, it would make it easier to balance against the other defenses.

[KaizenSoze]

2 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

You and your ubber builds....

My WP/Energy Tank isn't doing anything like that, lol. Maybe about 3/4. But then again, I don't have procs in my attacks either, so maybe that's why. I had to build to make my WP survive rather than go for DPS Output.

I wish more players would run the Trapdoor sets and posts times and videos.

 

It's a great way to see how your build holds up in normal content and not a 801 or plyon test.

 

That way Bill and Solarverse could compare builds.

 

 

[Troo]

Instant Healing currently puts my Regen characters in the 1600% area. This would obviously be overpowered as a toggle. 

Would I trade the big number over two minutes for a smaller number full time + the endurance drag.. Personally, I just don't need it full time.

Instant Healing as a toggle + Dull Pain being able to perma just seems like a non starter. Too good for high end builds while lower levels suffer.

 

1 hour ago, cohRock said:

solo a +4*8 mission or farm, then yeah, regen is weak

 

Not disagreeing with your post @cohRock.

Just adding to it that some folks can solo 4x8 on regen without level shifts. (non-incarnate) (really, if folks can 4x8 on non-melee, folks could do it here)

 

I do have some concern about performance of regen at lower levels. At 30-32 my stalker has never really had any issues, maybe it just fits Stalkers or my playstyle.

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

You and your ubber builds....

My WP/Energy Tank isn't doing anything like that, lol. Maybe about 3/4. But then again, I don't have procs in my attacks either, so maybe that's why. I had to build to make my WP survive rather than go for DPS Output.

 

Have you seen my builds? They're not very good.

 

Both builds are my standard no more than 2 procs per attack (usually 5 purple and an extra proc to replace the damage only purple) high recharge.

 

It's rather telling that the devs were forced to nerf ET's crit, as in, if it can't crit for double damage on scrappers/stalkers, then it's too damn strong for tanks/brutes.

 

Yes, of course with like for like build, some nrg/shield scrapper I'd build would stomp the crap out of both of them, my nrg/bio/snipe scrapper certainly does, but it still remains a great example of how frelled things are now.

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

That way Bill and Solarverse could compare builds.

 

Ran it once with my main. My time compared to others in that thread leads straight into:

 

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Have you seen my builds? They're not very good.

 

[Troo]

Chasing defense on a regen character is a bit of a trap. It works until lack of DDR kicks in, then it is wasted.

 

Instead think of it as a resistance set.

1600% regeneration at 2400hp = ___ amount of resistance (resistance to all damage types)

Then add some actual typed resistance. In this way it is effectively a way to exceed resistance caps.

 

Just a different way of thinking.

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Troo
again, if you don't like resist sets, you're likely not gonna like Regeneration