I have a question about CoH culture.

[Brawlin]

(Asked on the reddit too but thought I might get some better answers here.)
 

For context I come from more modern MMO's like swtor and wow and using discord is the norm for most harder content.
 

Every single discord I have joined has balked at the idea of using discord to organize for content. I always get the response that you should just use their in-game chat channel or the in-game LFG.
 

So players of CoH are expected to be in CoH staring at chat (or a stream of LFG chat) hoping to either find likeminded people online looking to do the same content you are doing or hoping to find people currently forming for content you are looking to do.
 

I would launch CoH if I knew that someone was running content I would like to do and everyone I have talked to makes it seem like that's a foreign idea.
 

So my question is, why is the community of CoH so close minded to better ways of forming for content? I know the community is old but I feel like when you have tools like discord that give you access to 1000's of people who are interested in playing CoH and then not use it and instead use the LFG channel which is just straight up worse since people have to be at their computer, online, doing nothing, looking at chat and want to do your content.

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, Brawlin said:

So my question is, why is the community of CoH so close minded to better ways of forming for content?

Why should I have to rely on a completely different program/resource/community simply to play a game?  I don't like having to constantly leave the game just to play the game...

 

I mean, do whatever you like, but don't expect a game's community to be big into going outside of said game,  and for that activity to become commonplace, (while actually playing the game, I mean).

 

FYI, CoH and WoW launched around the same time.

Edited May 20, 2022 by biostem

[Brawlin]

Its not replacing, its supplementing. I have spent hours trying to get some content off the ground where there just isn't the interest (relentless ASF and even speed ASF). If someone is running it and I am not playing CoH I am going to miss it. When I would totally launch CoH and join them. I find myself wanting to play CoH less and less when I cant even find people for content or join people for content that I find interesting.

[Glacier Peak]

I've seen this aversion and honestly I think everyone is entitled to play however they want. Adding on requirements to have outside resources to play is not conducive to increase a game whose population is mostly returning players that more than likely relied entirely on in game chat and emails to communicate. For new players, this game probably seems a little archaic on that regard, but communicating over headset can really improve coordination during play. Just look at PvP, where spiking damage on a target (i.e. everyone activates their attack at the same time on a target to maximize damage output and defeat the target). Or 'Master of' badge runs, where defeating an enemy or staying outside of a killer beam is paramount. 

[Without_Pause]

I think I log onto Discord about once a quarter. I tried to get some people in my board game group to start using Discord, and it essentially went nowhere.

[biostem]

Just now, Brawlin said:

Its not replacing, its supplementing. I have spent hours trying to get some content off the ground where there just isn't the interest (relentless ASF and even speed ASF). If someone is running it and I am not playing CoH I am going to miss it. When I would totally launch CoH and join them. I find myself wanting to play CoH less and less when I cant even find people for content or join people for content that I find interesting.

To each their own, but it sounds a lot like you're adding a layer of "bookkeeping" that moves things further and further from actually playing the game.  It also doesn't help to come here and start your suggestion by calling people "close minded"...

[Yomo Kimyata]

I can think of a couple of reasons (I can't speak for anyone except me):

 

1.  Many of us are old farts who can't stand being called closed minded, and we generally need a pretty compelling reason to do things differently than we currently do.  If it is markedly easier or faster, sure, that's a great reason!

2.  I find Discord to be a disorganized piece of shit.  It's like Craig's List without anything humorous.

3.  There's virtually no content that is "hard" enough that you can't run through with a PuG.  Anything that requires coordination almost certainly has organized events already in place on the calendar.

4.  If no one is running content you want to do, it is trivial to start a team to do the content you want to do in real time, keeping in mind that it will be dependent on how many other people are on that shard at the same time.

5.  There is very little that you cannot solo if you cannot find a team.  This is pretty much similar to point 3.

6.  People get to play how they want to play.  Sounds like most of the people you are talking to don't want to play the way you want to play.  Quel dommage.

 

 

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I've seen this aversion and honestly I think everyone is entitled to play however they want. Adding on requirements to have outside resources to play is not conducive to increase a game whose population is mostly returning players that more than likely relied entirely on in game chat and emails to communicate.

It also doesn't translate to who's actually online at any given time - I *know* that the person that replied to in-game chat is actually there.  I have no idea if a person who expressed interest in Discord will actually come.  How long should we wait around for said person?  It just seems like a bunch of unnecessary steps for little gain...

[Sovera]

26 minutes ago, Brawlin said:

(Asked on the reddit too but thought I might get some better answers here.)
 

For context I come from more modern MMO's like swtor and wow and using discord is the norm for most harder content.
 

Every single discord I have joined has balked at the idea of using discord to organize for content. I always get the response that you should just use their in-game chat channel or the in-game LFG.
 

So players of CoH are expected to be in CoH staring at chat (or a stream of LFG chat) hoping to either find likeminded people online looking to do the same content you are doing or hoping to find people currently forming for content you are looking to do.
 

I would launch CoH if I knew that someone was running content I would like to do and everyone I have talked to makes it seem like that's a foreign idea.
 

So my question is, why is the community of CoH so close minded to better ways of forming for content? I know the community is old but I feel like when you have tools like discord that give you access to 1000's of people who are interested in playing CoH and then not use it and instead use the LFG channel which is just straight up worse since people have to be at their computer, online, doing nothing, looking at chat and want to do your content.

 

 

I'm sure some would use Discord. It is a different culture though and there's not much to be done other than adapting to it.

 

Personally I don't look much at what others are running because I log in and play what I want. Do I want to do an ITF? A Tinpex? An arc? I advertise and people join me instead of the other way around.

[arcane]

I have discord, but I despise being forced to use it because

 

(1) I love music (#1 hobby) and enjoy listening to it daily. No, I don’t consider playing music with people talking over it to be listening to music.

 

(2) If I don’t know you and trust you, why would I want your voice in my ears. (AKA discord with best friends is bearable. Discord because a random group wants to use it for a task? Yuck.)

 

(3) It’s basically social media.

 

(4) Anxiety.

 

(5) More reasons I can’t think of on the spot.

 

In most cases, nobody here cares. There isn’t any content hard enough to necessitate it. The exception is PvP. This is the number one reason I won’t PvP anymore. Because when Live CoH kicked the bucket, I realized that games like GW2 and ESO literally have constant casual arena-style PvP queueing all day long, and nobody ever asks you to get on discord unless you’re trying to join some elite squad of bigtime hotshots. Here? The assumption is basically that you either get on discord (and usually one very specific discord), or you have zero opportunities to engage in team arena-style PvP. I used to get over it and try to Ventrilo periodically on live, but nowadays that barrier to entry is simply too high.

Edited May 20, 2022 by arcane

[Oklahoman]

21 minutes ago, Brawlin said:

So players of CoH are expected to be in CoH staring at chat (or a stream of LFG chat) hoping to either find likeminded people online looking to do the same content you are doing or hoping to find people currently forming for content you are looking to do.

 

Or leading said content.

 

Or joining an active supergroup.

 

Or looking at the player led event calendar on the official forums, which honestly should probably be used more.

 

Or ask in LFG if someone would be interested in running the content.

 

Just off the top of my head.

[El D]

Having been in Homecoming's Discord server for a while, CoH's community mostly uses it as an extension of the forums - advertising for events, interacting with the dev team/mods, or hosting content that can't be run in-game (like long-term costume contests, scavenger hunts, supplying base building resources, etc.). It's more of a 'game-adjacent hangout' than an active recruiting tool, though there are a number of supergroups that post recruiting things there.

 

I'm sure there are times when groups have formed via Discord (there's been more than enough folks spotted in voice chat for it not to never have happened) but for the most part actively forming content is a thing that happens in the in-game chat channels.

 

The closest thing you might find for what you want is by joining a specific supergroup and their Discord server. My SG uses our Discord server to poke folks for task forces and urge them to get in-game, so I have to imagine others do the same - just not in the broad channels where it'd get either drowned out or skipped over.

Edited May 20, 2022 by El D

[Glacier Peak]

5 minutes ago, arcane said:

I have discord, but I despise being forced to use it because

 

(1) I love music (#1 hobby) and enjoy listening to it daily. No, I don’t consider playing music with people talking over it to be listening to music.

 

(2) If I don’t know you and trust you, why would I want your voice in my ears.

 

(3) It’s basically social media.

 

(4) Anxiety.

 

(5) More reasons I can’t think of on the spot.

 

In most cases, nobody here cares. There isn’t any content hard enough to necessitate it. The exception is PvP. This is the number one reason I won’t PvP anymore. Because when Live CoH kicked the bucket, I realized that games like GW2 and ESO literally have constant casual arena-style PvP queueing all day long, and nobody ever asks you to get on discord unless you’re trying to join some elite squad of bigtime hotshots. Here? The assumption is basically that you either get on discord (and usually one very specific discord), or you have zero opportunities to engage in team arena-style PvP. I used to get over it and try to Ventrilo periodically on live, but nowadays that barrier to entry is simply too high.

You're not missing anything. I would argue that jumping head first in to a raw sewage container would be healthier than listening to some people speak(?) on Discord. I'm pretty sure for some is entertaining, but for me it's right up there with eating glue and licking windows. 

[Erratic1]

48 minutes ago, Brawlin said:

(Asked on the reddit too but thought I might get some better answers here.)
 

For context I come from more modern MMO's like swtor and wow and using discord is the norm for most harder content.

 

As I recall, CoH came out the same year, though a bit earlier, as WoW.

 

Quote

Every single discord I have joined has balked at the idea of using discord to organize for content. I always get the response that you should just use their in-game chat channel or the in-game LFG.
 

So players of CoH are expected to be in CoH staring at chat (or a stream of LFG chat) hoping to either find likeminded people online looking to do the same content you are doing or hoping to find people currently forming for content you are looking to do.
 

I would launch CoH if I knew that someone was running content I would like to do and everyone I have talked to makes it seem like that's a foreign idea.
 

So my question is, why is the community of CoH so close minded to better ways of forming for content? I know the community is old but I feel like when you have tools like discord that give you access to 1000's of people who are interested in playing CoH and then not use it and instead use the LFG channel which is just straight up worse since people have to be at their computer, online, doing nothing, looking at chat and want to do your content.

 

You can use a voice program while playing CoH. My friends and I did back in the day.

 

But the content is not so hard it is necessary and I am not seeing how forming is aided in CoH or any other mmo by voice being available. Typically there are in-game methods of being paired and that is what happens in CoH. As for actually playing the content,  again, someone calling out dangers or calling for certain roles to do something at a specific time is not the nature of the fights in CoH. 

 

So while you can certainly hang out in a Discord channel and have fun, quite frankly I type fast enough that for the most part any communication I need to relay (or jokes more likely) can be done while fighting. And that negates the need to communicate what channel and use a program (which I admittedly have installed and running all the time, but that is me...other people are different).

Edited May 20, 2022 by Erratic1

[Brawlin]

Alright, clearly there is a disconnect between what I am talking about and what everyone is assuming. I was not talking about voice chat because for most content outside of badge runs its not necessary even then its iffy. I was strictly talking about getting groups together for content since nearly everytime I try and get a group together for relentless vanguard ASF I get met with silence. Even simple speeds I have to spam LFG/opt-in channels to get anyone at all for a long time.

[Luminara]

11 minutes ago, Brawlin said:

So my question is, why is the community of CoH so close minded to better ways of forming for content? I know the community is old

 

Yup.  We've been down that road.  Teamspeak, Ventrillo, now Discord is the buzz, we just don't care.  We're old and we just want to log in and play, without juggling a bunch of devices and programs while doing it.  Been there, done that, using the t-shirt to polish badges.

 

13 minutes ago, Brawlin said:

but I feel like when you have tools like discord that give you access to 1000's of people who are interested in playing CoH

 

Voice chat programs never brought in thousands of players when the game was on the original servers.  IM programs were around for fifteen years before that, and they never had an impact, either.  If there were thousands of players just itching to jump into our 20 year old MMO, I strongly doubt the lack of interest in Discord amongst the established player base is discouraging those potential new recruits.  If they really wanted to play, they would.  If they really wanted to use Discord while playing or to plan out their play, they would.  Whether or not a thousand or two existing players are on the app is irrelevant.

 

17 minutes ago, Brawlin said:

and then not use it and instead use the LFG channel which is just straight up worse since people have to be at their computer, online, doing nothing, looking at chat and want to do your content.

 

Chat channels facilitate group play better than voice chat/instant messaging/forum-style communication.  They offer an immediacy which is lacking in external programs.  Recruiting through chat channels in-game ensures that all of the potential party members are there, already prepped and ready to go, not sitting on the sofa playing Mario Kart, glancing at the phone every few minutes to see if there's something starting in another game.  That's another several minutes the group has to wait for the Discord user to haul his/her ass off of the sofa, go to the computer, launch the game, log in, select a character, realize he/she is on the wrong server, log out, go to the server selection screen, pick the correct server, log back in on a character, decide he/she wants the badges/merits on another character instead, log out, switch characters, log back in...

 

Yeah, no.  That's not immediate, that's excruciating.  In-game content requires in-game presence, and you're not in the game if you're not in the game.  That's why we have in-game chat channels, so no-one has to wait any longer than necessary.  If you want to be part of a team, you be in the game and ready to accept an invitation, or to send out invitations, not playing another game while checking your IMs or listening to someone tell a funny story.

 

Additionally, you can't have fifty people all talking at the same time on VoIP and have anything comprehensible, and posting to an IM app from your phone isn't functionally any different from watching the in-game channel, you're still staring at text.  Yes, you do have to be logged in to Co* to see Co* chat channels, but you also have to be logged in to play the game.  No-one wants to wait for someone to "get around" to playing, eventually, when they agree to join a group.  They want that person there yesterday, not next week.  Butt-kicking for goodness waits for no man or woman.

 

If you prefer Discord, by all means, use it.  Bring some of those thousands of people and use it with them.  Then your conundrum will be resolved.

[Erratic1]

3 minutes ago, Brawlin said:

Alright, clearly there is a disconnect between what I am talking about and what everyone is assuming. I was not talking about voice chat because for most content outside of badge runs its not necessary even then its iffy. I was strictly talking about getting groups together for content since nearly everytime I try and get a group together for relentless vanguard ASF I get met with silence. Even simple speeds I have to spam LFG/opt-in channels to get anyone at all for a long time.

 

I do not recall across long years of playing WoW using a voice program to get together a PUG. 

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Brawlin said:

I was strictly talking about getting groups together for content since nearly everytime I try and get a group together for relentless vanguard ASF I get met with silence. Even simple speeds I have to spam LFG/opt-in channels to get anyone at all for a long time.

But what is the basis for your belief that, even if everyone was on Discord, that there'd suddenly be interest in the TFs/SFs/Trials you wanted to run?  I mean, LFG and such are visible by default in CoH, so if you're being met with silence, it probably means that there isn't interest in general.  I can hop on with one of my 50s at virtually any hour, advertise I'm going to run some 54 Council missions in PI, and get flooded with tells asking to join, so I don't think it's because there aren't any eyes on what you're putting out there...

[Erratic1]

Having played Lost Ark in its Western release in February, people are not forming groups via voice programs. Most groups you join are put together by the game and everything is via typed chat.

 

 Is that not a modern game?

[biostem]

As an aside, I play Fallout 76 a lot, and the complete lack of any text chat makes things quite annoying - you're stuck to using in-game emotes or voice ONLY...

[PeregrineFalcon]

5 minutes ago, Brawlin said:

Alright, clearly there is a disconnect between what I am talking about and what everyone is assuming.

Almost every time I play Homecoming I'm on Discord with friends. When I played on the retail servers I was almost always on Skype with friends.

 

Multiple times on both forums I've asked people why they don't talk with friends or fellow forumites on VOIP. Not PuGs. Not randos. Not people from 4chan. People they actually know, possibly IRL.

 

The negative responses that I've always received were always weird and nonsensicle. Best I can figure is that the people who play CoH are just allergic to the very idea of actually speaking to another human being while playing City of Heroes.

[Erratic1]

1 minute ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Almost every time I play Homecoming I'm on Discord with friends. When I played on the retail servers I was almost always on Skype with friends.

 

Multiple times on both forums I've asked people why they don't talk with friends or fellow forumites on VOIP. Not PuGs. Not randos. Not people from 4chan. People they actually know, possibly IRL.

 

The negative responses that I've always received were always weird and nonsensicle. Best I can figure is that the people who play CoH are just allergic to the very idea of actually speaking to another human being while playing City of Heroes.

 

When I play with friends I am in voice chat. Heck, when I am playing different games than they are playing we are often in voice chat.

 

What is being asked about here is gathering groups together via voice chat--something I am not really aware of happening in any game.

[Peacemoon]

I find discord (and voice chat) takes me out of the immersion of the game, and so I find it more peaceful and enjoyable without it.
Also I find it a bit awkward speaking to strangers on voice. Now if it’s friends you already know that’s fine, as it’s like hanging out, but also completely different!

 

CoH is a pretty casual game that often doesn’t need voice chat levels of communication to work.

Even in other MMOs voice chat is generally limited to guild/community groups with people you are familiar with and not often used for strangers. 
Also some people are just really annoying on voice chat. Some get really angry when they die and it puts everyone else off. Others won’t shut up and give the group a break. And others can be really INTENSE (I’ve experienced all of these and often had the unfortunate task of trying to moderate this!).

 

Now you could use the discord server as a pure LFG tool, but ingame tools is the best place for that. There are official and unofficial channels for LFG? I’m sure there are improvements that can be made.

[Brawlin]

6 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

What is being asked about here is gathering groups together via voice chat--something I am not really aware of happening in any game.

Discord is more then just a voice platform. I am talking about its awesome text communication to form groups. I was never talking about voice chat, voice chat was never the focus of this discussion.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Brawlin
More clarification.

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Almost every time I play Homecoming I'm on Discord with friends. When I played on the retail servers I was almost always on Skype with friends.

I play at very weird hours, so I neither have the desire or the need to be talking to my computer or don a headset at like 3AM.

 

7 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Multiple times on both forums I've asked people why they don't talk with friends or fellow forumites on VOIP. Not PuGs. Not randos. Not people from 4chan. People they actually know, possibly IRL.

Almost none of my IRL friends play MMOs anymore, much less at the hours I mentioned above.

 

7 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

The negative responses that I've always received were always weird and nonsensicle. Best I can figure is that the people who play CoH are just allergic to the very idea of actually speaking to another human being while playing City of Heroes.

Some of us like to RP, and hearing the voice of the actual player behind a character severely breaks that immersion for me.   Wanting to play the game instead of holding voice conversations is also not my idea of a relaxing experience.  I have to talk on the phone a lot for my day job, so going home to basically do the same is not my idea of a way to unwind/relax.  Do what you like, but don't act like others not doing things the way you prefer is "nonsensicle"...