Make super strength great again

[Lazarillo]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Is that current active, in testing, or still only a proposal?

Basically, people whined that the straight up buff didn't benefit them because they wanted to stack it and be immune to the crash, and the devs said "well, fine, if you're going to complain that it's not OP enough, then how about no buff at all?"  Given how it all went down, it's pretty unlikely they'll revisit it, sadly.

 

5 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Sure, it doesn't do any damage

I mean, in fairness, most Super Strength players of note claim they can never tell when they're doing damage anyway.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Lazarillo

[Major_Decoy]

18 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

 it's pretty unlikely they'll revisit it, sadly.

At some point, they're going to port Super Strength over to scrappers, I'm sure. I don't think they'll do that before they're happy with the way Rage works.

 

I don't know. I've gotten two Super Strength tanks to fifty and I didn't take Rage on either one. The mag 16 stun was just too risky for my tastes (and with six slotted acc/dam enhancements, if I remember correctly, they used to be +50% accuracy and +50% damage, and the tanker damage cap used to be 300%, so Rage was pointless) and on the new servers, I'd just gotten used to playing without it. I only kind of wish I had more damage when I hit a sapper with knock-out blow and have to use another attack.

[Erratic1]

3 hours ago, krj12 said:

Make it so the rage buff has a cap, so even if you do double stack rage, it wont provide any benefit beyond that cap.    Then lose the crash, problem solved.

 

At that point just prevent the power from stacking. Thing is people would still reduce its recharge so it was always up..

[Erratic1]

18 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

At some point, they're going to port Super Strength over to scrappers, I'm sure. I don't think they'll do that before they're happy with the way Rage works.

 

Will they in its present state? Stackable damage buff with crits....

 

Who cares if you crash because everything is dead?

 

 

Edit: But if while you were raging you couldn't crit.....

Edited May 25, 2022 by Erratic1

[Spaghetti Betty]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Will they in its present state? Stackable damage buff with crits....

This is exactly why I want them to do it. It would be funny.

[Major_Decoy]

Knock-out blow wouldn't crit. In Energy Melee, Power Transfer gets the "double charge" instead of crits. I don't know what knock-out blow would get though.

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

Knock-out blow wouldn't crit. In Energy Melee, Power Transfer gets the "double charge" instead of crits. I don't know what knock-out blow would get though.

In Eastern European via English parlance.

"To make GO SKVISH!"

[Zeraphia]

I'm just going to have to say... I can't agree. I think the set is absolutely fine. The set is "great" and while great may not be "the best" I think it's in a far better place than (honestly) the majority of melee sets. 

 

It has an AoE knockup T9, the AoE is phenomenal even if it does come a bit late in the set, the rage is permanent and can be double-stacked, it has extremely high single target DPS, and smashing damage isn't nearly as badly typed as lethal in monster resistances. It's arguably the second best melee set in the game.

[arcane]

Super Strength is already great. Phenomenal damage counterbalanced with a little baby crash. It is admittedly not “the best” set across the board but not every set can be that so that’d be a silly point.
 

@PeregrineFalcon can we get the official ruling from Judge Joe.

Edited May 25, 2022 by arcane

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

 

@PeregrineFalcon can we get the official ruling from Judge Joe.

 

Super Strength is fine as is. It doesn't need to be buffed. The crash lasts for 10 whole seconds, deal with it.

 

Case dismissed!

[Sovera]

59 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

 

Super Strength is fine as is. It doesn't need to be buffed. The crash lasts for 10 whole seconds, deal with it.

 

Case dismissed!

 

The devs don't need to be defended. It's a suggestion forum, suggestions are made. Devs see them. Devs decide to implement them. Or not. Lawyering from players is not a part of the equation.

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 minute ago, Sovera said:

The devs don't need to be defended. It's a suggestion forum, suggestions are made. Devs see them. Devs decide to implement them. Or not. Lawyering from players is not a part of the equation.

1) I'm not defending the developers.

2) If you'd read the posts above you'd have seen that my post was a joke. A joke that was specifically asked for by another poster.

3) Grow a sense of humor.

[Greycat]

16 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'm all for buffs, but I don't think this one is needed.  What I do during rage crash is use Judgment, Taunt, temp powers, or heals/buffs/debuffs from my other powersets or pools.

 

The Sands of Mu temp power is prety much my go-to for this, too. Not affected by the crash at all.

 

Edit: Of everything, I wouldn't mind damage in hand clap - even minor - for the sake of a little earlier AOE. *shrug* There are... *checks* two, apparently, procs that might give some, and that's it.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Greycat

[Lazarillo]

8 hours ago, Zeraphia said:

the rage is permanent and can be double-stacked

It's not permanent.  In fact, it has a mandatory "twiddle-your-thumbs time" during which you'll be just as productive by hitting alt-tab.

And all double-stakcing does is increase the amount of time you're hit with the mandatory downtime.

 

And that's really the heart of the matter.  SS is the only set in the game that has to pay a penalty to achieve "run-of-the-mill" when not penalized.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Lazarillo

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

The devs don't need to be defended. It's a suggestion forum, suggestions are made. Devs see them. Devs decide to implement them. Or not. Lawyering from players is not a part of the equation.

It's a suggestion forum. By its very nature, it makes community lawyering both for and against the suggestion part of the equation. Otherwise it would not be a forum, it would be a blind suggestion message to the devs that the rest of the community would not be able to see. Edit: Let alone post comments on.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Rudra

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Lazarillo said:

It's not permanent.  In fact, it has a mandatory "twiddle-your-thumbs time" during which you'll be just as productive by hitting alt-tab.

And all double-stakcing does is increase the amount of time you're hit with the mandatory downtime.

 

And that's really the heart of the matter.  SS is the only set in the game that has to pay a penalty to achieve "run-of-the-mill" when not penalized.

I don't understand this. Even when Rage crashes, the character is not rendered unable to take actions. When is the character subjected to mandatory twiddle your thumbs time? You suffer a 10 s penalty to defense and an endurance drop. That does not render you combat incapable.

[PeregrineFalcon]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I don't understand this. Even when Rage crashes, the character is not rendered unable to take actions. When is the character subjected to mandatory twiddle your thumbs time? You suffer a 10 s penalty to defense and an endurance drop. That does not render you combat incapable.

The person you're responding to is one of those that wants Super Strength to be the highest damage powerset in game. You can tell by one of his earlier posts where he wrote:

 

16 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

I mean, in fairness, most Super Strength players of note claim they can never tell when they're doing damage anyway.

Which is clearly untrue.

 

Also, he's one of those that conveniently forgets that while the crash is in effect the character can still Taunt and do damage with vet powers like Sands of Mu (as Greycat pointed out), Undead Slaying Axe, or Nemesis Staff.

 

As I said earlier. There's no point in even responding to these folks. They'll never admit that they're wrong, their statements are provably false and they're clearly just trolling.

[Lazarillo]

16 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You suffer a 10 s penalty to defense and an endurance drop.

And no damage.  Thus, again, not permanent.  Rage has an enforced period of time during which you cannot derive a benefit from Rage.  Furthermore, stacking Rage, increases the amount of time that you are forced into downtime for.

[ShardWarrior]

19 hours ago, Sovera said:

beats up pylons in pretty top tier echelons

 

How many missions have Pylons in them?  Pylon testing is ok and all, however it is not necessarily normal gameplay.  I would agree SS is not up to par with other sets unless you double stack Rage.  SS simply does not compare to a set like EM in my opinion.  Not even close.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

And no damage.  Thus, again, not permanent.  Rage has an enforced period of time during which you cannot derive a benefit from Rage.  Furthermore, stacking Rage, increases the amount of time that you are forced into downtime for.

I avoid taking Rage. I don't like it. I prefer using Assault even though it gives a lesser benefit because it is always on. However, I do have a brute with Rage. And when Rage crashes, I am not subject to a period of time of any length where my damage is 0. What version of Rage are you using? Because the version I am using does not match.

[Lazarillo]

3 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Also, he's one of those that conveniently forgets that while the crash is in effect the character can still Taunt and do damage with vet powers like Sands of Mu (as Greycat pointed out), Undead Slaying Axe, or Nemesis Staff.

I don't forget that.  But I can also taunt and do damage with all my Claws powers all the time.  I don't have to fall back into non-concept powers that won't cover the entire downtime anyway, and yet still add meaningless clutter to my power tray.

 

4 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Which is clearly untrue.

Really?  Then why is one of the excuses for Rage to have a crash so often "it's only 10 seconds I never even notice"?

 

6 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

The person you're responding to is one of those that wants Super Strength to be the highest damage powerset in game.

You're not entirely wrong: I think that if SS is the only set that is penalized with mandatory downtime, it should also be comparably ahead-of-the-curve.  But I've said in the past that if they wanted to, say, nerf Titan Weapons so that it did 0 damage on any attack that built Momentum, that would at least balance things, for example.

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

How many missions have Pylons in them?  Pylon testing is ok and all, however it is not necessarily normal gameplay.  I would agree SS is not up to par with other sets unless you double stack Rage.  SS simply does not compare to a set like EM in my opinion.  Not even close.

EM is not the measuring stick you use for balance though. Again, there can be only one best, so citing the best is not useful. Balance must occur around averages, not extremes.

[Lazarillo]

Just now, Rudra said:

However, I do have a brute with Rage. And when Rage crashes, I am not subject to a period of time of any length where my damage is 0. What version of Rage are you using? Because the version I am using does not match.

I'm not using any version of it because I deliberately avoid playing the game in ways that encourage not alt-tabbing as the most viable use of time (such as SS, or missions against Nemesis).

However, the one I'm discussing the one that has this in its power attributes:

Quote

-9990% Damage (All) Strength (self only) for 10s after 120s

...which is all versions of the power accessible to players.

[arcane]

I believe damage procs also fire at their full amounts during Rage, not just Taunt, Heals, Temp Powers, etc. To say nothing of spending that time herding, repositioning, pulling, etc.

 

Seems people hate the “feel” of Rage but can’t provide any evidence that it is performing below the median/average melee powerset. Comparisons to singular sets say nothing about balance.

Edited May 25, 2022 by arcane

[Rudra]

It is not listed in Mids that way and as I said, even after Rage crashing, I still do damage. Guess my version is bugged. *shrug* I'll count my blessings that a bug is actually benefiting me then.