Power Set Exclusivity

[Bojutsu]

Hello. How do you feel about so many power sets being available to so many archetypes?

Do you like how each archetype has so many options available?

Or would you prefer that the game goes back to some power sets being exclusive to an archetype?

Maybe you think some of the power sets don't seem like a good fit with certain archetypes.

For example, I'm not crazy about the idea of a Stone Stalker. I think the look/feel/style/theme of Stone seems to be a best fit for Tankers or Brutes. I also don't think certain power sets seem right for Tankers, such as Martial Arts, Spines, or Claws. 

Or maybe it doesn't matter at all...

What do you think?

Thanks for your responses.

[biostem]

I'm in favor of more options for everyone.  The issue is that not everyone has the same vision about how each AT should be portrayed.  What if I can come up with a good explanation as to why I have a stone stalker or martial artist tanker?

[Six-Six]

My head canon behind it is that powers are powers that manifest in the mutant or metahuman. The AT is how they choose to use it. So no, powers need not be exculsive to a specific AT. As it is the game does something that's better and that is making a certain aspect of the power available only to a given AT. For example, Dark as a general power can be used as armour by melee types, as devastating attacks by Blasters, Corruptors (and not so devastating by) Sentinels, Fenders, MMs; and similarly as control by Doms and Trollers. All of them are Dark, but each of them are quite different in application. So to me picking an AT translates to how you hone your powers.

In fact, I'd motion to have all the powers spread out to all the ATs... in their respective flavours, of course. Like Sentinels get Shied Defense, or Blasters get Psi-Blade, etc.

[biostem]

I just wish we had more ways of depicting our powers - like longer, more elongated stone shards and spears for stalkers...

[MrAxe]

The greatest element of CoH is the customization. More options for everyone is only a good thing.

[cranebump]

Also in favor of more animation choices. Though I would like to have shuriken (martial assault) for a blaster or a sentinel.

Edited May 28, 2022 by cranebump

[El D]

When it comes to powersets for the regular gamut of ATs, I think if it's a fitting set for their role then they should absolutely get access to it. Titan Weapon Stalkers? Super Strength Scrappers? Yes please. If someone doesn't think that a particular powerset fits the AT, the determining decision there should be their choice to just not play that set rather than being a blanket restriction forced on to every player in the game.

 

That said, I do still get the reasoning behind that idea. Titan Weapons doesn't innately scream 'stealthy assassin,' nor does Super Strength say 'technical fighter' - animation-wise, they both look like perfect Brute/Tanker sets. However, in a game that's all about customization and freedom of choice to make the character the player wants to play... Why limit them? Besides, Titan Weapons are no less stealthy than Radiation Armor, Fiery Aura, or somehow having Regeneration turn the character invisible. <.< It should be up to the player to find an interesting way to explain how the powerset works for their character (if they even want to - 'I just wanted to play an X with Y powers' is fine too!).

 

Also, I find it interesting that this type of discussion only really gets applied to Melee archetypes. I suppose it's because they're the only ATs with a perceived 'fighting style' difference based on their roles - Tankers should be 'big, protective meatshields with sacks of hitpoints,' Scrappers/Stalkers should be 'lean, precise killing machines,' and Brutes should be 'reckless juggernauts of murder-death-kill.' When it comes to proliferation for say, control sets? Or support sets? Nobody argues that any set with mostly mezzes is more Dominator or more Controller. Or if a set built around team buffs fits better for a Defender vs a Corruptor. Their roles are much more clear-cut and so long as their set Does The Thing, nobody takes issue with it. Range Damage is Ranged Damage, Control is Control, and Support is Support, except Melee ATs are a bit more muddled because they're all Melee ATs (with the difference being in how the character melees).

 

Assault Rifle/Dual Pistols are basically the Broadsword/Claws of Ranged Damage set, and I never saw anyone remark that Blasters or Corruptors deserved one over the other based on the merits of their AT. It was more directed at added concept customization - wanting Assault Rifle attacks from mecha gauntlets, or alternate Dual Pistol animations that weren't as extravagant. Which I also totally want, but that's for a different thread. >.>

Edited May 28, 2022 by El D

[TheOtherTed]

While I'm not likely to play a Stone/* (or */Stone) stalker, I'll bet someone out there has a great character concept for it that actually makes sense.  If someone wants to do it, why would I oppose that?  At the very least, expectation-subversion or even just a quirky sense of humor can provide great inspiration for "off-brand" power combos.

 

Also:

48 minutes ago, cranebump said:

shuriken (martial assault)

Today I learned that this is actually a thing.

[Random Axis]

8 hours ago, biostem said:

I just wish we had more ways of depicting our powers - like longer, more elongated stone shards and spears for stalkers...

I've always thought it would be a neat option for melee attacks to have an option between a weapon or what I think of as "elemental boxing gloves". For example, fire manip's sword attacks would have either current hit with the sword or a punch with flaming fists. And I guess get renamed to Fire Swipe or something.

[Zhym]

On a related note, it would be interesting if origin mattered somehow.  It used to matter a lot back in the early days of live—your origin determined your initial contact and the contacts they’d give you.  When offered a choice of introductions to new contacts, picking the right one could be the difference between having a place to buy enhancements you could use at a good price vs. not being able to use their enhancements at all.

 

But between the reduced importance of SOs vs IOs and the ease of buying SOs at any vendor, plus the near irrelevance of the origin contacts, origins are almost meaningless now.  The only things I can think of where origin matters anymore are the P2P attack powers (e.g., Nemesis Staff, Blackwand) that have bonuses for certain origins.  
 

I don’t know whether we’d want origin to matter more—most of the changes that have made origin irrelevant are positive QOL changes IMO.  But maybe it would be fun to have something to make Agent Six less lonely, for example.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Zhym

[DougGraves]

I want to play what I want.  I don't care what others play.

 

So not being able to play a dual pistols dominator is annoying.  I would rather all sets be available everywhere if possible.

[Snarky]

I always like more options.  I am a character creator.  Give me limited options and there is only so much I can do.   With CoHs many ATs, power options, and costume design choices there are many opportunities 

 

I wish there was MORE customization available.  Fore with a secondary effect of -resist instead of +damage. Energy blast with a secondary effect of +damage instead of knockback.  Etc.  
 

But the poor old games coding can probably only handle so much and the Devs time is a gift that is not infinite 

[momentarygrace]

I wish Illusion Control was available to more than just Controllers. 

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, momentarygrace said:

I wish Illusion Control was available to more than just Controllers. 

Do you mean completely unchanged, or do you mean something like an illusions set tailored for the different ATs, like a MM set centered around summoning illusions, or maybe some sort of illusory debuff set...

[Clave Dark 5]

I think all sets should be available to everyone, even TW for Stalkers, atho on is face that doesn't make a lick of sense (neither does a flaming stalker with fire armor or whatever).  But, I do like it when the set isn't just cookie-cuttered across ATs but carefully tailored to each strength and weakness of the AT.  I know that requires more work, but it's better than just replaying the same set just on a different toon.

[Braddack]

i am always up for more choices, makes Building Toons more fun.

[momentarygrace]

19 hours ago, biostem said:

Do you mean completely unchanged, or do you mean something like an illusions set tailored for the different ATs, like a MM set centered around summoning illusions, or maybe some sort of illusory debuff set...

 

I do think some version of Illusion Control could work for MMs, Corruptors and possibly Dominators.  Anyone want to throw pros and cons?

[Greycat]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:59 AM, Bojutsu said:

 

For example, I'm not crazy about the idea of a Stone Stalker. I think the look/feel/style/theme of Stone seems to be a best fit for Tankers or Brutes. I also don't think certain power sets seem right for Tankers, such as Martial Arts, Spines, or Claws. 

 

 

 

 

See, that's the nice thing about proliferated powers.

 

If someone wants a Stone Stalker, it fits the concept they have or whatever? They can make it.

On the flip side, if you don't like it? You don't have to make it.

 

More options are good. You're free to skip the ones you don't like.

[Snarky]

On 5/28/2022 at 11:28 PM, Clave Dark 5 said:

I think all sets should be available to everyone, even TW for Stalkers, atho on is face that doesn't make a lick of sense (neither does a flaming stalker with fire armor or whatever).  But, I do like it when the set isn't just cookie-cuttered across ATs but carefully tailored to each strength and weakness of the AT.  I know that requires more work, but it's better than just replaying the same set just on a different toon.

Flaming armor on a fire stalker.   
 

Take one demon.  Powers are stealth and fire.   Sure it is on fire all the time.   It mostly in an alternate sidestepped dimension space.  Then it spots the chosen target.  Boo!   You’re dead!

Edited May 30, 2022 by Snarky

[momentarygrace]

On 5/28/2022 at 1:25 PM, biostem said:

Do you mean completely unchanged, or do you mean something like an illusions set tailored for the different ATs, like a MM set centered around summoning illusions, or maybe some sort of illusory debuff set...

 

I haven't really thought it out too much but off the top of my head, the latter - I think there could be a support set that would allow for a blinding debuff for bosses, maybe a multi-target confuse, Group Invisibility would work as is maybe, some kind of multi-target fear.

 

Or you could go another direction and make it a complete minions/MM primary with first level minions being rabbits.... 🐇🐇🐇

[biostem]

12 minutes ago, momentarygrace said:

I haven't really thought it out too much but off the top of my head, the latter - I think there could be a support set that would allow for a blinding debuff for bosses, maybe a multi-target confuse, Group Invisibility would work as is maybe, some kind of multi-target fear.

My only concern with what you proposed is that it'd be too similar to illusion control - you don't want too much redundancy.  Consider how darkness control differs from darkness affinity...

[Player2]

I really dislike exclusivity.  I look at powerset theme as the character's powers and the AT as the means in which they choose to focus that power.  Ice, for example...  anyone can have ice powers... but do you shoot the ice at people, wrap yourself in it for defense, cut them with icy blades, or make people slip and fall and freeze in their tracks?  And even when you pick a theme, you can have multiple options open to you...  ice melee?  Slow and steady or more aggressive?  Ice blast, but are you damage primary or supplement it with more cold to debuff enemies?  Ice control... but with secondary focus on buff/debuff or more damage?

 

That's great for ice... and fire... and energy...  but what about storm powers?  Yeah, you pretty much have to be a defender, corruptor, controller, or mastermind for that.  There's no storm armor...  there's no storm blast or manipulation.  Storm Summoning as a set is pretty focused around the buff/debuff dynamic.  It might be nice to see a storm armor set for brutes and tanks and scrappers (but might be too "noisy" for stalkers), but that might require a lot of revamping of the powers to fit into the armor powers mold.  Storm Manipulation for blasters might be more doable... but it would probably feel too limited as most Blaster secondaries focus on single targets and self buffing, while storm is more AoE debuff.  Sad, because I would love to see more stormy options.

[The Larker]

I'd like to make a Bots/Gravity MM, or a SS/Illusion Armor brute or a Inv/Dual Pistols tank or a Storm/Broadsword defender.

 

Yes, they could be made on the defender you already have the animations from the magic Praetorian arcs with swords and the swords from Apex, so animated swords that are ranged attacks.

 

You could literally make anything you wanted, its just time and money.

[Bojutsu]

Does anyone know why Scrappers still can't have Super Strength?

 

Sorry if I missed this being discussed previously.

 

Thank you.

[Skoochy]

11 minutes ago, Bojutsu said:

Does anyone know why Scrappers still can't have Super Strength?

 

Sorry if I missed this being discussed previously.

 

Thank you.

Double stacked rage + procs + crits probably have something to do with it.