knockback HOW can we stop mobs being blasted into walls?

[Thrones]

Add knockback to walls equal to the force of the original knockback. Let the fun begin.

[Fire Chief]

42 minutes ago, Thrones said:

Add knockback to walls equal to the force of the original knockback. Let the fun begin.

 

 

[Shred Monkey]

I'm sure this is a massive undertaking to fix unless someone comes up with a way to automate it, but I think root cause is the maps themselves.  They have places with geometry problems.  Places where a body fits into, if you land on it in just the right orientation and speed, but can't get out because there's no way to reorient yourself perfectly to get back out.  They need to do some rework of the maps to make the collision surfaces all smooth.  Go ahead and leave the visual textures that we all see the same, but remove the collision mechanics from them and add invisible surfaces over/under them all that are flat or rounded smoothly so there's nothing to get stuck on.  Also turn off the collision with CoT map torches while you're at it.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Shred Monkey

[Seed22]

On 7/7/2022 at 7:32 AM, Erratic1 said:

Solution 1: Knockback->Knockdown enhancements

Solution 2: Don't use knockback

That's not as easy though to do. Lots of fun sets have a decent amount of KB.

 

Energy Blast, PB's (kinda? But I find them less fun 😛 ), and WS kinda. So, to not utilize KB is to eliminate a lot of sets out of the game. I just wish there was a way to teach people how KB can be used effectively( and yes, KB is something you NEED to learn effectively. There is an objective right and wrong way to use it, no subjectivity anywhere in how it's used.)

[Seed22]

On 7/7/2022 at 7:58 AM, Herotu said:

Choosing to NOT slot the IO isn't laziness, it's a decision to prioritise fun over the risk of geometry problems.

Well, that's your fun. I've had KB'ers ruin my AoE's, which I then turn into a challenge of how many mobs can I get to em before they fold? 

 

And that, that's my fun. But only if they do it purposefully or consistenly

Edited July 8, 2022 by Seed22

[Erratic1]

41 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

That's not as easy though to do. Lots of fun sets have a decent amount of KB.

 

Energy Blast, PB's (kinda? But I find them less fun 😛 ), and WS kinda. So, to not utilize KB is to eliminate a lot of sets out of the game. I just wish there was a way to teach people how KB can be used effectively( and yes, KB is something you NEED to learn effectively. There is an objective right and wrong way to use it, no subjectivity anywhere in how it's used.)

 

Most sets with KB only have a power or two with it. EB is its own special gift.

[Techwright]

On 7/7/2022 at 9:59 AM, Erratic1 said:

 

Do you see that often? Most Tankers want things nearby as most of their powers are melee ranged and a lot of Tanker secondary sets have no AoE KB powers to begin with.

 

My most recent Tanker (Rad/Claws) uses Shockwave, but that is mostly knocking foes into corners or up against walls. 

No statistic for it, but yes, I've been seeing it more often this year than in the past.  Not sure why. Still, that's probably 1 out of ever 25 pug teams or so, and that includes pug teams where people are swapping out between missions, like the Tina McIntyre arc.  Some of those go through enough changes to count for 4 pug teams.

 

I agree on where tankers want opponents placed.  I don't run my tanks often but when I do, I want group hugs for maximum slaughter arrests.

[Ukase]

On 7/7/2022 at 11:18 AM, Akalabeth said:

Uhm... though I've never had to try it, I think if people used the Self-Destruct power at the wall as a last resort instead of calling a gm I think it could work. 😞  It's only 100k at he P2W vendor so affordable to everyone really. 😞 

A fair enough idea, but then I'd have to retoggle. Pass. 
A better solution for me is to spawn a Snow Beast and let it deal with it. Sometimes, just dropping a lore pet on the head of the stuck npc is enough to get them loose. Or the aforementioned Snow Beast. Or TP target. Or Fold space.

[Player2]

Put AoE damage outside the walls that reaches only to the edge of the inside of the walls so that anything that gets knocked through a wall will die on its own.  Anyone getting punched or blasted through a wall shouldn't survive.

[SwitchFade]

New game engine.

 

Solv'd.

 

どういたしまして

[Troo]

Oo oo I might have a solution.

 

Stop being so mean to innocent targets found in unlikely places.

[Marshal_General]

Some mobs just want to be wallflowers.

[Rishidian]

This issue isn't how they get stuck, or that KB sux, or that you lost at Dragon Poker.  The problem is that it happens.

 

Isn't there a /stuck command for when your toon gets stuck in the geometry?

 

Why not a /target_stuck command that checks for local mobs that are stuck in the geometry, then moves them out of it.  If there isn't a mob found out of bounds, then it does nothing.

 

This way, it doesn't require a power to be used, or a new power to be created, and it doesn't require targeting.  Seems like it should be easy to implement.

[fancy ketchup]

4 hours ago, Rishidian said:

Isn't there a /stuck command for when your toon gets stuck in the geometry?

 

Why not a /target_stuck command that checks for local mobs that are stuck in the geometry, then moves them out of it.  If there isn't a mob found out of bounds, then it does nothing.

 

I always thought there should be something like this as well. I dont often get enemies stuck in walls but it can be tricky with certain powersets. I've never gotten or seen a mob stuck in a wall. 

 

If not this, a bandaid would be a tp foe inherent on a weekly recharge. Doesnt address the root cause tho and seems kinda weird having this in your powers..

Edited July 13, 2022 by fancy ketchup

[tidge]

On 7/7/2022 at 1:42 PM, catsi563 said:

Blast them into the ceiling *nod nod*

 

Last night I had a case where I knocked a Devouring Earth Lt into the ceiling where it spawned its eminator! Luckily those have a timer. That same mission made me grumpy because a spawned Swarm became part of the 'defeat all' and those things (now, for a long time) run-and-hide!

 

If there is a mitigation (not a fix), I feel like it would have to be something like a trigger for the map whereby if everyone leaves that the mobs get the equivalent of a /stuck command applied to them.

 

In my experience, this has been so very rare that I don't know if it is really necessary. There have been a handful of times (in 2+ years) with non-targetable mobs where I didn't have some sort of PBAoE and I had to reset the mission.

[Player2]

On 7/8/2022 at 7:50 AM, Shred Monkey said:

I'm sure this is a massive undertaking to fix unless someone comes up with a way to automate it, but I think root cause is the maps themselves.  They have places with geometry problems.  Places where a body fits into, if you land on it in just the right orientation and speed, but can't get out because there's no way to reorient yourself perfectly to get back out.  They need to do some rework of the maps to make the collision surfaces all smooth.  Go ahead and leave the visual textures that we all see the same, but remove the collision mechanics from them and add invisible surfaces over/under them all that are flat or rounded smoothly so there's nothing to get stuck on.

Maybe the HC team needs to go in and just drop a bunch of rocks (and/or other objects, as appropriate to the map) into the problem areas so that things can't be blasted into those areas.

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Player2 said:

Maybe the HC team needs to go in and just drop a bunch of rocks (and/or other objects, as appropriate to the map) into the problem areas so that things can't be blasted into those areas.

That's a Sisyphean task, given all of the places in the big gray tunnel maps where the walls slope inward, so a prone mob can be knocked to the edge and stand up outside the map from the waist up.

[SuggestorK]

On 7/7/2022 at 6:18 PM, Akalabeth said:

Uhm... though I've never had to try it, I think if people used the Self-Destruct power at the wall as a last resort instead of calling a gm I think it could work. 😞  It's only 100k at he P2W vendor so affordable to everyone really. 😞 

tried that with blaster Nukes (basically the energy and fire blaster nuke use the same mechanic) and it is not guaranteed to work, if the angle is not correct the damage wont reach the target and goes wasted too.

[Hyperstrike]

I don't know if anything can "be done" about it.
Generally it's cave-style maps that have this problem.
And trying to tweak these maps or fiddle the game engine to stop this is basically opening up a big slopping bucket of crazy for the devs.


So we're left with a couple options.

1: Don't use KB.
2: Keep someone around with TP other, or equivalent powers.
3: Use AoE powers to cook embedded enemies.

4: Get a GM.

[Uriahs Heep]

Look people...Your all over thinking this whole enemy stuck in wall problem.  The solution is so simple you can't see it.

Have the devs move all the walls back a foot or so. Boom...Problem alleviated.

 

Thanks,

   Heep

[tidge]

On 7/19/2022 at 3:59 PM, Uriahs Heep said:

Look people...Your all over thinking this whole enemy stuck in wall problem.  The solution is so simple you can't see it.

Have the devs move all the walls back a foot or so. Boom...Problem alleviated.

 

"Report Zone Geometry Issues Here"