Why does every TF have to be a +0 snooze fest?

[FungalGrowth]

Seems like every TF I join is set to +0 and then they skip half or more of it on top of that.  It's really not fun when every TF is unchallenging and shortcut to the nth degree.  Low reward, low fun.  It's so bad that I find myself not joining TF's that I need because I know it will almost certainly be some "speed run".  So I don't join and run it myself later. 

 

Which brings up my 2nd complaint.  Please fix the stupid difficulty bug where if the leader is not in the zone when someone enters the mission, the difficulty is NOT set to the leader's chosen difficulty.  I lead lots of TF's (because I hate the low reward, low fun speedy runs), but even when I am leader the difficulty still ends up being +0 on many of the missions because someone with a team teleport or mission teleport ends up getting into the mission before I can get into the zone.  This happens most frequently with team teleport when I am in the "2nd wave" of people teleported but also happens when I have a delivery to do and the rest of the team uses team teleport while I am in the delivery zone.  Very annoying.   

 

 

 

          

[Toenailgun]

The alternative is fighting the same spawn of enemies 200 times just to complete a TF for its badges and merits. How often do you form teams? Just advertise it's +2 or whatever. People do it every day.

 

As an aside, it was my impression the bug of not using the correct difficulty on a mission was fixed. Didn't happen last time I tried it. Is it still happening sometimes?

[arcane]

Team with different people. I mostly see +4.

[Appolaris]

9 minutes ago, Fingernailgun said:

As an aside, it was my impression the bug of not using the correct difficulty on a mission was fixed. Didn't happen last time I tried it. Is it still happening sometimes?

 

 

It wasn't fixed entirely.  It still occurs on several TFs/SFs/trials.

[tidge]

Anyone bored of TFs (Blue) could try SFs (Red). There is no guarantee that folks won't play those on cruise control, but the person who starts teh arc gets to set the parameters. Respecs (less so Treespecs, IMO) can be short, mindless fun that can be scaled in difficulty.

 

Blue side: The classic 6+1 TFs are necessary for an accolade, which makes this (points at self) player more than willing to run them as strictly perfunctory. After I have the accolade, I'll play them at whatever difficulty.

[FungalGrowth]

20 minutes ago, Fingernailgun said:

As an aside, it was my impression the bug of not using the correct difficulty on a mission was fixed. Didn't happen last time I tried it. Is it still happening sometimes?

Still happens a lot.   I lead at least two TFs per day on weekends and 1 or 2 on many weekdays as well, and I see it all the time.

[Ukase]

40 minutes ago, FungalGrowth said:

Seems like every TF I join is set to +0 and then they skip half or more of it on top of that.  It's really not fun when every TF is unchallenging and shortcut to the nth degree.  Low reward, low fun.  It's so bad that I find myself not joining TF's that I need because I know it will almost certainly be some "speed run".  So I don't join and run it myself later.           

I DO encourage you to seek out the fun the way you want to play. It's your time and you should kill-most at +4 or however you think best. It's just not the optimal way for those that want merits. Merits are what a number of players turn to because they can't stand the market. They'd rather use merits to get their purples and ATOs. (even though I've shared many times this is a foolish way to spend in-game currency!)



To answer the question in the post title: 

The primary reason it's a +0 "snooze fest" is because aside from the Dr. Aeon SF, you get the exact same merits whether you do it at +4 or -1. You get the same merits whether you do it with no enhancements or with no limitations at all. 

There's a fairly large sub-population of players who have no need of influence. XP? XP is meaningless, because if you look at a speed ITF done in 10 minutes  done 4 times vs the 40 minute kill most ITF, the former gives you more merits. Probably more inf, too, because you've clobbered the higher XP/INF AVs and EBs 4x as much. 

As far as fun goes, a lot of players think the kill-most is the snooze-fest. And when you're tackling something like a Citadel, the NPCs just have more Hitpoints; they don't have any extra special abilities to worry about. So, instead of tackling them in 1-2 shots, you have to hit them 2x as much. The extra inf/xp just isn't worth it, because you could just clobber the +0 NPCs faster in the same time frame. And have more time to get more merits doing something else. 

Personally, the only time I play a kill-most or kill-through is with an SG crawl team. I do this more for a few folks who just don't enjoy the faster pace as much as I do. When solo, I am not reading anything other than mission objectives. I'd sooner mash a couple of lucks than clobber mobs that would see me if I click a glowie while stealthed. It's just faster that way. 

I finish an arc faster, and am rewarded by the story arc completion XP/Inf bonus. By doing things faster, I get more merits in less time than the other player who kills most/through. 
Since we're not on the same team, we both win! 

Another reason for +0 is pugs. When you PUG, you have very little idea as to how capable or not your team is. There's even a small fraction of players that for reasons that escape me don't even buy enhancements until level 22 or so. Maybe even level 30. I can't imagine the frustration they feel between levels 19 and whenever they slot, due to Beginner's Luck running out. I always start a PUG at +0 (unless it's a 50 team with level shifts) and then let the group dictate how high they want to go. 
 

[Ukase]

24 minutes ago, tidge said:

Anyone bored of TFs (Blue) could try SFs (Red). There is no guarantee that folks won't play those on cruise control, but the person who starts teh arc gets to set the parameters. Respecs (less so Treespecs, IMO) can be short, mindless fun that can be scaled in difficulty.

 

Blue side: The classic 6+1 TFs are necessary for an accolade, which makes this (points at self) player more than willing to run them as strictly perfunctory. After I have the accolade, I'll play them at whatever difficulty.

Just to point out - unless you have some kind of blue alignment requirement, the TFC accolade is the exact same boost as Invader. And Invader is super easy once a character on your alt account has Schweinzer unlocked. I have Schweinzer unlocked on 4 different accounts and grab that accolade on each character sometime soon after I get a travel power. 

Unless I'm in pursuit of all badges, I'm not gonna get TFC via 6 TFs ever again. I'll get Invader every time. 

[Ironblade]

I only run at +0 for Positron and Synapse because we're so low level (and Synapse is torture).

Other than that, I run at +1 and as fast as possible when it's a weekly since I'm there for the Notice or the extra merits.

On the ITF, most people run at +3 or +4.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Ironblade said:

I only run at +0 for Positron and Synapse because we're so low level (and Synapse is torture).

Other than that, I run at +1 and as fast as possible when it's a weekly since I'm there for the Notice or the extra merits.

On the ITF, most people run at +3 or +4.

 

Not for speed runs of ITF. That's +0. Clear alls? Hell yea, +4 all the way.

[ShardWarrior]

Why not start your own TFs and set it to whatever difficulty you like?  So long as you make the rest of the team aware and they are all ok with the settings, I fail to see what the problem is here.  This seems to be a self inflicted problem. 

[Sovera]

Why are you running them at +0 if this displeases you...? Make your own, advertise it as a +2 or +3 or whatever.

[Appolaris]

This is one of the main reasons why I largely don't join PUG teams, but form my own instead.  I just simply can't play at +0, even for speed runs.  Too boring.  Any TF/SF/Trial that caps at level 25 or below, I'll run at +1.  Even Positron TF and Synapse TF.  Any TF/SF/Trial that caps between levels 30 - 49, I'll run at +2.  Any TF/SF/Trial that caps at level 50, I'll run at +2 minimum, although I prefer and usually run +3, and sometimes +4.  Even speed runs.  I just find playing at +0 (or +1 above level 25), to be a waste of time and too boring.  YMMV.

[Bill Z Bubba]

When I'm going for the TFC badge, I usually run the TFs at +0/x1 and solo them after finalizing the lvl 50 build and exemplaring down. Almost always takes less time than dealing with teams. Manticore with 3 AVs to take down being a possible exception.

[Appolaris]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

When I'm going for the TFC badge, I usually run the TFs at +0/x1 and solo them after finalizing the lvl 50 build and exemplaring down. Almost always takes less time than dealing with teams. Manticore with 3 AVs to take down being a possible exception.

 

 

FWIW, you could go Rogue, do the fourth red side Who Will Die? story arc in St. Martial (contact is Tyrka), obtain the Hero Slayer badge, unlock Lord Schweinzer in Port Oakes, and run all nine Mayhem missions.  Go in, get the exploration badge, get out, abandon the mission, grab the next Mayhem mission, rinse, repeat.  Between the Tyrka story arc and grabbing all nine exploration badges, it takes about 45 minutes.  Then go back to Hero or Vigilante.  Beats the heck out of running six TFs for Task Force Commander, IMO.

[Bill Z Bubba]

12 minutes ago, Appolaris said:

FWIW, you could go Rogue, do the fourth red side Who Will Die? story arc in St. Martial (contact is Tyrka), obtain the Hero Slayer badge, unlock Lord Schweinzer in Port Oakes, and run all nine Mayhem missions.  Go in, get the exploration badge, get out, abandon the mission, grab the next Mayhem mission, rinse, repeat.  Between the Tyrka story arc and grabbing all nine exploration badges, it takes about 45 minutes.  Then go back to Hero or Vigilante.  Beats the heck out of running six TFs for Task Force Commander, IMO.

 

What's really bizarre is I know this and still have only done it once. I never said I was smart.

[Six-Six]

Trying to read between the lines here, it seems like you're not complaining about how easy or unchallenging PUG TFs are, but instead are unhappy about being sheep forced to follow someone else's idea of fun. The obvious solution is to step up and start your own. Set your own difficulty. Most of them are doable solo regardless of your AT. It boils down to how good your build is and how well you strategise. Or, what I've found to be the most enjoyable is to form a team WITH PEOPLE YOU KNOW, more specifically people whose play style you know. a 3- or 4-man team brings out the best in team dynamics.

Bottom line is, the game itself is easy anyway you look at it. It's up to you to make it challenging. Don't rely on others for your fun.

[biostem]

A lot really depends upon what my particular goals happen to be for any given character or phase of their career.  Sometimes I just want the merits so I can buy a recipe or other item I want for said character, in which case, the fastest path for me is to run a TF on a lower difficulty.  Some people may just want a badge that's associated with a TF.  Other people find, especially for some of the older TFs, that the repeated "kill all enemies" or "click X glowies" are bothersome, and are really only interested in the final AV fight or if there's a unique location at the end.  I always emphasize that communication is key;  If you join someone else's TF, then you really should express how you feel and either remain or leave if you (dis)agree with the approach they're taking.  If YOU want to start a TF using your criteria, then more power to you!  I have no sympathy for you, if you are complaining but won't take charge to lead a TF yourself...

Edited July 11, 2022 by biostem

[Six-Six]

Other than starting your own TF or running it with known accomplices as I've mentioned, I have another suggestion for you. Do hardcore permadeath. when dying even once is prohibited, you'll see +0 mobs in a very different light.  

[FungalGrowth]

9 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Why not start your own TFs and set it to whatever difficulty you like?  So long as you make the rest of the team aware and they are all ok with the settings, I fail to see what the problem is here.  This seems to be a self inflicted problem. 

Try reading the post.  As I said in the original post, I do that.  A LOT.  But often even then I can't get the difficulty I want to because of the stupid difficulty bug. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by FungalGrowth

[FungalGrowth]

8 hours ago, Appolaris said:

I just find playing at +0 (or +1 above level 25), to be a waste of time and too boring.  

 

Exactly.  When I  join one of those watered-down TF's I feel like I have wasted my time.  At the cost of a few minutes, I could have got way more XP and had way more fun.  That's why I lead my own runs so often and often avoid joining when others run the the ones I need.  If only leading my own runs would consistently allow me to run the difficulty I want to run <sigh>.   

[AerialAssault]

+4 Synapse has been classified as an act of self-harm or a form of aggravated assault in international law. Please contact your local authorities if you see someone attempting +4 Synapse.

[Marshal_General]

I mostly do TFs either for the accolade or the WSF. The all I want is to get it done as fast as possible so I can go back to what I was doing.

[Frunobulax]

Yeah op, I get you, this game can sometimes feel like it's nothing but bored farmers completely overwhelming content that has not been updated to reflect the set system.

 

But of course there are also many, many new/freshly returned people for whom +0 is completely appropriate.

 

And people who are used to fast tf runs and are used to the time it generally takes for those. A bump in difficulty can make some of the older tf's potentially take much longer with a pug.

 

 

 

All you can do is provide an alternative as you have been doing. Advertise kill mosts/nonspeed, try modifiers such as only accepting players lvl 49 or lower for ITF (so much fun), there are plenty of people who don't feel like they always have to take the path of least resistance.

 

Just always be clear in your lfg, especially when doing the tfs people need badges from as many people see those as a necessary chore to get through (a sentiment you may even come to share some day, like when you play a toon with no worthwhile ae at lvl on a synapse). 

 

Personally I like all styles of play for different reasons, and I have met many players who seem to feel the same way, when given the choice, we'll show up.

[UltraAlt]

19 hours ago, FungalGrowth said:

Seems like every TF I join is set to +0 and then they skip half or more of it on top of that.  It's really not fun when every TF is unchallenging and shortcut to the nth degree.  Low reward, low fun.  It's so bad that I find myself not joining TF's that I need because I know it will almost certainly be some "speed run".

 

Well, we know who is ruining the fun.

Level 50's that most likely were power-leveled to 50.

They only run tasks forces for the merits. That is why they are bulldozing/speedrunning through them.

 

Some people do recruit for XP task force runs.

You might even ask before you join if it will be an XP run or not.

The lower the number of the people on the team, the more likely you are to hopefully get the leader to agree for it to be a leveling/XP team versus speed run.

Once group gets going, make sure to bring it up. Especially if someone starts stealthing stuff.

 

Best bet is always to recruit for your own task forces and say upfront in the LFG channel that you are recruiting for an XP taskforce. 

Now you have the star.

The team fills.

Someone says, "Give the start to a level 50". DON"T DO IT!

You to took the time to recruit. You are the leader. Don't bow down to intimidation. It's your team.

Make it clear once everyone is there that you are running an XP task force and it is NOT as speed run.

So when some 50 starts to stealth stuff, you can give them a warning if you want ... or you can just boot them ... you already did warn them. Some 50's simply don't think anyone has the courage to boot them. I suggest not only booting them, but putting them on /ignore. YOu won't have to hear their whining and the next time they send you tells to join your XP task force, you won't get their tells. Which means you can fill your team with players that aren't planning on trying to ruin your task force.

 

And I'll tell you the obvious secret that is no secret.

Almost everyone is looking to join a team.

Almost everyone is scared to lead a team.

So how does that factor? Recruit and people will join because the do want to team up.

Sure there are slow times, but, seriously, don't be afraid of the start.

If you want to be on a team and there isn't one, then start recruiting, 

 

19 hours ago, FungalGrowth said:

Seems like every TF I join is set to +0

 

It is rare that I'm on a task force that is set at zero, if someone asks, I always say +2.

Most tasks forces tha I join and recruit for run on +2.

I don't run level 50 content.

If the team can't take +2, I usually turn it down. I tend to put the last mission on 0 because I tend to get newer players on my teams and the last mission is a task force is the most difficult.

 

20 hours ago, FungalGrowth said:

Please fix the stupid difficulty bug where if the leader is not in the zone when someone enters the mission, the difficulty is NOT set to the leader's chosen difficulty.

 

As far as I know, they fixed that.

What task force have you been on lately where that was happening?

 

19 hours ago, Ukase said:

The primary reason it's a +0 "snooze fest" is because aside from the Dr. Aeon SF, you get the exact same merits whether you do it at +4 or -1. You get the same merits whether you do it with no enhancements or with no limitations at all. 

 

So here is my point about level 50's proven.

They are only in the task forces for the merits because they are level 50.

 

Honestly, many of them could care less that you are trying to level up. They are 50, and it seems quite often that means that they think they are better than you and your sub level 50 character .... even if they were powerlevel-ed to 50.

 

This is really a huge problem. There is a fairly sizable amount of the community that only plays the end-game (the actual game that goes from level 1-49 and the end-game that is played by those that are level 50) and only slums game-content to get merit rewards.

 

There are still a good number of us that like playing the game or, as level 50 end-gamers might want to call it, the "leveling" content.

To me, the leveling and building characters is the most fun.

Honestly, when it gets up to the high 30's and into the 40s the game isn't much fun to me and I pretty much hate end-game content. End-game content isn't enjoyable to me on multiple levels.

 

So what it really comes down to is if you want to enjoy the non-endgame content then do your best to avoid level 50's.

Either they want to take control of your team or they want to prove how cool they are in one way or another. They might just run off in a mission and kill stuff on their own to prove that they are better than the rest of the team. I mean if they are examplared down they still have powers that are levels higher than the content they are in.

 

19 hours ago, Ukase said:

When you PUG, you have very little idea as to how capable or not your team is.

 

And this is a level 50's attitude toward other players that they don't know.

 

Most PUGs that I have been on are very competent.

It may take time for the team to gel, but, once they figure out how to work with each other, things start moving very smoothly.

 

Honestly, the whiners on task forces are usually the 50's that were dropped down to a lower level than they wanted to be because I wouldn't give them the star. They are the ones that can't deal with the content and not the lower level players on the team.

 

The problem that most 50 are used to soloing with a bunch of people that are soloing and they just happen to be on a team together.

 

The lower level content and characters works much better when players on a team actually team-up and work with one another.

 

6 hours ago, FungalGrowth said:

That's why I lead my own runs so often and often avoid joining when others run the the ones I need.  If only leading my own runs would consistently allow me to run the difficulty I want to run <sigh>.   

 

I'm not sure what setting you are trying for, but I generally don't have problems having successful PUGS at +2.

 

8 hours ago, biostem said:

If YOU want to start a TF using your criteria, then more power to you!  I have no sympathy for you, if you are complaining but won't take charge to lead a TF yourself...

 

Don't fear the star.

Don't give up the star if you have spend time recruiting for YOUR team.

IF the 50 doesn't like it, they can take a hike.