issue 27 Focused Feedback: Toggle Suspension and Suppression

[The Curator]

Toggle Suspension (New Tech!)

• Toggle Suspension allows toggles to pause their periodic activations when under specific modes (e.g. Granite Armor, Kheldian Forms). This means the toggles will stop working and stop costing endurance while in one of these modes. Once you leave the mode, the toggles will resume automatically without the need to re-toggle. Once a toggle is suspended, you will no longer be able to activate it or deactivate it until you come out of the mode that caused the suspension.
• Tank & Brute/Stone Armor/Granite Armor: Now suspends the other Stone Armor armor toggles in the set while transformed instead of deactivating them. Also will suspend travel toggles (Run, Jump and Fly). Suspended toggles cost no endurance while running.
• Peacebringer/Luminous Blast/Bright Nova: Now suspends the other Peacebringer toggles in the set while transformed instead of deactivating them. Also will suspend pool power toggles. Suspended toggles cost no endurance while running.
• Peacebringer/Luminous Aura/White Dwarf: Now suspends the other Peacebringer toggles in the set while transformed instead of deactivating them. Also will suspend pool power toggles. Suspended toggles cost no endurance while running.
• Warshade/Umbral Blast/Dark Nova: Now suspends the other Warshade toggles in the set while transformed instead of deactivating them. Also will suspend pool power toggles. Suspended toggles cost no endurance while running.
• Warshade/Umbral Aura/Black Dwarf: Now suspends the other Warshade toggles in the set while transformed instead of deactivating them. Also will suspend pool power toggles. Suspended toggles cost no endurance while running.

 

Toggle Suppression

No More Offensive Toggle Drops: Toggles that used to drop when mezzed will instead have their effects suppressed while mezzed and for 8s after breaking out of mezz.

 

 

 

[Super Atom]

thanks

[dom9630]

This is awesome!

 

Much needed change for a long time!

[Wavicle]

Question: Will the Health cost of Inky Aspect also be suspended?

[Doomrider]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Question: Will the Health cost of Inky Aspect also be suspended?

The health cost is suspended as well yes. I have already tested this.

[Captain Powerhouse]

About the toggle suppression changes:

Some players have asked about the 8 second suppression for offensive toggles after mez.

First, this suppression does not care if you turn the toggle off and back on, the suppression is active for that period of time.

 

Why is this suppression in place? This change is not meant to automatically make it extremely easy to sustain multiple offensive toggles in the face of being mezzed. There are builds that only have one offensive toggle, then there are others that contain several. With an average of about 2 second and change cast time, 8 seconds is equivalent to re-activating 4 offensive toggles, all while not having to actually spend time turning them back on.

 

We want to see how this plays in as is on game play, and how it interacts with current rate of being mezzed, before making any further adjustments to the timer.

 

The more testing data we get, the better. If you run tests, remember to post your results in the appropriate focused feedback threads.

[ScarySai]

Four offensive toggles isn't a common occurrence. I would consider lowering the time down to four or five seconds at least. Eight's just too much for the grand majority of cases.

[Blackfeather]

It'll definitely be an improvement for my Fire/Rad Controller - even not worrying about Hot Feet and Choking Cloud detoggling alone, not to mention the debuff toggles.

[AlwaysAPrice]

Reposting my comment from the general feedback thread since this thread didn't include Suppression at that time:

On the topic of Toggle Suppression, which is a wonderful/overdue change in concept, a still-suppressed period does make sense - prior to this change, you wouldn't have been able to reapply the power's effects until both the power was recharged and the reapplied toggle had animated. 8 seconds sounds right in the range of default recharge + animation time for most offensive toggles. ...but global recharge and recharge slotting in those powers reduces their recharge. So if my built-out Dark Miasmist gets mezzed, it'd be better for me to detoggle Darkest Night myself before using a break free if I want that back in effect asap. Can this delay be made to take the power's actual recharge + animation time into account instead of being a flat value? Admittedly there is still some benefit to not full-retoggling since I can be using that time on additional attacks and my toggle will come back into effect on its own eventually, but after how long should still reflect the actual time being saved as determined by my build.

[J_3MBG]

OMG, this will make playing a kheldian so much more fun. 

[Sovera]

As a meleer (who is most of the time immune to CC anyway, but not always since I tend to solo more) at most I have two offense toggles.

[brattycommissar2]

also in the camp of '8 seems like a big ask', for most builds i've done with offensive toggles if it didn't maintain the suppression despite turning the power off and on, it'd be faster to just turn it off and on after the mez or something. 5 seems better to me--- but more to the point, why have the suppression remain despite turning the toggles on and off for that time? if someone wants to invest the effort in doing that, i'd figure it'd be fine to just let them, unless this is something where it'd be harder to let them do that than to not

[Ironblade]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

First, this suppression does not care if you turn the toggle off and back on, the suppression is active for that period of time.

That is not good.  The overwhelming majority of my characters only have one offensive toggle (well, actually the majority have zero).  In this case, the old system of having to turn it back on manually is superior and now I don't even have the option to turn it off and back on to avoid the suppression.

 

The changes on Kheldians will make all of this a positive change overall, but that 8 second suppression really seems egregious.

[Captain Powerhouse]

1 hour ago, brattycommissar2 said:

why have the suppression remain despite turning the toggles on and off for that time?

 

No technical ways around it. The suppression is based on event timers. The power simply constantly asks the game "how many seconds since I was last held/stunned/sleeped?"

 

The timer can be adjusted, but not that aspect. Any adjustment is dependent on testing testing testing.

 

[scarlet_f]

i'm guessing Voltaic Sentinel isn't  a toggle, even tho it kinda acts like 1, would be nice if it didn't shut off every time i get mezed  

[WindDemon21]

This was so exciting, FINALLY having suppression while mezzed. Then i saw the 8 second ADDITIONAL suppression after mezzed!? This is 100% a bad idea. I can see some of the thinking behind it, but 8 seconds is WAYYYYY too long. At max, the suppression should be 2-3 seconds, figuring the cast time on a toggle or two, but no more than that. It's actually a nerf to some faster toggles as well which you could get back on in a second after being mezzed. Please remove this suppression ore at the very least limit it to 2 to 3 seconds, but definitely no more than that or it's going to completely ruin it.

[Captain Powerhouse]

Just now, scarlet_f said:

i'm guessing Voltaic Sentinel isn't  a toggle, even tho it kinda acts like 1, would be nice if it didn't shut off every time i get mezed  

 

It is a toggle, but its one that creates a pet. There are a few extra steps needed for this change to be able to apply to toggles that create pets.

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Four offensive toggles isn't a common occurrence. I would consider lowering the time down to four or five seconds at least. Eight's just too much for the grand majority of cases.

5 is still WAY too long. Especially in the cases like rad emission, hurricane, darkest night etc, where those need back on ASAP. Three seconds is the max the suppression should last, if not 2 seconds. It's still actually a nerf in several cases for key toggles like that. 3s max, 2 would be more adequate, especially considering that this is for offensive toggles, which most only have 1 or two to begin with. Thinking that, I'd easily lean more to the 2 seconds.

[ScarySai]

2 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

5 is still WAY too long. Especially in the cases like rad emission, hurricane, darkest night etc, where those need back on ASAP. Three seconds is the max the suppression should last, if not 2 seconds. It's still actually a nerf in several cases for key toggles like that. 3s max, 2 would be more adequate, especially considering that this is for offensive toggles, which most only have 1 or two to begin with. Thinking that, I'd easily lean more to the 2 seconds.

Oh, I'd go even lower, but five at the minimum seems like a fair compromise if nothing lower will be considered.

[WindDemon21]

12 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Oh, I'd go even lower, but five at the minimum seems like a fair compromise if nothing lower will be considered.

 

Except its not, again, this is for offensive toggles. Keep in mind how few that actually affects. Rad being the biggest user, most sets have only 2, if not one offensive toggle (ie interacts with enemies). We're not talking leadership, fighting, armors etc. Most of those, start recharging when you get hit, and are ready to pop back on when the mez wears off. Three seconds should EASILY be the max, again, if not two seconds, which would still even be a nerf to quite a few toggles (just less hassle).

Edited July 13, 2022 by WindDemon21

[ShadowflareXV]

Going to throw my two cents in that 8 seconds is too long, because you're setting it to punish everyone as if they had 4 offensive toggles, when in most cases most builds that have one, only have one. I'd recommend 2-3 seconds. (the time to turn one toggle on, which punishes most players the "standard" amount of time it'd take to turn it back on) or 4-5 seconds, which assumes most players have an average of 2 and not treat everyone like the outliers that have 4.

[Blackfeather]

4 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

It'll definitely be an improvement for my Fire/Rad Controller - even not worrying about Hot Feet and Choking Cloud detoggling alone, not to mention the debuff toggles.

 

Following up on this, my Ice/Storm Controller will definitely benefit from this change as well - I usually keep Snow Storm and Arctic Air toggled on where possible. Adding in recharge and activation time for those powers definitely exceeds 8 seconds (not to mention the time it sometimes takes for me to remember to retoggle them in the first place).

 

I could see my Mastermind with Dark Miasma maybe being impacted? Their Darkest Night toggle takes a total of 6.89 seconds to get back up (from recharge + activation time), but given the QoL change it's pretty negligible for me. I imagine players who don't slot for more recharge'll benefit further still.

[kingsmidgens]

Sorry didn't see the focused feedback for this change and it seemed like it was just under general in the main thread.

IMO you should consider adding an individual per-power basis for offensive toggles.  Taunt and more direct Survivability toggles should come unsupressed much faster than toggles which are only damage or debuff.

Ex: Blazing Aura on Tank/Brute is their aggro control, it should come back faster than a Scrapper's Blazing Aura, or the Tank/Brute's own Quills or Irradiated Ground, which may still technically taunt, but are not primarily about that.  Evolving Armor, similarly, is the primary Taunt and a nice survivability boost and I think should come unsupressed faster than Genetic Contamination which at that point is promarily a DoT and DMG Debuff.

It feels too harsh to base the unsupression timer on every toggle off of the absolute maximum gain this could create for players in terms of a "buff" rather than a "QoL" change, when a Tanker would likely click Rise to the Challenge ASAP and gain it within 3 seconds.

Edited July 13, 2022 by kingsmidgens

[Shocktacular]

I just want to add my name to the list of people saying "8 seconds is too long".  To give an example, my rad/elec defender already lives on the edge, which is usually quite thrilling, and I've been having a lot of fun playing her lately.  However, having to wait 8 seconds after mez wears off for Choking Cloud to work again would basically ruin this character for me, since that's her main damage mitigation.  She usually survives by a slim margin as-is, but this change would be disastrous for her.

[Booper]

1 minute ago, Shocktacular said:

I just want to add my name to the list of people saying "8 seconds is too long".  To give an example, my rad/elec defender already lives on the edge, which is usually quite thrilling, and I've been having a lot of fun playing her lately.  However, having to wait 8 seconds after mez wears off for Choking Cloud to work again would basically ruin this character for me, since that's her main damage mitigation.  She usually survives by a slim margin as-is, but this change would be disastrous for her.

Is choking cloud the only toggle you use for Radiation Emission? No Enervating Field nor Radiation Infection?