issue 27 Focused Feedback: Architect Entertainment

[DawL]

1 hour ago, America's Angel said:

 

Use map #23785.

 

No match found on live servers.  

Okay, found it on test server. Ran 2 maps, clearing all enemies, just as I did on Brigg's map. Total was less than 6 mil for 2 runs (5,809,397).  I noticed there are no boss critters. Is this why you earn so much less? 

Low total on Brigg's map for 2 clear-all runs was 7,717,439 from the test server. Same exact map on Indomitable, 2 clear-all runs was 11,047,050. 

I will say there was zero danger on the #23785 map of dying. But a lot less gained.

 

I should also add - on  ALL maps I actively avoid "helpers" so all XP on the map is earned by the farmer, no NPC damage is dealt, so as not to effect totals.

Edited July 18, 2022 by DawL

[Ice Ember]

On 7/13/2022 at 5:11 AM, Steam_InGen said:

 

I guess a silver lining is The winter IOs will drop in price. less people needing fire def and resist. 😄

doubt they will drop. in price much.

 

farming the Infernal map will be the new thing

 

[Duuk]

10 hours ago, Marbing said:

This is not feasible without causing other problems, such as out-leveling an area after 1 or 2 missions. The pace is the pace for a reason, and even then double XP kind of encroaches on that.

To piggyback on an earlier suggestion (boosting XP rates in hazard/trial zones), if out-leveling them is a problem (and you're probably right, it will be) have the key trial zones use the monster/giant monster code that means it's not possible to out-level the zone.

[Logansan]

One important thing to remember (in regards to the farming issue) is that not all farmers are the same, there is a huge difference between AFK farmers and non-AFK famers, as there is between those that farm occasionally and those that do it every day. Not to mention the difference between those are good (for want of a better word) at it, and those that have toons that are just good enough to handle the standard farms in the AE.

 

I wouldn't be surprise if you ask five difference random people that were farming in the AE at the same time about their reason and methods of farming, you will get five completely difference answers.

 

Also the lost of vet levels won't impact all AE farmers. It would however impact me, which is why I'm concern about it.

 

My reasons for farming in the AE (which I may spend up to about 6 hours a week doing) are because of the number of characters I build and the fact that my favourite part of the game is the Incarnate system.

 

I try to have at least one character for every power set combination in the game. When I create a new character I normal do solo mission arcs (like the Shining Star) up to about level 30. I'm in no rush as I actually like some of the story arcs in the low levels.  I will continue to do some of the more popular story arc to get from 30 to 50 with on occasions jumping into the AE and using a farmer toon on a second account to give the new character a few levels to get them over the "boring parts" of levelling. If there is chance I can get on a group doing normal content at these same levels then I will do that instead of using the AE. However, the normal time I can play there are very low numbers on my server (Torchbearer).

 

And before anyone says so, no I don't want to switch servers I really like a lot of players on Torchbearer. I did switch a handful of character over to Excelsior (to group more) but I found that I don't enjoy playing on that particular server as much.

 

Once I get my new character to 50 (which takes me a couple of months) I then do the (solo) Incarnate arcs to unlock the slots. If I'm very lucky I will manage to see an iTrail forming and I will be very happy to join them. However, more often then not this is not the case so I will go back to the AE to get the first lot of Veteran levels so I can start getting some Incarnate slots up a couple tiers. This is the best way I found to get my new characters at a level that I feel they are good enough to handle themselves in the higher tier iTrails for the happy occasions that I happen to get on one.

 

Also to answer any question about my impact on the economy my particular method of farming has, the answer is a clear very little. The only time I sell anything on the AE is if all my storage boxes in my base are overflowing. I trend to use all the recipes (and salvage) of the popular sets that drop for either my current or future characters. Everything else normally gets sold straight to the vendor. The amount of stuff that drop in the AE that I don't end up using myself is very minimal. 

 

Anyway, my point is that the term "farming" means a lot of difference things to difference people and some people only think of the extreme side of farming when they see the word. 

 

 

[flakoff]

I don't get the issue, the game is basically farm to 50, then farm your incarnates lol.

What's wrong playing in teams earning threads etc, people are pretty much farming a complete finished toon. May as well play on test server if that's all you want.

 

 

[America's Angel]

6 hours ago, DawL said:

No match found on live servers.  

Okay, found it on test server. Ran 2 maps, clearing all enemies, just as I did on Brigg's map. Total was less than 6 mil for 2 runs (5,809,397).  I noticed there are no boss critters. Is this why you earn so much less? 

Low total on Brigg's map for 2 clear-all runs was 7,717,439 from the test server. Same exact map on Indomitable, 2 clear-all runs was 11,047,050. 

I will say there was zero danger on the #23785 map of dying. But a lot less gained.

 

I should also add - on  ALL maps I actively avoid "helpers" so all XP on the map is earned by the farmer, no NPC damage is dealt, so as not to effect totals.

 

Turn on bosses. I just ran it on Beta and got these numbers:

#23785 (Active) = 5.3mil per map

#23786 (AFK) = 5.7mil per map
 

Which is around 95-98% what you can earn on live on those same maps.

FYI, the critter creation screen is currently bugged. It's showing bosses giving 98% rewards, when in actual fact they give 95% rewards:



**Edit**

This might not be a bug. It might be due to the AE "preview" screen not going higher than 50. (So we don't get a preview of what % rewards level 54 mobs give.)

Edited July 18, 2022 by America's Angel

[Ukase]

So, an SG mate shared some notes of his about how the new changes actually impact the effectiveness and efficiency of farming. So, I took a break from my panic-mode emp farming to take a peek. 
It's not that bad, and AFK will not go the way of the dodo, at least it wouldn't for me, if there were something to farm for. Since there will be no emps, there's no further point to it. At least, not in AE. 

But for those that aren't sweating vet levels and such, you may need to either beef up your regen, hitpoints or AoE defense a bit. Just depends on where you're at. If you're not afk, I suspect you'll barely notice a difference, but that depends on your build and your playstyle, I suppose. 


I say that to say this: IF the objective was to penalize afk farming, and corral folks like myself out of AE and into the mainstream content, this approach was close, but missed the mark. Simply have the npcs dish out some type of unresistable damage. The farmers that are actively playing can easily mitigate this with team/incarnate buffs/heals, whereas the afk farmer wouldn't be able to. Problem solved. 

This approach mucks it up for those that are simply doing player created missions. It's just a bad idea. So many different ways to approach this, and you can tell by the 20 pages that 95% of pertain to rage about this change that it's the wrong way to approach this victimless crime you think is happening. It's time to rethink it. 

[Excraft]

22 hours ago, skoryy said:

Maybe I'm the odd duck with the perspective of playing other modern MMOs and occasionally keeping up with MMO news.  However, if you're openly advertising to new players that all this game is good for is ProgressQuest With Costumes, I'm not sure how you plan on keeping them around.

 

I'd wager the majority of folks here are vets from when the game was live.  We all found something to keep us here for 18 years.  Why wouldn't some of these mythical new players do the same? 

[TrelNargil]

   Ok, now here are some video's for you to watch, which should at least put a smile on some of your faces... 🙂

 

 

 

   Now the BIG question here in this video, is this... Who or what (in regards to CoH) is this in regards to (metaphorically speaking)? The changes to AE? This very thread? "Some" people's beliefs about the coming change? Gaming trends in general? Or something else perhaps? You all decide, as do we all, but one thing is clear; after 20 PAGES of discussion about the coming AE farming changes, I am with @agentx5 here. The sooner actual communication from the DV's about the reasons for the changes comes (and NOT just a short, diary, thought/post), the better. Like I said before; communication is always key in life, and even here. Now for this video... 😁

 

 

   This is my comments on anyone's attitude about speed in a game, and/or life in general. Or to put it another way, everyone has a right to eat 5 great cheeseburgers in a row in 10 minutes, but I can guarantee that I will savor the taste of it a whole lot more than said person will; and when it's done, I'll be less likely to puke it all out as well. So slow down if you will, and try and taste the burger's will you lol? But in the end, as someone famous said relatively recently, "Perception IS Reality". Everyone has the right to enjoy & play the game as they see fit, and if that means you feel the "need" to create 30 level 50+ characters in AE by farming, compared to my single one, well that just means your priorities are different then mine.

   Either that, or you got a serious gaming addiction going (which as we all know, ANY addiction is not good), have a TON of time on your hands, or maybe should get out more and enjoy life, take a walk in the park, go fishing, dancing, etc. In either case, it is certainly clear by this thread/post that no matter which way things end up, some people are not going to be happy about it, and you know what? That's ok too. Why? Because life ISN'T easy or fair, nor is it meant to be! It will grind you up, and spit you out if you let it, so again, please enjoy this awesome game, no matter how it winds up (if you can), and be thankful that Homecoming IS here.

   Because let's face it, if ya don't like it, anyone can always create their server and play how they want to play (sorry, if that sounds harsh, but it's very true as the code IS out there for all to grab). Please just remember though... "You can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time” - John Lydgate

 

   (Sorry if this post of mine sounds humorous with the vids and a "bit" harsh too, but after 20 pages on this topic, I am sure some of us are just waiting for it to hit the 47th page lol)

 

Peace...

Edited July 18, 2022 by TrelNargil

[AlwaysAPrice]

On 7/12/2022 at 11:17 AM, The Curator said:

Fixed a bug with Experience Boosters granting too much experience in non-Dev Choice AE missions. 1.5XP was giving double XP and 2XP was giving triple XP. These have been corrected to the intended 1.5x and 2x, respectively.

Got curious about this and tested on both Everlasting and Brainstorm, using a level 28 character to fight a level 28 minion in non-DC AE and one in Croatoa, tested with and without DXP boosters and with and without patrol XP.

Everlasting AE:
Patrol XP, No Booster: 146 experience, 102 influence.
Patrol XP, DXP Booster: 292 experience.
No Patrol, No Booster: 73 experience, 102 influence.
No Patrol, DXP Booster: 219 experience.

 

Brainstorm AE:
Patrol XP, No Booster: 109 experience, 102 influence.
Patrol XP, DXP Booster: 182 experience.
No Patrol, No Booster: 73 experience, 102 influence.
No Patrol, DXP Booster: 146 experience.

Everlasting & Brainstorm Croatoa (no change):
Patrol XP, No Booster: 219 experience, 102 influence.
Patrol XP, DXP Booster: 365 experience.
No Patrol, No Booster: 146 experience, 102 influence.
No Patrol, DXP Booster: 292 experience.

So what it looks like, to me, is that "bonus XP" wasn't calculated based on the amount of experience rewarded to the player after a kill, but on the normal experience value of the individual enemy defeated. In the first Everlasting AE test, Patrol XP's +50% adds half an enemy's normal XP to the halved XP rewarded by AE, resulting in 100% normal XP while patrol lasts. Likewise with the no patrol + DXP test, the DXP Booster may not actually be tripling the rewarded XP but adding 100% of the defeated enemy's XP to the halved XP rewarded in AE. In which case it isn't giving triple XP, it's giving the equivalent of triple AE XP, which is still only 75% of normal double XP. Only having both a DXP booster (only available to sub-50s and eliminates inf gain) and patrol XP (something that builds slowly and goes away rapidly without charges of the very expensive to acquire Experienced power) increases AE experience to equal doubled non-AE experience, which is still only 80% of normal double XP + patrol XP.

I'm like...well maybe 55% sure at most that it's supposed to be working this way. That the ability to use boosters & patrol XP to bring AE returns back up was known and explicitly highlighted to mollify the disappointed at the time Homecoming went to half AE XP, but I'm not digging around old threads at the moment to confirm. I just bring that possibility up because that it could have been WAI or perceived so may help explain the mysterious mystery of nobody reporting this in three years, given the boosted numbers would still come out lower than non-AE play in all comparisons using the same boosts, and the logic in play for both styles of XP boost being consistent if someone did test for it. Either way, looks like there's also been a change to how Patrol XP is calculated (in AE at least, which would be the only way to see it in action if it's universal) that could use a patch note, as now on Brainstorm it looks to be working the same way DXP boosters are, applying its bonus as a percentage of the received/AE-adjusted value rather than the base value.

 

So there's that if anyone was interested in something that wasn't vet levels.

[Ruin Mage]

• Veteran experience rewards have been returned to AE for Level 50's.
   

As from the patch notes, in case no one wants to scroll all the way down.

[skoryy]

4 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

• Veteran experience rewards have been returned to AE for Level 50's.
   

As from the patch notes, in case no one wants to scroll all the way down.

 

😑

[Blackfeather]

8 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

• Veteran experience rewards have been returned to AE for Level 50's.
   

As from the patch notes, in case no one wants to scroll all the way down.

 

In exchange:

 

Quote

Merit Rewards

• The Empyrean/Astral Merit to Reward Merit conversion has been removed from Reward Merit vendors.
• For Incarnate Trials we'll be adding a completion bonus reward of Reward Merits on-top of the current standard Empyrean/Astral Merit rewards valuing the total of what the standard conversion would've amounted to. Meaning you'll get the same number of Empyrean/Astral Merits as you were before Page 4 but also get the following on-top:
  • Behavioral Adjustment Facility Trial = 18 Reward Merits
  • Lambda Sector Trial = 20 Reward Merits
  • Keyes Island Reactor Trial = 18 Reward Merits
  • The Underground Trial = 40 Reward Merits
  • TPN Campus Trial= 30 Reward Merits
  • Minds of Mayhem Trial = 30 Reward Merits
  • Dilemma Diabolique Trial = 30 Reward Merits
  • The Magisterium Trial = 22 Reward Merits
• The Astral Merit bonus reward that is granted to everyone in the League for each badge challenge completed in all Incarnate Trials now includes an added 2 Reward Merits.

[Ruin Mage]

Yes, which is a fair exchange.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Shadeknight

[Bionic_Flea]

I don't know why we bother testing and offering suggestions when the Devs have already made up their minds!  *Reads Patch Notes*

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Bionic_Flea

[Blackfeather]

Just now, Shadeknight said:

Yes, which is a fair exchange.

 

Just adding it in here given that it's AE adjacent!

[brass_eagle]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:49 AM, ExeErdna said:

 

The only problem was when you had to pop into AP and it lags for other zones it's no problem. They might finally spread out a bit since I've had my game crash a few times zoning in when running some TF's. They legit fixed that problem.

Personally what's happening with AE here should be put on the backburner to see how people react with the AE in AP being gone first. If that makes people play more DFB's that's basically the goal completed. It matters not what a 50 do with their time.

 

I'm going to have to +1 this. It's not about more than DFBs. Atlas Park is a hub for SBB, DiB, public costume contests, new characters, tip teams, etc... With a 50-slot character limit... it can get quite laggy.

 

I've seen more than a few costume contest holders move it to a base and broadcast a password because Atlas just doesn't cut it anymore. When you've got 20+ people AFK in the AE building it will take up that limit.

 

The inflammatory reactions to the removal of a farming source to the introductory zones is something I wouldn't expect people get mad over. There's 10+ other AE buildings around.

Edited July 18, 2022 by brass_eagle
editted to break up run-on sentence -- 2nd paragraph

[brass_eagle]

28 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Yes, which is a fair exchange.

 

I suppose. Weren't Veteran levels and Veteran level rewards added by the HC team, not live?

[Ruin Mage]

Yes.

Built off the back of the Vet badges from live's sub service IIRC.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Shadeknight

[Ukase]

On 7/17/2022 at 5:49 PM, ExeErdna said:

 

That's why I wonder if the normal player base know or even care about Beta branch if they want to try something just hop over there and spend an hour or so building a character then figuring out if you can afford it, or even like how the build plays.

Since to me the again the 3rd time saying it the REAL AE problem is solved they're out of AP and Mercy. This whole thread is pointless until we understand the removal of these AE's first really do change something. Doesn't really bother me when I normally roll a new character it's like 3am EST or some shit and I start as a villain. Yet those Blue players have to change it up.

I've talked to more than a few folks about hopping on Brainstorm to try things out. There's like a mental block for some of them in just figuring out how get on brainstorm. I try to break it down, step by step over Discord and I eventually just get the idea they don't want to understand how easy it is to get on Brainstorm and kit out a new character, or copy one they already have. 

As for moving AE out of Atlas and Mercy, I get what they're doing, but it's just stupid. It won't resolve but maybe .05% of folks who are just not smart enough to ask how to get to Pocket D or another AE building. It's not going to solve the minor problem of folks PLing before they know how to play their character. Might slow 'em down a few minutes, but it won't stop 'em. 

[Ironblade]

The Empyrean/Astral Merit to Reward Merit conversion has been removed from Reward Merit vendors.

 

Huh.  I'm sure I must have heard about this at some point, but I did not know we could do this.

And now we're going to get Reward Merits for iTrials.  Works for me.  🙂

[Widower]

Since the merit change isn't an AE change, strictly speaking, let it be discussed in the General Feedback thread the brand new Focused Feedback for merits. This thread can now just be for the various additions made. Thank you for playing Focused Feedback and enjoy your Veteran XP.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by GM Widower

[Coyotedancer]

1 hour ago, Shadeknight said:

• Veteran experience rewards have been returned to AE for Level 50's.
   

As from the patch notes, in case no one wants to scroll all the way down.

 

The CoyoteNephew will like that a lot.

Thanks for listening to us on that one DevPeeps,  👍

[TheZag]

Vet XP has been restored,  this is excellent news for most of the people in the previous 20 pages of comments.  Now we can give a go at testing the rest of the AE changes.

 

[ivanhedgehog]

46 minutes ago, TheZag said:

Vet XP has been restored,  this is excellent news for most of the people in the previous 20 pages of comments.  Now we can give a go at testing the rest of the AE changes.

 

Has the idea of having the open world 2xp be different? make it 2.5 xp and add a hp buff with it?