Officially Unofficial Weekly Discussion #7: Story Time (a premier of story arcs)

[SeraphimKensai]

Welcome back for week 7. This week's theme is all about a good story.

 

What are your favorite story arcs to run? What are your least favorite? Any standout AE story arcs that you find yourself drawn in by? How do you want to be engaged by the story narrative? What suggestions do you have that might help convey a good story? What's a fitting capstone for completing a story arc?

Edited December 7, 2022 by SeraphimKensai

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, SeraphimKensai said:

 

What are your favorite story arcs to run?

 

I like the Hollows story arcs ... more so up to the FrostFire mission (who doesn't love Frostfire?!)

I like the Striga story arcs because I get to ... ah... Council. And the Hess Task Force is icing on the cake.

 

1 hour ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What are your least favorite?

 

Twinshot. why? oh, please why?!

Graveyard Shift. I really want to like this. I think the story is a good concept, but the zoombies are just a bit much. I think that they were toned down at some point; I don't think I have tried running it again once they have been toned down.

There are a couple of First Ward or Night Ward arcs that I'm not too keen on, but I can't remember the names. The one with the Coyote that takes you into a massive ambush by mastermind enemies is kind of out of hand for small teams especially if the team is all squishies.

 

One of the main complaints that I hear are about arcs with multiple screens of text when taking to a contact. I'm sure some people like this, but it often seems the same feeling can be put across with fewer words.

These days players are rushing to get through mission so what does that say about how much time that they want to read the contact information? + only the team leader is going to be reading the content anyway (there are a few will take time to copy-and-paste the info into /team, but that just makes the contact interaction even longer).

 

2 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Any standout AE story arcs that you find yourself drawn in by?

 

I've written some AE arcs, but, honestly, I don't play other people's AE arcs that often. I would rather I wasn't limited to 3 arcs at a time. (I know I could ask the DEVs for more, and I know I could post my missions in the forums, but I don't want to take off my in-game mask in the forums)

Farming really has put a bad taste in my mouth for the AE. And that's pretty horrible because it is a great creative tool.

 

2 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

How do you want to be engaged by the story narrative? What suggestions do you have that might help convery a good story?

 

Many of the story arcs do this fairly correctly in City of Heroes.

One think I really hate about DCUO is that everyone is talking down to your character.

 

Having a developing relationship with a contact is important for engagement purposes. A contact showing increased trust for a player-character makes the player feel good about interacting with the contact. 

 

I think it is important to the contact to recognize aspects of the character that it can react to. This can be done in the AE; I don't know if it can be done in the game itself. I'm talking about reacting to the fact that the player is female/male, their archetype, and/or origin. This doesn't have to be done in a heavy-handed fashion, but just worked into the mix of dialog sometimes.

 

The Clue concept is good, but I'm unsure of how many people take time to read clues. I think revelations are best revealed when talking with contacts.

 

2 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What's a fitting capstone for completing a story arc?

 

To me, this varies.

There are story arcs that link with one another. I see this happening mainly in 2 ways. Zone-related arcs and pivotal-point-related arcs.

 

Zone-related arcs should end with obvious advancement of the overall storyline while completing that contact's needs or knowledge of the situation. I think overall zone arcs already lead to AVs and that is where I think zone arcs should end. I don't mind this rolling into a task force like Hess in Striga.

 

I think all the pivotal-point-related arcs should end in AVs as well. I'm aiming this at Origin arcs in particular. Getting to level 20 was supposed to be a big deal in the original game, so I think that the 15-19 Origin contacts should all have AVs at the end of their arcs. I think the same thing should happen in the Origin arcs heading into level 40 and again at level 50 (many arcs heading into level 50 have multiple AVs).

 

I think the feeling of defeating the big bad once-and-for-all (even if they do end up showing up later) gives the player a feeling of accomplishment. I think that the contact should let the player-character know that they have done a great thing to defeat the enemy group and save the citizens of Paragon City from their criminal activities.

 

... and maybe tell them that they can't talk to them any more in such a way as it doesn't seem like the contact is blowing them off. And that includes any message they say when you call them from your character's inactive contact list.

 

[Xiddo]

I both agree and disagree with @UltraAlt on a couple of points...
 

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Graveyard Shift. I really want to like this. I think the story is a good concept, but the zoombies are just a bit much. I think that they were toned down at some point; I don't think I have tried running it again once they have been toned down.

There are a couple of First Ward or Night Ward arcs that I'm not too keen on, but I can't remember the names. The one with the Coyote that takes you into a massive ambush by mastermind enemies is kind of out of hand for small teams especially if the team is all squishies.

@Piecemeal's arc are two of favs in the game. If I see either being advertised then I am in. The Zig mission is brilliant. Tbh, the Zig map is woefully underused.
[Side note: I'd love for it to be in a Rogue/Vigil only TF where you release the people you more closely align with and pull a heist/hit job after gathering the perfect 'team'.]
When I first came back I had no idea what was going on in First/ Night Ward. I'm not 100% on my lore there, but I adore the challenge of those mobs. Defending the mansion is chaos but great.
 

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Zone-related arcs should end with obvious advancement of the overall storyline while completing that contact's needs or knowledge of the situation. I think overall zone arcs already lead to AVs and that is where I think zone arcs should end. I don't mind this rolling into a task force like Hess in Striga.

I think all the pivotal-point-related arcs should end in AVs as well. I'm aiming this at Origin arcs in particular. Getting to level 20 was supposed to be a big deal in the original game, so I think that the 15-19 Origin contacts should all have AVs at the end of their arcs. I think the same thing should happen in the Origin arcs heading into level 40 and again at level 50 (many arcs heading into level 50 have multiple AVs).

Strong agree on that arcs should end in an AV/Hero. So often it is just "oh look, a boss level baddie".

Length wise, Redside stuff is about right. The 40-50 arcs in GV are pretty good. Badges, AVs, you learn about lore, there's a plot, 4-7 missions and you get some merits, and there's often a crescendo. I'm thinking quite a bit about the conference mission given from Viridian. However I think some of the redside missions really lack a badge for their completion.

Mr G and Provost Marchand arcs are fun.

Good stories and arcs for me involve: more than 1 enemy type, a level of travelling but not Citi style, EBs/AVs, maps I don't see often, and a bit of a twist (Paragon Protectors are WHAT? Rikti used to be WHO?!).

[DougGraves]

It's been so long since I first did any arcs I don't really remember the storylines any more.

[cranebump]

Other than cool maps and foes, to me a good arc has memorable NPCs, some wit (clever and/or funny), and a (usually) a twist. Or perhaps just a signature moment. Bittersweet victory. Complicated villains/motivations. What checks some of these various boxes for me (in no particular proportion, and presented in no particular order):

 

Flux (Flux the Outcast: Take Out Frostfire): Slidy, ice map and Yeah! Simple! finale does this for me. The lead up is a bit tedious. (And you can always get a team for it)

Eagle Eye (The Lords of Death) Multiple contacts working together from different angles. The Infiltration mission. Taking on a family of vills; I never had mind for beeznees; FIRE! FIRE! And I get to knock the snot out of Back Alley Brawler (well, not ME, actually, but...still). 

Laura Lockhart (Collateral Damage): Dulce Et Decorum Est and all that. Treachery! Drama! And F*** YOU, LEON, YOU ETERNAL DOUCHE BAG!

Johnny Sonata: We don't get to go into hell nearly enough.

Bane Spider Ruben (Destiny Follows): Backstab your way to power (as it oughta be in the RI). Then, lead an army to kick the living shit out of Longbow.

Keith Nance (Twisted Reflections): Watching yourself die for the cause, without actually having to die for the cause (but feeling like you died for the cause...see that circle there?)

Crimson (the whole long, inglorious thing): Because it felt like the perfect capstone for my gritty scrapper 50, Acrobattle. Malta became his personal nemesis. 

Provost Marchand (All 3 Primal Arcs): I hate, hate, hate fighting Calvin Scott. Seems like he hands me my ass no matter what kind of toon I'm running. But I love this series of arcs. Good boss fights. Complicated motivations. Pyrrhic ending. Sense of failure in a win. Love it.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by cranebump

[JasperStone]

53 minutes ago, cranebump said:

Other than cool maps and foes, to me a good arc has memorable NPCs, some wit (clever and/or funny), and a (usually) a twist. Or perhaps just a signature moment. Bittersweet victory. Complicated villains/motivations. What checks some of these various boxes for me (in no particular proportion, and presented in no particular order):

 

Flux (Flux the Outcast: Take Out Frostfire): Slidy, ice map and Yeah! Simple! finale does this for me. The lead up is a bit tedious. (And you can always get a team for it)

Eagle Eye (The Lords of Death) Multiple contacts working together from different angles. The Infiltration mission. Taking on a family of vills; I never had mind for beeznees; FIRE! FIRE! And I get to knock the snot out of Back Alley Brawler (well, not ME, actually, but...still). 

Laura Lockhart (Collateral Damage): Dulce Et Decorum Est and all that. Treachery! Drama! And F*** YOU, LEON, YOU ETERNAL DOUCHE BAG!

Johnny Sonata: We don't get to go into hell nearly enough.

Bane Spider Ruben (Destiny Follows): Backstab your way to power (as it oughta be in the RI). Then, lead an army to kick the living shit out of Longbow.

Keith Nance (Twisted Reflections): Watching yourself die for the cause, without actually having to die for the cause (but feeling like you died for the cause...see that circle there?)

Crimson (the whole long, inglorious thing): Because it felt like the perfect capstone for my gritty scrapper 50, Acrobattle. Malta became his personal nemesis. 

Provost Marchand (All 3 Primal Arcs): I hate, hate, hate fighting Calvin Scott. Seems like he hands me my ass no matter what kind of toon I'm running. But I love this series of arcs. Good boss fights. Complicated motivations. Pyrrhic ending. Sense of failure in a win. Love it.

 

 

This 🙂

[TerroirNoir2]

On 12/7/2022 at 3:28 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

Any standout AE story arcs that you find yourself drawn in by?

Oh dear me.  What can I say?  Try anything by @Darmian, @cranebump and @Ankylosaur. Hard to pick between the 3 of them to be honest but damnit, if the Meteors aren't added to the game as an actual in game mid level super group then there's no justice. 

 

Obviously I'd recommend you play through their AEs, but for an idea of what's going on I am busy flailing my way through them and the "reviews" are listed here.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by TerroirNoir2

[Bionic_Flea]

I think that each issue with new missions saw improvement, with the exception of the Daedalus Arc ironically written by someone they hired for their writing ability.  That arc is one of my least favorite.

 

I like the zones that have linked story arcs that tell a larger story: Hollows, Striga, Croatoa, RWZ are all super fun to me.  The fact that they minimize travel is a bonus!  All of Praetoria also followed this theme.

 

On the villain side, Oh, Wretched Man from Seer Marino, which makes me pity Wretch, and Westin Phipps, who actually makes me feel bad for running him.  How many arcs actually make you feel anything?

[JasperStone]

Freaklympics deserves an honorable mention.

The Eternal Nemesis ... friggin' Nosferatu(sorry @Snarky)

Edited December 7, 2022 by JasperStone
added apology to Snarky

[Spaghetti Betty]

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What are your favorite story arcs to run?

I definitely like the arcs that cover a whole zone the best. Hollows, Faultline, Striga, Croatoa, and RWZ are my top 5 and every toon will run them (if they don't outlvl them first). I like the worldbuilding (zonebuilding?) that happens as you complete contacts. The Kings Row revamp is up there, too. I don't mind running around the city to complete Legacy missions, but a lot of those end up feeling extremely self-contained. Oh, and I have a soft spot for Vivacious Verandi on redside. "You know what? F-- you, infinite ambushes."

17 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What are your least favorite?

Twinshot

17 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Any standout AE story arcs that you find yourself drawn in by?

Thanks for reminding me that I still need to check a lot of them out. Most of my time in AE has been spent playtesting my own arcs. I would not recommend them for the story. They all have excuse plots. but are extremely challenging. (Think NES-era packaging of story vs gameplay)

17 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

How do you want to be engaged by the story narrative?

Just let me feel like my actions are making a difference. The Faultline arc does this beautifully. After helping Jim learn the truth of the Faultline incident and helping him turn a new leaf, you find him and Fusionette on the front line of the war efforts in RWZ. You also help Penny Yin in Faultline as a teen and she ends up becoming a keystone member of the Freedom Phalanx. I like things like that. It makes the people in the world feel more organic. There were also elements of the world changing through Phasing in the Atlas Park revamp. I would've liked to see how that technology would've influenced future arcs.

17 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What suggestions do you have that might help convey a good story?

I think having more choice during an arc would be a good first step.

17 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What's a fitting capstone for completing a story arc?

Fighting the boss or a similar tough encounter.

[cranebump]

46 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I think that each issue with new missions saw improvement, with the exception of the Daedalus Arc ironically written by someone they hired for their writing ability.  That arc is one of my least favorite.

That is an arc I haven’t run yet so I can’t personally comment on the writing. I do wonder whether or not they took story pitches before choosing someone. It is one thing to execute your vision of the story you have in mind, and then quite another to have to fulfill preset requirements. Either way, I feel for them. I would find that zone difficult to write for. 

[BurtHutt]

Back on Live, I'd read some of the stories when I tried some stuff solo. When you team, it is tough to do so. I'll also admit I don't really have much desire to read the stories again - some I've never read. 

 

I prefer the comments in caption boxes that appear on screen. This way the team doesn't get slowed down and you have the option to read the materials.

 

Maybe this is why I don't really like much of the newer stuff?

 

 

[Snarky]

i love low level stories, and i love redside   Standout stories for me are from The Radio (excellent low level arc!), The Slot Machine (twilight zone stuff), and I like the wretch storyline from Seer Marino.  Mostly I think due to the complexity it adds to Ghost Widow.  Good writing there.  

 

The Vahzilok arcs added by Homecoming team are top notch. In mission layout, storytelling, and development of CoH lore they get high marks across the board.

[Ukase]

There are many arcs I like to run. 
I do like Grave's arcs, but I just detest the scenery everywhere in Redside, except Cap. So, because of that, I don't run Graves that often. But, Dollface and Scirocco in the final mission are excellent to enjoy fairly often..just not too often. 

I absolutely love running Jim Temblor's arc, out of Faultline. There seems to be a perfect spacing and balance of bad guys in those maps that I just don't "feel" in any other. That, and I think Fusionette is a hoot. The whole dialogue "I got caught AGAIN!!!" is for me, well...it's real. Fusionette comes off as a tiny, over-powered little girl, maybe 11-12 years old and it's clear she wants to be helpful, but gets in over her head, routinely. 

And she doesn't change much when I see her again in Levantera's arc, out of RWZ. 

"Return to Vampyr Mountain", for me, is useful, and I love taking out the Transformation Capsules in one of the later missions in the arc. If your alt is capable, you can easily get all 200 vamps you need for the badge, without tackling Moonfire - although, one has to admit the first two missions of Moonfire are tailor made for Atlas Medallion pre-req work. 

Buck Salinger is the gent whose arc unlocks Katie Hannon's TF. But it also has the silly Red Caps. The dialogue for these rascals is always the right amount of silly for me.  I am one of the few who actually enjoy both "Stop 30 fir bolg from entering the portal" and the last mission from Salinger where you have to protect the three npcs from the redcaps - which is timed, so no matter how efficient you are, you have to wait. I get why a lot don't like it, but I do. Just crazy like that, I suppose. 

I would enjoy Provost Marchand's first arc more if there were a way to monitor the health of the trio - Pendragon, Creston and Pena. On a number of my characters, they just take a knee before I'm out of the first room. And, having kept them going on a few alts with Team Inspirations, they offer decent dialogue, and assistance as we travel through the map. It's just annoying for an empath to not really know if they need any healing until they're clicked on - and sometimes they run a bit out of the way. Hard to keep tabs on them. 

I would say my least favorite arc is by Crimson, as I still haven't done it since HC opened the game. I'm not a fan of Malta and the sappers, the stuns, etc, especially at +4/8. Not a great time for me. 

 

 

[Greycat]

23 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Welcome back for week 7. This week's theme is all about a good story.

 

What are your favorite story arcs to run? What are your least favorite? Any standout AE story arcs that you find yourself drawn in by? How do you want to be engaged by the story narrative? What suggestions do you have that might help convey a good story? What's a fitting capstone for completing a story arc?

 

I'll run the Kheldian arcs on pretty much every one I roll. I just wish there were a bit more separation later on between Peacebringer and Warshade, to get different views of what's happening. (Also, honestly I like the fact the world reacts to "Hey, a Kheldian" when playing them, spawning specific enemies for them. I wish VEATs had something similar going on.)

 

Croatoa, I'll run on every magic character. And anyone else it fits. I love the little challenges in it (like the "Prevent 30 fir Bolg from escaping" - I try to keep on my 0 escapes run) - though I think the last mission could use some tweaking. On several characters it's "trap one NPC, go for a light lunch, come back 15 minutes later."

 

Similarly, the Keith Nance/Jenny Adair pair I find fun.

 

Redside... they keep saying "has better writing." But way too often, it's a selection of being railroaded along a line of things you wouldn't actually do, being a lackey, being pants-on-head stupid, or suddenly finding yourself slammed far over into the psychopath zone without really knowing ahead of time (unless you've done them before) which you're going to get. Granted, villains are typically *pro*active, not *re*active, and so much harder to write, but it makes me enjoy redside far less unless I'm with a group and we're writing our own AEs and plots and such. And I'm not in that sort of group here.

 

And I've run the VEAT storyline once. And, frankly, hated it after the first few arcs. (Maybe level 15-20?) Might have changed, but I vaguely remember in the 30s or so getting one which was *very* short and basically going "Ha-ha, you're being suckered into thinking you're getting away with something but we've been watching the whole time, idiot. What a loser. XOXO, Recluse." Forced myself to finish the rest of them, haven't had the slightest interest in playing them again... *since they were introduced.* They felt rushed, they were annoying... and as mentioned, haven't touched them (past the level 10 costume mission) since.

[SeraphimKensai]

Like several of you I really like the zone wide story arcs where each successive contact in the zone builds off the last one, so the Hollows, Striga, Croatoa, RWZ, Nightward (hard to not like this one especially with the finale's nods to Ghostbusters), and Dark Astoria.

 

Otherwise I really like Mr. G's stuff, and Ghost Widow's patron arc through all the chapters.