Tankiest Tanks?

[Bopper]

2 hours ago, JayboH said:

I didn't realize it acted as a multiplier on top of being mag level protection.  WEIRD!  I wonder why it was set up that way

KB is sorta unique. With mezzes, you have protection against the magnitude of let's say a hold, then you have resistance against the duration of that hold's magnitude (if your protection is overtaken).

 

Knockback has no duration, so your resistance to KB goes against the magnitude. So let's say you have 10 KB protection along with 75% KB resistance. If an enemy used a 30 KB attack on you, 75% of that gets resisted so you only take 7.5 KB. Your 10 KB protection can withstand that and you won't get knocked back. Purple patch still applies for their KB, so make sure you factor that in.

 

So ultimately, yes, it acts as a multiplier. The formula to use is:

True KB protection = KB protection / [100% - minmax(KB resistance%, -300%, 99%)]

Edited June 10, 2021 by Bopper

[JayboH]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

 

 

It feeds into it, because you don't need as much knockback protection with knockback resistance.  Unfortunately with Grounded, you often have neither.

Often?  What do you mean - do most electric armor players jump and fly all over the place?

 

I've never cared much for elec armor personally even though I tend to favor sets with damage auras.

[JayboH]

8 minutes ago, Bopper said:

KB is sorta unique. With mezzes, you have protection against the magnitude of let's say a hold, then you have resistance against the duration of that hold's magnitude (if your protection is overtaken).

 

Knockback has no duration, so your resistance to KB goes against the magnitude. So let's say you have 10 KB protection along with 75% KB resistance. If an enemy used a 30 KB attack on you, 75% of that gets resisted so you only take 7.5 KB. Your 10 KB protection can withstand that and you won't get knocked back. Purple patch still applies for their KB, so make sure you factor that in.

 

So ultimately, yes, it acts as a multiplier. The formula to use is:

True KB protection = KB protection / [100% - minmax(KB resistance%, -300%, 99%)]

Thanks Bopper, I never knew about that.

[Bopper]

5 minutes ago, JayboH said:

Thanks Bopper, I never knew about that.

In fairness, I only learned this during the page 2 beta cycle. Originally I thought the resistance worked like mez resistance, where it would be 

New Mag = KB Mag / (1 + KB resistance). Given that some armors provide 10,000% KB resistance, it made sense to think that from the context. Perhaps the Live devs thought that was how it worked too when giving those values.

 

It wasn't until we found an early version of Evasive Maneuvers was granted insane protection with a single 3 KB set bonus that we realized what the true formula is. I think Number Six was the one to confirm that formula. 

[Hyperstrike]

On 3/17/2021 at 11:39 AM, StriderIV said:

HE HAS THE POWWWWWEEEEEERRRR!

I would not be caught DEAD wearing a "Prince Valliant"!

[Madae]

I'm not an expert, but I really like my Elec/Elec Tanker. Only have something like 78% resist and 20% defense and I don't really explode all that easily. Toxic damage is all I really have to worry about, but I'm slowly building that up with sets. You get a heal, you get a endurance clicky, you get AOE damage and resists for just about everything. Probably the most fun I've had in this game, as I tend to choose based on theme and more often than not end up with something mediocre and not all that interesting, but I have no issue with E/E at all.

[Bill Z Bubba]

I'm in the shield camp. I was main-lining SR like a proper junkie but the difference in absolute unkillability between it and shield is pretty drastic. And having all that +dam from AAO is freaking amazing. Sure, I have to click AD a lot for the dblstack of DDR, but that's a small price to pay.

 

No, shield needs no buffs.

[America's Angel]

I'm not sure how SR can compete with Invuln and Shield. They have more res, more health, and do +dam. (And in Invuln's case, a huge heal.)

 

Better DDR and bonus recharge in quickness?

[BZRKR]

10 hours ago, Apparition said:

the fault in Electric (which is Grounded)

I see what you did there 🙃

[BZRKR]

5 hours ago, America's Angel said:

I'm not sure how SR can compete with Invuln and Shield. They have more res, more health, and do +dam. (And in Invuln's case, a huge heal.)

 

Better DDR and bonus recharge in quickness?

Yep.

Better DDR, Recharge, Scaling Resistance that you can stack with IOs, and the #1 reason it edges out Shield in my opinion:

You can do /em drink while a pull catches up to you 🙂

 

But seriously, in the content I run every day (MSR, most often as a puller) I don't die on my Shield or Super Reflexes Tanks, so they're both awesome.

In other content AAO and Shield Charge go a LONG way towards making Shield worth losing the ability to do emotes while your toggles are on.

[Gobbledigook]

SR is good but shield is better imo. Yes SR gets good resistance with the scaling resistances but to get that puts SR at very low health that even with 90% resists can be overcome. Shield has almost the same DDR and very good resists when built well with far more health all the time, boosting regen also. Also shield has charge for extra AoE and a damage bonus, dead mobs are no threat.

 

 Both are awesome though as said above.

 

All sets have their weaknesses though and some things they excel at.

[Marshal_General]

SR is fine with scaling resists until the game decides that the attack it is going to let through my 72% buffed defense during a SSB was the one that one shot me. Then it became failing resist.

[ninja surprise]

10 hours ago, JayboH said:

Often?  What do you mean - do most electric armor players jump and fly all over the place?

 

I've never cared much for elec armor personally even though I tend to favor sets with damage auras.

 

I'm an aggressive Combat Jumper and always take Fly/Mystic Flight. On my elec armor I'd occasionally get hit with a KB while jumping or airborne - usually by those Knives of Vengeance bird ladies who do the big earthquake things. It's rarer to get hit by a Nemesis Staff while jumping, or any of those types of attacks.

But after I slotted one anti-KB IO it solved those woes.  In long fights vs things with lots of KB/KD powers I'd usually be on the ground and never get knocked back.

[Ston]

I wish Tankers could use Energy Aura.. I could see that being an instant A-Tier.

[ninja surprise]

9 hours ago, America's Angel said:

I'm not sure how SR can compete with Invuln and Shield. They have more res, more health, and do +dam. (And in Invuln's case, a huge heal.)

 

Better DDR and bonus recharge in quickness?

 

One thing is SR and Invuln get access to secondaries that Shield doesn't.

 

What SR gets over Invuln is all the positional Psi attacks that SR can avoid and Invuln doesn't. And depending on how much Energy defense you've got, SR dodges most end-drain effects that might hit Invuln.

Oh and the slow resist is to die for! No matter how many caltrops the Knives of Artemis drop, you just run right over them, attacks always recharge on time, it's so nice.

SR is the absolute cheapest to soft-cap, making it a bargain that doesn't need Winters or other expensive sets.

[arcane]

9 hours ago, America's Angel said:

I'm not sure how SR can compete with Invuln and Shield. They have more res, more health, and do +dam. (And in Invuln's case, a huge heal.)

 

Better DDR and bonus recharge in quickness?

SR has more resistance before you die. My SR is definitely one if my better tankers. Health bar moves more than Invuln, but still doesn’t die, and has way more slots to spare for offense/procs. I still need a Shield tank though (only have the Elec/Shield scrapper).

 

These are my Tankers atm:

 

Bio/Rad
Dark/Spines

Elec/SS

Invuln/Claws

Rad/Savage
SR/BS

Stone/Kin (Graniteless)

 

All do pretty well. It’s hard to make a bad tanker nowadays.

 

Graniteless would be worst on survivability if I had to pick one (has a lot of proc bomb attacks to make up for a generally bad secondary - pulls slots away from mitigation). Invuln, Dark, or SR best on survivability I guess. Rad and Bio best on damage. Maybe SR on damage too just because basically all your slots can go to offense.

Edited June 10, 2021 by arcane

[Hyperstrike]

14 hours ago, Madae said:

I'm not an expert, but I really like my Elec/Elec Tanker. Only have something like 78% resist and 20% defense and I don't really explode all that easily. Toxic damage is all I really have to worry about, but I'm slowly building that up with sets. You get a heal, you get a endurance clicky, you get AOE damage and resists for just about everything. Probably the most fun I've had in this game, as I tend to choose based on theme and more often than not end up with something mediocre and not all that interesting, but I have no issue with E/E at all.

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Amp Rage Supertough: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(19)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(29)
Level 2: Lightning Field -- PrfShf-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), EffAdp-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(5), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(7), EffAdp-EndMod/Acc(7), EndRdx-I(9)
Level 4: Conductive Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), GldArm-3defTpProc(19)
Level 6: Static Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), UnbGrd-Max HP%(15)
Level 8: Grounded -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(15), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 10: Jacobs Ladder -- Mlt-Acc/Dmg(A), Mlt-Acc/EndRdx(23), Mlt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mlt-Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 12: Energize -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(33), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(34), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(34)
Level 14: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 16: Thunder Strike -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39)
Level 18: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
Level 20: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Power Sink -- PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(A), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(31), EffAdp-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(33)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(42)
Level 32: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 35: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg(A), FuroftheG-Dam/Rech(39), FuroftheG-Dam/End/Rech(39), FuroftheG-Acc/End/Rech(40), FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 44: Mu Lightning -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Ball Lightning -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(43), Mrc-Rcvry+(43)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(45), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(45)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
------------

 

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3 hours ago, arcane said:

SR has more resistance before you die.

I HAVE ALL THE RESISTANCE!
*Gets cherry-tapped with 1HP*
YOU
ARE
DEAD!

 

[JayboH]

On 6/10/2021 at 12:04 AM, Bopper said:

In fairness, I only learned this during the page 2 beta cycle. Originally I thought the resistance worked like mez resistance, where it would be 

New Mag = KB Mag / (1 + KB resistance). Given that some armors provide 10,000% KB resistance, it made sense to think that from the context. Perhaps the Live devs thought that was how it worked too when giving those values.

 

It wasn't until we found an early version of Evasive Maneuvers was granted insane protection with a single 3 KB set bonus that we realized what the true formula is. I think Number Six was the one to confirm that formula. 

I took resistance to mean lower mag, as in, kd instead of kb if it got through.  Very interesting stuff.

[JayboH]

It's nice hearing other SR tanks chiming in, for awhile there I thought I was the only one.

Edited June 12, 2021 by JayboH

[lemming]

On 6/9/2021 at 9:48 PM, JayboH said:

Often?  What do you mean - do most electric armor players jump and fly all over the place?

 

I've never cared much for elec armor personally even though I tend to favor sets with damage auras.

I've been knocked back doing Lightning Rod and just hopping, but a little KB resist via a set prevents most issues

[JayboH]

On 6/10/2021 at 10:50 AM, Cirque said:

I wish Tankers could use Energy Aura.. I could see that being an instant A-Tier.

Yeah.  If that ever happens, I wonder if they would get Disrupt.  I assume they would get Cloak instead just like Scrappers and Brutes do.

 

I wonder if Regen is off the table because you practically eat every debuff in the world when you play Regen.

[StriderIV]

12 hours ago, JayboH said:

It's nice hearing other SB tanks chiming in, for awhile there I thought I was the only one.

Loving this thread! Excuse my ignorance though: what is SB?

[JayboH]

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

Loving this thread! Excuse my ignorance though: what is SR?

Corrected, thanks

[MaximusPrime]

 

6 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Loving this thread! Excuse my ignorance though: what is SB?

SR is a mediocre Defensive set.  Its a one trick pony, just Defense with highest DDR.  Because SR characters were always eating dirt they added in scaling resist which buffs your resistance to damage inversely to your health.  It works ok but SR will still take more dirt naps than more robust sets like Shield, Invuln, etc.  

 

I have a buddy who is a SR worshipper, he has SR Tanks, scrappers, stalkers, etc.  I don't mind really because it is nice to have veng bait on the team sometimes.

[StriderIV]

13 hours ago, JayboH said:

Corrected, thanks

Oh no worries dude, I just wasn’t sure! I haven’t rolled an SR yet, will have to give it a shot in the near future!