Galaxy City's destruction: questions

[Techwright]

Multiple questions regarding the choice to destroy Galaxy City: 

 

• Why was it done? Yes I know the story had to show the Battalion vanguard in action, but what made the development team pick Galaxy City for the chopping block?  Was it seen as really bad or really useless, or some other negative characteristic?  Or was it possibly chosen because it was good and they wanted to create emotional impact?

 

• In your opinion, was Galaxy City the right choice for the zone to be destroyed?  Would you have considered another zone a better choice?

 

• Lastly, lore-wise, what's currently going on in the spot that used to be Galaxy City?  I don't recall.  Is the vanguard still roaming the ruins?  If so, are there missions to purge them from the planet?  If not, why not.

---

In answering that second question, personally,  I'm not sure GC was the best choice (keep in mind I lack an answer as to why the devs chose it).  At the time, computers were still draggy when too many entered Atlas Park, and with it being a major hub zone (and invasions still being a thing in AP, if I recall correctly), we really needed a lesser populated starting zone.  At least, that was my opinion.  Removing GC increased the traffic to Atlas Park.  Nowadays its not so much a problem since most have newer computers.

 

As to what zone I'd like to have seen destruction rained down upon instead, I'd have picked Skyway City.  That place is a mess of useless road systems, and confusing understreet sections.  Even the NPCs get confused where they need to be.  Destroying it might have allowed for a complete rebuild/redesign, possibly faster than other zones due to its multiple connections, unlike say, Boomtown.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Techwright

[BraveDecoy]

While I can't say for certain the original reasons, I vaguely remember something about Galaxy being redundant; especially after Atlas got it's makeover.  Atlas was the preferred starting hub, so when they needed to revamp the tutorial they decided to drop Galaxy as the secondary starting zone.  (I was happy with Outbreak/Breakout myself)

 

The Lore AMA series on the old Paragon Wiki says that there was discussions about revisiting Galaxy as a 40+ or 50+ zone, but things never got past the drawing board before the big shutdown.  I think that right now Galaxy is stuck in the "Evacuate the civilians and contain the Shivans" phase.

 

Plus I think Galaxy was an easier place to clear out of anything important.  The only thing that didn't have a direct counterpart in Atlas was the Warshade specific contact, which was an easy relocation.  

[SeraphimKensai]

My understanding of the conversation and mind you I wasn't in the room but the idea was to nuke a starter zone that was redundant to it's respective side blue, red, or gold. Apparently the idea of nuking Atlas was floated but was quickly nixxed because of the perceived outcry that would ensue.

 

Galaxy City is currently home to GM Bot. Reconstruction efforts haven't started to my understanding, as the game's story was severed when the game shutdown. What the future may hold, who knows.

 

That said Galaxy City was the better blue side starting zone.

Edited March 26, 2023 by SeraphimKensai

[Mjolnerd]

My understanding was that, basically, there were two starting zones that fundamentally served the exact same purpose, and more importantly, served the same 1-5 level band. This meant splitting new players, who might not know about all of the tools available to them to find a team (plus some of the tools we have now didn't exist at the time), into two different zones, which led to them having a hard time finding teams, and therefore, being less likely to keep playing and/or paying.

 

Of the two, the one that saw vastly more traffic was Atlas, largely because most players who actually knew the difference between the two starting zones were choosing the one that had other players, costume contests, and the big cool statue in it, not to mention easier access to the Hollows, which is where pretty much everyone was going to end up anyway due to the way contacts were structured at the time -- everybody wanted to introduce you to David Wincott. If you're going to make one of those two redundant, you do it with the empty one.

 

Skyway, for all its flaws, at the very least serves a level band that no other zone completely overlapped with. Not that that matters much in the modern game, but it was a bigger deal back on live.

[Mjolnerd]

7 minutes ago, BraveDecoy said:

Plus I think Galaxy was an easier place to clear out of anything important.  The only thing that didn't have a direct counterpart in Atlas was the Warshade specific contact, which was an easy relocation.  

 

Technically it also had an arena, not that anybody was going to notice (or care about) one of those disappearing from the game.

[Snarky]

Why is any city destroyed?  Story.  Drama.

 

Pompeii.   Without the destruction you would know is about as well as you know the city of Plovdev.  
 

If you want a dramatic story. You gotta break a few eggs.  

[UltraAlt]

9 hours ago, Techwright said:

Why was it done? Yes I know the story had to show the Battalion vanguard in action, but what made the development team pick Galaxy City for the chopping block?  Was it seen as really bad or really useless, or some other negative characteristic?  Or was it possibly chosen because it was good and they wanted to create emotional impact?

 

My speculation is two fold.

 

One is funneling. With F2P and only one starting zone for Villains and Praetoria, the DEVs seems to want to funnel all the new F2P heroes through Atlas (of course on some servers they just went immediately to the AE to power level and then struggle to figure out how to leave Altas Park).

 

Game size. Back then storage and bandwidth isn't like it is now and the size of a game made a difference. With both City of Villains and Going Rogue being released (and even before then) the were making subtle cuts in existing content here and there. Even downloading updates was very time consuming.

 

Honestly, I probably leveled up 25-30% of my characters in Galaxy. The fighting around the lake in Galaxy is a lot more fun (dangerous) than Atlas. If you get the O-portal from the get-go, you can still go to Shadow Galaxy and level by hunting the lake. Without the contacts, that's all it really is at this point unless you want the explore badges or the nostalgia of looking around the zone. I had a lot of fun times there.

if I recall correctly, at least some of the time Tanker Tuesday would assemble in Galaxy City.

 

Was it an emotional impact? I don't really think so so much.

It did give them the ability to make the new tutorial that allowed you to pick if you were a hero or villain on the way out versus picking by tutorial or direct zoning to one side or the other.

 

9 hours ago, Techwright said:

In your opinion, was Galaxy City the right choice for the zone to be destroyed?  Would you have considered another zone a better choice?

 

When the F2P AE Babies invades, they all went to Atlas and that made Galaxy look like a ghost town by comparison.

If you are going to nix out a zone, it's going to be an old low level one that isn't be used before a newer zone that the DEVs are trying to hype.

 

9 hours ago, Techwright said:

Lastly, lore-wise, what's currently going on in the spot that used to be Galaxy City?  I don't recall.  Is the vanguard still roaming the ruins?  If so, are there missions to purge them from the planet?  If not, why not.

 

There is a tutorial about what is going on in Galaxy City now.

 

9 hours ago, Techwright said:

At the time, computers were still draggy when too many entered Atlas Park, and with it being a major hub zone (and invasions still being a thing in AP, if I recall correctly), we really needed a lesser populated starting zone.

 

When enough players are in a zone, a 2nd instance forms. I remember when there were 3 or 4 Atlases up at on one server or another.

 

9 hours ago, Techwright said:

That place is a mess of useless road systems, and confusing understreet sections.

 

oh, but it is the only place for Supa Troll Raves

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Troll_Rave

 

+ Babbage shows up there!

 

honestly, it was the first vertical zone. Something that the DEVs strove for with/in CoV.

[SeraphimKensai]

9 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

 

Technically it also had an arena, not that anybody was going to notice (or care about) one of those disappearing from the game.

The PvP Community noticed both the Arena in Galaxy City and Talos disappearing.

[Glacier Peak]

6 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

The PvP Community noticed both the Arena in Galaxy City and Talos disappearing.

Indeed! While the arena event slash command and menu option have since been obviated this concern on Homecoming, I greatly appreciate the memories I made in these. Standing tall next to the arena kiosks in Galaxy City during the release of Issue 4 and running through the different level brackets and huge battles that ensued because nobody knew what was good or bad - cherished memories for me and my compatriots back then. The next closest memory would've been the introduction of Bloody Bay and Siren's Call after the release of CoV.

 

Magical times!

Edited March 26, 2023 by Glacier Peak

[Glacier Peak]

As for Galaxy City and the thread - it still exists in game. Not just the Echo version of it. As was pointed out above, GM_Bot resides there and anyone with the right authorities, namely GMs or dev console users can visit it.

 

Why it was chosen? No clue, I think from a lore perspective it had something to do with Shivans and the 'Coming Storm.' I do wish Shivans were more developed as a faction in this game, perhaps that's a future thread that can be picked up by Homecoming. 

[lemming]

Echo: Galaxy does have two required items; Exploration Brawler for Freedom Phalanx accolade, and a Pupil history plaque for the Atlas Medallion

 

And yea, Galaxy was chopped due to redundancy and then the story got interrupted.  You get a little more with Dr Grave (???) and Twinshots arcs of what is going on

[honoroit]

Im guessing as the pop dwindled the dev team wanted to funnel new characters on blue to one zone?

[High_Beam]

20 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

That said Galaxy City was the better blue side starting zone.

I always started in Galaxy and my 50's would hoof it (unless impossible) to Atlas to train one last time with Liberty.

[Snarky]

10 hours ago, High_Beam said:

I always started in Galaxy and my 50's would hoof it (unless impossible) to Atlas to train one last time with Liberty.

i have heard of this tradition.  i started redside and not the same as that lol

[Luminara]

I have no inside information or insight on the reasoning behind the decision to revamp Galaxy City... but I do object to it.  Not because I was attached to it, but because the very idea was a grossly overused plot device.  It wasn't creative or interesting.

 

The Hollows?  Destroyed by Trolls.

Boomtown?  Destroyed by the Rikti.

Faultline?  Destroyed by Faultline.

Eden?  Destroyed by Devouring Earth.

First Ward?  Destroyed by Hamidon.

Galaxy City?  Destroyed by Shivans.

 

That's not even a comprehensive list, it's just what I noted off the top of my head.  Every time Cryptic or Paragon wanted to convey "dangerous", they did it by saying X destroyed <insert city zone here>.  That's unimaginative and lazy, and it removes any sense of threat.  Who the fuck cares if something devastated a section of <insert city here>?  That happens every Tuesday around here.

 

Blah.

[High_Beam]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

i have heard of this tradition.  i started redside and not the same as that lol

Yeah well I only ran one villain to 50 (Low Beam) on live because red side was dead side even back then.  When they let me switch allegiances my MM went blue before hitting 50.

[srmalloy]

11 hours ago, Luminara said:

Boomtown?  Destroyed by the Rikti.

Actually, if I remember the early videos, a large part of the destruction of Baumton can be laid directly at the feet of the Freedom Phalanx for not considering the fact that if you destroy a gigantic vehicle hovering over part of your city, the wreckage is going to come down on your city. I think there are still some in-game references to this.

 

Update: In the City of Heroes Official Trailer, at about 1:45, you see Statesman and the rest of the Freedom Phalanx attacking a Rikti mothership, then the mothership going down smoking into an extensively built-up city area. If you look in the distance, you can see open water; comparing the position of the Rikti Warzone on the in-game city map, there's no way this can be the ship that crashes in the RWZ; it's going down too fast and in the wrong location. And Statesman and the rest are just hanging there in mid-air watching it crash.

Edited March 27, 2023 by srmalloy

[Sir Myshkin]

I remember the choice of using Galaxy City was entirely tied to the developers wanting to introduce a new/revised tutorial system into the game when it bounced into the F2P realm, and in the efforts of both stream lining where folks ended up post-tutorial/creation, and future story endeavors, GC was the one chosen because it has far fewer traffic points of Atlas and would allow for a much wider "blank canvas" to repair/reconfigure down the road. Removing GC as a stable hub also took one more thing off the servers to maintain a dynamic population in outside of a rudimentary tutorial.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Change for change's sake.

 

Unnecessary and unwanted by most I'd wager.

[MoonSheep]

[Techwright]

On 3/27/2023 at 9:49 AM, srmalloy said:

Actually, if I remember the early videos, a large part of the destruction of Baumton can be laid directly at the feet of the Freedom Phalanx for not considering the fact that if you destroy a gigantic vehicle hovering over part of your city, the wreckage is going to come down on your city. I think there are still some in-game references to this.

 

Update: In the City of Heroes Official Trailer, at about 1:45, you see Statesman and the rest of the Freedom Phalanx attacking a Rikti mothership, then the mothership going down smoking into an extensively built-up city area. If you look in the distance, you can see open water; comparing the position of the Rikti Warzone on the in-game city map, there's no way this can be the ship that crashes in the RWZ; it's going down too fast and in the wrong location. And Statesman and the rest are just hanging there in mid-air watching it crash.

It does look like they're hovering over someplace like Siren's Call with Peregrine island in the distance over the water.  The only possible explanation for it to be the RWZ (called White Plains originally) would be if they were looking east over a very big Independence Point harbor, and the developed island was an early design for Terra Volta.

[tidge]

I always tried to start in Galaxy City, so its "destruction" hit me right in the feels... see also Dark Astoria. In the case of the Incarnate revamp, I mind less, as it sort of explains some of the things you learn along the way, and plus without the 'mist' it is easier to appreciate the map.

 

Lore-wise? After the tutorial, I think only Twinshot's arc goes back there. I can't recall if Dr. Graves links to it.

[CentralNexus]

I always got the impression the zone was simply rarely used.   People could start in EITHER Atlas or Galaxy and the huge majority were in Atlas.   Teams forming where the crowds were.  Plus the SGs recruiting, tended to favor Atlas.   With the Galaxy zone virtually empty by comparison, I would guess they would want to retire it.    To make a zone absent, destruction was the only way...

 

I do remember our group on Virtue, Golden Age Heroes always doing events in the Galaxy arena.   Big band and Swing music on the Cape Radio, with themed costume contests.   A lot of OLD 40s and 50s era costumes were common.   We even had one event where the RIKTI raided the zone mid event.   

[Techwright]

19 hours ago, CentralNexus said:

I always got the impression the zone was simply rarely used.   People could start in EITHER Atlas or Galaxy and the huge majority were in Atlas.   Teams forming where the crowds were.  Plus the SGs recruiting, tended to favor Atlas.   With the Galaxy zone virtually empty by comparison, I would guess they would want to retire it.    To make a zone absent, destruction was the only way...

 

I do remember our group on Virtue, Golden Age Heroes always doing events in the Galaxy arena.   Big band and Swing music on the Cape Radio, with themed costume contests.   A lot of OLD 40s and 50s era costumes were common.   We even had one event where the RIKTI raided the zone mid event.   

 

While I wouldn't call Galaxy City "rarely used" it was indeed the lesser used of the two starter zones.  Galaxy Girl didn't have the presence and draw that Atlas and his globe did.  GC did have advantages for a sparser population:  less drag on lower-end computers.   

 

Man, I wish I'd known about Virtue's Golden Age Heroes.  Big Band and Swing are among my favorite music forms (I grew up surrounded by WWII folk, and their culture is infused in me), and pulp and dieselpunk era looks are my favorites.

[Go0gleplex]

Galaxy was definitely the more fun place to start having a better layout than Atlas. The missions were more spread out and some could have been better...and as said, it was a bit plainer around the starting plaza area than Atlas. Still, they could've increased the mission count and made things a bit tougher than Atlas to encourage the 'vets' to start there and leaving Atlas for the complete newbs.  Atlas now just seems too crammed up with all the various mobs and such.  Perez and Boom are ghost towns with little point other than hunting grounds and could use some love as well in the future. But I'd love to see Galaxy come back someday. Running around Echo is nostalgic but not having much to do than badge hunting is a downer.