Focused Feedback: Epic / Ancillary Power Pools

[LastHumanSoldier]

Epic > Fire Mastery > Bonfire (Blaster/Mastermind) - Knockdown rate has been reduced while using KB2KD enhancements

 

Just tested this on my Fire/Earth Dominator. 
I feel its been pretty much completely gutted out.

On average i see about 2 enemies knocked down, and very inconsistent.

I want to point out, that Fire control does NEED bonfire to be good. Just drop/skip the power like everyone did on Live.

As far as usability on Blasters, Its not something I will be using anymore and looking for new Epic/Patrons for my builds.

Edit- Keeping it on my Archer/Trick arrow blaster. Stacks enough with OSA to make it worth keeping around.

(Also noting its not something I NEED on my blaster builds either, it was good for preventing runners)

 

Life will go on.

 

Edited January 24 by LastHumanSoldier

[noogens2]

1 hour ago, LastHumanSoldier said:

Epic > Fire Mastery > Bonfire (Blaster/Mastermind) - Knockdown rate has been reduced while using KB2KD enhancements

 

Just tested this on my Fire/Earth Dominator. 
I feel its been pretty much completely gutted out.

On average i see about 2 enemies knocked down, and very inconsistent.

 

 

I just tested this on a fire controller and it's much weaker there as well.  It looks like a global nerf contrary to the release notes.  

[Ice Ember]

If you are going to change an AoE to ranged AoE, can you make a ranged IO set with the same bonuses as Obliteration? (Maybe a different proc damage though)

[LastHumanSoldier]

Wrong Thread!

 

 

Edited January 25 by LastHumanSoldier

[SwitchFade]

2 hours ago, noogens2 said:

 

I just tested this on a fire controller and it's much weaker there as well.  It looks like a global nerf contrary to the release notes.  

If this is a global nerf to bonfire, I have a huge issue with that. If this is as intended, I don't know if I want to log back in any longer; I just don't feel good about this one and I've been one of the crowd that has been pretty understanding of previous adjustments.

 

Yeah, it may seem like a tiny thing, but the feeling on this one is not good and primaries like fire control were not overpowered with this power as it was. This reduction in power, if global and not a mistake, will make fire control primaries significantly less... everything.

 

I'll wait to hear more before making decisions and hope it was not intended to be global, but if it is.... Too far.

Edited January 25 by SwitchFade

[Arcadio]

Sorry but Bonfire is changed to behave like every other source of AoE continuous KB does with a KB -> KD. It either shouldn't be so strong with that, or all the other KB's should be stronger. 

Edited January 25 by Arcadio

[SwitchFade]

50 minutes ago, Arcadio said:

Sorry but Bonfire is changed to behave like every other source of AoE continuous KB does with a KB -> KD. It either shouldn't be so strong with that, or all the other KB's should be stronger. 

Your opinion and not the point of this thread, we give feedback and not debate each other on the finer points of opinions.

 

On topic, if this change is global, it's ill advised, from my perspective. Leave primaries with. Bonfire as they were.

 

I'll wait for official reply.

[Videra]

Regarding Leviathan Hunger, would it be possible to get this to have an alert for when you're capped on stacks? Much like STJ's Combo Points and the orange circles that surround spenders, for example. If only for the sake of consistency with similar mechanics.

[Apotheosis]

• Patron > Mu Mastery > Conserve Power (Corruptor/Defender) - Changed to Energize. Recharge lowered from 600 to 480s, end cost increased from 9.75 to 13. Now accept Healing enhancements and sets

Energize replacing Conserve Power in Mu Mastery is pretty great. Access to a reasonable Self Heal, with the End Discount effect still present definitely offers a more compelling choice in that Patron Pool, I believe.

However, though they lowered its base recharge already, it still feels way too long even with a high recharge build. I managed to get it down to 2 minutes and 6 seconds(190% Global Recharge + 90% Enhanced Recharge). For powersets with natural access to Energize, such as Electric Armor and Energy Aura, it's base recharge is 2 minutes. 

 

I do believe it likely shouldn't be equal to other Powersets base recharges, being a Patron Pool, however, 2+ minutes definitely feels a little too long when your entire build is devoted to recharge. I think shaving another 30-45 seconds off, might really help this change out.

 

Especially when normally the penalty of an Epic Pool having a power from regular powerset is 2x-3x the recharge. At max that would put Energize around 6 minutes, not 8.

 

Edited January 25 by Apotheosis

[ScarySai]

Spirit shark could use a teal circle at five stacks

 

also: find it odd to nerf bonfire now, since it's been falling out of favor for awhile now. Most fire blasters go soul now, it just works better.

Edited January 25 by ScarySai

[macskull]

3 hours ago, Apotheosis said:

However, though they lowered its base recharge already, it still feels way too long even with a high recharge build. I managed to get it down to 2 minutes and 6 seconds(190% Global Recharge + 90% Enhanced Recharge). For powersets with natural access to Energize, such as Electric Armor and Energy Aura, it's base recharge is 2 minutes. 

 

 

I do believe it likely shouldn't be equal to other Powersets base recharges, being a Patron Pool, however, 2+ minutes definitely feels a little too long when your entire build is devoted to recharge. I think shaving another 30-45 seconds off, might really help this change out.

 

Especially when normally the penalty of an Epic Pool having a power from regular powerset is 2x-3x the recharge. At max that would put Energize around 6 minutes, not 8.

All this and its duration is only 30 seconds instead of the 60 seconds the in-set versions get. Conserve Power at least had the same 90-second duration the old in-set version had.

 

EDIT: I suppose I'll just plug this now, because I've said it elsewhere before - this change and the new sustains in the new pools are cool, and I understand the epic recharge penalty is a thing (even if I vehemently disagree with it), but the 8-10 minute recharge timer takes what should be tempting power picks and kneecaps them before they've even left the gate.

Edited January 25 by macskull

[Dahkness]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

Spirit shark could use a teal circle at five stacks

 

also: find it odd to nerf bonfire now, since it's been falling out of favor for awhile now. Most fire blasters go soul now, it just works better.

The kb to knockdown is op imo for bone fire. My bubble auror doesn't get this effect. Just like Def/cors DM Soul drain. Things need to be adjusted to be fair 

Edited January 25 by Dahkness

[BurtHutt]

On 1/23/2024 at 4:52 PM, arcane said:

Fixing something that everyone knows is broken is less a nerf and more just, ya know, doing the right thing

What was broken about it?

[Steam_InGen]

Spoiler

• Epic > Fire Mastery > Bonfire (Blaster/Mastermind) - Knockdown rate has been reduced while using KB2KD enhancements
• Epic > Fire Mastery > Char (Blaster/Corruptor/Defender) - Recharge increased from 16s to 24s, range lowered from 80ft to 60ft
• Epic > Fire Mastery > Char (Brute/Corruptor/Defender/Scrapper/Stalker/Tanker/Mastermind/Sentinel)  - Recharge reduced from 32s to 24s
• Epic > Fire Mastery > Char (Brute/Mastermind/Scrapper/Sentinel/Stalker/Tanker) - Range increased from 50ft to 60ft
• Epic > Fire Mastery > Fire Blast (Brute/Scrapper/Stalker/Tanker) - Recharge increased from 6s to 8s
• Epic > Fire Mastery > Fire Cages (Sentinel) - Recharge increased from 16s to 20s, Endurance cost lowered from 19.5 to 12.74
• Epic > Fire Mastery > Fire Shield (Blaster/Controller/Coruptor/Defender/Dominator) - Recharge increased from 4s to 8s
• Epic > Fire Mastery > Melt Armor (Blaster/Brute/Scrapper/Stalker/Tanker) - -res Scale increased from scale 1.5 to scale 3. -Defense scale increased from scale 1 to scale 2.

 

I'd say overall the changes are good in relation to blaster epics. One thing I've been hoping for to change is Swapping out rise of the phoenix for Rising phoenix , like the one given to brutes. I'd  much rather take that then some of my power choices. I guess not only blasters, but any class that has rise of the phoenix. That is my input. lol

[Underfyre]

So does nobody else think that Possess on Blasters with such a short cooldown is incredibly over powered? Or is everyone here just a Blaster wringing their hands hoping it makes it through beta with no changes?

[WitchofDread]

3 hours ago, Underfyre said:

So does nobody else think that Possess on Blasters with such a short cooldown is incredibly over powered? Or is everyone here just a Blaster wringing their hands hoping it makes it through beta with no changes?

Giving blasters a strong confusion on a short cd is completely stupid.

[Chris24601]

Having tried more of the sets out, I’m going to make a blanket statement, that the basic ranged attacks for melee archetypes would be better served if you reduced the base damage instead of increasing the recharge times.

 

Because of their nature, the melee ATs are never going to have sufficient ranged powers to really chain anything, so being able to have something to tag runners (typically on their last sliver of health) and not have to worry so much about  whether or not its recharged is going to have much more utility than a hard-hitting slow recharge ranged attack power (that’s what a snipe is for).

 

Leaving some sets with quicker, but less damaging, ranged attacks while others have the longer recharge higher damage ones would allow players the choice of which version is best for them.

[PorkTips]

On 1/20/2024 at 10:53 AM, Booper said:

Thanks, that is fixed internally. I am not sure how it missed this release.

 

Is there any chance we could let it take both Ranged AOE sets and Melee AOE sets?

 

I play a lot of Corruptors and Defenders, and I usually take this powerset and I usually take Soul Drain, because I like to play in close. But most important, I take Soul Drain because it is one of the FEW places I can get a 10% global recharge bonus from a Purple set. MOST powers in the Epics are ranged and ranged AOEs, but I usually already have a Ragnarok and Apocalypse elsewhere.

 

So Soul Drain is the #1 premium spot to take a PBAOE purple set (Armageddon).

 

So while there is the silver lining that I'll be pulling about 20 purple sets out of all my characters from Soul Drain, it also means all of those characters will lose 5% global recharge, that can't be made up anywhere else.

 

Just a minor request. But it sure would be nice to preserve the set functionality of this power.

 

Thanks for all you do. Cheers!

 

[arcane]

1 minute ago, PorkTips said:

 

Is there any chance we could let it take both Ranged AOE sets and Melee AOE sets?

 

I play a lot of Corruptors and Defenders, and I usually take this powerset and I usually take Soul Drain, because I like to play in close. But most important, I take Soul Drain because it is one of the FEW places I can get a 10% global recharge bonus from a Purple set. MOST powers in the Epics are ranged and ranged AOEs, but I usually already have a Ragnarok and Apocalypse elsewhere.

 

So Soul Drain is the #1 premium spot to take a PBAOE purple set (Armageddon).

 

So while there is the silver lining that I'll be pulling about 20 purple sets out of all my characters from Soul Drain, it also means all of those characters will lose 5% global recharge, that can't be made up anywhere else.

 

Just a minor request. But it sure would be nice to preserve the set functionality of this power.

 

Thanks for all you do. Cheers!

 

You can still pick up Soul Drain from Soul Mastery

[Booper]

3 minutes ago, PorkTips said:

 

Is there any chance we could let it take both Ranged AOE sets and Melee AOE sets?

 

I play a lot of Corruptors and Defenders, and I usually take this powerset and I usually take Soul Drain, because I like to play in close. But most important, I take Soul Drain because it is one of the FEW places I can get a 10% global recharge bonus from a Purple set. MOST powers in the Epics are ranged and ranged AOEs, but I usually already have a Ragnarok and Apocalypse elsewhere.

 

So Soul Drain is the #1 premium spot to take a PBAOE purple set (Armageddon).

 

So while there is the silver lining that I'll be pulling about 20 purple sets out of all my characters from Soul Drain, it also means all of those characters will lose 5% global recharge, that can't be made up anywhere else.

 

Just a minor request. But it sure would be nice to preserve the set functionality of this power.

 

Thanks for all you do. Cheers!

 

We won't do that. But, if you currently have a character with that power, you can keep it slotted with melee AoE sets. Spirit Drain will keep those enhancements when it goes Live. If you respec or unslot those enhancements after Spirit Drain goes to Live, you won't be able to put them back.

[PorkTips]

On 1/20/2024 at 10:37 PM, Onlyasandwich said:

 

I get the logic of this given similarities with Tornado, but it throws a solid wrench in many of my builds as a frequent enjoyer of Leviathan pool. The bonuses and procs available are significantly different. Is there any way we could consider preserving the Ranged aoe opportunity, and adding pet sets?

 

The logic for set application on many powers is sometimes a bit squishy, and ranged aoe is by no means an unintuitive fit for the power.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no! Terrible news. I hadnt noticed this before. I believe this is a terrible option (Water Spout no longer taking Targeted AOE).

 

I always build hard for global recharge and ranged defense. Especially ranged defense. I love having a powerset to put both Ragnarok and Artillery for both of those. I usually put Artillery in Water Spout because you can get 4% ranged defense from it, or close. This straight up breaks about 30 controllers I have, in terms of shooting for ranged defense soft cap. But there is no way to switch it out. As a controller I already have a full Recharge Intensive set in my pet, and one of those is unique, and so I cant get a full set twice (full set required). And also there are no 10% global recharge sets in Pets, for when I use it for the ragnarok. But usually I do Artillery. Sometimes in both it and Bile Spray.

 

Leviathan is the best set for "I'm not afffiliated with Arachnos" set in terms of tne Coralax pet, and it fits so well with nature or mutation themed builds. And there is no other set with 2 targeted AOEs and a pet and an armor set that I can think of.

 

So I'm looking at expensive rebuilds on ..... a mind bogglingly huge and EXPENSIVE number of controllers and dominators that I've made since 2019. Or else live with a massive drop in Ranged Defense.

 

Is there any way to allow the Water Spout to keep Ranged AOE sets as well as pet sets? The time and influence required to retrofit 30-40 characters ..... oof.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

[PorkTips]

14 minutes ago, Booper said:

We won't do that. But, if you currently have a character with that power, you can keep it slotted with melee AoE sets. Spirit Drain will keep those enhancements when it goes Live. If you respec or unslot those enhancements after Spirit Drain goes to Live, you won't be able to put them back.

 

Bad news then.

 

OK so youre saying respec NOW :) if I have any to do and I want to keep my sets. OK thanks for the info. 

 

Cheers!!

 

[KaizenSoze]

14 minutes ago, PorkTips said:

 

Bad news then.

 

OK so youre saying respec NOW 🙂if I have any to do and I want to keep my sets. OK thanks for the info. 

 

Cheers!!

 

You won't lose the sets, the /respec will allow them to move them to inventory. You just won't be able to slot them in a power.

[PorkTips]

30 minutes ago, arcane said:

You can still pick up Soul Drain from Soul Mastery

 

Soul Mastery doesnt have Oppressive Gloom which I like to stack with Thunder Clap and/or Dark Pit, so thats a build-purpose deal-breaker there.

 

But I guess I could just take Soul Transfer. I never take Rez powers but if I want to avoid a 5% global recharge drop and dont care about the damage buff, then it gives me an option. So I do appreciate the suggestion, it reminded me there is another place for a set mule if I need it.

 

Thanks!

 

[PorkTips]

1 minute ago, KaizenSoze said:

You won't lose the sets, the /respec will allow them to move them to inventory. You just won't be able to slot them in a power.

 

I meant in terms of making sure I leave them in the power (assuming the benefit will remain) and doing my respec NOW, if I have any, so that I can let them remain grandfathered in.

 

I will add a "do not respec" column to my spreadsheets, so that I can flag any characters for whom a respec will prevent a re-slotting.

 

Thanks!