A little interested but wondering if the mega nerfs are still in this version of the game.

[Ironblade]

3 hours ago, CometCometh said:

I know I came back once near the end with my max level Fire/Ice tanker and literally couldn't take down basic enemies solo that were 10+ levels lower without spending minutes at a time trying. The character one point could pull an entire max level hazard zone and kill it all. That was too much, but the nerfs basically made the damage output barely a tickle, and I would be insta-popped by almost anything my level as a tanker.

Okay, I took every tank armor set to level 50 back on live and it was never NEVER like you're describing it.  As for the tanks herding the entire zone, the fix for that was adjusting the aggro cap and nothing more.  Now tanks can only have 16 enemies 'mad' at them.  There was no damage nerf to stop tanks from herding entire zones.

 

Either your memory is playing horrible tricks on you or you had no idea how to play back then.  Either way, you should be pleasantly surprised by the current state of the game.

[Glacier Peak]

25 minutes ago, Azari said:

Who says? And why? Regen is fine. It seems like people hardly use it outside of PVP anyway. Nerfing Regen again would only serve to piss people off. Literally nobody is complaining about regen being OP these days. I sincerely hope there are no regen nerfs planned.

That's the joke - though it's not apparent if you've not been reading the "they're going to nerf regen" meme posts since Issue 3 (after the changes to Instant Healing and Moment of Glory)

[Oubliette_Red]

29 minutes ago, Azari said:

Who says? And why? Regen is fine. It seems like people hardly use it outside of PVP anyway. Nerfing Regen again would only serve to piss people off. Literally nobody is complaining about regen being OP these days. I sincerely hope there are no regen nerfs planned.

[CometCometh]

7 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Hell I have a scrapper that can do that (well stand indefinitely amongst) for sure against Cimerorans at +4/×8 and probably several other foe groups as well.  And no unless you were lvl 32 (or perhaps lower) you were not rounding up maps worth of foes that were 20 lvls over you as the game capped at Invincible notoriety which would yield +2 and +3 mobs.   Mathematically the statement is obvious hyperbole as there have never been level 60 or 70+ foes for an endgame Tanker to take on.  Only level 54s that appeared consistently that I know of were Rikti (and brought about what became known as the RWZ challenge).  What ED and the global defense nerfs took away has long since been equalled and surpassed by IO sets, Incarnates and many quality of life changes occurring after i6 or so.

 

It was awhile ago, and yah, I power leveled by fire/ice tanker level 30+ killing level 50+ enemies at a time. Whole zones. Literally I remember going around a max level hazard zone at 30ish, running through the map hitting provoke on every stupid group I saw and generating a massive train of enemies until I basically had the whole zone. Jump in a dumpster, watch everything jump in after me stacking in the same spot, and then die to burn and ice patch. It was quite silly OP even back then. They nerfed it down through the years and many patches. At one point mega nerfed it to the point that when I logged on later at level 50, I couldn't kill lower level 40 regular mobs with the character. 

[High_Beam]

<Slows down the Malibu and rolls down the window.  Listens.  Then quickly rolls up window and speeds away>

[Nuc]

10 minutes ago, CometCometh said:

 

It was awhile ago, and yah, I power leveled by fire/ice tanker level 30+ killing level 50+ enemies at a time. Whole zones. Literally I remember going around a max level hazard zone at 30ish, running through the map hitting provoke on every stupid group I saw and generating a massive train of enemies until I basically had the whole zone. Jump in a dumpster, watch everything jump in after me stacking in the same spot, and then die to burn and ice patch. It was quite silly OP even back then. They nerfed it down through the years and many patches. At one point mega nerfed it to the point that when I logged on later at level 50, I couldn't kill lower level 40 regular mobs with the character. 

Was you Tank called Walter Mitty by any chance?

[Andreah]

If you actually take and slot your damage powers on a tanker, there is no way a regular mob ten levels lower than you is going to be a challenge.

 

 

If you still expect to be able to herd an entire zone, that's not going to happen. The aggro cap will stop you. If that's a hard requirement from you, you will be disappointed. 

Edited January 17 by Andreah

[CometCometh]

I don't care about herding entire zones. I remember the agro cap patch long ago. I was literally at one point unable to kill anything without taking a long time to do so. I just was wondering if the game was in that horrible state or not. Literally lots of people left the game because they nerfed everything into the ground at one point. Can't remember which patch it was. Again, this was years ago.

 

Made another Fire/Ice tanker like my original main. I think it was 18 to get burn and 24 for ice patch? When I get to 18 I'll be able to tell then I guess.

Edited January 17 by CometCometh

[PeregrineFalcon]

@CometCometh in answer to your question: NO, the game is NOT in a horrible state.

 

The game is in a great state. You'll have 1,000 free character slots per server. Characters now days are a little overpowered, but nothing like the days before ED. With Invention Origin Enhancements, introduced in Issue 9 IIRC, you can build a near unkillable character. You can even make a Blaster with Scrapper level defenses and permanent Mez Protection.

 

Yes, the game is in a great state. It's changed a bunch since you played 15+ years ago, but it's a ton of fun. Jump in and give it a shot.

[FoneBot]

2 hours ago, CometCometh said:

 

Nope. I can give a list of the remembered nerfs specifically for my fire/ice tanker. I had dozens of characters, but don't remember all the nerfs and what I was capable of before. So previously upon release of the game the Fire branch for Tanker had Burn which would make a patch of fire on the ground and do massive dot damage. It was literally the first nerfed introduced to the game. They reduced the damage a tiny bit and added a fear effect to the enemies hit by burn so they would try to get out. To use burn after than you had to get provoke to counter the fear effect. Until the nerfed provoke to not override fear effects. I was also using Ice so I could drop an ice patch first to make enemies slip and then drop burn. So they couldn't get away with the fear because they were slipping. Then they nerfed the ice patch so that the slip effect check was less frequent. At one point the slip check only ever happened once per enemy. So they could slip once ever and never again. I think they reverted that a tad later because the power was basically unusable at that point. Then the damage from Burn continued to be nerf over and over and over. It started doing tickle damage at one point. 

 

Let me put it this way, before all the major nerfs to Burn and Ice patch, I could literally pull an entire hazard zone 20+ levels above my character, jump into a dumpster to get the enemies to stack inside each other as they followed me in while jumping, and they would immediately start slipping and burning until death. Only the toughest bosses had a chance to escape or would take a long time to kill. Those weren't worth killing so I would move on to grabbing all the respawns instead. Again, that was probably too strong, but literally being able to take out hundreds of mobs in a few seconds was fun. My blasters couldn't do that, but they zoomed from group to group and literally 1 shot a group many levels above it as well. Basically many of the power sets, not all, had a massive AoE damage ability that could be used to 1 shot enemies 10+ levels above your current level. That was all nerfed into the ground at one point. I know some nerfs were lightened back up, and then some re-nerfed at some point. I know this because I came back one shortly before the game was closing. Got on my max level fire/ice tanker and tried to kill some mobs. Even a group that was 20 levels lower than me without bosses I couldn't kill with probably wasting a huge amount of time trying. I was wondering if the game was still in that state or not.

Yeah Fire/ice was a super effective PL build back in the day and without respeccing it when you came back at the end of live it would have been completely gimped, you are correct. The big hit to that build was ED and I THINK burn had a ToHit check added where it had none previously. If it was anything like mine you only had burn and frozen fists to do damage with 😅

[CometCometh]

22 minutes ago, FoneBot said:

Yeah Fire/ice was a super effective PL build back in the day and without respeccing it when you came back at the end of live it would have been completely gimped, you are correct. The big hit to that build was ED and I THINK burn had a ToHit check added where it had none previously. If it was anything like mine you only had burn and frozen fists to do damage with 😅

 

Yep, burn and frozen fists. Everything else was defense. I came back and could kill nothing. Didn't want to respec either. I was like this is horrible. It went from god mode to beggar mode. I don't know all of what was nerfed back then. I just know it was horrible. Several of my characters were in that state. Literally they were at one point gods able to destroy anything with a single attack or two. When I came back they couldn't kill anything and usually died to almost anything. It was more than a little disheartening. I left for good at that point. 

 

The first time I left it was already disappointing with the massive nerfs. I seriously remember how they were trying to balance around PVP. Looks like they made abilities run different finally for pvp than pve. Because originally those nerfs were crushing builds. Finally someone else remembers the game like I do.

[rolandgrey]

People have been telling you to just play the game.  If you're just here to whine about "Mah good ol' days!" you have definitely come to the wrong place.

 

People have been playing this game for years, both in the Paragon days and in the Homecoming days.  They've been meeting every challenge the devs have thrown at them and finding ways to do it efficiently.  They're having fun, and plenty people on this thread have tried to tell you ways to play to enjoy yourself, but you seem obsessed with this mythical power level that plenty other people have made clear exists only in your own head.

 

If you can't figure out how to defeat enemies, that's on you, pal.  Everybody else seems to be doing just fine.

[Coyotedancer]

Eh. The game is free to play now, Comet. Why not just jump in with a new tank and give it a try? See what you think this time around?

 

If you left "back in the day" before the invention system came along, do read up on Invention sets, set bonuses and all that, though. THAT's the real ticket to making a character who feels like a proper comic book hero or villain. Inventions go a long way towards countering the "nerfed"-feeling that enhancement diversification brought on.  Dumpster Diving may be a thing of the past, but with a solid IO build you can still make a mess of a fair-sized pile of goons. 

 

Or... if you really want something that kind-of feels more like Old School mass-murderization... You can ALWAYS build a good specialist Fire Farmer and check out one of the AE fire-farming patrol maps. That may scratch the "Torch ALL THE THINGS!!!" itch. 😎

 

 

 

Edited January 17 by Coyotedancer

[Lunar Ronin]

I did not have an Enhancement Diversification complaint thread on my 2024 bingo card.  I suppose that that is on me.

[JasperStone]

3 hours ago, Judasace said:

 

I hear they're going to nerf regen again.

but it keeps Regening .... so 🤷‍♂️

[Sovera]

I'm going to be snarky and say not worth your time.

 

 

 

Now I'm going to be helpful and say the nerf was A) 20 years ago, B) at least 20 updates old (by the time the game closed so let it go let it goooooo) and C) the new systems let you be about as strong as before without making a mockery of the game.

 

I know it was fun to play with cheat modes on, but heh.

 

 

Still in helpful mode: don't slot how you were used to. The reason you were unable to defeat anything when you logged back in 20 years ago was probably because you had no accuracy. Three slots dedicated to damage, 1-2 for accuracy, 1-2 for endurance discount or recharge. Once you get into Inventions Origins (or just IOs) you can get pretty powerful. But, you know, in that game type powerful, as in, you can die, there is risk, you need to actually play the game. But that's how games are, right? Anyone plays their Skyrims and Last of Uses and WoW to ignore mobs and one shot the bosses solo? That's not a game, that's a walking simulator.

 

It's never going to be that peak gaming you described of AFKing and killing an entire zone worth of mobs while invulnerable, untouchable, and watching Netflix. And even then nowadays you can do AFK farming where you literally just start a new map every so often and mobs die to Burn.

 

Edited January 17 by Sovera

[tidge]

[CometCometh]

3 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

Eh. The game is free to play now, Comet. Why not just jump in with a new tank and give it a try? See what you think this time around?

 

If you left "back in the day" before the invention system came along, do read up on Invention sets, set bonuses and all that, though. THAT's the real ticket to making a character who feels like a proper comic book hero or villain. Inventions go a long way towards countering the "nerfed"-feeling that enhancement diversification brought on.  Dumpster Diving may be a thing of the past, but with a solid IO build you can still make a mess of a fair-sized pile of goons. 

 

Or... if you really want something that kind-of feels more like Old School mass-murderization... You can ALWAYS build a good specialist Fire Farmer and check out one of the AE fire-farming patrol maps. That may scratch the "Torch ALL THE THINGS!!!" itch. 😎

 

 

 

 

Yep. That's what I am doing. I didn't play when inventions were out. As I said, I just remember my character at one point in time being gimped when I left the game. Another poster also pointed out that there were changes. I don't know what they are and that was why I was asking. I assume since people are still enjoying the homecoming version that the balance was brought back to a more acceptable level. That was all I was hoping for. Playing a hero that can't be heroic doesn't feel very good. I was in my 20's when this game came out and now I am in my 40s. I just don't have the time to invest in a game that I still won't find as fun or satisfying. I do remember the good times of the game, but don't want to be blinded by nostalgia and rose-colored glasses. Especially since I have less free time that I did when I was in my early 20s. 

 

I will say man some of the comments to this thread make me shake my head at some of the posters. I'll just leave it at that. Your post though and a few others like it were the answers I was looking for. 

[Ghost]

You regularly herded and beat up entire maps of enemies 20 levels higher than you.

Then suddenly it would take you half the day to defeat enemies 10 levels below you.

 

Are you sure this is the game you were playing?

Edited January 18 by Ghost

[wjrasmussen]

8 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

Mega Nerfs sounds like a great name for a Kinetics/Dark Defender.

Needs that Nerf Bat

[wjrasmussen]

8 hours ago, arcane said:

It has never been in that state.

Except when you are taking a knee and a pesky oscillator does the smallest damage and kills you.  Those times are long gone though.

[wjrasmussen]

7 hours ago, Snarky said:

Every Dev staff of anything will tweak it. Some will not like the tweaks.  I still sting from the Brute nerfing

 

 

Having said that the Homecoming team seems bent on offering up enjoyment for free.  Take the recent performance upgrade to assault rifle. Always a low performance set, in my opinion it is now one of the funnest.  And indeed, with my limited amount if gaming time the only set I currently play.  
 

Make your own judgement.  But do look around deeper first

Stay Super Strong Snarky!  I feel your pain.

[cranebump]

I guess it's a hard question to answer, then, since the OP mentions "feeling heroic," which is subjective, at best. The examples given, above, indicate that "heroic"="invincible." You can certainly create a character like that, if you want to. You can also create a character who's "heroism" is pushing through the odds, suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune (and by opposing, end them [albeit bloodied, at times]). In short, you can most certainly conjure an efficient, invincible killing machine (though you're not going to be dumpster-herding entire maps anymore). If that's the type of character you want. In fact, considering the speed at which teams run through TFs these days, I'd say your specifications are likely already fulfilled. I DO agree that the only way to know is to just play the game to find out. There's a ton of guides and such out there to take you where you want to be.

Edited January 18 by cranebump

[Sovera]

39 minutes ago, cranebump said:

I guess it's a hard question to answer, then, since the OP mentions "feeling heroic," which is subjective, at best. The examples given, above, indicate that "heroic"="invincible." You can certainly create a character like that, if you want to. You can also create a character who's "heroism" is pushing through the odds, suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune (and by opposing, end them [albeit bloodied, at times]). In short, you can most certainly conjure an efficient, invincible killing machine (though you're not going to be dumpster-herding entire maps anymore). If that's the type of character you want. In fact, considering the speed at which teams run through TFs these days, I'd say your specifications are likely already fulfilled. I DO agree that the only way to know is to just play the game to find out. There's a ton of guides and such out there to take you where you want to be.

 

I'm trying not to snark because everyone likes what they like, but yeah, his only point is that once there was no longer a way to herd a whole map and defeat them in complete impunity then the game wasn't fun anymore. What am I to argue about that? I can't say you're wrong for enjoying that gameplay.

 

It sounds more like a Cookie Clicker idler where numbers go up. I can see why the devs changed it.

[cranebump]

14 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

I'm trying not to snark because everyone likes what they like, but yeah, his only point is that once there was no longer a way to herd a whole map and defeat them in complete impunity then the game wasn't fun anymore. What am I to argue about that? I can't say you're wrong for enjoying that gameplay.

 

It sounds more like a Cookie Clicker idler where numbers go up. I can see why the devs changed it.

It’s not how I’d want to play, either (I’m much more with the “it’s the journey” team [though I try not to be completely useless]).:-) As you said, though, who am I to argue? And it really does seem like getting to that level of near-to-full-invincibility is not hard to do these days. If that’s what the player wants. I mean, I’m nowhere close to being a build expert, but I have 1 pretty tough tank. Pretty sure, though, that it’s chicken scratch next to what a real pro can do.

Edited January 18 by cranebump