toxic teammate

schrodingercat · February 11

How do you handle people being toxic at you specifically as a defender?

I was on a team fighting level 54 content with people that were probably too low level to be significant dps contributors. As a result, the tauntless tank would run in with the team lead, who was a dps focused character, wipe out the minions and lts, then rush off to the next boss leaving the carnie bosses behind. The low dps members would struggle to finish the bosses, and as a result, the two teams split into the straggler group and rush group.

Now, I'm playing sonic/sonic with leadership toggles and the sorcery absorb rune, but my bubble is only so big, so I'm trying to linger with the slowpokes and keep the rushers buffed. Well, of course, as i move to refresh the rusher buffs, the lingerers had a death. I refresh the rushers, fly back to the lingerers, and then a rusher dies. I tell people to regroup, bring all the mobs together, and focus on the master illusionists as I spotted a new player trying to kill a phantasm. At this point one of the teammates, a controller, yells at me for telling him how to play because he knows how to play, and I shouldn't give advice since I let two people die.

Like i'm sonic/sonic, if you do something like run away from me and get yourself killed, that is on you. There is nothing I can do to save you from your own stupidity here, brother! The best I can do is try to shape the flow of battle so everyone benefits from tightly packed, debuffed mobs while being buff covered.

But it put a big nasty taste in my mouth for this character, even though teams have generally loved having her. One guy told me I made him actually enjoy synapse because he got to control the resistance bubble (/time secondary who lived in melee and was good at sticking with the mass of mobs).

Have yall seen an increase in nastiness in groups lately? I'm worried we are going back to the bad old days of "heals please".

Edited February 11 by schrodingercat

EnjoyTheJourney · February 11

Just one hypothesis, may not be true.

There are a lot of new players these days. They'll naturally bring ideas about MMO character roles based on their past experiences with them. Not fair or helpful, for sure, but it will sometimes happen. Also, with sonic / sonic being a fairly rarely combo it's likely even some moderately experienced players don't understand what your character brings to the table, at least not in a detailed way. For PUGs you could try stating at the beginning that the main things your character brings to the group are resistance buffs, an anti-mez bubble, and -resist debuffs for mobs. You could even make that announcement into a macro that you press once just before starting out with a new group.

Unfair comments will still probably happen. But, especially if you've already explained what your character brings you can politely point out that "reading is good, understanding even better" if others try to deflect blame for their own mistakes onto you.

Xandyr · February 11

Truth.

Some people still see Defender and automatically think "heals".

That's why on my new Sonic/Beam Rifle defender I type "Lvl 50 Sonic/Beam Def LFT. I BRING +55% RESISTANCE TO THE TEAM!" so they know what I do.

MoonSheep · February 12

let the rushers go ahead and die - nobody is forcing them to leave the group

i have powerboost, veng and tp target in my defender build. if someone wanders off to get themselves killed, it’s a happy outcome for the rest of the team

Ringo · February 12

If someone accuses a Sonic Defender of "letting teammates die" they don't know anything and are talking out of their ass.

Nightmarer · February 12

Kinda like when they blame Trick Arrow Defenders for letting teammates die, they don't understand there's no such thing as "Healing Arrow". I wouldn't allow them to bother me like that and would probably just quit team, for my own peace of mind because, if I get started, next thing is that I will get reported and banned.

HelenCarnate · February 12

16 minutes ago, Nightmarer said:

Kinda like when they blame Trick Arrow Defenders for letting teammates die, they don't understand there's no such thing as "Healing Arrow". I wouldn't allow them to bother me like that and would probably just quit team, for my own peace of mind because, if I get started, next thing is that I will get reported and banned.

I really wish there was. Does minor damage then heals it back and then some. Would be hilarious.

Psiphon · February 12

4 hours ago, Ringo said:

If someone accuses a Sonic Defender of "letting teammates die" they don't know anything and are talking out of their ass.

Harsh but true! 😄

Edited February 12 by Psiphon

Oubliette_Red · February 12

3 hours ago, HelenCarnate said:

I really wish there was. Does minor damage then heals it back and then some. Would be hilarious.

And the arrow always land in their gluteus maximus.

Oubliette_Red · February 12

9 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

let the rushers go ahead and die - nobody is forcing them to leave the group

i have powerboost, veng and tp target in my defender build. if someone wanders off to get themselves killed, it’s a happy outcome for the rest of the team

Ed zackery!

I learned back on Legacy not to split my time buffing between the team and those running off on their own. What's the point of teaming if you're going to play like you are solo'ing a mission?

Ceejer · February 13

I handle them by using the player note feature.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Playernotelocal_(Slash_Command)

I then use the star rating system to place stars that can show up above the player. 5 stars for great players, 4 for someone who builds whole leagues or is a solid player, 3 for team builders or good players, 2 for those folks who like to run off or are mean and 1 for those who are a step away from being global ignored.

Do this for sometime and you can get invited to a team and know you're on a good team by counting the stars.

You can also use this macro to quickly Translocate to a target (teammate), buff them then choose a different target (teammate) and Translocate back to the team.

/macro_image "SorceryPool_Translocation" "SPT" "powexec_location target Translocation"

schrodingercat · February 13

7 hours ago, Ceejer said:

I handle them by using the player note feature.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Playernotelocal_(Slash_Command)

I then use the star rating system to place stars that can show up above the player. 5 stars for great players, 4 for someone who builds whole leagues or is a solid player, 3 for team builders or good players, 2 for those folks who like to run off or are mean and 1 for those who are a step away from being global ignored.

Do this for sometime and you can get invited to a team and know you're on a good team by counting the stars.

You can also use this macro to quickly Translocate to a target (teammate), buff them then choose a different target (teammate) and Translocate back to the team.

/macro_image "SorceryPool_Translocation" "SPT" "powexec_location target Translocation"

I use this buf didn't know it was a slash command! I had it for people on my global friends! Going to go through my global ignore and add some notes!

As to the other replies, the rushers consisted of the tank and team lead. I've noticed a lot of teams doing this lately: run into mob, aoe down minions and lieutenants, then run off and leave the bosses. Like the bosses will stop following eventually I guess? But for at least two spawns they will just pick off your lowest health members. I don't even understand the point of this style of play tbh. Even I can kill a big pack of minions, it's not like it's super hard. And if everyone stuck behind to kill the bosses, they would die just a few seconds later and cause less stress to support!

Edited February 13 by schrodingercat

UltraAlt · February 13

On 2/11/2024 at 11:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

How do you handle people being toxic at you specifically as a defender?

If I'm the team leader, I warn them that they are on my team and, if they don't like it, they can leave. If they continue, they get the boot.

If they are the team leader, I leave the team.

If we are both team members, I might ask the team if they have an issue with my playstyle. I might think if they are just complaining or trying to give me advice. I might tell them what they can do to help me do my job better. Or I might just put them on ignore. (I know, big shocker there)

On 2/11/2024 at 11:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

At this point one of the teammates, a controller, yells at me for telling him how to play because he knows how to play, and I shouldn't give advice since I let two people die.

You didn't let anyone die. They killed themselves because they didn't know when to fallback/retreat.

There are times when I have fallen on a team, and it was the other players fault, but I can tell you, that pretty much everytime that happened was when a damage dealer or tank that I had buffed/shielded/was-healing for some whacked out reason decided all of a sudden - mid battle - that they were going to stop fighting, figure out where some temp power heal or buff was in there tray, and try to heal or buff me. I mean seriously, yes - it had happened to me more than once.. And, I will admit, that I did get a bit irate about it. I told them to stop bother trying to heal me and fight.

If they kept doing it, I would have quit the team without saying anything, but I do think that is different.

On 2/11/2024 at 11:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

I tell people to regroup, bring all the mobs together, and focus on the master illusionists

Seems logical to me, but I've played CoH for years with countless PUGs.

On 2/11/2024 at 11:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

Like i'm sonic/sonic, if you do something like run away from me and get yourself killed, that is on you.

Agreed. Unless they are playing you influence to be their pocket healer/buffer/shielder, you are playing your character for your enjoyment.

You sound like you are trying to work with the team. It seems that some of the players on the team simply didn't want teammates but minions.

(Is this where I have to admit that I have a petless demon mastermind and when a player complained about me not having any minions, I said "I don't know what you're talking about there are 7 of them on the team.")

On 2/11/2024 at 11:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

But it put a big nasty taste in my mouth for this character, even though teams have generally loved having her.

Just because of one jerk?

Was anyone else on the team complaining?

On 2/11/2024 at 11:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

One guy told me I made him actually enjoy synapse because he got to control the resistance bubble

Doesn't this at least equal out for the jerk that didn't know how to take care of themselves complaining that you aren't babysitting them enough?

On 2/11/2024 at 11:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

Have yall seen an increase in nastiness in groups lately?

It seems like your main problem to me is ....

On 2/11/2024 at 11:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

I was on a team fighting level 54 content

The end-game breeds elitists.

Make a new character and come back to play the game.

The end-game is what is tacked on because the game has been completed, and it gives people that don't want to explore the game in different ways something to do ... primarily to keep them paying for subscriptions and microtransactions - both of which aren't a thing any more.

tidge · February 13

22 hours ago, Nightmarer said:

Kinda like when they blame Trick Arrow Defenders for letting teammates die, they don't understand there's no such thing as "Healing Arrow". I wouldn't allow them to bother me like that and would probably just quit team, for my own peace of mind because, if I get started, next thing is that I will get reported and banned.

Stock up on those [Arrows of Romance] !

No one should endure side-eye from another player that is getting upset because that player doesn't understand their limits. I have a couple of "support" characters that are perfectly fine running off by themselves when necessary; often I just go with "The needs of the many..." and stick close to those who benefit most.

On 2/11/2024 at 11:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

How do you handle people being toxic at you specifically as a defender?

I was on a team fighting level 54 content with people that were probably too low level to be significant dps contributors. As a result, the tauntless tank would run in with the team lead, who was a dps focused character, wipe out the minions and lts, then rush off to the next boss leaving the carnie bosses behind. The low dps members would struggle to finish the bosses, and as a result, the two teams split into the straggler group and rush group.

Oh... I've got some taunts for that player.

With the influx of new players, I suspect we are going to go through another phase of "My Tank doesn't need Taunt" (pick a reason why: "I make attacks" and "I have an Aura" and "I have Fold Space" are common rationales. It took a while, and some changes to Tankers, but I think the critical consensus among veteran Homecoming players is finally "Tankers need a Taunt". If someone wants to play a Tank without Taunt, they should probably just roll up a Scrapper and no one need be the wiser.

Don't be discouraged, and play the way that drives your satisfaction.

tidge · February 13

2 hours ago, schrodingercat said:

As to the other replies, the rushers consisted of the tank and team lead. I've noticed a lot of teams doing this lately: run into mob, aoe down minions and lieutenants, then run off and leave the bosses. Like the bosses will stop following eventually I guess? But for at least two spawns they will just pick off your lowest health members. I don't even understand the point of this style of play tbh.

I want to explain why this might be happening. Tankers generally take many more attacks to finish off bosses than other AT, even while they are holding the aggro of the boss. AoE attacks are generally not good against bosses... so a Tanker might be trying to cluster another group while dragging the bosses along. All of this would be in the service of "fewer attacks to defeat more mobiles" which is good for the team.

A good tanker is usually paying attention to the team's cycle of attacks, controls, and aggro situation. Fore example: A boss that is locked down by controls probably doesn't need the tank paying attention to it.

schrodingercat · February 13

1 hour ago, tidge said:

I want to explain why this might be happening. Tankers generally take many more attacks to finish off bosses than other AT, even while they are holding the aggro of the boss. AoE attacks are generally not good against bosses... so a Tanker might be trying to cluster another group while dragging the bosses along. All of this would be in the service of "fewer attacks to defeat more mobiles" which is good for the team.

A good tanker is usually paying attention to the team's cycle of attacks, controls, and aggro situation. Fore example: A boss that is locked down by controls probably doesn't need the tank paying attention to it.

ah! see, i normally tank. I love tanking! So when I go from group to group, I usually taunt the bosses that arent locked down as I move to keep them flowing with me to the next fight. Sometimes i will fold space stragglers in to me so everyone can enjoy the aoe blasty goodness of a nice packed spawn. This team wasnt doing that. they just had 2 people running in (tank and team lead), aoeing down everything to half, then running on to the next group. The rest of the team was left to fight the stragglers, which they werent equipped to do damage wise.

Anyway, it was just one toxic jerk. I ignored him and learned how to put stars on his name so I don't have to deal with him again!

Duckbutler · February 13

There's a lot going on here.

This is what gets me. Isn't there an aggro cap of like 16 targets attacking a single player? And like, on an 8 player team spawns tend to be more than 8 mobs so there will definitely be mobs running around loose if you try to pull more than 1 pack at a time without killing at least some of it? It's fine if you have maybe a tank and a brute or if you have a tank and control powers in the group. But then you leave unenhanced lowbies alone attacking boss mobs that are +5 to them and they're doing like 10% of their damage potential. It's not great.

schrodingercat · February 14

Thats pretty much what happened in a nutshell and a trend I've observed on higher level teams in general. It's frustrating because it seems inefficient and unnecessarily stressful!

RiverTam · February 27

On 2/11/2024 at 4:48 PM, schrodingercat said:

How do you handle people being toxic at you specifically as a defender?

I was on a team fighting level 54 content with people that were probably too low level to be significant dps contributors. As a result, the tauntless tank would run in with the team lead, who was a dps focused character, wipe out the minions and lts, then rush off to the next boss leaving the carnie bosses behind. The low dps members would struggle to finish the bosses, and as a result, the two teams split into the straggler group and rush group.

Now, I'm playing sonic/sonic with leadership toggles and the sorcery absorb rune, but my bubble is only so big, so I'm trying to linger with the slowpokes and keep the rushers buffed. Well, of course, as i move to refresh the rusher buffs, the lingerers had a death. I refresh the rushers, fly back to the lingerers, and then a rusher dies. I tell people to regroup, bring all the mobs together, and focus on the master illusionists as I spotted a new player trying to kill a phantasm. At this point one of the teammates, a controller, yells at me for telling him how to play because he knows how to play, and I shouldn't give advice since I let two people die.

Like i'm sonic/sonic, if you do something like run away from me and get yourself killed, that is on you. There is nothing I can do to save you from your own stupidity here, brother! The best I can do is try to shape the flow of battle so everyone benefits from tightly packed, debuffed mobs while being buff covered.

But it put a big nasty taste in my mouth for this character, even though teams have generally loved having her. One guy told me I made him actually enjoy synapse because he got to control the resistance bubble (/time secondary who lived in melee and was good at sticking with the mass of mobs).

Have yall seen an increase in nastiness in groups lately? I'm worried we are going back to the bad old days of "heals please".

As someone who plays Defenders and Corrupters which do not heal, I feel for you as I have been there before. 😢

I normally put something sarcastic in my bio which states "I do not heal, so go heal yourself". If I get hassle, I kindly remind them to read my bio and I tend to give them a one star and never team with them again.

Also, when I do play as a healer, I will not run after someone who needs healing. If they die, then that's their fault and not mine. My job is not to chase your ass all over the map just to heal you.

I also tend to take TP just in case I need to heal someone, as I will TP them to me. If they get annoyed, then they need to be prepared to die a lot more, as I won't heal their ass in future.

PeregrineFalcon · February 27

On 2/11/2024 at 7:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

How do you handle people being toxic at you specifically as a defender?

One of my favorite characters is a FF/Beam Rifle Defender. I PuG with this character all the time. I deal with it by simply saying in team chat: "I'm FF. FF doesn't have a heal. I give out Force Field bubbles. I don't heal."

If they persist I 1-star them and either kick them, if I'm the leader, or I leave the team.

Bastille Boy · February 28

I got in trouble with a team once when I was playing a Nature defender whose debuffs drew aggro. I was trying to shuttle between two separated groups of players who seemed to need healing. I caused problems by bringing enemies with me.

If a team isn't staying together, for whatever reasons (good or bad), sometimes it's best to pick one group and stay with them. The people who go off in another direction can't blame you for not healing/buffing them if they choose to run off.

Zect · March 5

The AT is called defender not butler or nanny. That’s all that really needs to be said to them.

Clave Dark 5 · March 5

On 2/11/2024 at 9:48 AM, schrodingercat said:

How do you handle people being toxic at you ~~specifically as a defender~~?

For any of that gate keeping nonsense: distance, one-star note them, block them. Life is so much better!

Meknomancer · March 5

On 2/11/2024 at 4:48 PM, schrodingercat said:

How do you handle people being toxic at you specifically as a defender?

I was on a team fighting level 54 content with people that were probably too low level to be significant dps contributors. As a result, the tauntless tank would run in with the team lead, who was a dps focused character, wipe out the minions and lts, then rush off to the next boss leaving the carnie bosses behind. The low dps members would struggle to finish the bosses, and as a result, the two teams split into the straggler group and rush group.

Now, I'm playing sonic/sonic with leadership toggles and the sorcery absorb rune, but my bubble is only so big, so I'm trying to linger with the slowpokes and keep the rushers buffed. Well, of course, as i move to refresh the rusher buffs, the lingerers had a death. I refresh the rushers, fly back to the lingerers, and then a rusher dies. I tell people to regroup, bring all the mobs together, and focus on the master illusionists as I spotted a new player trying to kill a phantasm. At this point one of the teammates, a controller, yells at me for telling him how to play because he knows how to play, and I shouldn't give advice since I let two people die.

Like i'm sonic/sonic, if you do something like run away from me and get yourself killed, that is on you. There is nothing I can do to save you from your own stupidity here, brother! The best I can do is try to shape the flow of battle so everyone benefits from tightly packed, debuffed mobs while being buff covered.

But it put a big nasty taste in my mouth for this character, even though teams have generally loved having her. One guy told me I made him actually enjoy synapse because he got to control the resistance bubble (/time secondary who lived in melee and was good at sticking with the mass of mobs).

Have yall seen an increase in nastiness in groups lately? I'm worried we are going back to the bad old days of "heals please".

Simplest thing to do (because this happens a lot) is stay with the team mates that need you the most. The tank and aoe merchants rushing ahead and firing off aoe's into a mob then leaving half of it (the half that takes too long for them to kill, usually all the bosses and eb's) will get further and further ahead. Do not buff them when they are out of range-definitely do not follow them to buff them. You'll just get annoyed and frustrated hopping backwards and forwards and watching the players who need the most help faceplanting. Either the rushers buffs will drop off and they'll realise when they start taking damage or die or they'll finish the mission.

Carnies, MI bosses can be a phase shifting pain forcing you to hang about and wait before you can dps them, impatient players won't wait and just think 'someone else will pick them off'

There's a lot of old returning players and a lot of new players and your mixing that with players who've been steamrolling the game for years/decades. Your going to get speedrunners who can finish a map in 2 minutes with other players on their first time seeing the content with unfinished/underlevelled builds who would take 30 minutes to do the same thing. You'll quickly learn to recognise who's who. I'm not seeing any difference between HC now and OG on live, its just different players with different playstyles, in the same way you get a different 'feel' for the game depending on what server you play on. The difference between old Virtue and Freedom, the difference between Everlasting and Excelsior.

Players don't change.

Voodooray007 · March 5

On 2/12/2024 at 6:16 AM, Ringo said:

If someone accuses a Sonic Defender of "letting teammates die" they don't know anything and are talking out of their ass.

IT NEEDS TO BE SAID! 😏

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