Instance Mother Ship Raid

[Anyad]

So I noticed today in the LFG tab that the Assault on the Mother Ship  instance requirements have changed. 
I have been running the Instance version of the MSR every Friday Evening for over 3 years on TORCH. 
I started running it originally for something new plus I did not want to interfere with the task forces in the RWZ. After running it a few times people got used to it and preferred the change. They enjoyed the balanced merit distribution, they also enjoyed that all mobs were level 54. And thirdly they enjoyed their fellow league mate actually being required to have more than the basic unslotted powers that a lvl 1 character has. Now I understand that these changes are to help with the lag and I do agree, it definitely does(reason number 4 people like it on Torch).
I just wanted to let the powers that be know the current Instance Raid is being used quite religiously. And hope instead of blowing it up to just add a second MSR option for the 1-50 and leave the current one as it is. 

 

Now let the Elitist comment begin. 🙄

[Clave Dark 5]

I'm... not sure what you're saying here exactly, does that make me elitist?

 

But this does raise a question I've been wondering: I don't think I've seen or been on an instanced MSR since I left Indom, and there weren't many there either back like 2 years ago.  Seriously, none, not on Excel when I play anyway.  How many people actually do them (OP aside, obvs. =)?

[Ghost]

5 hours ago, Anyad said:

And thirdly they enjoyed their fellow league mate actually being required to have more than the basic unslotted powers that a lvl 1 character has.

 

Now let the Elitist comment begin. 🙄

[Ukase]

So, I confess, I never actually looked at the requirements, so I don't know what they were before this referenced change. Given that we can't earn a vanguard merit before level 35 (because that's when Levantera is unlocked as a contact), I'm not sure I agree with any msr being open to a level 1. 

I understand having a new character and wanting those nifty quick easy levels. But, the MSR isn't the place to do that - at least, I don't think so. If you're hanging out with in-game friends and want to do that kind of thing, in my mind, the instanced MSR is for you - but just for you and your friends, not a typical recruited league. At least, that's the way I see it. 

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say we can tell the difference between an MSR with mostly folks over level 35, compared to one with a couple dozen folks under level 15. A lot more use of vengeance, for sure. But, the practice some folks have of taking a lower level character to an msr isn't really that different from the leagues that form for a Rikti or Nemesis invasion in a lower level zone. So, in a sense, I am of two minds about this. 

If our current HC leadership is okay with level 1's being able to msr, then perhaps they should allow them to earn vanguard merits as well. I think, however, it's a case of them recognizing that there are scenarios where an SG is playing together and attend an msr, and having one of your sg folks told they need to find something else to do for 30-40 minutes..I don't think that's what the game is about, and that's why it's open to level 1's. And because of that, folks outside of a scenario like that are going to take advantage. 

Ultimately, there are a lot of things that can irk me on some days, and on other days they don't bug me much at all. For me, this is one of those things. 

[ZekeStenzland]

Looks like the instanced mother ship raid used to be 35-50 only, and is now 1-50, just like the zone event.

 

I assume, like any other (team or league) leader that puts a group together, you're well within your rights to limit who is allowed in the group and who isn't. You're free to limit it to only peacebringers and masterminds, only T4'd level 50s, only villains, or whatever. And the game still allows you to do this. 

 

I'm not sure what the problem is. Is it just that you don't want L1-34 people in the raid, but don't want to take responsibility for your choices? Too much of a hassle to check people's level before inviting them?

 

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, ZekeStenzland said:

Too much of a hassle to check people's level before inviting them?

 

It IS a hassle, as the folks often ask for invites from other zones. You'd have to /search and type the name in for each character to assess if they meet the level requirement. So, in theory, it sounds reasonable, but in practice, it's pretty annoying. 

[Oubliette_Red]

36 minutes ago, Ukase said:

It IS a hassle, as the folks often ask for invites from other zones. You'd have to /search and type the name in for each character to assess if they meet the level requirement. So, in theory, it sounds reasonable, but in practice, it's pretty annoying. 

 

Yeah, sounds annoying especially on a full league. What'd be handy is if the league organizer could set level requirements with a slider for whatever Raid/Trial they are running, rather than the current free for all the LFG tool is at the moment.

 

[Oklahoman]

7 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

But this does raise a question I've been wondering: I don't think I've seen or been on an instanced MSR since I left Indom, and there weren't many there either back like 2 years ago.  Seriously, none, not on Excel when I play anyway.  How many people actually do them (OP aside, obvs. =)?

 

I used to run MSRs pretty regularly, and I attempted to do the occasional instanced one, as well, because there were requests for it. I stopped because they weren't nearly as popular as the zoned ones (longer recruiting time), and all too often when you'd go to start you'd get an error message that someone doesn't have the Member of Vanguard badge. So, everyone was way-past-ready to go, but now you have to stop and deal with this. It was too much of a hassle for me. I'm not sure why others aren't running instanced.

 

[SeraphimKensai]

I honestly avoid a lot of MSR's simply because I don't want to be carrying lvl 1's. I don't PL other people's toons these days in the AE so I don't need to do it in RWZ either.

 

I'd honestly be in favor of the zone having a lvl 35 requirement like cimerora.

[eiynp]

Idg why people are so concerned with gatekeeping the most casual possible content

Edited March 11 by eiynp

[Oklahoman]

57 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I honestly avoid a lot of MSR's simply because I don't want to be carrying lvl 1's. I don't PL other people's toons these days in the AE so I don't need to do it in RWZ either.

 

I'd honestly be in favor of the zone having a lvl 35 requirement like cimerora.

 

I get it. I do farm from time to time (more as a mindless activity when I need it), but I rarely invite others.

 

I feel like an MSR is a horrible thing to do for rewards, anyway. There are a lot of easier ways to earn more rewards in less time. So, for me, the main thing an MSR has to offer is XP, which is directly appealing to lower level characters. I figure these people would be sitting in AE doing nothing anyway, so it's better (in my mind) if they come do nothing in an MSR and maybe take part in the community banter that flies around there. I haven't run an MSR in a while, but when I did it never stressed me to have Level 1's in the group. We were almost certainly not going to fail, and the only variable was the amount of vMerits we would get. If I can do that and, along the way, a new person becomes more engaged with the game and the community, I figure that's a win.

 

But I also don't oppose RWZ having a level 35 requirement to enter, along with the instanced MSR. But then I would want to see a lower level equivalent for the reasons I mentioned above.

[Ukase]

38 minutes ago, eiynp said:

Idg why people are so concerned with gatekeeping the most casual possible content

The "why" is fairly easy to grasp. When you're not level 50, but over 35, you kind of rely on some of the stronger buffs. If the league has more sub level 35's than usual, you end up with a lot of "wipes". 

I've been a part of some of these leagues. No clarions, no other kind of status protection buffs. Yeah, I brought some break-frees, but those get used up in the first few moments of the raid. The result is a cascade of defeats, upon which, half of the league is actually at the Vanguard base trying to get back to the bowl. 

Not only is that not much fun, but the resulting total of Vanguard Merits ends up being about 700 or so, instead of the more expected 12-1400. And it's largely because a number of folks wanted to level up their very low level characters. On the one hand, I get it. Who doesn't want to see the XP swirling around faster than an empath can fill your health bar? 

As casual as the MSR is, it works because of the constant heals, buffs and debuffs (and of course, the constant taunting and leading the Rikti to the bowl)
When about 12-18 of these players are not only under level 35, but under level 20, they don't have the slots to do much, nor enough powers to do much. They are being carried. And it would be fine if the rewards were the same, but they are most definitely not. At least, that hasn't been my experience. 

Again, I get the appeal. But I also remember this past Halloween in the PI motel court, towards the later part of the event. Folks were literally creating alts to collect the prismatics. The league that started with all 50's at the beginning of the Halloween event, after the first couple of weeks had more than half the team under level 20. The result was slower kills, a lot more defeats and a fair amount of resentment from the level 50s towards the folks that brought their level 1's out for the prismatics. 

It can work if it's mostly appropriate level players. But when a level 50 player opts to leave, you might have a level 11 getting the team lead, exemplaring the higher level players and they suffer practically instant defeat. This happens in MSRs, too, but far less frequently, as it's a fixed duration, and mapserves/disconnects are far less frequent than they used to be. 

[Mister Mass]

16 hours ago, Anyad said:

So I noticed today in the LFG tab that the Assault on the Mother Ship  instance requirements have changed. 
[snip]
I just wanted to let the powers that be know the current Instance Raid is being used quite religiously. And hope instead of blowing it up to just add a second MSR option for the 1-50 and leave the current one as it is. 

As someone who appreciates what @Anyad does on Torchbearer every Friday, I agree with the proposal.  Removing the original (level-restricted) iMSR to replace it with one with no level requirement is taking away something that the present playerbase uses.  Allow both side-by-side & let the players choose.  Options are good.

Edited March 11 by Mister Mass

[RCU7115]

10 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I'm... not sure what you're saying here exactly, does that make me elitist?

 

But this does raise a question I've been wondering: I don't think I've seen or been on an instanced MSR since I left Indom, and there weren't many there either back like 2 years ago.  Seriously, none, not on Excel when I play anyway.  How many people actually do them (OP aside, obvs. =)?

I saw 3 different MSR yesterday on Exel. One in the morning , afternoon and evening.

[Oklahoman]

1 hour ago, RCU7115 said:

I saw 3 different MSR yesterday on Exel. One in the morning , afternoon and evening.

 

OP is referring to INSTANCED MSRs, not zoned ones.

[Clave Dark 5]

9 hours ago, RCU7115 said:

I saw 3 different MSR yesterday on Exel. One in the morning , afternoon and evening.

Yeah, instanced.  I've done any number of MSRs and, unfortunately, missed any number as well due to my play time schedule.  I know we still run them.

[MoonSheep]

21 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I honestly avoid a lot of MSR's simply because I don't want to be carrying lvl 1's. I don't PL other people's toons these days in the AE so I don't need to do it in RWZ either.

 

I'd honestly be in favor of the zone having a lvl 35 requirement like cimerora.

 

it’s also incredibly boring in my opinion - it’s the pinnacle of uninspiring button mashing

[Ironblade]

On 3/11/2024 at 11:08 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

I'd honestly be in favor of the zone having a lvl 35 requirement like cimerora.

 

Actually, I remember that being changed and I just took a level 10 character into Cimerora to be sure.

[Clave Dark 5]

11 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

it’s also incredibly boring in my opinion - it’s the pinnacle of uninspiring button mashing

Nah, that's farming: you set up cardboard figures on a space map to walk around and then fall over with how awesome you are when they see you, with zero chances of being touched.  MSR is a mad dash around a (well vaguely) dangerous map with a whole group of your friends and acquaintances, play a game of NO ME trying to set the bombs, then spend a bit of time trying to help drag targets into the bowl, healing your teammates for badges, directing pets, rezzing and teleporting defeated players (people can and do die on an MSR).  And then you get to gather up to go blow up a circling space ship!

 

Seriously though, there's something that's just great to me in being in a full league of folks who're all roughly focused on doing one task.

[Turric]

On 3/11/2024 at 2:58 AM, Clave Dark 5 said:

But this does raise a question I've been wondering: I don't think I've seen or been on an instanced MSR since I left Indom, and there weren't many there either back like 2 years ago.  Seriously, none, not on Excel when I play anyway.  How many people actually do them (OP aside, obvs. =)?

 

I used to really like the instanced rikti raids on Indom led by Mrs. back 1 to 2 years ago. Those were fun. Like 2 groups total of people, sometimes 20 people if we were lucky, especially at the end, before I transferred. I am not sure what happened why he / she stopped running them. There was something that happened there and I do not know what it was, but after Indom became even more of a ghost town. And that is when I began transferring all my toons to Excel...

 

As for Excel, there was an instanced one run today (3/12/24) by Goddess Laucianna (sp?) during the standard 3pm EST raid. I always have a 50 in a raid (I have not leveled a toon in several years now) and so it seemed the same to me. Vet xp was good, merits were good, but not much different than normal. I have no real opinion on either, unfortunately.

 

I only have 8 more rikti raids left to run EVER! And then all my 47 of my toons have the full badges for the master-at-arms and the bombs.

[SupaFreak]

As a somewhat regular on Anyad's iMSRs, I gotta agree that the initial implementation of 35+ and Member of Vanguard was an overall better experience than what I experienced tonight on the new format.

 

I'd personally prefer there be a "normal" and "advanced" versions of the instanced MSR - with the advanced being what it once was.  My 3 cents... because I found an extra one on the way to this reply.

 

PEACE! 

 

 

Edited March 14 by SupaFreak

[Jiro Ito]

On 3/10/2024 at 9:33 PM, Anyad said:

 And hope instead of blowing it up to just add a second MSR option for the 1-50 and leave the current one as it is. 

This seems like a good compromise

 

On 3/11/2024 at 7:13 AM, Oubliette_Red said:

 

What'd be handy is if the league organizer could set level requirements with a slider for whatever Raid/Trial they are running, rather than the current free for all the LFG tool is at the moment.

 

And so does this

 

On 3/11/2024 at 6:28 AM, Ukase said:

It IS a hassle, as the folks often ask for invites from other zones. You'd have to /search and type the name in for each character to assess if they meet the level requirement. So, in theory, it sounds reasonable, but in practice, it's pretty annoying. 

Because this is true.  

 

I'm not sure why it was changed in the first place, because obviously characters below 35 aren't going to contribute anything vs level 54 content beyond getting powerleveled.  As said above, I too find the Halloween motel to be just as annoying for this same reason; what was fun content being done by a league was turned into an involuntary farm session.  Anyad has been graciously running this iMSRs on Torch for years now and all I don't think it's too much to ask for participation instead of leeching.  There are plenty of other farming options.

[Logansan]

Keep in mind that the Instance Mother Ship Raid was always designed for level 35+ players (as far as I'm aware). 

 

I really can't see any reason why it was changed, it's not as if getting to level 1 to level 35 is a major grind these days and there are other options to speed that process up. I'm normally against raid leaders been about to set gatekeeping options in games as that often lead to elitists attitudes,  but in this case it makes perfect sense to change it back to how it was.

[srmalloy]

On 3/11/2024 at 4:03 AM, Ukase said:

So, I confess, I never actually looked at the requirements, so I don't know what they were before this referenced change. Given that we can't earn a vanguard merit before level 35 (because that's when Levantera is unlocked as a contact), I'm not sure I agree with any msr being open to a level 1. 

You earn 10 Vmerits for an MSR regardless of whether you have the Member of Vanguard badge or not, but if you don't have the badge, that's all you get.

[gameboy1234]

On 3/11/2024 at 6:28 AM, Ukase said:

It IS a hassle, as the folks often ask for invites from other zones. You'd have to /search and type the name in for each character to assess if they meet the level requirement. So, in theory, it sounds reasonable, but in practice, it's pretty annoying. 

 

If the LFG queue worked a little better, it could filter people who don't qualify out and it wouldn't be a manual check.  Not 100% sure how this would work though.  You as the queue starter have the option to see how many people are queued for that specific event, so you know if you want to queue early rather than wait for a 100% full league?  Something like that, it would require a bit of thought and work to be exactly right.

 

I'm thinking mostly on HC that there's a really low limit on the number of people in the RWZ, which can make it tough to actually form the league.  A properly working LFG queue that could instance a new zone just for the league if required would remove that issue.  OTOH I don't have a thing against people level 1 showing up for a MSR, it's usually no impact at all.