Infiltration... what the absolute frack is it?

[Uun]

You don't need to slot a Celerity/Unbounded Leap +stealth IO in Sprint. You can slot it directly in Infiltration. You now have complete invisibility (slightly superior to Stealth) with one power. There's no need to take Stealth if you're taking Infiltration. It's also quite viable as a travel power with one additional slot. I have at least 3 characters with no other travel power.

[Luminara]

39 minutes ago, Uun said:

I have at least 3 characters with no other travel power.

 

I think I only have 3 without Infiltration.

[Ghost]

I’m with you Snarkalopolous

I don’t understand the necessity of it, and have it on none of my toons

[tidge]

I rather like Infiltration, and use it as a travel power. Typically my Blasters end up taking 4+1 pool choices for power variety... I find the Concealment pool to be a good choice for end-build power choices for muling Defensive enhancements, so taking Infiltration early gets me a zippy, useful, travel power (that can be slotted with travel sets) that can also hold a Defensive enhancement (e.g. Kistmet, Shield Wall, Reactive Defenses) at early levels to give a character a little more oomph in lower-level content. I find that when Infiltration is slotted with a single Endurance/Travel piece I may not be the first player on a group to get to the cross-zone mission door, but I am usually in the first half of players to get to the door.

 

I can understand other players feeling like all the other travel options/pools offer more of what those players find useful... I have plenty of characters that take more obviously recognizable "travel powers"... but I don't think Infiltration deserves any trash talk. For me, the "concealment" aspect of the power is not even one of the top three reasons why I take Infiltration.

 

 

[Riverdusk]

53 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I’m with you Snarkalopolous

I don’t understand the necessity of it, and have it on none of my toons

 

Well, technically no travel power is a "necessity" in this game, but at least infiltration also gives you both stealth and a LoTG spot.   That can't be said for fly, or super jump, or even super speed (that ones gives stealth at least, but still no LoTG spot, I also find super speed beyond annoying to use, but that might just be me).

 

[Ukase]

7 hours ago, Snarky said:

what kind of sets are good for brawl?

So, in all seriousness - brawl is great, right out of the gate - unslotted. You'd never think a character can get Cataclysmic badge from brawl, but that is how it is done the fastest. (arguably)
Now, when I say in all seriousness, I'm being serious. But I'm not being entirely transparent. I use it in Mender Remiel's first mission to smack AVs until they're at 70-75% health, then switch to a different AV, and hopefully, the first one will have regen'd enough for me to continue. 

Certain farm builds will use brawl (and boxing) as set mules for faster recharge. Who'd of thunk you'd see a set of Absolute Amazement in brawl? Not me. But I have seen it. 

As for infiltration, I think the folks that take it are likely the same folks that are perfectly fine with ninja run or a jet pack as their travel power. And if it works for them, great. 

[Erratic1]

Sometimes the usual choices for travel powers do not fit the character concept. I've got a WM/Ninjitsu, magic origin scrapper and Infiltration fits perfectly. Works nicely too.

[BZRKR]

The purple buttons of the concealment pool just go better with some other powerset buttons to make a pleasing UI 🙂

[Riverdusk]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

As for infiltration, I think the folks that take it are likely the same folks that are perfectly fine with ninja run or a jet pack as their travel power. And if it works for them, great. 

 

Using only prestige/temps does work if necessary, but infiltration at its base a bit faster and jumps higher than ninja/athletic run and with even some minimal slotting can be quite a bit better.  You can't slot ninja run.  The powers end up feeling noticeably different to me.  The difference between a slotted infiltration and ninja run I'd say is more like the difference between a slotted fly and using a jet pack.  A jet pack will still get you there and gets the job done, but noticeably slower than fly.  Ninja run vs infiltration is the same.

[Jacke]

11 hours ago, tidge said:

I rather like Infiltration, and use it as a travel power. Typically my Blasters end up taking 4+1 pool choices for power variety... I find the Concealment pool to be a good choice for end-build power choices for muling Defensive enhancements, so taking Infiltration early gets me a zippy, useful, travel power (that can be slotted with travel sets) that can also hold a Defensive enhancement (e.g. Kistmet, Shield Wall, Reactive Defenses) at early levels to give a character a little more oomph in lower-level content. I find that when Infiltration is slotted with a single Endurance/Travel piece I may not be the first player on a group to get to the cross-zone mission door, but I am usually in the first half of players to get to the door.

 

I can understand other players feeling like all the other travel options/pools offer more of what those players find useful... I have plenty of characters that take more obviously recognizable "travel powers"... but I don't think Infiltration deserves any trash talk. For me, the "concealment" aspect of the power is not even one of the top three reasons why I take Infiltration.

 

I normally prefer to use Concealment's Stealth Power, as its Boss-Level stealth all by itself and it keeps some Def even in combat.  While Infiltration loses all its Def in combat; I really wish it kept some Def.  But I still use Infiltration on some Toons, who drop it completely when fighting, either ranged or melee.

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 5/26/2024 at 10:30 AM, Riverdusk said:

Infiltration+ a steatlh IO in sprint gives you what potentially could take you three power choices all in one.  Your invis power, your travel power, and a LoTG spot.  So, on characters that are tight on power choices it is a clear winner to me.  Stealth is actually the power I end up rarely seeing the point of taking once you have infiltration.

 

I think a lot of the issue is that some people just don't see it as a "real" travel power.  But with some slotting (and random +move IO set bonuses most end up getting) you can easily end up with 80+mph running/jumping speed with it, and  to me, that is plenty fast.  The jump height is also enough to easily get around almost anywhere.  I typically three slot infiltration with 2 winters gift set (20% slow resistance and a run/jump speed) and a LoTG.  

 

If you are a must on always being able to fly, than yes I can see where you don't see the use of it.  I'm definitely not one of those.  If you have stealth in your primary/secondary also less needed.

 

I also tend to just find infiltration a fun travel power to use, so that also helps.

 

 

 

 

This is really useful. I'd not considered it to be that good... but I do like using Stealth as a kind of Defproc mule too.

 

I shall have to give it some thought.

 

 

[BazookaTwo]

On 5/26/2024 at 11:46 AM, Luminara said:

 

Doesn't stack with Athletic Run.

 

What do you mean doesn't stack?

 

On my Ninja Sent I use Ninja Run, Sprint, and Infiltration for my travel. That plus the Ninja Speed Boost clicky and they all seem to work well in conjunction. Add the ninja stealth/first strike power and Celerity proc together, everything combines seamlessly. 

 

And rikti drones can't see me. 

[Eiko-chan]

12 minutes ago, BazookaTwo said:

What do you mean doesn't stack?

Running Ninja Run along with Infiltration only costs you more endurance; it doesn't make you run any faster or jump any higher.

[Ukase]

On 5/26/2024 at 6:51 PM, Riverdusk said:

 

Using only prestige/temps does work if necessary, but infiltration at its base a bit faster and jumps higher than ninja/athletic run and with even some minimal slotting can be quite a bit better.  You can't slot ninja run.  The powers end up feeling noticeably different to me.  The difference between a slotted infiltration and ninja run I'd say is more like the difference between a slotted fly and using a jet pack.  A jet pack will still get you there and gets the job done, but noticeably slower than fly.  Ninja run vs infiltration is the same.

I think on the plus side for infiltration, you can at least slot for end reduction. I know when I'd be getting to level 7 or 8, leaving ninja run on, I'd be running out of endurance if I got into a scrape with some hellions and forgot to turn it off. 

[biostem]

On 5/26/2024 at 7:51 PM, Riverdusk said:

Using only prestige/temps does work if necessary, but infiltration at its base a bit faster and jumps higher than ninja/athletic run and with even some minimal slotting can be quite a bit better.  You can't slot ninja run.  The powers end up feeling noticeably different to me.  The difference between a slotted infiltration and ninja run I'd say is more like the difference between a slotted fly and using a jet pack.  A jet pack will still get you there and gets the job done, but noticeably slower than fly.  Ninja run vs infiltration is the same.

For me, to invest those extra slots into infiltration, just to bring it up to par, is not worthwhile.  I'd much rather take stealth then simply use fly along with it.  Each to their own, of course, but something like ninja run + jump pack, (both being free), then taking *something else* in place of infiltration, is the best route to take, at least IMO.

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, BazookaTwo said:

What do you mean doesn't stack?

 

The RunSpeed buffs from Ninja Run and Infiltration don't stack; only the largest effect will be present.  But the Endurance Costs of all the Toggle Powers running does add up.  You have to be careful that all the Toggles you are running are truly worth running together.

 

The change to Travel Power Stacking happened in Issue 27 Page 2 on 2021 Apr 20:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/28070-patch-notes-for-april-20th-2021-issue-27-page-2/

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/27807-travel-power-updates-in-issue-27-page-2/

Quote

Travel Power Updates

This update brings a wide range of buffs for travel pools, a brand new travel power (as part of an update to the Concealment pool), and some mechanical improvements to how travel powers work. Check out this thread for a detailed breakdown of these changes and our goals for this update.

 

Travel Power Stacking

• Almost all travel powers are no longer mutually exclusive and can be activated at the same time, but only the strongest buff of each type (run speed, jump speed, jump height, fly speed, air control) will apply
  • This ensures that every power you pick or activate will only ever improve your mobility
• Some exceptions:
  • Click buffs (eg: Inertial Reduction), external buffs (eg: Speed Boost), and auto powers (eg: Swift) still stack as they did before
  • Prestige Run powers (Ninja Run, Beast Run, Athletic Run) are still mutually exclusive with each other
  • Temporary jetpacks are still mutually exclusive with each other
  • Sprint powers still stack with other run speed buffs and are still mutually exclusive with each other
  • Some Peacebringer flight powers and effects are mutually exclusive with their vanilla counterparts

Level Scaling

• Travel powers no longer increase in strength as you level up, the previous level 50 values now apply at all levels
• Travel speed caps no longer increase in strength as you level up, the previous level 50 values now apply at all levels

 

[Shred Monkey]

Before the concealment pool update, there were 3 powers that took LoTG sets, one of which was useful (Stealth), the other 2 were mules (grant invis and improved invis).   At that time, most of my builds were tight enough that I generally used Ninja Run and skipped travel powers.

 

With the change to remove improved invisibility and add Infiltration the needed to keep 3 powers that took LoTGs.  Furthermore they made one more power useful.  I can now drop Ninja Run and use Infiltration as my travel power.  This is much better because, unlike Ninja Run, Infiltration can be slotted with enhancements to improve my run/jump speed and endurance use in the event I want to keep it on in combat.  

 

Also, for the record, being hidden is pretty useless in today's game.  Yes you can stealth missions.  But no, there's no real benefit in being able to stealth missions.

Edited May 28 by Shred Monkey

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

Also, for the record, being hidden is pretty useless in today's game.  Yes you can stealth missions.  But no, there's no real benefit in being able to stealth missions.

 

I agree with the above more than I disagree, however I don't think 'stealthing missions' is completely useless. It is true that I usually don't care if enemies see me or not, but I can think of lots of times when I've just wanted to get to a part of a map unmolested.

[Frozen Burn]

Quite simply....

• Infiltration = a travel power that is like Athletic/Ninja Run that provides some stealth.  You will need a Celerity +Stealth IO (or similar) or Steamy Mist (or similar) to get full invisibility.  Given this is a Travel power, the end consumption is higher.
• Stealth = a power that makes you invisible (I hate that they kept the name "Stealth" and not "Invisibility") - take this if you have other travel powers.  End consumption is less and you do not need the +Stealth IOs or stealth auras - although they do stack and are nice to have anyway.

 

3 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

Also, for the record, being hidden is pretty useless in today's game.  Yes you can stealth missions.  But no, there's no real benefit in being able to stealth missions.

 

Yes, there is, if you're squishie and can't take the barrage of aggro you get from running through mobs - or being able to defeat the group guarding the glowie if they get aggro'd - many times you can click it while staying hidden around a corner, but can't if you've aggro'd them trying to get there. 

 

I've seen it SO many times, an unstealthed melee type will just run through to the end to click the glowie, but they drag 5 groups to it and no one can click it due to the AOEs, over aggro, or etc.  All it would've taken is one invisible person to do the job, quickly, quietly, and efficiently.  

 

Or, that melee type wants to Assemble the Team in the final room, but can't because they have aggro - it's even worse if they die (seen that many times too).  A stealther could handle it more easily and safely.  

 

...So yes, there is benefit.

[lemming]

2 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

Or, that melee type wants to Assemble the Team in the final room, but can't because they have aggro - it's even worse if they die (seen that many times too).  A stealther could handle it more easily and safely. 

I remember stealthing to the end (as the plan) and started ATT when the tank ran up to me with all the agro on them.   After the smoke from all the AOE's cleared, both of us were face planted.   <This snarky pug memory brought to you by Liberty Cola>

[BazookaTwo]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:33 AM, Jacke said:

Prestige Run powers (Ninja Run, Beast Run, Athletic Run) are still mutually exclusive with each other

 

Does. that mean these three DO stack? Because, I don't mind burning end while travelling for running all three of em. 
Off to test!

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, BazookaTwo said:

Does. that mean these three DO stack?

 

No.

 

Pool and temp travel powers don't stack.  Pool won't stack with pool, temp won't stack with temp, pool won't stack with temp.

 

Hover, Combat Jumping, all Sprints, Hurdle and Swift stack with pool and temp travel powers.  Powers in primaries/secondaries which buff movement (examples: Quickness, Kuji-in Rin, Inertial Reduction) stack with pool and temp travel powers.  +Movement bonuses from IO sets stack with pool and temp travel powers.

[BazookaTwo]

36 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

No.

 

Pool and temp travel powers don't stack.  Pool won't stack with pool, temp won't stack with temp, pool won't stack with temp.

 

Hover, Combat Jumping, all Sprints, Hurdle and Swift stack with pool and temp travel powers.  Powers in primaries/secondaries which buff movement (examples: Quickness, Kuji-in Rin, Inertial Reduction) stack with pool and temp travel powers.  +Movement bonuses from IO sets stack with pool and temp travel powers.

 

Thanks movement power guru! 

Yeah I had a closer look and I see all this now.  Since you can set travel power stances to Ninja Run that's one less power I need in the tray. 

Edited May 30 by BazookaTwo

[Ukase]

I actually took infiltration on a new character. I was enjoying it - until I realized the Kismet 6% bonus wouldn't work if the power wasn't on. 
I was going to keep it - but I had to dedicate two slots just for end reduction in it to keep it running during combat, so I respec'd out of it. 

Glad it works for some of you. I'll stick with my CJ & SS combo for now. 

[Herotu]

It looks like a dump stat. I never go near it. Here's why;

 

* What's the point of stealth anyway? I mean, if even a few enemies can see through it, it's situational at best.

* I am not quick enough to stealth to the end of a mission before somebody else has already done it.

* Why wouldn't I get a Stealth enhancement on a run power? 

* Superspeed has a Stealth component.

* Any of my characters that have a stealth theme, take a powerset that has a stealth power in it, e.g. devices. Surprise surprise!