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Taming Leaching


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It is good we have a lot of new players, and they are learning the game. I have serious doubts that power leveling them does much on the lines of them learning the game.

 

Usually leaching, which has been around for quite sometime, has not been much of problem, mostly because AE farming provided for that; yet with all the nurfs done to AE, even to the leachers it became not good enough. And thus the propagation of where the leachers went opened up. The first victim was PI Radio Missions, which with the new mob upgrades did go a long way at making them challenging; but when your team of 8 only has 2 50s, trying to do it at +4/8 where it would be challenging becomes impossible, and +2/8 or less, simply not worth my time. The next victim I notice is the MSR, now the majority of the participants are well below level 45, heck many are not even 20, and thus the pressure goes to the very few 50s that show up, I have seen times, where you can't even get 8 level 50s to lead all the groups! ITF has become another, but less bad, TF for leaching, lots of 35s trying to get in +4/8 KM, can't blame them, but when 6 of the 8 players are in their 30s, the +4/8 becomes not possible, and a waste of time and challenge for the 50s.

 

You will find me pushing for TINPEX since you have to be 50, and it precludes  leaching

 

This post is to solicit suggestions, on how to curve the leaching.

 

Some thoughts, I had, but not really sure of them...

 

For MSR, perhaps have the zone, being a danger zone, enforce the minimum level to gain access as they used to long ago?

 

Perhaps missions check for level, like TFs, and thus bracketed by zone level ranges?

 

Not sure what the right answer is, but some relief from the abusive leaching would be nice

 

 

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23 minutes ago, MsSmart said:

Not sure what the right answer is

 

Don't accept characters you don't want on your team when you're leading?  Don't stay on teams with characters that you find objectionable when you're not leading?  Utilize the existing right to team with who you want, when you want, instead of asking for draconian measures which would prevent friends and families from playing together, deny players opportunities to meet new people and develop relationships, and create an oppressive atmosphere?

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59 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Don't accept characters you don't want on your team when you're leading?  Don't stay on teams with characters that you find objectionable when you're not leading?  Utilize the existing right to team with who you want, when you want, instead of asking for draconian measures which would prevent friends and families from playing together, deny players opportunities to meet new people and develop relationships, and create an oppressive atmosphere?

Right.  If you're running at +4/8, and you can't carry the team on your own (not too hard to do, if you have a well built combat-focused AT), you need to specify that anyone joining needs to be lvl 50+.

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     Players of any game, will literally always try to find some way to get the most reward for the least effort: this includes "farming" and "leeching".  You could play cat and mouse all day trying to add things to the game to curb this and you'd never actually win.  Can't beat human nature.  It's like they already said, just lead your own teams and kick players who don't meet your standards: you can control who joins your team.

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If you don't want people you find objectionable, form your own team.

 

Don't want to form your own team, work with what you get.

 

And "Missions check for level?" So you want to gut the *entire sidekicking system?* Yeah. Don't think that idea is ever going to fly.

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8 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

 Players of any game, will literally always try to find some way to get the most reward for the least effort

 

Not all players, just the players that want to take advantage of other people or a game's systems.

 

Every player playing City of Heroes isn't doing that. I know because I'm one of them, and I have teamed with plenty of other players that aren't trying to do that ... but, of course, I'm not just playing level 50's or trying to get to level 50 as quickly as possible. I'm not even planning on a leveling a character to level 50 ever again - I plan to level lock them (no xp) at level 49 or below.

 

10 hours ago, MsSmart said:

Usually leaching, which has been around for quite sometime, has not been much of problem

 

I myself have always been annoyed when someone joins a team and then stands at the door and says "oh, my breakfast/lunch/dinner is ready. I'll be back"

They knew they didn't have time to game, and they were intentionally not saying anything until they entered the mission.

 

Some players are just okay with the leaching going on. Some people find a sense of superiority by allowing leaching and/or actively intentionally power-leveling characters.

This brings the sense to some players that it is fine to be AFK power-leveled or to join teams that they really can't help on.

 

That being said, most of the time recruitment messages aren't clear. You almost always will end up on a speed task force if you don't ask in advance and, even then, it will often turn into a speed taskforce. Clearly defining what going to happen or expected from/for a team and/or minimum level accepted for team membership when sending an /LFG message goes a long way.

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

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I don't think the issue's as bad as OP makes it sound, but it is sometimes annoying.  I don't know if it's so pressing that we need to make serious changes either, some of it's just the nature of playing with other people.

 

If you need a suggestion though, it'd be that devs "gate" more stuff, like SBB: not just "no one but 50s here please" but "you must be UNDER this tall to ride."  I like SBB for this because it keeps you from just walking all over everything thanks to all your purples and Incarnate powers, you have to play fairly well, usually, to get through it (especially if that other guy doesn't know how to ha ha).  I don't want to see it applied all over the lace though, I'd just put it on some new content.

 

Not a popular option, but to paraphrase, I've seen what many of you cheer for so your downvotes mean pretty much nothing (you'll note my serial downvoter has shown up again ha ha)(.  😃

 

17 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

Players of any game, will literally always try to find some way to get the most reward for the least effort: this includes "farming" and "leeching".

I mean, I'd like to take your wallet, but why even try and stop me or pass laws to punish me for doing so, right?   😃   Sure it's human nature but the game's not an anarchic free for all, it's a managed system, we can and should still discourage people from doing it or at least slowing them down some (just like they removed the ability to farm up Scrapyard).  That's common sense.

Edited by Clave Dark 5
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Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes
Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise.
This game isn't hard work, it's easy!
Go have fun!
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It's all about leadership;  A good leader will communicate to their teammates what is expected - I'm not talking about barking orders, but making it clear that, for instance, players of all levels are welcome on their team, but they must actually fight and not just stand by the entrance.  A good leader will recognize if the team is in over their heads and will attempt to direct the team's efforts more effectively, or barring that, adjust the challenges they face to be more in line with what they are actually capable of.  Conversely, a bad leader will bark orders, demand total obedience, and have no patience for others that don't fall in line.  Stranger yet, a "meh" leader oftentimes is very powerful individually, and really doesn't care what the rest of the team does, barely communicates, and pretty much just soloes the content, only really caring about the star so they can set whatever mission they want and kick people if they take too long to exit...

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3 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I mean, I'd like to take your wallet, but why even try and stop me or pass laws to punish me for doing so, right?   😃   Sure it's human nature but the game's not an anarchic free for all, it's a managed system, we can and should still discourage people from doing it or at least slowing them down some (just like they removed the ability to farm up Scrapyard).  That's common sense.

     The effort is fine, but there's a limit to how much I'm going to care (especially about leeching) when the game is this easy and the reactions to calling someone out are worse than the non-reactions to letting them be AFK or useless and just carrying them.  If I really called out, and kicked, leechers on my team: that would be 99% of random Empaths as well.  I'm actually in the camp that just passively agrees to carry useless people (who in some cases don't contribute even 1% of what I do) and just suffer in silence.  We're going to win anyways: it's just going to be slower.  That's just how the game is now, and making waves by calling it out isn't worth the effort: Vet Level 300 Empath deliberately not using any buff all TF and just useless slugging along as a "worse than Sentinel" ball of ineptitude... just keep your mouth shut and don't call out their leeching.  Pointing it out makes you "the bad guy", so just carry them and move on. 

 

That's CoH.

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I do not believe the false notion that "your ignorance is just as good as my knowledge."

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37 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

     The effort is fine, but there's a limit to how much I'm going to care (especially about leeching) when the game is this easy and the reactions to calling someone out are worse than the non-reactions to letting them be AFK or useless and just carrying them.  If I really called out, and kicked, leechers on my team: that would be 99% of random Empaths as well.  I'm actually in the camp that just passively agrees to carry useless people (who in some cases don't contribute even 1% of what I do) and just suffer in silence.  We're going to win anyways: it's just going to be slower.  That's just how the game is now, and making waves by calling it out isn't worth the effort: Vet Level 300 Empath deliberately not using any buff all TF and just useless slugging along as a "worse than Sentinel" ball of ineptitude... just keep your mouth shut and don't call out their leeching.  Pointing it out makes you "the bad guy", so just carry them and move on. 

 

That's CoH.

What Emp recently spanked one of your badly built brutes in PvP, that’s caused you to start posting your widely exaggerated nonsense about them?  
Geez, give it a rest.


 

I agree that the best way to deal with leeches is too just kick them from the team and move on.

Edited by Ghost
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45 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

No, that's passive-aggressive.

K, well the alternative is aggressive-aggressive where you kick everyone leeching.  Quietly accepting it and carrying them seems to be the more palatable alternative to everyone so far.  That's CoH.

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I do not believe the false notion that "your ignorance is just as good as my knowledge."

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I can't say that I've encountered a noticeable amount of "leeching" (of XP, rewards, whatever). I suppose it is possible on some leagues and events (Mapserver, Halloween, Mothership, Hamidon, etc.) that some folks capable of contributing more aren't doing so, but I've never really noticed. On missions, I think it would be rather obvious if someone isn't playing.

 

The behavior closest to what I might consider "leeching" involve open-world things like Giant Monster zone events. My bête noire is folks who want to fight Giant Monsters and collect rewards but can't be bothered to clean up the additional critters that will prevent the next respawn. I can almost understand the reluctance of a player to backtrack to clean up Paladin spawns in King's Row... but there is no reason to not clean up the extras in something like the Grim Vale battle royale after defeating the GMs. If this is a league or team that doesn't do the clean up? That is a black mark against all of them as far as I am concerned. Open-world multi-boxers who behave this way are the worst.

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What servers are you all playing on that this happens so much? Sounds like Everlasting but I could be wrong. 
 

I don’t encounter leechers thankfully, but I also as of late don’t team much anymore when I do log on, so maybe its a bigger issue? 
 

But everyone’s coming up with highly contrived solutions to a problem that already has a solution, well two I guess if you go Shin’s route. Warn them, they get uppity then kick em. Life’s too short to deal with shit like this

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4 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

K, well the alternative is aggressive-aggressive where you kick everyone leeching.  Quietly accepting it and carrying them seems to be the more palatable alternative to everyone so far.  That's CoH.

 

No, that's passive-aggressive.  You can be assertive without behaving like a redneck with a power mullet.  Diplomats, ambassadors, salespeople, PR people, advertisers, other players do it every day.

 

Yes, you can be an asshole and say something like, "Hey Shitface!  Take that thumb out of your ass and get the fuck over here!", or you can say something like, "Say, Captain BlasterDude, can you give me a hand with these guys?  They're resistant to my main damage type and I think they'll go down more quickly with your assistance." or "UltraMegaOKBrute, we're having some trouble keeping these spawns bunched up, do you think you're up to helping us corral them?".

 

Teaming is a relationship, and like any relationship, if you don't communicate, it's a bad relationship.  They can't read your mind any more than you can read theirs, so speak up.

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21 hours ago, MsSmart said:

Not sure what the right answer is, but some relief from the abusive leaching would be nice.

I used to recruit and run PuGs all the time. The last time I kicked someone it was because they joined my team and then didn't enter the mission. I asked once if they were going to join us and then, once the mission was over I kicked them.

 

The right answer is: be a leader. Let people know right up front "No leaches on my team. You join the fight or I kick you." And then, if they still sit there leaching kick them. The kick button is there for a reason, use it whenever necessary. No one can solve your ability to deal with other people except you.

 

And it's curb not curve.

 

20 minutes ago, Luminara said:

They can't read your mind any more than you can read theirs, so speak up.

This. This right here. This is the mistake that's behind 90% of the problems in any relationship. Whether it's a teammate, a boss, or a spouse, stop thinking people already know. They don't. Tell them. Succinctly. No one wants to hear your 20 minute long story about how your neighbor killed a squirrel and how that made you feel. Just say "I don't like it when you do that. Please do this instead."

 

If something bothers you, and you don't say anything, then it's your fault not theirs.

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10 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

If you need a suggestion though, it'd be that devs "gate" more stuff, like SBB: not just "no one but 50s here please" but "you must be UNDER this tall to ride."  I like SBB for this because it keeps you from just walking all over everything thanks to all your purples and Incarnate powers, you have to play fairly well, usually, to get through it (especially if that other guy doesn't know how to ha ha).

 

Can you clarify this more?

If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

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6 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

everyone so far.


not everyone.
Not everyone by a long shot.

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

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It's leeching, derived from leech (the critter). I've been sitting this out because there doesn't need to be a million voices saying the same thing, but this is really getting to me. There are leeches in the game who leech xp and inf' from the teams they join. Just like there are leeches in the world who leech blood from the animal they 'join' (attach themselves to).

 

(And yes, if you are the team leaders, you can tell someone that is leeching that they are expected to help contribute or they will be removed from the team. And if there are empaths on the team not buffing, then maybe remind them they have buffs and the team was expecting to be receiving them.)

 

(Edit: And if you aren't the team leader? Then you can try politely (as best you can manage) asking the individual to contribute, join the fight, or whatever. And if they still don't and the team leader doesn't kick them? Then either accept it and try to ignore them or quit the team and join/form another. Back before the difficulty settings let us solo +4/x8 content? There were 'team leaders' that actively encouraged leeching. As in they demanded that not a single person on the team other than themselves move from the door because they were just forming the team to get the higher difficulty. [Edit again: If you moved from the door, you got kicked.] So if you really want, you can blame them for establishing the precedent of being able to just door sit while on a team.)

 

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