Make the body sliders relevant - connect them to character statistics

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, temnix said:

women are nimbler and more resilient than men, who are stronger and tougher

That may be true, on average, for normal humans IRL, but once you throw in tech, magic, mutations, science, or non-humans with different sexual characteristics, things go right out the window...

Edited July 19 by biostem

[Luminara]

4 minutes ago, temnix said:

Any arguments in support of either, or you think thinking just makes it so?

 

Cryptic very clearly and directly stated that nothing cosmetic would or should, ever, in any way, alter character strength or ability.  Your proposal was considered 23 years ago, when development of this game began, and rejected then.  And HC isn't going to reverse policy on that, because they firmly agree with it, as it allows significantly more diversity in character creation and player self-expression.

 

No still means no.  Deal with it.

[Akisan]

13 minutes ago, temnix said:

1 hour ago, biostem said:

I don't think height or body size/mass should come into play at all, (with regard to any sort of performance advantage or disadvantage), just like I don't think sex/body type should affect your effectiveness.

 

Any arguments in support of either, or you think thinking just makes it so? I didn't say anything about the sex choice, mind you, but, of course, women are nimbler and more resilient than men, who are stronger and tougher. There is no reason whatever why this would not apply to superheroes. Or does Black Widow punch through walls? There is She-Hulk, but she is hulky. Of course, in both sexes there may be some small superheroes with unusual strength or who leap between buildings on short legs, in short, where their abilities aren't completely limited by their body, but that is where superpowers come in. A short-legged character, I proposed, shouldn't run or jump well naturally, but he may have Combat Jumping or Superspeed or another power to offset his starting point. That, in a nutshell, is the entire concept of superheroes as they were originally conceived - that they are regular people, maybe even invalids or puny, but with something extra, from an investigator's talent to flying, that lets them go beyond and achieve. It's the American way! Now how did this turn into a situation where, instead of being surpassed, reality is la-la-la denied the way you and others here are doing? 

 

 

10 minutes ago, biostem said:

13 minutes ago, temnix said:

women are nimbler and more resilient than men, who are stronger and tougher

That may be true, on average, for normal humans IRL, but once you throw in tech, magic, mutations, science, or non-humans with different sexual characteristics, things go right out the window...

Edited 7 minutes ago by biostem

 

Pretty much this, in a nutshell.  The sliders affecting character stats would make sense if we were designing, say, a fighting game, or a simulation game, or something where baseline human limitations might matter.  Once hard superpowers (regardless of Origin) start getting applied, those baselines stop really mattering.  Even our level 1 characters, with no powers toggled on, easily exceed any normal human baseline that we'd use:  It doesn't normally take several dozen bullets, tazers, shotgun blasts, etc. to stop a normal person.  Normal people can't effortlessly run back and forth across the city at 4 or 5 minute mile speeds, while easily clearing 6' fences and pretending to dodge traffic.  And that's with no active powers (not even Sprint.  We're out for a light jog.).  Once we start registering "proper" powers, those baselines may as well be referring to a martian or something - they don't matter.  This is a game that's taken a few acceptable breaks from reality, and the separation of cosmetics from performance is one of the very well chosen breaks.

 

If this were a much more grounded game, where we were supposed to be slightly more powerful than the average person (low level D&D, some DM's interpretation of Paranoia, etc.), then yes, I would absolutely support body type having an effect on our capabilities - but it's not.  We're incredibly overpowered compared to the average person, and easily in the range of that being an acceptable (or preferable) break from reality.  So... still a hard no.

[PeregrineFalcon]

30 minutes ago, Luminara said:

And HC isn't going to reverse policy on that, because they firmly agree with it, as it allows significantly more diversity in character creation and player self-expression.

Did a Homecoming developer actually say that to you?

 

I think you're probably correct, but I don't remember a Homecoming dev actually posting anything like that.

[Psyonico]

Spiderman.

 

Spiderman is small, nimble, AND super strong.

 

This is a terrible idea. Period.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

Might as well ask for +50 Res (All), +50 Def (All) and +10,000 HP for wearing nothing but Barbarian bra and Labeaux thong.

 

My main uses the Labeaux Thong as part of her leotard...sooo...would I just get half that?  >_>

[BrandX]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

Every shift is both a plus and a minus. In the OP's example, you can gain 25% stealth by making your character as short as the game allows, but it costs you 25% of your max HP.

 

I see.  Yeah.  No one is going to want to take a hit on their stats.

[biostem]

Just now, BrandX said:

My main uses the Labeaux Thong as part of her leotard

Is there a Labeaux bottom + tights option, or do you use a different skin color to accomplish the look?

[BrandX]

Just now, biostem said:

Is there a Labeaux bottom + tights option, or do you use a different skin color to accomplish the look?

 

I've used it with a few different Chest Options (Witch's and Stealths come to mind) and use a belt to hide the seam issues to make it look like a thong leotard.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, BrandX said:

I've used it with a few different Chest Options (Witch's and Stealths come to mind) and use a belt to hide the seam issues to make it look like a thong leotard.

 

So for the leg section, you just stick with whatever skin color you're going with, then?

[BrandX]

Just now, biostem said:

 

So for the leg section, you just stick with whatever skin color you're going with, then?

 

Yes.

 

I did use Body Armor and colored the mesh looking area to match another characters skin color, so it looked see through, who also has the Labeaux Thong.

[Haijinx]

32 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Spiderman.

 

Spiderman is small, nimble, AND super strong.

 

This is a terrible idea. Period.

 

Molly Hayes aka Bruiser aka Princess Powerful is a 10 year old girl that is as strong as She Hulk / Thing / Wonder Man etc.  

 

She defeated Wolverine with one punch then took a nap. 

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

She defeated Wolverine with one punch then took a nap. 

And Beast, who is much larger/more massive than many other X-Men, *isn't* the strongest, but rather one of the smartest... isn't it fun how comics allow us to break from tropes/cliches!?

[Psyonico]

13 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

 

Molly Hayes aka Bruiser aka Princess Powerful is a 10 year old girl that is as strong as She Hulk / Thing / Wonder Man etc.  

 

She defeated Wolverine with one punch then took a nap. 

I'm actually not into comics, despite me liking superheroes a lot.  I picked a very well known example because I happen to only know very well known examples.

 

Thanks for the lesson.

10 minutes ago, biostem said:

And Beast, who is much larger/more massive than many other X-Men, *isn't* the strongest, but rather one of the smartest... isn't it fun how comics allow us to break from tropes/cliches!?

Another great example.

[Luminara]

54 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Did a Homecoming developer actually say that to you?

 

Nope.

 

54 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I think you're probably correct, but I don't remember a Homecoming dev actually posting anything like that.

 

Why would they need to?  They created a new currency specifically for a costume swap system with almost 200 options, they've spent five years expanding customization options for powers, animations and weapon models, they've increased enemy group diversity by adding male/female versions where only one or the other was previously in place... if they'd thought for a femtosecond that they'd ever want to link character performance to visual appearance, none of that would've happened.

 

I'm not even reading between the lines, this is all right in front of us.  They've been telling us, for over five years, that they're dedicated to doing the opposite of what the OP wants, with every increase in character customization.

[Triumphant]

Quote

Like other MMOs, CoH has wasted millions of hours of people's lives for very little

 

I mean... hyperbole aside, this is what every video game does, by it's very nature.  Unless, of course, you pay a great deal of money for the video game.  In that event, I suppose it wastes millions of hours of peoples lives for a lot of cash. 😄🤷‍♂️

 

Thankfully, this particular timewaster is completely free to play (for which I, as an impoverished fellow, am extremely grateful).

[Mr. Apocalypse]

6 hours ago, temnix said:

 

@Triumphant It is pleasant to read a response from someone who is not a low-effort nay-sayer.

 

I have found that in general, calling people names, or in this case discounting their reasons for an answer and referring to them as a low-effort Nay-sayers, shows that you really have no respect for the others that have been playing this game for the last 20 years or so, and the in depth knowledge they have garnered from the current and past Devs.  

 

On that note, many of us have made a suggestion that flopped, don't take it personal.

 

Since I was the first to respond to your post, I want top let you know this: don't kid yourself that I didn't put any effort into my reply.  I put as much as was needed, to know it was a bad idea, as evident now by the almost complete lack of support you have received.

 

Sorry if your feelings got damaged in the process, it was not the intent, and that is entirely on you.

[Jacke]

I just want the Body and other Sliders to be calibrated.  Give us some numbers in the editor, please!

[Blastit]

On 7/19/2024 at 11:12 PM, Luminara said:

Might as well ask for +50 Res (All), +50 Def (All) and +10,000 HP for wearing nothing but Barbarian bra and Labeaux thong.

 

I kinda would like to see CoH April's Fools Edition where character sliders, costume options, auras and power set choices all modify your base stats. I'm not convinced it would have longevity as a game but it could get pretty funny.

[Oubliette_Red]

On 7/18/2024 at 10:59 PM, Mr. Apocalypse said:

I'm going to have to say no. This would be to much like gear stats in other games and will end up making everyone just max out the sliders or minimize depending on the effect wanted. But more than that, it would kill concept builds, as you would possibly have to make a unwanted sacrifices in order to have the look you want.

 

Agreed.

 

I loath other MMO's that tie appearance (gear) to stats.

That's the beauty of CoH, your can be a diminutive tween, rockin' kick-ass 'boot to the head' blows, crushing the enemies of Paragon City, a larger-than-life flying celestial bovine healing the populace, or an undead summoner of demons looking to subjugate the world.

 

[Frozen Burn]

I get the concept and reasoning behind this idea, but a hard no from me.  

 

As already stated above in this thread, the great thing about this game is that the costume and body provide NO stats or benefit whatsoever, unlike so many other games out there.  We are free to make and build whatever it is to our liking without being made to feel bad about sacrificing some extra stat bonuses for our look.  And then on the other side, all the min/maxers would look the same - which is also annoying and counter what makes the game so great comparatively. 

 

I have a tiny fairy hover TW/WP Brute which is a really fun character to play.  By these rules requested, I'd get screwed out of +HPs and +Resists which are sorely needed with WP.  Why should someone lose out because of their concept?

 

Additionally, the game is already balanced around power sets.  This would require a total rebalancing of the game which would then make some power sets do less in the off chance a player decides to push that slider all the way to one side. 

 

Again, a hard "NO" from me.

 

Edited July 22 by Frozen Burn

[Ukase]

So, I'm not sure what I expected from the title, but I was pleasantly surprised. As another pointed out - highly creative/imaginative! 

It could certainly raise demand for some prismatics, lol. 

That said, I've got a lot of characters; about 5 of them I have agonized over respecs to keep them relevant with some of the changes to various powers and game mechanics. 

The very last thing I want is to see a tailor to make adjustments. This would be like going for a voluntary root canal. 
Doing anything at the tailor is painful for me, so I tend to use the random costume and adjust a few things - like the tail and the animal head. More often than not, the random costume gives you a tail and an animal head. Or something that's not a standard human head. 

As much as I love the idea if we'd all started with it, my own laziness says Please - no. 

[biostem]

3 hours ago, Ukase said:

highly creative/imaginative!

I'm not attacking you, but what is more "creative/imaginative" - someone's physique acting somewhat inline with how they work IRL, or not restricting characters to such things?  How is the mundane/realistic expectation the more novel approach to take?

[Ukase]

7 hours ago, biostem said:

How is the mundane/realistic expectation the more novel approach to take?

It is more novel because it doesn't work that way now. It's different. 
The idea that being smaller would increase something like stealth is not intuitive. It may not have been thought out to how it would play out if released, or in the resources required to code, but it was still a fun idea. And it took creativity and imagination to come up with it. 

[biostem]

51 minutes ago, Ukase said:

It is more novel because it doesn't work that way now. It's different. 
The idea that being smaller would increase something like stealth is not intuitive. It may not have been thought out to how it would play out if released, or in the resources required to code, but it was still a fun idea. And it took creativity and imagination to come up with it. 

So if we limited powersets to only certain origins, that'd be good because it's different than how things are now?  You think being smaller wouldn't have any bearing on your ability to sneak or otherwise evade detection?  No, the idea is that your powers determine what you can or cannot do, not your height, weight, gender, or origin.  NOT restricting things based upon real-world limitations, (real or imaginary), is the more imaginative and inventive path to take, and one that was chosen by the original dev team...