Is it rude to suck at CoX?

[ZemX]

Almost nobody cares if you are merely "sub-optimal" with build choices.   It's when someone's powers start affecting others negatively that people get called "rude".  And you don't need a bunch of offline community research for that.  You can see that happening right in front of you and learn.... or refuse to.

[Uun]

I have a pretty high tolerance for people running non-meta builds and power sets. Most of the standard content in the game can be completed by any combination of players. That said, I had an experience recently that did tick me off. I joined a Kahn TF and we decided to proceed with just 4 players. It was a casual kill most/kill to objectives run set to +1. I wasn't the leader and I didn't examine the other players builds before starting other than noting what ATs we had. It wasn't until the final mission and we were facing Reichsman that I noticed that this one corruptor was dying A LOT. At first I thought he might have been a new player and told him to stay out of melee range. Then someone else noticed that this corruptor had just one power from his primary and maybe two from his secondary. Cleary not optimal. If I had noticed before we started, I wouldn't have agreed to run with 4. Even so, we had managed to get Reichsman down to about 20% health. We were running low on inspirations, but I thought we could probably finish him off. But then another player (not the leader) got into a fight about the corruptor running a troll build and both of them quit the team (I forget who quit first). The corruptor bears some blame for running a troll build, the leader bears some blame for not checking before we started, and the third player bears some blame for getting into fight about it in the middle of and AV fight.

[biostem]

This reminds me of the old "newb" vs "noob" argument - basically, if you are just new to a game, and are still learning the ropes, but are otherwise open to learning and to constructive input, you're generally still welcomed to team, but if you are simply unwilling to learn and/or aren't open to constructive input, then you'll be less tolerated...

[chuckv3]

17 hours ago, Lunar Ronin said:

Another, related video:

 

 

 

 

TL:DW: As the older a MMORPG gets, the more solved it becomes.  The more solved a MMORPG becomes, the more toxic its community gets.  It applies to City of Heroes as well.  The Homecoming community as a whole is more meta-focused and toxic than live was, because the game is 20 years old.  It's just not nearly to the level as other MMORPGs as City of Heroes is a more casual MMORPG.

Exactly. That's why I have quit most others. Secret World end game is basically repeating "nightmare mode" dungeons, and if you don't have mad skills, nobody wants you on their team. And all teams are always 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 dps. ALWAYS. So it ends up being an impenetrable barrier for those not already uber. If I recall correctly, Tera was similar. One of the best things about CoX is the ability to solve problems in multiple ways, sometimes unexpectedly.

 

 

[chuckv3]

16 hours ago, JKCarrier said:

I'll admit, one of the reasons I don't team very often (besides just being kinda anti-social) is the fear that I'm going to screw things up for everyone else with my general ineptitude.

Nah! I mostly suck, and people invite me back a lot! Even "entertainment value" is value, even if you are not so great at actually playing.

Edited September 30 by chuckv3

[Gobbledigook]

You can have the opposite and be too good for a team also. If you are on a fully incarnate toon with a complete build and join a 54 team and steam roll it players sometimes leave. Of course you could tone it down a little.

 

As long as players are having fun, i do not care how good their hero/villain is.

[chuckv3]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

I have a pretty high tolerance for people running non-meta builds and power sets. Most of the standard content in the game can be completed by any combination of players. That said, I had an experience recently that did tick me off. I joined a Kahn TF and we decided to proceed with just 4 players. It was a casual kill most/kill to objectives run set to +1. I wasn't the leader and I didn't examine the other players builds before starting other than noting what ATs we had. It wasn't until the final mission and we were facing Reichsman that I noticed that this one corruptor was dying A LOT. At first I thought he might have been a new player and told him to stay out of melee range. Then someone else noticed that this corruptor had just one power from his primary and maybe two from his secondary. Cleary not optimal. If I had noticed before we started, I wouldn't have agreed to run with 4. Even so, we had managed to get Reichsman down to about 20% health. We were running low on inspirations, but I thought we could probably finish him off. But then another player (not the leader) got into a fight about the corruptor running a troll build and both of them quit the team (I forget who quit first). The corruptor bears some blame for running a troll build, the leader bears some blame for not checking before we started, and the third player bears some blame for getting into fight about it in the middle of and AV fight.

I eschew outright greifing or obtuse behavior, not poor builds or weak skills.

 

I think if you are forming a team and have ANY expectations, you should state them up front. Otherwise just enjoy the entertainment value of the PUG Life. Just my 2 inf.

[catsi563]

the answer is no its not rude to be bad at a game or just learning or just having fun

 

i will add a single caveat which others have pointed out the only real exception is various harder difficulty modes or badge runs that may require a certain level of skill or at least basic build acumen to get through successfully. 

 

an example would be the vaz badge in the DFB trial. its requires everyone to not use aoe powers and to stay focused on one target until its down and is generally better fought by pulling the boss out of the room to avoid any accidental mistargets

 

when the team listens to the strategy its easilly doable when the team doesnt listen or that one player doesnt care or pay attention it can be very exasperating 

[Erratic1]

On 9/29/2024 at 6:33 PM, JKCarrier said:

I'll admit, one of the reasons I don't team very often (besides just being kinda anti-social) is the fear that I'm going to screw things up for everyone else with my general ineptitude.

 

This isn't World of Warcraft where one person doing the wrong thing at the wrong moment wipes the entire party.

 

Closest you will likely come is the accidental pull of a second group, most times--which still should not cause a total wipe.

Edited October 1 by Erratic1

[Gerswin]

 

CoH sorts people based on personality rather than objective character effectiveness.  Effective leading is a much higher premium than optimized stats. People that are good leaders, funny, flexible, and just the right amount of patient are in high demand as teammates. People that afk, ignore chat, start arguments. etc. usually aren't welcome on most teams no matter how skilled they are.

[Scarlet Shocker]

6 hours ago, High_Beam said:

This GIF is so gloriously nuanced when you factor in what you know about little Alice.

 

 

I think we first have to define what "suck" actually means in this context. Not being very good is less important than knowing your role and being able to cooperate in tricky situations and knowing your role - I'm thinking of MO runs etc here.

 

 

[Enchantica]

It's a game.  it's not rude to be a bad player, most of us were at one time or another.  The point is to have fun. players who have archtypes that are not "optimal" can still play and be effective in almost all content. these type of players should avoid "top tier or 5 star stuff" out of courtesy. 

 

It is funny that the original poster mentioned a pet less master mind, one of my friends has one and plays that toon now and again lol.

 

 

[kelika2]

Other MMOs have some level of commitment

Something like World of Warcraft: Vanilla's Wailing Caverns.

Including recruitment, travel and making sure to get all the quest stuff outta the way you are looking at 2 hours or so assuming people know what they are doing.  Someone leaving is bad because what newcomer wants to have a half done instance with the quests half done themselves?  they need to get to the instance with elite enemies guarding the way on top of running through that massive instance itself

 

So if you are a hunter with a pet on Aggressive messing up CC and spamming Multishot and/or tab targeting your serpent sting yeah, you are rude

 

Or if you are in Everquest, a bored mage in City of Mist and decide to get up and stretch your legs to look around while someone is pulling and you come back to camp with a group you found while the other puller found their group then yes, you suck.  hours of exp potentially lost and even if someone has a handy epic cleric nearby there is still recovery time and rebreaking camp time

 

City of Heroes has so little content like that, you can show up with a frozen pool noodle and generally get the instance done before it thaws.  You can have some quitters in Positron TF and still able to get it done.  yeah, you can suck at CoH a fair bit because the bar is so low.  unless you have knockback/repel/poor wormhole+fold space useage then i dont mind you getting kicked.  we can finish yin with 7/8 players

[Without_Pause]

I recently leveled a character without slotting anything until 27. I have done the same but until 22 for numerous characters. That build at 27 was terrible. It was sucking wind all the time. No one said anything and teams didn't feel all that hindered by it to my knowledge. So yeah, I was being rude by waiting that long to slot a character. It also saved me taking the time to do a respect at 27. 

[ivanhedgehog]

8 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

This isn't World of Warcraft where one person doing the wrong thing at the wrong moment wipes the entire party.

 

Closest you will likely come is the accidental pull of a second group, most times--which still should cause a total wipe.

There are exceptions. The last mission of posi 1, there is always one idiot that runs to the door and pops all the ambushes with zero notice. no matter that someone already told them not to do it, they just gotta run up there.

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

There are exceptions. The last mission of posi 1, there is always one idiot that runs to the door and pops all the ambushes with zero notice. no matter that someone already told them not to do it, they just gotta run up there.

 

If you're told not to do something and do it anyway, it is no longer an accident/screw up. Its malicious.

[Andreah]

I have nearly unlimited tolerance for weak builds, poor slotting, etc., in normal content, Be an emp that only uses heals, be a petless MM! I don't care. Just be fun to play with, that's all I ask!

[Story Archer]

On 9/29/2024 at 4:40 PM, Burnt Umber said:

So, a recent conversation I had in game reminded me of this old video essay I saw:

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/BKP1I7IocYU?si=50h5Xd66rU05Gdyz

 

 

I always wanted to play a MM at a moderately high level, join a PUG for a TF, and then not summon any pets and see if anyone else noticed. Just as an experiment.

[Story Archer]

On 9/30/2024 at 7:49 PM, Erratic1 said:

 

If you're told not to do something and do it anyway, it is no longer an accident/screw up. Its malicious.

 

Right. I have almost total patience for someone not knowing how to 'properly' build a character, get the most out of their concept or even not knowing how to perform various tasks in and out of combat - we were all learning at some point, and this community has, in my experience been almost without exception patient and willing to teach. On the other hand, someone who's actually ruining the fun for others either through deliberate ignorance or just deliberateness period is completely unacceptable.

 

I had a PUG with a guy who never stopped talking, in character and in the 3rd person while in character, all while using a build clearly put together for RP purposes more than combat effectiveness... but he wasn't half as annoying as the guy who constantly pulled multiple groups and caused repeated TPK's, even when warned against it...

[tidge]

18 hours ago, Story Archer said:

 

I always wanted to play a MM at a moderately high level, join a PUG for a TF, and then not summon any pets and see if anyone else noticed. Just as an experiment.

 

if you aren't dying, I doubt anyone would care. I suppose if it was the final AV fight of something like a Manticore and you weren't providing any DPS I'd probably say something before you got a player note.

[Shin Magmus]

     Most people lack the awareness to even know how good or bad they truly are at something.  Being rude has always been about intent.  When I'm rude, it's because I am intending to be rude.  The person on your team who doesn't know what enhancements are isn't intending to be rude, so no.

[Uncle Shags]

Most of the rude I've seen comes from the other end of the experience spectrum. People have run some tfs, mission arcs, etc. so many times that they've forgotten what it's like to do the content for the first time. Joining a tf for the first time to find out it's an unadvertized speed run is a real bummer.  

 

I joined my first Halloween "tf" the other day and the leader did nothing but bark orders and tp us through the entire thing.  "Don't move!" "Kill demon!" "Kill zombies! Quick!"  I'm used to speed runners, but there was an obviously new guy asking legit questions that got ignored.  I tried to help him in tells, but I didn't know much either.  I was at least able to explain what costumes were and how to get them.  But otherwise, the poor bastard was screwed. 

 

Even simple things like DFB. The difference between "Badge run!  Don't attack the minions! No aoe!" and "If you are new and don't know what the badge rules are in here please speak up!" is night and day.  

 

Short story long, I think some of us are often very rude to noobs. 

[seebs]

I hope not, because I even wrote a guide on how!

[Clave Dark 5]

On 10/3/2024 at 2:46 PM, Story Archer said:

 

I always wanted to play a MM at a moderately high level, join a PUG for a TF, and then not summon any pets and see if anyone else noticed. Just as an experiment.

I've leveled two semi-petless MMs and never had anyone say one damned thing about... except one jerk the forums.

[Story Archer]

On 10/5/2024 at 5:56 PM, Uncle Shags said:

Most of the rude I've seen comes from the other end of the experience spectrum. People have run some tfs, mission arcs, etc. so many times that they've forgotten what it's like to do the content for the first time. Joining a tf for the first time to find out it's an unadvertized speed run is a real bummer.  

 

I joined my first Halloween "tf" the other day and the leader did nothing but bark orders and tp us through the entire thing.  "Don't move!" "Kill demon!" "Kill zombies! Quick!"  I'm used to speed runners, but there was an obviously new guy asking legit questions that got ignored.  I tried to help him in tells, but I didn't know much either.  I was at least able to explain what costumes were and how to get them.  But otherwise, the poor bastard was screwed. 

 

Even simple things like DFB. The difference between "Badge run!  Don't attack the minions! No aoe!" and "If you are new and don't know what the badge rules are in here please speak up!" is night and day.  

 

Short story long, I think some of us are often very rude to noobs. 

 

This might be obvious to some, but I think it's a very good point to make. By and large the veteran CoH community is staggeringly helpful and patient, but it's those with experience (and the expectations that come with it) who are the most likely to be rude, even unintentionally. We very much want to build this community up, and its very easy to run off potentially new players by overwhelming them with stuff that they're 'supposed' to know. I've had a rude awakening on speed runs myself more than once.

 

Honestly, since my return I can only think of one time anyone was overtly rude to me in the game. I was running the only Tank on a mind-level PUG and the guy who had put  it together made a point of telling everyone to 'stay on him' at the beginning of the mission. There was no other explanation for it other than that, so I assumed that he had had a bad experience with people wandering off and wanted to avoid multiple pulls. I took the lead, taking the alphas and doing the Tanker thing, got to the Boss and realized that the group had split up at some point. I messaged that I had found the Boss and kept him focused on me so that the others could catch up, but he was defeated before they did. When we exited I got kicked immediately - I assumed it was a glitch and messaged the leader for a re-invite and proceeded to get an endless stream of vitriol because I hadn't stayed with him like I was told. Seriously, it went on for a good while. To put it into context, this wasn't some farming run, there weren't any stated goals other than finishing the mish, the guy was just supremely pissed that everyone hadn't stayed WITH him as he had in structed and that the mission had been finished without his being there to oversee the victory. He got pretty nasty and I remember being just completely blindsided by it. He seemed pretty experienced too.

 

But that's it. That is the only time I can remember in my entire history of playing the game where I would consider someone as having been overtly 'rude'. Anything else has always been a well-intended miscommunication that was easily and good-naturedly resolved.

 

 

Edited October 7 by Story Archer