Dominator vs. Controller

[Ukase]

I wasn't sure where to post this. I thought about the controller section and the dom section. Thought about posting it in each. Finally, I figured I'd just post it here. 
The short version: is there some distinction between domination and containment in a nutshell? 
I know containment does double damage. I know I liked that a lot. 

Domination, candidly, is underwhelming so far. I remember it being more useful on my earth dominator (which I haven't played in quite some time).
I know it gives a full bar of end and status protection, and increases mags on mez for 90 seconds. Where's the beef on this figurative burger? Under the pickle? 

The long version: 
 

Spoiler

I'm out of my element. Playing blasters and corruptors for so long, the nuances of controllers and dominators is a bit lost on me. Not totally. I've recently played 3 controllers to 50 (4 if you  count my PL of an ice/dark in a farm, which I don't count as playing)

They were a plant/natty, a plant/dark and an ice/dark. 

Of the three, the plant dark was arguably the strongest, with the tar patch debuff, and the heal also being a debuff. I hated the animation/activation times of both, but they are worth using. And Fade adds a lot to survivability. (at least, I assume it does. It's tough to tell when most things are locked down.) 

A couple of days ago, a friend insisted on a dad joke during an MSR. I consulted my daddy-base of stale jokes, and found one that I stole from some dark corner of the internet about the vegetable with the best Kung-Fu - Broc Li. 

Then I thought - Plant/martial Assault Dominator. Like, it was immediate. My friend insisted the character get the big afro, which I certainly accepted as sage advice. 

Inherently, Broc Li isn't really smart enough to be scared of anything, but there is some instinctive fear regarding hot water or steam. Microwaves tend to scare him, too. In any event, I digress.

What is the distinction between domination and containment? From a dps perspective, despite doms supposedly being higher on the damage scale, my controllers were doing 0/6 by level 20 and fighting at +2/8 by 24. This dom seems more frail, and seems to do less dps. The martial assault seems nice; but it also lacks power for a melee attack. Perhaps that changes when I get fly trap at 26. 

I presume I'm to chase recharge for perma dom, although I am not one who believes a dominator can only dominate with perma dom. There are plenty of ways to build a dom and be efficient and useful.

So, um, yeah, why am I playing a dom? Seems like the controller is a superior character - at least where plant is concerned. 
 

 

[Snarky]

15 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I wasn't sure where to post this. I thought about the controller section and the dom section. Thought about posting it in each. Finally, I figured I'd just post it here. 
The short version: is there some distinction between domination and containment in a nutshell? 
I know containment does double damage. I know I liked that a lot. 

Domination, candidly, is underwhelming so far. I remember it being more useful on my earth dominator (which I haven't played in quite some time).
I know it gives a full bar of end and status protection, and increases mags on mez for 90 seconds. Where's the beef on this figurative burger? Under the pickle? 

The long version: 
 

  Hide contents

I'm out of my element. Playing blasters and corruptors for so long, the nuances of controllers and dominators is a bit lost on me. Not totally. I've recently played 3 controllers to 50 (4 if you  count my PL of an ice/dark in a farm, which I don't count as playing)

They were a plant/natty, a plant/dark and an ice/dark. 

Of the three, the plant dark was arguably the strongest, with the tar patch debuff, and the heal also being a debuff. I hated the animation/activation times of both, but they are worth using. And Fade adds a lot to survivability. (at least, I assume it does. It's tough to tell when most things are locked down.) 

A couple of days ago, a friend insisted on a dad joke during an MSR. I consulted my daddy-base of stale jokes, and found one that I stole from some dark corner of the internet about the vegetable with the best Kung-Fu - Broc Li. 

Then I thought - Plant/martial Assault Dominator. Like, it was immediate. My friend insisted the character get the big afro, which I certainly accepted as sage advice. 

Inherently, Broc Li isn't really smart enough to be scared of anything, but there is some instinctive fear regarding hot water or steam. Microwaves tend to scare him, too. In any event, I digress.

What is the distinction between domination and containment? From a dps perspective, despite doms supposedly being higher on the damage scale, my controllers were doing 0/6 by level 20 and fighting at +2/8 by 24. This dom seems more frail, and seems to do less dps. The martial assault seems nice; but it also lacks power for a melee attack. Perhaps that changes when I get fly trap at 26. 

I presume I'm to chase recharge for perma dom, although I am not one who believes a dominator can only dominate with perma dom. There are plenty of ways to build a dom and be efficient and useful.

So, um, yeah, why am I playing a dom? Seems like the controller is a superior character - at least where plant is concerned. 
 

 

The spelling and pronunciation are completely different 

[ChzBoi]

15 minutes ago, Snarky said:

The spelling and pronunciation are completely different 

......I heard this quote in my head, in Snarky's voice, which is mine and all mine to enjoy, hoping he would post........my day is made....

[Ukase]

One cannot be angry at a snake for being a snake, anymore than I can take issue with Snarky for being snarky. 🤣

[Psi-bolt]

Not to hijack the thread, but I always wondered why they didn't give Dominators pure Blast secondaries.  I just don't get the idea of forcing squishy characters into melee range.  Blasters I can kinda see it because they have a choice and it's goes along with the suicidal playstyle.  

[Ukase]

8 minutes ago, Psi-bolt said:

Not to hijack the thread, but I always wondered why they didn't give Dominators pure Blast secondaries.  I just don't get the idea of forcing squishy characters into melee range.  Blasters I can kinda see it because they have a choice and it's goes along with the suicidal playstyle.  

It's a fair question. I don't know the answer. I suppose it's to cater a bit to both playstyles, ranged and melee. 

[Uun]

Containment does double damage to foes that are held, slept, immobilized, stunned or terrorized. (It was implemented in Issue 5 when the devs eliminated the stacking of pets.)

 

Domination doubles the magnitude of status effects, increases their duration, provides kb and mezz protection, refills your endurance bar and provides a 25% tohit buff for 15s. It has a duration of 90s and can be made permanent with sufficient global recharge. Not sure why that seems underwhelming to you. I quite enjoy controlling bosses in one shot and being impervious to status effects. Dominators are most definitely squishy and survive by controlling/defeating foes quickly. Their secondaries generally provide solid ST DPS, but have limited AoE options. The do get access to additional AoE powers in their Epic pools.

 

I happen to have a Plant/Martial dominator. While Plant was recently nerfed, it's still a solid set. The core control powers are still Seeds of Confusion and Carrion Creepers (which also provides AoE damage). Spore Burst was upgraded with the Deep Sleep mechanic but doesn't play well with Creepers. They added a taunt aura to Spirit Tree, which is now a must take and makes a terrific opener. Martial is a mid-tier secondary. The melee attacks aren't heavy hitters. The ranged shuriken powers are pretty good, particularly the snipe. Explosive Shuriken is OK if you treat it as ST and ignore the AoE splash.

[Placta]

Containment increases damage to mezzed enemies, Domination makes it easier to mez enemies (in addition to protecting yourself and, if you get permadom, you never have to worry about endurance again unless you get hit by a sapper or something). With Domination, a dominator can hold a boss with a single shot, and can stack enough holds on an AV to get through the purple triangles.

 

Dominators have higher base damage than controllers, and have a dedicated attack secondary so they don't have to rely on pool powers or the little bit of damage the mez attacks do. Containment makes up some of the gap, and debuffs can put a controller ahead on damage. That said, I've always found controllers tedious to solo from when the damage scales start kicking in until the pet gets built up, while doms are more fun out of the box.

 

The thing that I think helped my doms click was thinking of them as blasters that trade sheer damage for the ability to completely neutralize their foes, from single dangerous enemies at level 1 to whole groups once you pick up an AoE or two.

Edited Friday at 03:19 PM by Placta

[Ukase]

38 minutes ago, Uun said:

Containment does double damage to foes that are held, slept, immobilized, stunned or terrorized. (It was implemented in Issue 5 when the devs eliminated the stacking of pets.)

 

Domination doubles the magnitude of status effects, increases their duration, provides kb and mezz protection, refills your endurance bar and provides a 25% tohit buff for 15s. It has a duration of 90s and can be made permanent with sufficient global recharge. Not sure why that seems underwhelming to you.

I think the reason it seems underwhelming is the damage isn't (at least not that I can tell) on the same level as my controller was. Locking down a boss is fine and all, but I'm not really scared of bosses. They still attack slowly, and are fairly predictable. I should probably get my accuracy and to-hit up, and bump the difficulty so they pay off more. But right now, I'm more pro-controller than pro-dom. I'll give it time. 

I do appreciate the concise reply though. It was and is helpful. I thank you for taking the time. 

[Uun]

3 minutes ago, Ukase said:

But right now, I'm more pro-controller than pro-dom. I'll give it time. 

I enjoy both, but they have very different play styles. Some controllers can deal more damage, but that's very dependent on the combo. Some controller combos can't fight their way out of a paper bag.

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, Psi-bolt said:

Not to hijack the thread, but I always wondered why they didn't give Dominators pure Blast secondaries.  I just don't get the idea of forcing squishy characters into melee range.  Blasters I can kinda see it because they have a choice and it's goes along with the suicidal playstyle.  

A dominator is capable of fully locking a spawn down, thus allowing you to safely enter into melee to beat up mobs.

 

Keep in mind, blasters are also squishy and lack the benefit of locking spawns down, but their strongest abilities are melee oriented ones.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Dominator:

Controller:

[Yomo Kimyata]

I like playing controllers and I don't like playing dominators and I haven't played either enough to really understand why that is.  But it is deep seated and certainly psychological at this point.  I might have been scared by a dominator as a young child.

 

Looking at the ATOs though, I often wish they focused on damage rather than mez, but that probably has to do with the damage first meta.

[biostem]

For me, if I want damage and control, I'll play a control heavy blaster.  I prefer controllers because I like having buffs/debuffs as a supplement to and a fallback for, my control abilities.  I also feel like I'm more of a "team player" as a controller, (not saying dominators don't contribute, only that it's a perceptual difference to me)...

[BasiliskXVIII]

I think where domination really comes into its own is where you're at perma-dom levels of recharge. Both because the levels of recharge that give you perma-dom are fantastic for cycling your best controls, but also because your endurance is getting filled up every ~90 seconds and you're mez protected full-time, letting you play more like a controlling scrapper than a controller. The high magnitude holds also give you a chance to hold AVs through the purple triangles, so they're handy to have for tough AV fights or against groups who resist your controls normally. 

 

In general, I find Doms way more entertaining in the low levels where a controller's still trying to get their control/buff/debuff suite together, and then they pull ahead again when you get Perma-Dom. They especially shine with those control sets that don't offer much damage because a) you have a whole secondary that's damage and b) domination tends to have more powers to affect with them. I may be biased because I've been on a dom kick lately, but Dominators have clicked with me in a way that controllers never have.

[Intermipants]

23 minutes ago, BasiliskXVIII said:

I think where domination really comes into its own is where you're at perma-dom levels of recharge. Both because the levels of recharge that give you perma-dom are fantastic for cycling your best controls, but also because your endurance is getting filled up every ~90 seconds and you're mez protected full-time, letting you play more like a controlling scrapper than a controller. The high magnitude holds also give you a chance to hold AVs through the purple triangles, so they're handy to have for tough AV fights or against groups who resist your controls normally. 

 

In general, I find Doms way more entertaining in the low levels where a controller's still trying to get their control/buff/debuff suite together, and then they pull ahead again when you get Perma-Dom. They especially shine with those control sets that don't offer much damage because a) you have a whole secondary that's damage and b) domination tends to have more powers to affect with them. I may be biased because I've been on a dom kick lately, but Dominators have clicked with me in a way that controllers never have.

 

Completely agree with this. I tend to think of controllers as the polite, sensible cousin of the rockstar dominator. Once you hit permadom, you can lock down everything in a single cast and never worry about being mezzed again. That’s huge, especially the not being mezzed bit, no more clarion etc.  From there, it’s just swagger in and smash the place up. It’s liberating.

 

After playing my first permadom, I actually found it hard to go back to controllers — they feel a bit too safe and tame in comparison, and I found it really frustrating that I couldn’t control a boss in a single shot.  Where a dom is spectacular and chaotic, a controller is more safety-first. It’s like swapping fireworks for a fire extinguisher.

 

And if you’re really nervous about faceplanting, I’d say an Electric/Psi dom is the safest flavor of control you can run. You’ve got endless AoE lockdown tools, and anything that’s not controlled has no endurance left to mount a counterattack.

[Triumphant]

Never been able to get the hang of Dominators.  I know they can be good (I've been in teams where they're used to great effectiveness).  Something about the play style just doesn't gel with me, for some reason.

 

As for why to play them?  I mean, I think you answered  your own question:  A plant/ma dominator named Broc-Li.  I can't think of a better reason to choose an AT. 😁👍

[MonteCarla]

6 hours ago, Placta said:

The thing that I think helped my doms click was thinking of them as blasters that trade sheer damage for the ability to completely neutralize their foes, from single dangerous enemies at level 1 to whole groups once you pick up an AoE or two.

 

Yeah, this! Before Dominators there were the safer Blasters like Electric or Ice, who have enough mez to hold a tricky opponent long enough to then beat the stuffing out of them.

Dominators just extend that spectrum by trading your damage nuke and some AoE for the control "nukes" that Controllers get.

 

When I run Task Forces, I count the support sets who've joined, and I still kinda think of Dominators as support due tot he fact they'll be neutralising entire groups, and thus greatly increasing team safety. 

[Clave Dark 5]

12 hours ago, BasiliskXVIII said:

...letting you play more like a controlling scrapper than a controller. 

Funnily enough, I've recently had some fun turning a couple of scrappers into Dom-type toons recently based upon how and what I put in their builds (see also the thread about "Support Stalkers"). 

 

Doms are a kind of jack-of-all-trades depending on their power sets in ways Controllers usually aren't* - they can do decent damage without the usual proc crutches, both at range or in melee, do holds/mezzes, etc.    *I haven't run too many Controllers I have to admit, but based on what I've seen anyway.

 

Doms are mainly made to lock everyone down then take them out while they stand by helplessly - you don't need lots of armor for melee if no one can attack you.  Think of a spider - catch the prey in the web, get all wrapped up, then eat at your leisure.   

 

Perma-dom is nice, but you don't even need to have it to to still Dom effectively. 

 

You can find some good info on Dom Strategy on the uh "Dominator Strategy" page from the wiki:  https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dominator_Strategy

[Ukase]

16 hours ago, Triumphant said:

As for why to play them?  I mean, I think you answered  your own question:  A plant/ma dominator named Broc-Li.  I can't think of a better reason to choose an AT. 😁👍

This is probably hitting the nail on the head. I was talking about it with the Justice Superteamers last night. A character literally created out of a stale dad joke. A secondary benefit is just playing something different where I can learn a bit more. 

[EnjoyTheJourney]

My own experience with different ATs was that my original reason for trying and enjoying them usually shifted into something else over time. Not that everybody else's experiences will inevitably match my own, that's clearly not going to be the case. Still, maybe a bit of reflection might help to navigate the journey that's underway for you. 

I've sampled all the ATs, at this point, and gotten at least one level 50 character in most of them. Some ATs got dropped after a few attempts and have never been re-visited since then. Some got dropped, then were re-visited and were enjoyable enough to keep playing them the second (or sometimes third or fourth) time around. Basically, I've found a range of playstyles that I really like and I've found ways to enjoy that playstyle in different ATs. It's still not that easy to articulate after all these years because it's the "feel" of playing a character that makes it work for me (or not); my expectations about how I might enjoy playing a character can still vary widely from how much I do end up enjoying them. 

There are also often "bumps" of enjoyment or lack of enjoyment along the pathway to figuring out whether I like playing a character or not. It's a bit confusing, at times. But, I've learned to ride those out and let enjoyment find its way to my characters or not, while focusing on being in the moment along the way. 

FWIW, YMMV, and all that.

[BasiliskXVIII]

10 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Perma-dom is nice, but you don't even need to have it to to still Dom effectively.

I totally agree with this, but if you're a dominator and you're feeling like Domination is lacklustre, Perma-Dom makes it feel like a whole different beast.