Will Incarnates ever be finished?

[Jaegernault]

Just a general query as to if anyone as heard if the Incarnate System will ever be complete. as I'm sure everyone knows, there were meant to be 10 incarnate powers, we got o 5 and stopped. While some argue that they made you too OP, Id argue they allowed you to be more versatile while giving a purpose to maxing out characters. 

 

That and like many, ive got so many incarnate threads on characters that i cant use or sell it would be nice to make use of them one day!

[Oklahoman]

With extra threads you can buy super inspirations from Luna and sell them on the auction house. I zip the Emps up into Transcendents and hang on to those in case I ever decide to create a new 50, but if I ever need a little extra cash I'll convert some to threads, buy super inspirations, and sell those.

 

I honestly hope they DON'T continue with the incarnate system. I have too many buttons to push already. I think some other servers have taken a stab at it though.

[Psi-bolt]

2 minutes ago, Oklahoman said:

I have too many buttons to push already. I think some other servers have taken a stab at it though.

 

I feel that, but I think we could have more Incarnate abilities that are passives like Alpha and Interface.  I understand the whole theory of having super strong flashy powers that you can only use every so often, but heck I would love moderate boosts that are on all the time.  Even if they were a toggle.   

[Mopery]

Sure, but God-level powers will require God-level opponents, otherwise you're just adding some chariot-blades to your steamroller.

[Psi-bolt]

1 minute ago, Mopery said:

Sure, but God-level powers will require God-level opponents, otherwise you're just adding some chariot-blades to your steamroller.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.  😁

 

Seriously though, I would love the God-tier opponent to go along with them.  

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, Mopery said:

Sure, but God-level powers will require God-level opponents, otherwise you're just adding some chariot-blades to your steamroller.

 

Sorry mom, the mob has spoken!

 

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

I recall reading somewhere that our Devs would like to do more with the Incarnate system but I don't remember where I read it nor when. 

 

I believe the wish is to add some more powers over time but there's a lot of story to develop to make it happen and with a small, part-time team, no matter how dedicated they are, they have serious constraints.

 

 

So... yes, but holding your breath isn't going to do you any favours!

[El D]

I think the second bit is more of a sticking point to introducing any additional Incarnate powers. How 'OP' something is is just reflective of numbers and mechanics, and the devs can add and/or modify those as freely as they wish to engineer greater challenges. The real problem is the sheer amount of stockpiled threads, shards, and components that players have built up over the years entirely negates the 'run content to earn this!' aspect of the system. As is, any new Incarnate powers could be immediately unlocked and maxed out just by logging in. Not on every character or by every player account but by more than enough that it's an instant blitz on the staying power of any expanded options. It also means there's no point to developing additional trial or task force content to earn new powers from as is, because there's no incentive for many of the players with characters able to run it to actually do so. Which just leaves playing the same existing content with even more gonzo abilities, and without a baseline of expanded difficulty there there's no reason for further player powercreep just to give them something to spend horded resources on.

 

None of which to say I'm opposed to new Incarnate stuff. I just think it'll only come after expanded difficulty options (makes existing content more fitting and provides more room for new stuff) and with some kind of requirement on how players can earn it. Possibly 'run X in order to unlock New Shiny' if a new trial or task force is made, though some kind of currency trade in could also be possible. The higher tier the power, the more steep the exchange rate. The only solution I have doubts for is another alternate currency. It'd put everyone on the same playing field starting over again, sure, but that's also the one option basically guaranteed to anger a lot more folks. The exchange rate would at least make all those stockpiled Incarnate components feel like they have some use again.

[Xalon]

Would be great for a full PVP expansion. Highlight base raids and add more to each pvp zone, allow duels anywhere between players, and other stuff. Incarnate pvp - now that could be fun.

[aethereal]

"Never" is a long time.  Who knows, maybe in a few years we'll be able to ask superintelligent AI to create infinite content for CoH including dozens of new arcs leading into the whole Battalion story or whatever it is.

 

But I don't think that the incarnate system will be "finished" in the sort of default forward-looking environment of Homecoming as it stands.

[Ironblade]

5 hours ago, El D said:

The real problem is the sheer amount of stockpiled threads, shards, and components that players have built up over the years entirely negates the 'run content to earn this!' aspect of the system. As is, any new Incarnate powers could be immediately unlocked and maxed out just by logging in.

 

Clearly, then, the solution is to introduce a new currency/salvage type.   😛

Sorry.  I'll show myself out.

[Darmian]

1 hour ago, Ironblade said:

Clearly, then, the solution is to introduce a new currency/salvage type.   😛

Sorry.  I'll show myself out.

You already have the currency. Just be able to buy other stuff with it outside the incarnate powers list. Or something faster than buying and selling super inspirations. Being able to buy the anniversary badges for instance.

Edited Friday at 11:13 PM by Darmian

[JuggernautJ]

2 hours ago, Ironblade said:

 

Clearly, then, the solution is to introduce a new currency/salvage type.   😛

Sorry.  I'll show myself out.

Or, it could be made such that each toon needs to run particular content in order to open a particular new Incarnate Slot.

Then the difficulty would be in opening the slot not acquiring the components to build the new power.

 

If each character had to run (the equivalent of) several 4* Task Forces (or something else significantly difficult and/or time consuming) then the number of toons with the new Incarnate slots would be limited.

It wouldn't necessarily matter how many components each toon had saved up (and please, no new currencies!!).

 

Edited Saturday at 12:12 AM by JuggernautJ

[ThatGuyCDude]

The real question is what would the remaining incarnate slots DO?  We know that there were plans for the one slot to be a ground patch (the slot that would have been 'advanced physical' next to Hybrid, I think it was called Psychic?)  But the real question is, which gaps do Incarnate slots not already cover?

Alpha is a general improvement.
Interface represents Scrappers, applying soft control with attacks.
Judgment represents Blasters, it's a nova.
Destiny represents Defenders, it's a wide buff.
Lore represents Masterminds, it's a pet power.
Hybrid is also a general improvement, targeting roles.

So... what's missing?

• An armor toggle (to represent Tankers).  Instead of a Ground Patch, some selection of pulse auras centered on the character.
• A self-rez (to represent Brutes).  No, Destiny Barrier's team rez does not count.  The slot could vary based on what it does for the character after the rez, paralleling Destiny buffs I suppose.
• A travel power (to represent Stalkers).  It could be some kind of booster toggle that modifies other travel powers (including Sprint/Power Slide), granting additional effects like league-wide stealth, speed, jump height, temporary flight (errr, not that one, considering group flight is such a pain), or what-have-you.
• A snipe (to represent Dominators).
• A control (to represent Controllers, of course).
• A wide debuff (to represent Corruptors), think opposite of the Destiny slot.
• A rotation filler (to represent Sentinels), possibly as a toggle modifier to Brawl.  We were joking about this in an Instanced Rikti Mothership the other day, how an incarnate power could add procs per minute to brawl that do goofy things like Freem (think April Fools when Brawl's effects go crazy).

The capstone, Omega, would simply be a repeat of Alpha, level shift and all.  Double down on your strengths or fill your gaps.  It's also funny, the whole Alpha-Omega equivalency.  As for threats to deal with that extra power, well... just increase the maximum level shift beyond +4.  We've already seen that work in the Labyrinth, being able to set that notoriety anywhere (or shift the enemy ranks up one each like the Labyrinth does) would fit perfectly with more incarnate power.  Endgame zones could also be duplicated as incarnate variants, accessed through Ouroboros, with all their entities to 54-60 and with the assorted Incarnate shifts applied like Mot's Dark Astoria (or with enemy ranks promoted like the Labyrinth of Fog).

[Dogooder]

12 hours ago, Jaegernault said:

Just a general query as to if anyone as heard if the Incarnate System will ever be complete. as I'm sure everyone knows, there were meant to be 10 incarnate powers, we got o 5 and stopped. While some argue that they made you too OP, Id argue they allowed you to be more versatile while giving a purpose to maxing out characters. 

 

That and like many, ive got so many incarnate threads on characters that i cant use or sell it would be nice to make use of them one day!

I was just thinking I'd love to see a Psionic Judgement Power. And I'd love to see G (Goverment) Men and Women (in suits or government garb) Lore Pets. More Incarnate options please!

[Ukase]

So, I'm sure I'm in the minority, but before they even consider new incarnate powers, or adding options to the ones we have - what about bridging the gap between the math wizards and the the rest of us? 

I was playing an EM/EA scrapper. And I learned there was math and timing involved in playing it well. To me - that divide between just button mashing and playing a character at a high level is just too great of a divide. Something should be done to close the gap at least a little bit. I'm already slightly better than mediocre when playing a blaster. I don't want to play a scrapper and do math to be better than mediocre. Now, that is a "me" problem, but that's not just me that has it. 

There's a lot of intangible little things that HC could and should pay attention to before they look at the incarnate evolution. 

 

But, hey, that's just my opinion. 

[tidge]

Betteridge has the answer.

[Snarky]

On 8/29/2025 at 7:27 AM, Psi-bolt said:

 

I feel that, but I think we could have more Incarnate abilities that are passives like Alpha and Interface.  I understand the whole theory of having super strong flashy powers that you can only use every so often, but heck I would love moderate boosts that are on all the time.  Even if they were a toggle.   

A second Alpha would be epic. But really OP for normal content. Especially if you take two +damage Alphas.  I normally take intuition on my Dark Corr, i would struggle to choose between more juicy damage and a much needed power to help with Dark’s Endurance issues…. First world problems 😆 

[Jiro Ito]

Genesis was coming next, and the basic concept for the slot was creating “patches” or fields that buffed allies and debuffed foes. The Core branches of Genesis powers would get larger areas of effect, while the Radius branches would let you make up to 4 small patches at once at the very rare level. Imagine Sleet or Tar Patch + Accelerate Metabolism or Regeneration Aura + Incarnate-worthy, and you’re on the right track.

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted#4

 

 

In the 2013 Ask Me Anything ("Loregasm"), further powers were discussed.

Q: Do you have any insight as to what the Omega Incarnate slot might be? The others seemed badass enough already. PBAOE kill everything?

A: Jeff Hamilton would know. I don't remember if this was Omega or not, but I know one of the latter tiers did allow you to nuke minions through your magnificence. There were also abilities that let you trade off one stat for another. (HOSUN)

A: I've said this in a couple places but the primary trees which had been sketched out on paper were Arete (instant recharge on all powers for a period), Majesty (cause foes to instantly fight for you and then self-destruct), Infinity (summon dopplegangers of yourself), Transcendence (immune to everything and can attack into Phase), and Fulfilment (major PBAOE +Level Shifts).

Edited Saturday at 06:44 PM by Jiro Ito

[FupDup]

The HC team is very very squeamish when it comes to "power creep" so the chances of adding additional tiers on top of what we have now (vertical expansion) are like -420%. 

 

The only hope we've got is for a "horizontal expansion" that just adds more powers to the existing tiers, and there's certainly a lot of holes left to plug up in that regard. Like toxic and psi judgements, cold interface, a bunch of extra lore factions, etc. We could maybe even take it a step further and use a substitution system of sorts, like maybe you could replace your judgement power with one of those genesis buff patches so it's a tradeoff instead of a pure power gain. 

 

Even that has a pretty low chance, but at least it's not in the negative range like pure vertical scaling. 

Edited Saturday at 07:50 PM by FupDup

[MTeague]

Remember that the Homecoming devs are in no way bound by the unfinished plans of the Live Devs. 

It is possible that the Homecoming Devs may already consider Incarnates to be finished, as is, with no intent to add any more, ever. 

Or they may plan to go the full distance, someday. I have seen no official word on the matter. 

 

I am sure that there's no upside to them saying "yea, it's on the list".

Because then the fan base will ask "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" even more than we already do. 

[Snarky]

7 hours ago, Ukase said:

So, I'm sure I'm in the minority, but before they even consider new incarnate powers, or adding options to the ones we have - what about bridging the gap between the math wizards and the the rest of us? 

I was playing an EM/EA scrapper. And I learned there was math and timing involved in playing it well. To me - that divide between just button mashing and playing a character at a high level is just too great of a divide. Something should be done to close the gap at least a little bit. I'm already slightly better than mediocre when playing a blaster. I don't want to play a scrapper and do math to be better than mediocre. Now, that is a "me" problem, but that's not just me that has it. 

There's a lot of intangible little things that HC could and should pay attention to before they look at the incarnate evolution. 

 

But, hey, that's just my opinion. 

You want Homecoming to tutor you in Mathematics?

[Jacke]

On 8/29/2025 at 8:18 AM, Oklahoman said:

I honestly hope they DON'T continue with the incarnate system. I have too many buttons to push already. I think some other servers have taken a stab at it though.

 

I agree.  I've got 6 Trays in a Stack on the lower-right of my UI.  And I use my Commands Popmenu so I don't need common Click Powers in the Trays.  And those Trays are already packed by L50.  Adding even 1 more Power that I'd need to Click or Toggle on would be a pain.

 

On 8/29/2025 at 8:32 AM, Mopery said:

Sure, but God-level powers will require God-level opponents, otherwise you're just adding some chariot-blades to your steamroller.

 

1 hour ago, FupDup said:

The HC team is very very squeamish when it comes to "power creep" so the chances of adding additional tiers on top of what we have now (vertical expansion) are like -420%. 

 

I've heard that the current Incarnate Powers won't get new ones added until Toons have to face much stronger opponents.

 

I do think that the current Incarnate Powers need some sort of rebalance, especially in the details of the crafting.  But even that is a major undertaking.  I would think that would be done before adding new Incarnate Powers.

 

 

[Techwright]

On 8/29/2025 at 10:18 AM, Oklahoman said:

With extra threads you can buy super inspirations from Luna and sell them on the auction house. I zip the Emps up into Transcendents and hang on to those in case I ever decide to create a new 50, but if I ever need a little extra cash I'll convert some to threads, buy super inspirations, and sell those.

 

I've just taken to starting additional Lore pets, Judgements, etc. to allow myself a bit of experimental variety with my favorite 50s.  The ones whose bio write-up gives a natural affinity to robots particularly benefit from being able to swap between multiple Lore robot types.

[bAss_ackwards]

One of the remaining Incarnate powers would build a small cottage.