An Update from The Homecoming Team

[Ohioknight]

On 8/7/2019 at 9:22 PM, xailadrell said:

As a question, if negotiations go tits up and they decide to protect the IP, what happens?

Exactly what would have happened if there had been no negotiations at all and they decide to protect the IP.

[Freedom Frank]

1 hour ago, Omega-202 said:

Good for them to find out player count to help calculate damages.  Or get information regarding who is hosting the servers so they can pursue them for damages because they have deeper pockets than the HC team.  Or to findout who their contractor was at Paragon who handed over the stolen IP.  

 

There's a ton of info that they could gain under the pretense of a negotiation that's not readily available.  And for the stuff that can "be gotten legally of their own volition", why bother when you can accept an offer to "chat" by the guilty parties and let them hand you said information.  Do you think investigations of this kind are cheap and quick?  Like you said, the servers were underground and unknown for 7 years.  Better to fi d out from the horse's mouth what other secrets there might be, especially if the horse asked to speak with you.

 

In regards to "foaming at the mouth" to hand out a C&D: how fast do you think legal departments work?  Especially if corporate is debating how to best handle the situation and they didn't have names, addresses or contacts to properly serve said C&D.  Do you really think the legal department caught wind of this in late April and dropped everything to work on shutting down a pirate server for a 15 year old game?  It's been 3 months.  Their docket is probably 6-12 months deep with shit to do.  

 

This may all shake out.  Maybe you're right.  But I'd put money on this going south.  I'm done debating this, see you all on the other side.

A. Player count is publicly available information.

B. Server info is found out when sending the C&D letter, as already pointed out.

C. What on God's green earth makes you think that information was ever on the table? Hell, we don't even know HOW the code got leaked, and I don't know that the HC admins have that information either.

 

And why bother?  Because it wastes a LOT less time.  A C&D is over in a matter of weeks, it's been months.  Why would NCSoft get information they could legally obtain through faster methods through a long and drawn out fake negotiation?  None of what you're saying makes any sense whatsoever.

[reconfigureyourface]

2 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

Good for them to find out player count to help calculate damages.  Or get information regarding who is hosting the servers so they can pursue them for damages because they have deeper pockets than the HC team.  Or to findout who their contractor was at Paragon who handed over the stolen IP.  

 

There's a ton of info that they could gain under the pretense of a negotiation that's not readily available.  And for the stuff that can "be gotten legally of their own volition", why bother when you can accept an offer to "chat" by the guilty parties and let them hand you said information.  Do you think investigations of this kind are cheap and quick?  Like you said, the servers were underground and unknown for 7 years.  Better to fi d out from the horse's mouth what other secrets there might be, especially if the horse asked to speak with you.

 

In regards to "foaming at the mouth" to hand out a C&D: how fast do you think legal departments work?  Especially if corporate is debating how to best handle the situation and they didn't have names, addresses or contacts to properly serve said C&D.  Do you really think the legal department caught wind of this in late April and dropped everything to work on shutting down a pirate server for a 15 year old game?  It's been 3 months.  Their docket is probably 6-12 months deep with shit to do.  

 

This may all shake out.  Maybe you're right.  But I'd put money on this going south.  I'm done debating this, see you all on the other side.

Yes, please leave the thread, take a nice breather and don't forget to take your CoX Borne spy conspiracy with you.

 

Maybe be HAPPY they are trying to be legitimate, you said yourself you love the game.

 

Jesus, were you not hugged enough as a child? Who hurt you? 

Edited August 10, 2019 by reconfigureyourface

[DarschPugs]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:56 PM, TonyV said:

Quick note of clarification: The Titan Network and Homecoming are working together. I think you guys are thinking of City of Titans, which is the successor project. The Titan Network isn't affiliated with City of Titans. We're the Paragon Wiki folks, they're the folks who are working on a new game. 😉

 

City of Titans is not involved in this effort.

cool, i always thought for some reason City of Titans was a project by the titan network. Always been a fan of the work Titan Network has done for the community over the years.

[DarschPugs]

1 hour ago, Freedom Frank said:

A. Player count is publicly available information.

B. Server info is found out when sending the C&D letter, as already pointed out.

C. What on God's green earth makes you think that information was ever on the table? Hell, we don't even know HOW the code got leaked, and I don't know that the HC admins have that information either.

 

And why bother?  Because it wastes a LOT less time.  A C&D is over in a matter of weeks, it's been months.  Why would NCSoft get information they could legally obtain through faster methods through a long and drawn out fake negotiation?  None of what you're saying makes any sense whatsoever.

nevermind the fact that homecoming was allowed to actually speak about the negotiatians, Titan network has been negotiating for years for this. Just more doom and gloom spread by the 4chan server and their tin foil hat god brain.

[DarschPugs]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:59 PM, MoggieCanada said:

I would not have a problem with a subscription model. Anything else, particularly a model similar to Star Trek Online or Champions Online would be something I'm not on board with.

I doubt we will ever see a sub model, that defeats the purpose of homecoming registering as a nonprofit like the SWGEmu team did when they were given the okay to emulate preCU SWG.

[DarschPugs]

On 8/7/2019 at 10:47 PM, Abraxus said:

First, folks have really got to stop speculating on this from the perspective of what they supposedly know.  The honest truth is, we know nothing about what is being discussed.  We got people ready to bail, and take their friends with them on the mere mention of this, without even knowing what it really means.  They are free to do so, but it would seem a little premature based on what we know so far.  There are those that have projected the scenarios they see possible, based on this announcement.  But, there are very likely possibilities that we can't imagine, because we don't have enough information to do so.  To assume that one knows for fact what will happen at this juncture, is presumptuous at best.

 

I was there for all the "Task Force Hail Mary", and "New Efforts" scenarios at Titan.  I checked the site every day for years looking for something, so I was a bit concerned too.  However, the fact that they were even able to say that things were looking very positive in this case, is more than we ever heard about those previous rounds of talks; which were so secret, we couldn't even know when they failed. 

 

I don't like the circumstances under which NCSoft closed down the game in 2012, and I was shocked to learn about the SCORE server that ran while I was pining away for the game.  But, what I don't do is hold grudges regardless of what has passed since then.  Life is too short.  So, I'll wait, and watch for more news, assuming good intent, until or unless I hear otherwise. 

 

In the meantime, I shall play the game!

imagine if you would the secret server was all a long test server to show this could be done with out ncsoft spending a dime, has been part of the on going titan network negotiations for the last 6-7 years, and homecoming was the next step in the negotiations to see if this can be done without making ncsoft look bad. I'm not saying its all connected, but it very well could all be connected.

[Widower]

Just now, DarschPugs said:

imagine if you would the secret server was all a long test server to show this could be done with out ncsoft spending a dime, has been part of the on going titan network negotiations for the last 6-7 years, and homecoming was the next step in the negotiations to see if this can be done without making ncsoft look bad. I'm not saying its all connected, but it very well could all be connected.

While I would be incredibly amused if the Leakening was a massive false-flag operation, Titan Network has not been negotiating for 6-7 years. Titan has been negotiating since April. Previous attempts were not Titan. It's not all connected.

[GM Fiddleback]

12 minutes ago, DarschPugs said:

imagine if you would the secret server was all a long test server to show this could be done with out ncsoft spending a dime, has been part of the on going titan network negotiations for the last 6-7 years, and homecoming was the next step in the negotiations to see if this can be done without making ncsoft look bad. I'm not saying its all connected, but it very well could all be connected.

I'm not saying it's aliens, but...

[Lunchmoney]

10 hours ago, Murcielago said:

Download your characters and start your own local private server.

As easy as that.

[Remidi]

1 hour ago, GM Fiddleback said:

I'm not saying it's aliens, but...

 

[Moosejaw]

On 8/8/2019 at 3:59 PM, JCMcBoo said:

What color are your eyes?

Blue

[Yoru-hime]

4 hours ago, Remidi said:

 

I suddenly understand! It all makes purrfect sense now.

[Myrmidon]

7 hours ago, DarschPugs said:

I doubt we will ever see a sub model, that defeats the purpose of homecoming registering as a nonprofit like the SWGEmu team did when they were given the okay to emulate preCU SWG.

 

So, there is precedent for this type of thing. Excellent.

[GM Capocollo]

10 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

Good for them to find out player count to help calculate damages.  Or get information regarding who is hosting the servers so they can pursue them for damages because they have deeper pockets than the HC team.  Or to findout who their contractor was at Paragon who handed over the stolen IP.  

 

There's a ton of info that they could gain under the pretense of a negotiation that's not readily available.  And for the stuff that can "be gotten legally of their own volition", why bother when you can accept an offer to "chat" by the guilty parties and let them hand you said information.  Do you think investigations of this kind are cheap and quick?  Like you said, the servers were underground and unknown for 7 years.  Better to fi d out from the horse's mouth what other secrets there might be, especially if the horse asked to speak with you.

 

In regards to "foaming at the mouth" to hand out a C&D: how fast do you think legal departments work?  Especially if corporate is debating how to best handle the situation and they didn't have names, addresses or contacts to properly serve said C&D.  Do you really think the legal department caught wind of this in late April and dropped everything to work on shutting down a pirate server for a 15 year old game?  It's been 3 months.  Their docket is probably 6-12 months deep with shit to do.  

 

This may all shake out.  Maybe you're right.  But I'd put money on this going south.  I'm done debating this, see you all on the other side.

The fundamental basis of this theory (that NCsoft is engaging in bad faith negotiation to get the contact info and incriminating evidence necessary to start C&Ds and lawsuits) doesn’t make sense to me because all of this information you believe NCsoft could only get from closed-door talks is available publicly on this very website.

 

Every month the admins have posted the receipts from their hosting company, who is OVH.  Anyone could confirm that the NA servers are in the Montreal data center, and OVH is aware of Homecoming because they’ve been working closely with HC on trying to fix routing issues.  Concurrent player stats are published and graphed in multiple public places. The name and registered state of the LLC have been mentioned here multiple times. Most critically, if they were desperate to find out who originally passed along the code, they would do that by filing a lawsuit and demanding that info from a witness under oath in a deposition, and not just hope it slips during friendly talks.
 

I don’t think that NCsoft is simultaneously underhanded yet hapless enough that they’d go through the whole rigamarole of pretending to negotiate just so they can get information that anyone could get from thirty seconds on these forums and a traceroute. 

[Murcielago]

Generally speaking what goes on in a negotiation like this? 

[EggKookoo]

32 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

Generally speaking what goes on in a negotiation like this? 

Duh. They form a Task Force. The "negotiations" are really just deciding who's going to tank.

[Skyhawke]

[Abraxus]

The folks who believe this is all a nefarious plot on the part of anyone involved in these talks, are gonna think that, and nothing anyone says, or shows to the contrary is going to change their minds.  If things go well, they will still be skeptical, thinking the bottom will fall out at any moment.  If it falls through, they will say they knew it all along, and likewise be ready to run for the hills.

 

For the rest of us, we will wait, watch, and react according to what we hear from the team, rather than out of pessimistic speculation, and we will just keep playing the game we love.  It's really as simple as that. 😎

 

[Blood Speaker]

1 hour ago, Abraxus said:

The folks who believe this is all a nefarious plot on the part of anyone involved in these talks, are gonna think that, and nothing anyone says, or shows to the contrary is going to change their minds.  If things go well, they will still be skeptical, thinking the bottom will fall out at any moment.  If it falls through, they will say they knew it all along, and likewise be ready to run for the hills.

 

For the rest of us, we will wait, watch, and react according to what we hear from the team, rather than out of pessimistic speculation, and we will just keep playing the game we love.  It's really as simple as that. 😎

 

Stop talking sense. It has no place, here.  :p

[Abraxus]

4 minutes ago, Blood Speaker said:

Stop talking sense. It has no place, here.  😛

Oddly enough, I've been told that before...in this very thread...by a Dev no less! 😆

[Skyhawke]

1 hour ago, Abraxus said:

Oddly enough, I've been told that before...in this very thread...by a Dev no less! 😆

The real question is: Why would you bring sense even near the internet?  Are you trying to get it killed? 😬

[William Valence]

Out of curiosity, when all is said and done, should everything go perfectly, is this going to be something that is part of assets owned by and individual or will there be an organization set up to maintain it?

 

I don't know how things are already structured, if @TonyV is the owner of Titan network, or just the head of the org "Titan Network" or if @Leandro is the owner of CoX Homecoming or just the head of a nonprofit that's responsible for Homecoming. Will things be structured to be in a ways that are fluid and can survive individuals leaving or being removed (as long as the org remains), and how much control will individuals have over the whole project? Will the community be a part of the running of the project, and if so what will be their input?

[Ohioknight]

13 hours ago, DarschPugs said:

cool, i always thought for some reason City of Titans was a project by the titan network. Always been a fan of the work Titan Network has done for the community over the years.

Tons of people operate under that misunderstanding -- It was probably an unfortunate choice that that branch of "Project Phoenix" "Missing World's Media" chose to name their game "City of Titans" which, I imagine, was in homage to Titan Network where they originally organized via the chat boards.   But there's never been an actual connection between the organizations other than the fact that a lot of CoT people have chatted on Titan Network CoH boards at some point.

[Ohioknight]

8 minutes ago, William Valence said:

Out of curiosity, when all is said and done, should everything go perfectly, is this going to be something that is part of assets owned by and individual or will there be an organization set up to maintain it?

 

I don't know how things are already structured, if @TonyV is the owner of Titan network, or just the head of the org "Titan Network" or if @Leandro is the owner of CoX Homecoming or just the head of a nonprofit that's responsible for Homecoming. Will things be structured to be in a ways that are fluid and can survive individuals leaving or being removed (as long as the org remains), and how much control will individuals have over the whole project? Will the community be a part of the running of the project, and if so what will be their input?

As I understand it, Leandro very deliberately has no actual connection to Homecoming aside from offering volunteer support and advice as he has for everybody setting up a private server (and as he did for years for other players and interested hobbyists during and after Live).  Leandro is a very bright guy who lives in Argentina.  I understand that Argentina is not signatory to a number of international IP agreements and I SUSPECT that this is the reason he made himself the point man for the secret private server as opposed to others who live in EU or US or wherever.  I would GUESS that he is still running his own game. 

 

If I'm behind the times and have missed some news that refuted the above, please correct me.