Pylon Damage Thread

[nihilii]

13 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Check out the Bug Forum for a report I put up about Degenerative Interface. There is something buggy with it, and it's likely skewing any Pylon results for characters using it. I haven't had time to test it out with Brawl/Boxing to figure out the exact details, and a Scrapper isn't putting out 14 different sources of damage like my Ill/Storm, so it's not going to be as ridiculous as it is for me, but it's still likely making a big difference.

I used a Power Analyzer on my fire/rad/psi Sentinel to check this just now. Every attack she has is 1.32s or under, so she's likely close to the highest possible number of stacks you can throw on a petless character.

 

Average -maxHP was -3900 (which fits with expected value against 30677 Pylon HP = ~12.5%). There was ONE spike of -4900 for a moment, but it was gone as soon as it happened.

1 hour ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

is there a test server that still exists where I can play about?

Rejoice, for your testing needs shall be met 😉 https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/57-homecoming-beta/

 

 

[Coyote]

23 minutes ago, nihilii said:

I used a Power Analyzer on my fire/rad/psi Sentinel to check this just now. Every attack she has is 1.32s or under, so she's likely close to the highest possible number of stacks you can throw on a petless character.

 

Average -maxHP was -3900 (which fits with expected value against 30677 Pylon HP = ~12.5%). There was ONE spike of -4900 for a moment, but it was gone as soon as it happened.

Rejoice, for your testing needs shall be met 😉 https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/57-homecoming-beta/

 

 

 

Do you mind if I post your results in the bug forum thread? I haven't had time to go testing how the proc builds up without pets, but in any case I couldn't do it better than this since I'd just be trying to survive while using Boxing/Brawl to see how high it can stack.

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

8 hours ago, nihilii said:

2 quick runs on my MA/SD (MANY thanks to @Duck-Smokes-Quack)

 

Musc T3, Degen T3, Assault T3

EC -> SK -> CAK -> SK. BU replaces the second Storm Kick whenever up

Critical Strikes set in EC
Heca + ToD proc in SK
Achilles Heel + ToD proc + Mako proc in CAK

Gaussian in BU

 

Hybrid active

1:47 = 486 DPS

without Hybrid

2:17 = 407 DPS (got KBed once due to forgetting Active Defense)

Superb damage, by my standards anyway, for a relatively light on procs build that doesn't have to use Ageless. 🙂

So I did some more testing. I booted up the beta server and ported my toon over. I played around with some attack chains (including copying your exact IOs and attack chain)
No good.

So i decided to recreate your exact build you linked previously (thanks @NobleKangaroo for the amazing in game menu that makes this SO easy to do)

I have checked and double checked everything is exactly as your mids buils shows but the in game defenses arent at softcap?

• Melee: 43.99%
• Range: 41.27%
• AOE: 43.14%

No idea why ... is this a mids/test server bug? I assume your toon is at softcap in game on live server ... Was not expecting to find this but thought I would bring it up!

 

Anyway as for the DPS ... I am using your exact build and attack chain and I cannot get anywhere the 1:47 time you posted (I cant even get to the 2:17 time you posted which you said you didnt even hybrid for!)

 

I am not trying to question your results or your honesty but the numbers just dont make any sense (maybe you meant 147 seconds rather than 1:47? idk) Would you be able to run again and verify your results?
It was either a fluke 1/1mil run full of crits or I am badly missing something here.

Also double check you are actually at the Def softcap in game for M/R/AoE - because according to the test server you arent 😣

 

 

-EDIT-

Or its quite possible the bug that @Coyote submitted really is causing all of these issues. Certainly very interesting to see ... It could well mean every single previous submission using Degenerative is possibly invalid ...

This must be the reason you got that crazy 1:47 time



Ignore my BS about not being at the softcap (i had the steadfast KB IO in rather than the dam 3% def ....)
 

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Duck-Smokes-Quack

[nihilii]

I don't see Degen as an issue without pets. It's more likely to me the 1:47 run was lucky. On such short runs and on a powerset so reliant on hits, variance can be meaningful.

Yesterday I've had another 2:08 run without activating Hybrid.

Then just now, 2 Hybrid active runs ending at 2:28.

Incidentally, the second of these Hybrid active runs was about to hit 1:50 until:

- I got KBed

- missed an Eagle's Claw

- Hasten and Hybrid dropped as a result

There's a bit of cascading failure that can occur there (or cascading "success" the other way around).

You might have noticed with the build copy that endurance is very tight without Conserve Power, but not unbearably so. That's another randomness factor for a Pylon run. If Panacea and the 2 Perf Shifter decide to proc a lot, CP sits unused. That's another second and a half saved.

Whether I choose to click Active Defense or not is also another 2 seconds shaved off. But with the risk of getting KBed and losing more. In actual gameplay AD could have to be spammed.

Real DPS for this character is much more likely around 380 than 480. 🙂

Edited February 29, 2020 by nihilii

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

38 minutes ago, nihilii said:

esterday I've had another 2:08 run without activating Hybrid.

Then just now, 2 Hybrid active runs ending at 2:28.

So you are still using EC>SK>CAK>SK ?
Using Focus Chi on cool down replacing it with the 2nd EC?
Would it not be better to FC > EC > CAK to take advantage of the big damage boost and crits?

 

Refreshing AD when it expires? Or are you "risking it" and letting it run dry completley?
I assume you are also refreshing Hasten on cooldown to?


Could you also list the exact incarnates you are using as well please? 


 

[nihilii]

I am still using EC SK CAK SK, Focus Chi replaces the second SK.

Using EC -> CAK after BU would mess your attack chain afterwards, I think. You'd have SK, then... wait wait wait. Gaussian BU should last long enough for EC + SK + CAK anyway.

With AD I sometimes risk it and sometimes I don't. Hasten I just click the moment it's up.

Exact Incarnates are:

- Musculature Total Core Revamp
- Degenerative Total Core Conversion

- Assault Radial Embodiment

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

I am still using EC SK CAK SK, Focus Chi replaces the second SK.

Using EC -> CAK after BU would mess your attack chain afterwards, I think. You'd have SK, then... wait wait wait. Gaussian BU should last long enough for EC + SK + CAK anyway.

With AD I sometimes risk it and sometimes I don't. Hasten I just click the moment it's up.

Exact Incarnates are:

- Musculature Total Core Revamp
- Degenerative Total Core Conversion

- Assault Radial Embodiment

Ok so I managed to get  2:26 time using your build with Assault on (still nowhere near the crazy 1:47 you got, i really think that was a 1 in a million run at this point) but I am happy that I got somewhere near your numbers! Finally.

 

 

I copied your incarnates on my MA/SR and used CAK>SK>CS>SK. Got a bang average time in line with the others proving the Incarnates are not the source of the difference.
I did however notice that I was missing ... a lot. Frustratingly on SK (where my Crit proc lives) which must be hurting my times,.

I decide to play about with the location of the Crit Proc and moved it to CS and re ran with the same chain ... Didn't work, times still basically the same.

 

Then I tried running EC>SK>CAK>SK as you do with the Crit Proc in SK and got some of my slowest times to date (suggesting the CAK>SK>CS>SK is the superior chain) 

I reran again with the Crit Proc moved to EC (as you have it) and ran EC>SK>CAK>SK. I got a marked improvement on the previous times with this chain. but it certainly wasnt outright better than CAK>SK>CS>SK

 

 

I am frustratingly about to go on holiday for a week and will be AFK so no more testing ... ☹️... For now

 

 

Silly question (which I assume the anwers is no having seen your end issues first hand and knowing just how much bloody end the MA/ chain uses) you arent using Tactics during the fight are you?

 

Having said all of that I think I am now finally "happy". There is a Dam+ difference in mids in our builds of 20% (caused by AAO ... a power I am now so very jelous of a an /SR user ... it buffs your dam, debuffs enemy damage and is a taunt aura ... on a scrapper ... im not jelous ... 🤐)

 

Now based on my PB time of 2:40 and your times which seem mostly to range from 2:00-2:20 mark (ignoring your PB) which is about bang on 20%.


I am still not convinced either way about the best attack chain:

• CAK>SK>CS>SK
  vs
• EC>SK>CAK>SK

The crit proc in EC seems to help a lot, maybe by the time I get back someone may have already answered this (please god I hope someone does)

Would love to be able to cram assault into my build to help mitigage slightly the power of AAO but its already so tight i doubt I can.]

 

 

Closing points:

• Get +dam into your build its REALLY matters
• Martial Arts is way better than everyone thinks
• /SD is cleary better than /SR in almost every way (apart from DDR and the +20% rech, but the latter is easily mitigated with sets) but I still love SR

 

Thanks @nihilii for help and patience, this is the first time ive ever tried to cut my teeth with Pylon DPS testing and set comparison and I have to say ... I have a taste for it now mwhahahahah

 

 

 

[Haijinx]

400 is really good.

 

The ma/bio time listed early in this thread was mid 400's 

 

Using Eagles Claw for crit bonus.  

[Camel]

4 hours ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

Ok so I managed to get  2:26 time using your build with Assault on (still nowhere near the crazy 1:47 you got, i really think that was a 1 in a million run at this point) but I am happy that I got somewhere near your numbers! Finally.

 

 

I copied your incarnates on my MA/SR and used CAK>SK>CS>SK. Got a bang average time in line with the others proving the Incarnates are not the source of the difference.
I did however notice that I was missing ... a lot. Frustratingly on SK (where my Crit proc lives) which must be hurting my times,.

I decide to play about with the location of the Crit Proc and moved it to CS and re ran with the same chain ... Didn't work, times still basically the same.

 

Then I tried running EC>SK>CAK>SK as you do with the Crit Proc in SK and got some of my slowest times to date (suggesting the CAK>SK>CS>SK is the superior chain) 

I reran again with the Crit Proc moved to EC (as you have it) and ran EC>SK>CAK>SK. I got a marked improvement on the previous times with this chain. but it certainly wasnt outright better than CAK>SK>CS>SK

 

 

I am frustratingly about to go on holiday for a week and will be AFK so no more testing ... ☹️... For now

 

 

Silly question (which I assume the anwers is no having seen your end issues first hand and knowing just how much bloody end the MA/ chain uses) you arent using Tactics during the fight are you?

 

Having said all of that I think I am now finally "happy". There is a Dam+ difference in mids in our builds of 20% (caused by AAO ... a power I am now so very jelous of a an /SR user ... it buffs your dam, debuffs enemy damage and is a taunt aura ... on a scrapper ... im not jelous ... 🤐)

 

Now based on my PB time of 2:40 and your times which seem mostly to range from 2:00-2:20 mark (ignoring your PB) which is about bang on 20%.


I am still not convinced either way about the best attack chain:

• CAK>SK>CS>SK
  vs
• EC>SK>CAK>SK

The crit proc in EC seems to help a lot, maybe by the time I get back someone may have already answered this (please god I hope someone does)

Would love to be able to cram assault into my build to help mitigage slightly the power of AAO but its already so tight i doubt I can.]

 

 

Closing points:

• Get +dam into your build its REALLY matters
• Martial Arts is way better than everyone thinks
• /SD is cleary better than /SR in almost every way (apart from DDR and the +20% rech, but the latter is easily mitigated with sets) but I still love SR

 

Thanks @nihilii for help and patience, this is the first time ive ever tried to cut my teeth with Pylon DPS testing and set comparison and I have to say ... I have a taste for it now mwhahahahah

 

 

 

How much DDR does Super Reflexes have? Because my Shield Scrapper has over 70% with double stacked Active Defenses.

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

6 hours ago, cazden121 said:

How much DDR does Super Reflexes have? Because my Shield Scrapper has over 70% with double stacked Active Defenses.

/SR gets the cap of 95%

 

I litterally never have to worry about defence

It never ever ever goes down

 

[Microcosm]

Shouldn't underestimate the value of the +recharge. Yes, you can use sets to get recharge on other builds, but you can also use sets to get +dam on that Sr. There are also power sets (hello, db) where it's really hard to get the requisite recharge without that extra 20%.

[Camel]

8 hours ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

/SR gets the cap of 95%

 

I litterally never have to worry about defence

It never ever ever goes down

 

Nice, I can almost say the same about my Dark/Shield Scrapper. But on +4 ITFs it can get hairy if they get a few pot shots on me in a row. Especially when the Kheldians ignore aggro cap and dogpile you.

 

Still rarely dies though. 😅

Edited March 1, 2020 by cazden121

[Frosticus]

13 hours ago, cazden121 said:

Nice, I can almost say the same about my Dark/Shield Scrapper. But on +4 ITFs it can get hairy if they get a few pot shots on me in a row. Especially when the Kheldians ignore aggro cap and dogpile you.

 

Still rarely dies though. 😅

I used radial ageless on my sav/shield stalker. Takes your 71% and puts you at 91-95% ddr. It was essential for a no insp/temp/lore solo 4x8 itf. 

 

barrier works well for shield too but requires a bit more mindful monitoring when facing debuffers.

[Arkterusss]

Greetings from Germany!  Long time lurker, first time poster. 

 

I had wanted to try out Claws, on Stalker, after hearing it's supposed to be super shiddy because it doesn't have Follow-Up.  I figured replacing FU with AS is a pretty good trade.

Right now he has T3 Muscles and Reactive, and just got his T4 Assault (+Damage on Hit), so this can probably be approved a little bit.  I tried a lot of different chains and moving Sets around to compensate, but I found that Slash - Swipe - AS - Focus to be the one that netted me the best times.

 

Should be about 1:56

 

 

[doyler]

Plant/Fire Dominator
----------------------------------
T4 Musculature Core
T4 Reactive Radial
T4 Ageless Core
T4 Assault Radial (off)
 

Blaze - Incinerate - Blazing Bolt - Blaze - Incinerate - Flares

 

Apoc and GJ in Blaze
Hecatomb in Incinerate
Achilles and Annihilation in Sleet

 

Three total runs (2:13, 2:05, and 2:03) for a best DPS of 439.585. This was way higher than I expected, and I've never really played Plant on a Dominator before. I'd love to remove Flares from the chain entirely, but not sure if I could do that without some sacrifices.

 

This toon was designed to handle general PvE, but especially useful accolade hunting (hence Plant for Roots).

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by doyler

[Zeraphia]

Rad/TW Tanker (no actual help from the epic/patron pools at all)

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Secondary Power Set: Titan Weapons
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(5), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(7), UnbGrd-Max HP%(11), ImpArm-ResPsi(19)
Level 1: Defensive Sweep -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 2: Gamma Boost -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(3), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(3)
Level 4: Proton Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(11), ImpArm-ResPsi(17)
Level 6: Fallout Shelter -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(15), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(15), ImpArm-ResPsi(17)
Level 8: Radiation Therapy -- ScrDrv-Dam%(A), TchoftheN-%Dam(29), Obl-%Dam(48), Erd-%Dam(29), Arm-Dam%(31)
Level 10: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Beta Decay -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(19), Ags-Psi/Status(21), ImpArm-ResPsi(23)
Level 16: Weave -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Rct-ResDam%(21), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31), ShlWal-Def(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(33), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(23), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(25), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Prv-Heal/Rchg(27), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(27)
Level 20: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(34), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(34), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(37), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(39)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 26: Ground Zero -- HO:Nucle(A), ScrDrv-Dam%(46), Erd-%Dam(46), Obl-%Dam(50), TchofLadG-%Dam(50)
Level 28: Crushing Blow -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(42)
Level 30: Rend Armor -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(40), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(40), AchHee-ResDeb%(42)
Level 32: Follow Through -- SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(43), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(43), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 35: Whirling Smash -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(36), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Arc of Destruction -- Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Arm-Dmg(40), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(46), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Arm-Acc/Rchg(48), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(50)
Level 41: Taunt -- Range-I(A)
Level 44: Build Momentum -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 47: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 49: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 1: Momentum 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally 
Level 50: Barrier Radial Epiphany 
------------

 

Pylon Time: 3:42... 300 DPS on the dot. 

Considering this caps every single resistance sans Cold... and can easily push more DPS with lore... I'm extraordinarily impressed. Should note that with this build, it is totally unoptimized from Pylon killing, it is 100% optimized to outright nuke mobs in PvE content. There are tons of ways to get this time even higher, you could take assault, you could add more procs into any of these melee hits, etc.

Edited March 8, 2020 by 33053222

[Obitus]

Elec/SS Tanker:

 

Spoiler

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Initial test conditions: T4 Musculature Core, T4 Assault Radial Hybrid, T3 Reactive Radial, no Destiny/Lore, no Fury of the Gladiator proc.

• 192 seconds for 327.5 DPS
• 181 seconds for 339.6 DPS

Next test: Same Incarnates, added Fury of the Gladiator Proc to Cross Punch:

• 156 seconds for 373.6 DPS

Next, swapped in T4 Reactive and T3 Ageless Core:

• 151 seconds for 381 DPS

(NB: In order to reach these numbers, I did wait to stack Rage before engaging the Pylon.)

 

At some point I'll grind out a T4 Ageless Destiny to test more thoroughly; my results on the test server showed a fairly significant gain from the extra recharge, which helps to smooth the gaps in my janky attack chain, which relies on inconsistent Force Feedback procs.  The extra endurance is also helpful in a protracted single-target scenario, but in normal content, the Performance Shifter proc in Lightning Field (along with Energize, naturally) keeps me reliably topped off.

 

That said, I'm happy with these results as they are. 

 

Electric Armor, or at least the tank version, seems to synergize unusually well with this sort of proc-heavy build.  It has built-in +recharge (Lightning Reflexes) to help compensate for the loss of offensive set bonuses, and it doesn't require many defensive set bonuses to achieve durability that is plenty "good enough" to tank pretty much all of the game's content, save scenarios where there is heavy Toxic damage.

 

But of course, resistance builds have a weakness, and that is debuffs.  If you don't have appreciable +DEF, then you will get hit with mountains of debuffs.  Electric Armor fairs pretty well here too:  It features near-immunity to end drain and recovery debuffs, a large innate resistance to slow/recharge debuffs (40%, which I increased to 90% with minimal slot investment), and of course, damage resistance itself resists resistance debuffs.  (Say that five times fast.)  DEF debuffs still hurt, of course, but this build isn't sensitive to them in the same way that most IO +DEF builds are - and obviously, Rage crashes my DEF every ~70 seconds anyway.

 

My original plan was to go Bio/SS to push offense, but for all of its vast advantages, Bio just didn't cut it for me in normal game play scenarios, based on experimentation on the test server.  Bio's layered approach to durability is very effective; don't get me wrong, but it doesn't play particularly well with Rage's crash, and of course inconsistent layering also makes you more sensitive to debuffs.  Still, worth noting that Bio's Offensive Adaptation is worth quite a bit in extra DPS.  Wouldn't surprise me to see numbers 50+ points higher than mine.

 

(I'll also note that a previous experiment in making a high-durability Bio/SS resulted in my falling asleep before I could dent a Pylon, even while using Offensive Adaptation.  The procs really do make that big a difference.  Ok, that's hyperbole, but I really did quit in disgust when 8+ minutes had passed and IIRC only half of the Pylon's health was gone)

Edited March 13, 2020 by Obitus
fixed small error in the build link; performance shifter in Lightning Field instead of the Tanker Absorb ATO

[Sir Myshkin]

7 hours ago, Obitus said:

My original plan was to go Bio/SS to push offense, but for all of its vast advantages, Bio just didn't cut it for me in normal game play scenarios, based on experimentation on the test server.  Bio's layered approach to durability is very effective; don't get me wrong, but it doesn't play particularly well with Rage's crash, and of course inconsistent layering also makes you more sensitive to debuffs

It's interesting that you had this experience. Not that it'd be perfect in all scenarios (but realistically neither is Electric), but even with the -20% Crash, and not building for any intentional S/L Def, I felt Bio Armor did fine with Super Strength.

 

7 hours ago, Obitus said:

Wouldn't surprise me to see numbers 50+ points higher than mine.

Linking back to ... page 20 I think? Posted SS/Bio Brute and Bio/SS Tanker. It wasn't until a bit later that I realized (through additional research into the videos I'd recorded for data collection) that I caught a time I missed that had hit 2:00 on a Pylon, and it was very much a "perfect storm" of proc and timing. I also didn't utilize Cross Punch over Haymaker, which was later determined to provide even more swing on the DPS with the Fury proc included, but then it starts to feel less like "SS" and more like "Pool Powers+Rage+KO Blow" which just really underlines the broken of Rage.

[Obitus]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

It's interesting that you had this experience. Not that it'd be perfect in all scenarios (but realistically neither is Electric), but even with the -20% Crash, and not building for any intentional S/L Def, I felt Bio Armor did fine with Super Strength.

It's definitely workable; it just wasn't consistent enough for my taste.  Arachnos, for example, with their autohit -DEF debuffs and various other shenanigans, were more difficult on the Bio than the Elec.   Things like Paragon PD would likely be trouble. 

 

On the Elec, I have yet to find a villain group I couldn't comfortably solo on +4/x8 with minor inspiration use - carnies, arachnos, PPD, Rularuu, Malta; even Knives of Vengeance aren't too bad, with their toxic DoTs.  You can pretty easily get 90% RES to S/L/E/F/C/Psi, and even Negative if you really chase those bonuses.  Toxic will rip you up, but heavy toxic damage is very rare.  (My build skimps a little on F/C/N Resistance; I actually had to drop 6 points of F/C to slot the Fury of the Gladiator proc, which isn't a very important loss in most content, but I do wonder how much good that proc really does outside of Pylon contests.)

 

I think Bio is stronger on paper, but it's more prone to sudden failure and offers a less consistent performance curve across the game's content.  This principle is sort of exemplified by the set's capstone power, which will make you virtually invincible in target-rich scenarios, but which also maxes out at something like half uptime.  (This reminds me of another factor in my comparison: Bio encourages me to take all of its powers, whereas I can skip the last two on Elec, guiltlessly.)

 

But again, I should emphasize that I'm talking about a specific build type with tons of procs crowding out defensive set bonuses.  Bio is a fine tanking set; it just wasn't as good as Elec in this particular instance, and for my purposes.  I do love the way you can turn DNA Siphon into a mini-nuke, though, and the Adaptation mechanic is great.

 

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Linking back to ... page 20 I think? Posted SS/Bio Brute and Bio/SS Tanker. It wasn't until a bit later that I realized (through additional research into the videos I'd recorded for data collection) that I caught a time I missed that had hit 2:00 on a Pylon, and it was very much a "perfect storm" of proc and timing. I also didn't utilize Cross Punch over Haymaker, which was later determined to provide even more swing on the DPS with the Fury proc included, but then it starts to feel less like "SS" and more like "Pool Powers+Rage+KO Blow" which just really underlines the broken of Rage.

Great score man, and I appreciate all of your work testing builds.

 

I ended up using Cross Punch almost by accident.  At first I only took it to make leveling more pleasant.  Despite its strength at the high end, SS kind of sucks for newer players; whittling away mobs with Jab, Punch, and Haymaker for the first ~35 levels is like watching paint dry.  (Yes, I know you get KO Blow at 20, but until you can get the power frankenslotted at the very least, and ideally supplement that with +recharge bonuses, it isn't a routine-use attack power, more like an occasional novelty.)

 

Anyway, Cross Punch is in there to replace Punch now.  Its DPA is a little lower than Haymaker's, thanks to Haymaker's higher proc chance, but it hits a good bit harder than Punch, can hit multiple targets, and it can slot Fury of the Gladiator, so I kept it.  But of course, this choice prevented me from taking Taunt.  Someone who's less stubborn about taking Fly and Afterburner could wring more performance out of the build than I have.

 

(I had a build on the test server that didn't take Punch or Cross Punch at all, just rolled with Dark Obliteration, Gloom, Haymaker, and KO Blow.  That build was surprisingly workable even in a Pylon context.  There were gaps, but it still managed ~330 DPS with Ageless Destiny's help, and in normal content you scarcely notice the gaps anyway; what matters most is that sweet AoE damage from procced out Footstomp + Dark Obliteration.

 

My Bio/SS build with the same Punchless setup scored 392 DPS.)

Edited March 13, 2020 by Obitus

[Obitus]

On 3/12/2020 at 4:56 PM, Obitus said:

Initial test conditions: T4 Musculature Core, T4 Assault Radial Hybrid, T3 Reactive Radial, no Destiny/Lore, no Fury of the Gladiator proc.

• 192 seconds for 327.5 DPS
• 181 seconds for 339.6 DPS

Next test: Same Incarnates, added Fury of the Gladiator Proc to Cross Punch:

• 156 seconds for 373.6 DPS

Next, swapped in T4 Reactive and T3 Ageless Core:

• 151 seconds for 381 DPS

(NB: In order to reach these numbers, I did wait to stack Rage before engaging the Pylon.)

Did some testing with T4 Ageless.  Same setup otherwise.

• first run clocked 142 seconds, for 397 DPS
• second run clocked 145 seconds, for 392 DPS
• third run clocked 135 seconds, for 411 DPS

The video for that last run follows in the spoiler:

Spoiler

 

 

Made quite a few execution errors, but I suspect the proc and ToHit-roll gods were with me even so.

 

Just a final note on Reactive that I forgot to mention earlier:  Degenerative Core is generally the accepted best for Pylon runs, but for this particular build Reactive Radial is better, IMO, certainly in normal content and possibly also against Pylons.  The extra DoT damage, and massively larger DoT probability, are key during Rage crashes.  Reactive Radial's -RES debuff is an afterthought; can't reliably stack it anyway.

 

Interface DoTs were broken for a long time.  Now they're awesome again.

 

Oh, and because I didn't make it explicit earlier:  Ageless is just for Pylon shenanigans.  Rebirth is the daily driver.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Obitus
Taking down video, per the new Code of Conduct, of which I was not aware

[nihilii]

5 hours ago, Obitus said:

Just a final note on Reactive that I forgot to mention earlier:  Degenerative Core is generally the accepted best for Pylon runs, but for this particular build Reactive Radial is better, IMO, certainly in normal content and possibly also against Pylons.

Anyway, unless this has been fixed, the March 3 fix to stop Degen super-stacking in leagues introduced a new bug where Degen only stacks once on big targets from a solo character (AVs, GMs, Pylons). It works correctly (multi-stacks) on bosses and under, but for big game hunting, Reactive is probably better right now.

Edited March 14, 2020 by nihilii

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

but for big game hunting, Reactive is probably better right now.

 

ugh.

[Apparition]

7 hours ago, nihilii said:

Anyway, unless this has been fixed, the March 3 fix to stop Degen super-stacking in leagues introduced a new bug where Degen only stacks once on big targets from a solo character (AVs, GMs, Pylons). It works correctly (multi-stacks) on bosses and under, but for big game hunting, Reactive is probably better right now.

 

Makes me glad that I take Tier 4 Degenerative Core and Tier 4 Reactive Radial on all of my characters.

[dz132]

On 1/11/2020 at 11:56 PM, Kanil said:

i've been wondering about psi melee for awhile, because it's the first actual 50 i played up normally on homecoming.

there's a certain weird factor to it that i think isn't properly captured in any tests where the nature of insight isn't necessarily about expending it immediately because it's a fixed time, but i always wondered what the actual performance is.

 

the answer is... it's okay, i guess. with similar building, it averages out to around 2m flat for it's dps. the idea is that whenever you get insight, you expend it on regular attacks to it's maximum amount until the very last second, and then last greater psi blade hit at that point. while insight is locked out or not available then you get to keep using greater psiblade due to it's high DPA with a million procs on it that always activate. so, in my testing it's insight activate-> 8 attacks, GPB. then using GPB whenever it's up until insight comes back.

 

i tried some strings where i added boggle to greatly increase the amount of uptime insight had, and it definitely did but it ended up with similar results to just kinda starting off with insight and letting things rock. it's unfortunate the psi melee has one of those cool factors like titan weapons where you have to pay attention to what you're doing for maximum output but the actual output itself leaves something to be desired.

 

 

 

Got a build for this?  My best time on a brute is around 5 mins, so I'm obviously doing something wrong here.

[Destlin]

Crab build- all ranged   T4 muscle T4 reactive T4 hybrid

 

1:30- 553 dps

 

straight up not my build.

Arachnos Crab Spider Soldier.mxd