Jump to content

Can We Get Rid of Aggro Cap?


Vayek2

Recommended Posts

sure, it would probably be abused by farming (but really, is farming so bad that we actually care what they abuse in farms but doesn't hurt the rest of the game?)

 

I just find that most game content is crazy easy now with set bonuses and incarnates. I thought a pretty easy way to bring back a fun challenge would be to just drop arbitrary aggro caps. I;m not entirely sure why the cap was created in the first place on live, but it seems like a fun idea to drop it now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Vayek2 said:

sure, it would probably be abused by farming (but really, is farming so bad that we actually care what they abuse in farms but doesn't hurt the rest of the game?)

 

I just find that most game content is crazy easy now with set bonuses and incarnates. I thought a pretty easy way to bring back a fun challenge would be to just drop arbitrary aggro caps. I;m not entirely sure why the cap was created in the first place on live, but it seems like a fun idea to drop it now.

 

I think part of it was, it broke certain powersets clean in half.  Anything with massive mitigation (coughGranitecough) or bonuses for nearby targets could just pull the entire map and lay waste, which sucked for anyone who couldn't keep up or didn't have a badass graphics card.  It also ran directly counter to the vehement anti-farming stance the devteam had for most of the Live run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep seeing the "go start your own server" type dismissive post being made in response to shout down suggestions of others on these forums.  If the best answer that you can provide is "don't like it, go place somewhere else" then perhaps you shouldn't be participating in a discussion.

 

28 minutes ago, Vayek2 said:

I just find that most game content is crazy easy now with set bonuses and incarnates.

Personally, I agree with this.  IMO the existing content is boringly far too easy now for teams filled with fully pimped out incarnates.  I don't know if removing the aggro cap will help with that, but it is an idea with merit.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

I keep seeing the "go start your own server" type dismissive post being made in response to shout down suggestions of others on these forums.  If the best answer that you can provide is "don't like it, go place somewhere else" then perhaps you shouldn't be participating in a discussion.

 

Personally, I agree with this.  IMO the existing content is boringly far too easy now for teams filled with fully pimped out incarnates.  I don't know if removing the aggro cap will help with that, but it is an idea with merit.

#1: City of Heroes existed for most of it's lifetime with the Aggro Cap. It's how most people who played the game existed in the game. To the point where most people don't realize that the aggro cap is hard-coded into the NPC AI and think it can somehow be altered on a character by character basis. Even though that was a hot bone of contention when the aggro cap was implemented.

 

#2: The Server Code is out there. I'm not saying "Create your own game and play it, hosting your own thousands of players at a time". I'm saying "If that's an experience you want, you can have it on your own machine, then come back after 'cause there's no way the Devs, here, are gonna do that"

 

#3: HILARIOUSLY people think this would increase challenge at -all-! As if a level 51 character with softcapped+ defenses, hardcapped resistances, enough regen and recharge to make the earliest scrappers drop their jaws because they six-slotted heal and have less is gonna be challenged by a larger than usual quantity of people who still can't hit them... Yeah. Ain't gonna happen.

 

It wouldn't increase the challenge at all. You'd just be standing in a larger pile of enemies jumping over each other to try to find 6 square milimeters to stand in next to you while swinging or shooting fruitlessly at the armored god before them.

 

Why yes, Defense is a matter of relative damage reduction which is why it's value increases exponentially as you approach 45% and 100 people swinging on you are gonna hit a lot more often than 16, that's a great point! But taking 5 hits every X Seconds isn't going to be significantly different than taking 1 hit every X.Y seconds (Where Y is a value correlating to 1/4 of X)

 

You'll still have resistances, regen, and self-healing to offset the impact.

 

Meanwhile unless the target caps are also rescinded (And target caps are a balancing point between melee and ranged classes and also between Sentinels and everyone else) you're just gonna be standing there for however long it'd take to kill all those groups, normally. You'd just do it in one place instead of while walking between groups.

 

It's not significantly interesting. It's not engaging for all your teammates who have to wait while you herd up the entire map so they can shoot it when you bring it to the corner/dumpster/whatever. It's not going to make the Incarnate game "More Fun" in any meaningful way.

 

... also it would require us to get rid of the NPC Tether which is probably a hell of a lot harder than increasing the aggro cap from 16 to, say, 5,000. Otherwise the NPCs would just walk back to their spawnpoint.

 

So yeah... it'd be nifty to see a nice dumpster pull for old time's sake, but it'd be more reasonably to do that in a private server environment than try to make it a serious change to the way City plays.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

#1: City of Heroes existed for most of it's lifetime with the Aggro Cap.

So?  The game existed for most of its lifetime without Incarnates too. 

 

All I suggested is that the idea has some merit.  It may help toward alleviating some of the boredom with non-challenging content, it may not.

Edited by ShardWarrior
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I keep seeing the "go start your own server" type dismissive post being made in response to shout down suggestions of others on these forums.  If the best answer that you can provide is "don't like it, go place somewhere else" then perhaps you shouldn't be participating in a discussion.

 

Personally, I agree with this.  IMO the existing content is boringly far too easy now for teams filled with fully pimped out incarnates.  I don't know if removing the aggro cap will help with that, but it is an idea with merit.

Part of the issue is that this topic has come up repeatedly already. OP could have at least done a search before making yet another thread on the subject. And had OP read through those threads, they would have seen all the extensive reasons against the suggestion (and the few, poorly reasoned ones for it). 

 

The problem is, even when there wasn't an aggro cap, things weren't harder. Whole maps would be cleared quickly by gathering them up. If the complaint is that OP doesn't find enough challenge, the suggestion wouldn't address the problem. 

 

If challenge is the desire (though, OP just made it sound like they wanted to relive the "Glory Days"), a better suggestion would be having higher difficulty settings. Wether that's being able to set it to +8, or spawning only bosses, or adding an AV to every mission (these are all on-the-fly ideas, mind you).

  • Like 2

PQAzhGk.png Make Energy Melee Great Again! Join the discussion.

 

Request hi-res icons here. fBfruXW.pngnFRzS1G.pngZOOTsRk.pngh1GKuZo.pngNG0EFBL.png8lnHKLt.png3f2lHyL.png7KPkl2C.pngHPucq9J.pngBlbsQUx.pngXdnlqXI.png9sfLlss.pngu1MqVyK.png9E28NED.pngTrwSZIP.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All removing the agro cap would do is make farmers even faster, and expand the gap between IO/Incarnated God builds and those that aren't.

 

It would not make the game harder, just allow those that could survive it to do things faster/easier.

 

There would be a slight increase in challenge for those who are not gods, in certain missions where large spawns are closer together, or where there are ambushes... But in a team environment this would help the weaker teams that went over normal agro cap, because the brutes and tanks could keep more of the agro off of the squishies.

Always happy to answer questions in game, typically hanging around Help.
Global is @Zolgar, and tends to be tagged in Help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please, no.

 

I don't want to go back to the days of standing by the door for half an hour, while the tank herds AN ENTIRE LARGE MAP worth of NPCs into a single mob, thanks.

  • Like 2

Global Handle: @PaxArcana ... Home servers on Live: Freedom Virtue ... Home Server on HC: Torchbearer


Archetype: Casual Gamer ... Powersets:  Forum Melee / Neckbeard ... Kryptonite:  Altoholism

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

*provides PaxArcana with a reward medallion for the correct use of the word "mob" in the context of City of Heroes*

 

Yey.

*Gives MetaVileTerror a demerit for not knowing that 'mob' is short for 'mobile' and is an old gamer term for a single enemy*

 

Boo.

  • Haha 1

Always happy to answer questions in game, typically hanging around Help.
Global is @Zolgar, and tends to be tagged in Help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both usages are correct.

Tanks used to herd mobs into a gigantic mob of mobs that kept trying (unsuccessfully, natch) to mob the tank.

 

Words are fun! 😄

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1

Global Handle: @PaxArcana ... Home servers on Live: Freedom Virtue ... Home Server on HC: Torchbearer


Archetype: Casual Gamer ... Powersets:  Forum Melee / Neckbeard ... Kryptonite:  Altoholism

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably not going to see the agro cap removed, but the correct solution to the original issue was to impose an agro range - you get so far from the spawn point, the mobs break off pursuit.   Original problem would have been solved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Rylas said:

Part of the issue is that this topic has come up repeatedly already. OP could have at least done a search before making yet another thread on the subject. And had OP read through those threads, they would have seen all the extensive reasons against the suggestion (and the few, poorly reasoned ones for it). 

 

The problem is, even when there wasn't an aggro cap, things weren't harder. Whole maps would be cleared quickly by gathering them up. If the complaint is that OP doesn't find enough challenge, the suggestion wouldn't address the problem. 

 

If challenge is the desire (though, OP just made it sound like they wanted to relive the "Glory Days"), a better suggestion would be having higher difficulty settings. Wether that's being able to set it to +8, or spawning only bosses, or adding an AV to every mission (these are all on-the-fly ideas, mind you).

I had run a quick key word search for "aggro cap" and came up with nothing, but thanks for letting me know I need to dig deeper on that 🙂

The glory days would be awesome - after all, aren't we all here now out of a sense of nostalgia?

 

But yes, the key point I was talking about is to maybe give the existing content some new scope of challenge. I mean, yes, I do love feeling over powered and super hero/villian like. but like any game, I get bored when I can't make it harder.

 

I really like your idea of making a +8 option. I feel like that would do a great job of creating a more difficult challenge without really depending on the creation of new and complicated content.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Vayek2 said:

I really like your idea of making a +8 option. I feel like that would do a great job of creating a more difficult challenge without really depending on the creation of new and complicated content.

It's certainly a better idea than removing the aggro cap since that becomes an all or nothing change. Imagine non-IO'd players trying to avoid too much aggro in dense spawn maps. Believe it or not, but there are plenty who don't bother with making super builds. At least difficulty setting changes keep it to player choice.

  • Thanks 1

PQAzhGk.png Make Energy Melee Great Again! Join the discussion.

 

Request hi-res icons here. fBfruXW.pngnFRzS1G.pngZOOTsRk.pngh1GKuZo.pngNG0EFBL.png8lnHKLt.png3f2lHyL.png7KPkl2C.pngHPucq9J.pngBlbsQUx.pngXdnlqXI.png9sfLlss.pngu1MqVyK.png9E28NED.pngTrwSZIP.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Rylas said:

Part of the issue is that this topic has come up repeatedly already. OP could have at least done a search before making yet another thread on the subject. And had OP read through those threads, they would have seen all the extensive reasons against the suggestion (and the few, poorly reasoned ones for it). 

 

The problem is, even when there wasn't an aggro cap, things weren't harder. Whole maps would be cleared quickly by gathering them up. If the complaint is that OP doesn't find enough challenge, the suggestion wouldn't address the problem. 

 

If challenge is the desire (though, OP just made it sound like they wanted to relive the "Glory Days"), a better suggestion would be having higher difficulty settings. Wether that's being able to set it to +8, or spawning only bosses, or adding an AV to every mission (these are all on-the-fly ideas, mind you).

I want this all boss spawn idea.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do we think it would work out of the aggro cap was lifted but the target cap remained? I think most of the times this comes up most people are assuming if we can aggro the entire map that we would be able to hit them all at once too. But what if we couldn't? Would that make it significantly harder if you could only hit 16 enemies but 200 could attack you? I'm still not for lifting the aggro cap, but this idea does make me curious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...