Shield Defense's "Active Defense"

[StrykerGaming]

Y'all, there's huge discrepancy or should I say...issue with Active Defense. It's not a toggled power, it is an activation power that has a base 3:30 cool down for resistance against Disorient, Hold, Immobilize, Sleep, Fear, Confuse, Repel, Knockback, Defense Debuff. Other comparable defensive powers with the same protection are toggled powers.  This makes Shield Defense a less desirable defense to use. You literally have to take secondary powers that give you protection against knockback (Acrobatics). I won't use this defense with a tank. You're stuck in mez hell when this is on cool down. I'm currently using it with my melee brute w/electric melee. I'm questioning doing so now.

 

Devs, y'all need to change this to a toggle power where its always on in-line with the other defensive powers. Why this is not one already was either full-hardly or a mistake or both. This really needs to be rectified. Otherwise, it Shield Defense will end up like Energy Melee...rarely used.

[Steampunkette]

Active Defense and Practiced Brawler are the two mez protection clickies that are core powers (As compared to Rune of Protection)

 

They're awesome, so long as you either have them set to recharge on cooldown (2 Recharge SOs) or use them just before Mez-Capable fights and don't use them when you're fighting enemies without mez. 

 

The reason they're cool is that they're not a constant drain on your Endurance. You can pop it before a fight, recover the end cost, then go into the fight with your mez up at no cost during the fighting. The reason they're great is that you can use them WHILE MEZZED. So if you hop into a fight where you're engaging a bunch of mezzers and get mezzed you can click it on and go "Phew. I should've clicked that before the fight!" and not die. Toggles can't be activated while you're mezzed.

 

The reason they're -awesome- is because you can Stack Durations for periods of even greater Mez Protection.

 

That said, there's a thread about this on the third page of the Suggestion forum, you should probably check to see whether a topic has been discussed, then add your opinions to that thread.

 

 

[gameboy1234]

Shield Defense is great, and I took my SD/War Mace tanker through all the Incarnate content on live with no problems. Active Defense is better than a toggle imo because you don't lose the protection of you run out of end or get de-toggled somehow.

 

I was just on an ITF at +4 and our SD tanker practically soloed the entire thing.  SD and Willpower are two of the best defense sets in the game.

[Snakebit]

I don't think this is needed. It's inline with other def based sets like SR and Nin. 

[biostem]

It is an easy matter to make the power permanent, and possibly even double-stack it.  Since it is a click power, there is no endurance drain after the initial casting.  You can't be detoggled out of the power.  Not every armor set should be identical.  I can understand how this can be an issue early on, but the threats are less then as well.  It's just a bit of a learning curve/growing pain you need to get passed...

[Cementi]

My feelings on active mez powers are it either takes up your one auto cast power or it's a tedious mechanic.

Hasten usually gets the auto cast so that means you get the tedious task of managing your mez protection and if you forget.....bad things happen. Or you can manage your Hasten.

Either way its just not really a fun mechanic. I wouldn't campaign for a change myself but I also will probably never play any set that has an active mez protection for the above reasons as well as it can be super annoying if you get hit with -recharge debuffs and it does not come back in time.

I love the way Shield Defense works for everything else but the active mez protection always drives me away.

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Cementi

[StrykerGaming]

1 hour ago, Cementi said:

My feelings on active mez powers are it either takes up your one auto cast power or it's a tedious mechanic.

Hasten usually gets the auto cast so that means you get the tedious task of managing your mez protection and if you forget.....bad things happen. Or you can manage your Hasten.

Either way its just not really a fun mechanic. I wouldn't campaign for a change myself but I also will probably never play any set that has an active mez protection for the above reasons as well as it can be super annoying if you get hit with -recharge debuffs and it does not come back in time.

I love the way Shield Defense works for everything else but the active mez protection always drives me away.

 

I agree, it's a tedious mechanic that requires us to do what you said. The fact I have to put it on automatic to fire off is going to be out of the question after I hit 50 and Incarnate. I put my Destiny on auto.

 

I read all the replies here. I know all the stories and information. It does not change the fact that this important defensive power has to manually activated either before or after you've been mezzed. You can't do anything to truly lower that gawd awful 3:30 cooldown with any assurance of lowering it until you're level 50. Oh sure you can start at 25 using LOTG and the 7.5% Global Cooldown enhancement. However, that means investing in enhancement catalysts to make that entire set (4 of them) attuned, even if you only slot 3 per power.

 

The most egregious part of 'Active Defense'  you cannot slot any sets in it. So, you'll have to put at least 2 maybe 3 slots in it and load up nothing but Recharge enhancements. How does that impact your build for end-game? How does that calculate into what you want to do in min-maxing your abilities? I've already stated that I have to have acrobatics (3 powers from Jump) to have that and protect me (albeit minor knockback protection). That means I have to give up at least 2, may be 3 attack powers to use other abilities like Energy Mastery (Superior Conditioning & Physical Perfection), Fighting (Tough/Weave), Leadership (Maneuvers/Tactics).

 

Not having this as a toggled power has major consequences in the build, especially at levels less than 50 on the work up to 50. I'm sorry, I don't buy the 'reasoning' behind the purpose of the power. It is an unnecessary activation power that causes more problems than its worth. I've shelved my dark melee/super reflexes toon because of Practiced Brawler is exactly the same. The latter I may end up deleting and remaking it using WP instead. 

 

I see two ways they can fix this if they don't make it a toggled power. Lower the cooldown by 30 seconds and give it the ability to slot a defense, resistance, or endurance modification set. (For both Shield Defense and Super Reflexes). However, I prefer it as a toggled power so I don't have to do some really weird crap that makes me choose dropping attack powers for something like Acrobatics just to have "some" knockback protection.

 

Lastly, while you might be asking "why am I playing the Electric Melee/Shield Defense brute," if this is an issue. Because I want to see how both Lightning Rod and Shield Charge work with this. If Active Defense was a toggled power, I'd probably put 'Spring Attack' in for another charged attack; however, its not and I cannot.

Edited September 1, 2019 by StrykerGaming

[Steampunkette]

Put two recharges into it and pay attention every 2 minutes or so. It ain't -that- hard. Or don't -bother- to pay attention and when you get KBed or Held or whatever -then- click the power.

 

It requires you to play infinitesimally different from other powersets. That's all. Like a Regen based set compared to a Defense based set. If you can't adapt, that's fine. But the power is fine as it is.

 

/jranger

[Zolgar]

3 SO tier enhancers and it's Perma.

 

You can certainly improve it's recharge time immensely. At 50 you can get it Perma double stacked, which I believe even protects you from Tommy's cheater stun in the ITF.

 

"Different play styles" is not a reason to change a set, if it was, we would all be playing one combination per archetype with different skins.

[MunkiLord]

I put a single +5 boosted End reduction enhancement in mine and set it to auto fire.

[Razor Cure]

In spite of the points about AD being easily perma'd and all round more efficient (end wise) than a toggle..I'd love to see an option for in, like SR on Senties. I didnt mind teh click mez prot on my stalker, but on my scrapper, it always seems to go off at the most annoying time. When i am about to jump into a mob or have just hit BU. Sure..I could set it to non-auto..but that is al;so WHY I'd prefer a toggle. SO I dont have to worry.

[Vanden]

On 9/1/2019 at 4:41 AM, StrykerGaming said:

You can't do anything to truly lower that gawd awful 3:30 cooldown with any assurance of lowering it until you're level 50.

You, uh, you can slot the power itself for recharge. It's easy to make perma.

[Burnt Toast]

On 8/31/2019 at 5:27 AM, StrykerGaming said:

Y'all, there's huge discrepancy or should I say...issue with Active Defense. It's not a toggled power, it is an activation power that has a base 3:30 cool down for resistance against Disorient, Hold, Immobilize, Sleep, Fear, Confuse, Repel, Knockback, Defense Debuff. Other comparable defensive powers with the same protection are toggled powers.  This makes Shield Defense a less desirable defense to use. You literally have to take secondary powers that give you protection against knockback (Acrobatics). I won't use this defense with a tank. You're stuck in mez hell when this is on cool down. I'm currently using it with my melee brute w/electric melee. I'm questioning doing so now.

 

Devs, y'all need to change this to a toggle power where its always on in-line with the other defensive powers. Why this is not one already was either full-hardly or a mistake or both. This really needs to be rectified. Otherwise, it Shield Defense will end up like Energy Melee...rarely used.

Are you serious or is this a troll post?
Put 2 Recharge IOs in it and pay attention? Sorry you feel like having to pay attention to a power is beneath you or cumbersome. 

 

On Brutes: Shield is 6/13 when it comes to characters created

On Tanks: Shield is 2/11 when it comes to primary of characters created

On Brutes: At level 50 Shield Defense ranks: 4/13

On Tanks: At level 50 Shield Defense ranks 7/11

 

This is not some new mechanic it has been this way the entire time Shield has been a power set; since Issue 13 - December 2008 - so for 4 years on Live. 

[krj12]

Put 2 Recharge IOs in it and pay attention? Sorry you feel like having to pay attention to a power is beneath you or cumbersome. 

 

I think that's the whole point of the post, it IS cumbersome. 

IMO, as a dpser, my primary focus should be on dealing damage, not on maintaining my defensive powers.  You can disagree with that, fine, but don't summarily

dismiss those who don't.    As for the final argument "its always been that way, deal with it" - just because something was created that way doesn't mean it has to

stay that way.

 

[HelenCarnate]

It is a little cumbersome but easily manageable.  Recharge is easy to come by even while leveling if you know how to play the market or have a lvl 50 to feed you cash.  Right now my /Shield Stalker is 43 and have never had any issues with getting mezed since I got the power.  Now would I like it if shield got the SR Sentinel treatment?  Sure but it is not really needed.

[DSorrow]

On 9/1/2019 at 11:41 AM, StrykerGaming said:

You can't do anything to truly lower that gawd awful 3:30 cooldown with any assurance of lowering it until you're level 50.

Slot 3 level 25 generic IOs in it at level 25 and it's perma.

On 9/1/2019 at 11:41 AM, StrykerGaming said:

The most egregious part of 'Active Defense'  you cannot slot any sets in it.

Kind of bothersome, yes, but the same is true for at least Practiced Brawler, Wet Ice and Entropy Shield which are all comparable powers.

On 9/1/2019 at 11:41 AM, StrykerGaming said:

I've already stated that I have to have acrobatics (3 powers from Jump) to have that and protect me (albeit minor knockback protection).

Why? Active Defense already gives you KB protection.

 

In the end, I'd prefer it to stay the way it is. Double stacking AD with Ageless allows you to get very respectable DDR with Shield Defense, something you wouldn't be able to get with it as a toggle.

[AkuTenshiiZero]

I'm confused.  I have this power on autocast, with I believe two recharge IOs and nothing else, and the duration is a bit longer that the cooldown.  ANd I don't even have recharge bonuses, when I actually put some sets into my character, the cooldown will be even shorter.  I don't see why this should be a concern, nor do I understand the KB argument because as I recall, it DOES have KB protection (I have never been KB'd while it is active).

[Black Zot]

Recharge slotting to perma works exactly as long as it takes the game to spawn a recharge slow and a mezzer in the same pack.  Soon as that happens, your mez protection drops -> you get mezzed -> your other defenses shut down -> you die before anything comes back online. 

 

Speaking from cold, hard experience, if you're mezzed and have aggro, a breakfree effect won't save you.  The only protection is to not get mezzed in the first place, and click protection simply doesn't cut it.  These powers need to be either toggles or perma before slottingx before I will even consider using these sets.

[StrykerGaming]

10 hours ago, krj12 said:

 

 

 

I think that's the whole point of the post, it IS cumbersome. 

IMO, as a dpser, my primary focus should be on dealing damage, not on maintaining my defensive powers.  You can disagree with that, fine, but don't summarily

dismiss those who don't.    As for the final argument "its always been that way, deal with it" - just because something was created that way doesn't mean it has to

stay that way.

 

You're correct. That is the point of my post. However, somehow I'm being called a troll, or lacking experience, or not caring. As DPS, my focus is on damage dealing. Having to worry about my defensive set to keep up is a distraction and it will cause some loss in DPS.

 

I re-rolled my Dark Melee scrapper out of Super Reflexes into Will Power. I'm now free of having to keeping my eye on 'Practiced Brawler' and focused on doing what my main purpose is, DPS. Somehow, that is lost on those who say, "Its fine, leave it alone, L2P, crowd."

[HelenCarnate]

2 hours ago, Black Zot said:

Recharge slotting to perma works exactly as long as it takes the game to spawn a recharge slow and a mezzer in the same pack.  Soon as that happens, your mez protection drops -> you get mezzed -> your other defenses shut down -> you die before anything comes back online. 

 

Speaking from cold, hard experience, if you're mezzed and have aggro, a breakfree effect won't save you.  The only protection is to not get mezzed in the first place, and click protection simply doesn't cut it.  These powers need to be either toggles or perma before slottingx before I will even consider using these sets.

Been playing mine solo from lvl 1.  Since the 20s have been set for +0x3.  Got mezed a couple times before I had enough recharge for perma and had no issues using a breakfree.  Just had to retoggle Against All Odds and I was good to go.  It just requires that you pay attention until it is perma which is not for everyone. 

[DSorrow]

33 minutes ago, StrykerGaming said:

As DPS, my focus is on damage dealing. Having to worry about my defensive set to keep up is a distraction and it will cause some loss in DPS.

A DPS definitely should have to worry about its defensive set to keep up. Besides, SD and SR are very light in terms of clickyness compared to something like Bio, Rad or Regen. Fortunately, if you don't want to pay attention to your Defensive set, several very passive alternatives such as WP exist already. I'd buy some of this if you were talking about Regen which is a seriously clicky set with no offensive upside, but when it comes to Shield that once every 60-120 seconds pause in DPS is severely offset by Against All Odds and Shield Charge, and SR gets Quickness.

37 minutes ago, StrykerGaming said:

Somehow, that is lost on those who say, "Its fine, leave it alone, L2P, crowd."

I think most people just think you don't have a very strong argument for why this change should happen. From how your comments read, you want all of your 50s to play the same (Destiny on auto cast) and anything that can't do it should be changed to fit that playstyle. I don't want to sound snarky, but if putting Destiny on auto at the expense of Active Defense puts you at a significant risk, maybe consider checking your autocast priorities?

 

I'm saying this as someone who plays a Shield character. Would it be convenient to have a toggle mez protect? Yeah, sure, that would allow me to put Hasten or Destiny on autocast. Would I take it at the cost of no longer being able to stack the DDR from AD? Hell no, that's a big part of my survivability.

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, StrykerGaming said:

You're correct. That is the point of my post. However, somehow I'm being called a troll, or lacking experience, or not caring. As DPS, my focus is on damage dealing. Having to worry about my defensive set to keep up is a distraction and it will cause some loss in DPS.

 

I re-rolled my Dark Melee scrapper out of Super Reflexes into Will Power. I'm now free of having to keeping my eye on 'Practiced Brawler' and focused on doing what my main purpose is, DPS. Somehow, that is lost on those who say, "Its fine, leave it alone, L2P, crowd."

In most cases you're going to do less damage with DM/WP than you are DM/SR. SR gives you all those spots for Luck recharge and easily attained softcapping. Plus all that recharge means the click mez protection is not only perma, but stacks. Compared to most sets, it's ridiculously easy to get DM's ideal chain and perma hasten with SR. 

 

And if you just strongly hate the idea of click mez protection, so be it. But changing from DM/SR to DM/WP is a very inefficient way to focus on DPS. DM/SR is easy mode for dealing good damage. 

 

Edit: Since you mentioned min maxing earlier in the thread and how you do that while taking Acrobatics. Simple, you don't take that power. In a min max build for SR or SD, that's a poor choice. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by MunkiLord

[Vanden]

2 hours ago, StrykerGaming said:

However, somehow I'm being called a troll, or lacking experience, or not caring.

You're getting these responses because you say things like:

On 9/1/2019 at 4:41 AM, StrykerGaming said:

You can't do anything to truly lower that gawd awful 3:30 cooldown with any assurance of lowering it until you're level 50.

Even though you clearly know you can slot the power for recharge reduction, because in the same post you say:

On 9/1/2019 at 4:41 AM, StrykerGaming said:

So, you'll have to put at least 2 maybe 3 slots in it and load up nothing but Recharge enhancements.

That and the fact that you said Active Defense somehow forces you to take Acrobatics, even though AD gives you more KB protection than Acrobatics does.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Vanden

[GM Sijin]

Just because a powerset doesn't fit into your playstyle as well as another powerset does not mean the powerset needs to change. If you dislike the active mez protection playstyle, the solution is to not play the sets that have active mez protection. There are other people that prefer that style of mez protection and changing it will not be a straight win across the board.

 

This same logic applies across the board. Don't like playing support? Defender/Corruptor/Controller probably isn't for you, that doesn't mean the ATs need to be changed.

 

Homogenization of powersets and ATs is antithetical to what City of Heroes is about.

[StrykerGaming]

8 hours ago, Vanden said:

You're getting these responses because you say things like:

Even though you clearly know you can slot the power for recharge reduction, because in the same post you say:

That and the fact that you said Active Defense somehow forces you to take Acrobatics, even though AD gives you more KB protection than Acrobatics does.

So, you justify the demeaning and belittling remarks because of "this statement?" So, that makes it okay? If you'd READ through and understood the context of which I was posting about, leveling not END game. It doesn't matter now anyway. I've found out what I wanted to know through all the hubris and noise. It is a sad testament that this community that was once nothing like you see in other communities back on line are exactly like them today. I'll make sure to warn people about interacting on the forums, on my stream, if this is how things will continue.

Edited September 9, 2019 by StrykerGaming