Greycat

Thing is, there is absolutely nothing in the PVP zones required to finish PVE content. There are things "nice to have," sure. But nothing required. As mentioned, the game *used* to force you in (and I will use that wording because it is accurate) when the PVP zones were introduced. You *had* to see the warzone contacts - they'd show up without any other contacts, basically blocking you - and they were in the PVP zones. And when they were released, connections in general were slower - so people could actually time out of that 30 seconds before they could do anything. In response, since this could actually lead to "non consensual" PVP, those contacts were moved outside of the zone. And now, you don't even get a popup about them. You can notice and click on them outside, but that's all they are now. So, honestly, right now I can't agree there's any non-consensual PVP in the game... unless someone's still on dialup and can't make it through with that timer. That said? There's so little actual *risk* of PVP that complaining about it - barring being on the "unofficial PVP server - is sort of like complaining about the risk of being hit with a meteor. And not just a meteor, but specifically one that's at least 1.5 km wide, spinning counterclockwise and coming in from the northeast.

... this is kind of like saying "I wanted to go skydiving, put on the parachute, got in the plane, but I didn't consent to falling through the air!"

Yeah, have to say Arcane has it right here. You're given a very blatant "You've entered a PVP zone and may be attacked by other players." You're also given a 30 second countdown in which you're perfectly safe where you can decide to continue or "not consent" by turning around and exiting. They even removed an "I have to enter the zone even though I don't want to" issue when the zones were introduced, as the war zone contact was in the zone. THey were moved out. And now you don't even have to go see them. Now, granted, some people may say they have a bad/slow connection and don't get that full 30 seconds, and I would not argue with the timer not kicking in until the player does something (move, type, activate a power) to indicate they are there - but you are given time to consent by staying or not consent (safely) by leaving. It's frankly no different than consenting to PVP by entering a PVP match in the Arena. Going to a console, joining an event, then saying "I didn't want to PVP" would be silly. You took a deliberate action to enter a clearly marked PVP environment. (This is, frankly, one of the things I *like* about COH PVP. You *can't,* for instance, just want to do a "get 20 moth wings" quest and have someone from another faction somehow drop into the area and kill you. You have to go to very deliberate areas, set off from the rest of the world, get warned that it's a PVP area and you can be attacked, and agree to continue by waiting out the timer and *not leaving.*)

Because it's different when you get to play through a story tied to *you,* versus... let's say "reading through back issues" via Ouro. If, using one of my examples, we create a 1-50 arc where Crey is really helpful to you, oh tech hero, oh, mind if we see tha tthing you're using? No, no, it's to help you really... and they do something "anti-your-technology," it doesn't particularly make sense to level through that as a non-tech hero. "You've done tech sabotage to my tech? But... I don't have any, I'm natural and I kick people, what did you do, tie my shoelaces together?" Fighting the COT or some other group in the magic origin arcs as a tech hero. "You're countering my magic? What magic, gunpowder?" And so on.

Ahh. Disregard then.

I'd argue that doesn't really "work," though. They don't really scale well to the ends of the spectrum.

And it doesn't do it well. For instance, yes, Rikti are "at level" in King's Row, but easily overpower players at that level. Meanwhile, they're pretty much cake at higher level. And zombies are a PITA in the same way.

I'd call that a good compromise, personally.

EATs: Least likely, but still. I kind of keep going back and forth between this being an EAT and an... "epic powerset." This is also the most nebulous (and most likely to stay mostly blank for a while,) but there'd be two ATs - the BOTBS, and the guardians (whatever we want to call those,) mostly as a call back to the player and the card that were initially referenced. BOTBS: Not the most up front, the way they're referred to makes them sound like manipulators and assassins. The group is also a mix of magic and tech. I'd see them as a mix, in some ways, of stalker, assault, and illusion - especially given the shadow/duplicates tech we already have in game. I only have rough ideas, here, but they do involve stealth, using duplicates as decoys/damage sponges, an upgrade to them later to make them more like phantom army (causing as well as soaking damage,) possibly even laying traps (quickly) to trigger a brief gang-war-like power to misdirect and absorb damage, letting them strike (or get away.) They would also do direct damage, have some (but not a lot) of armor, and perhaps have a bonus to damage on distracted or unaware enemies. It needs fleshing out. 🙂 Guardian: (Likely needs a rename, that's kind of boring for this.) Probably more tank/brute-y, with support ability for the team given the guardian role in the player card. Definitely need to flesh it out more, likely copying both some aspect of "being a statue" and, again, the decoy/simulacrum mechanics. More "light" based. Melee and range. And yes, when it comes to "being a statue" as a defending entity, I do kind of picture a "For 10 seconds, you're invulnerable and taunt everything in a radius, but can't move from this statue form." (Probably with some kind of AOE on release.) More on everything once I have a little more time to chew on it and do so.

Maps and shareable assets: I have specific reason to list this this way. Obviously with something that's lasted this long (since ancient Egypt,) new assets would have to be made to really convey this. These would, I'd think, get a lot of mileage as they could be used in AE, we'd get plenty of new items for base building, and even costume parts (ancient egypt = more monstrous heads, to begin with, as well as weapon customization choices and other costume parts.) I'd think, for maps/environments, at least we'd have: Desert Oasis Desert village (ancient) Riverside desert city (ancient) Riverside desert city (modern) Ancient temple (looks new) Ancient temple (ruins) Oil fields (links to gadzul oil) Not only would this expand the world a bit beyond just Paragon and the Isles (which, after all, was started somewhat with both Cim and Praetoria,) but it would open up some storytelling options in AE. Plus, of course, all these maps would have pieces and parts to use in our own bases. While these would take work, as mentioned, they'd be useful outside these storylines and I think several areas of the community would enjoy taking advantage of them. Just because they'd be needed in the maps and missions, seeing new items for bases (Egyptian themed statuary, temple columns, simple buildings, even something hut-like - not everyone lived in big stone buildings after all! Plus all the other little details that make maps come alive) would probably be exciting. Even simple "desert surfaces" and "sand dunes" could get a lot of flexibility, if they can be recolored - surface of Mars? Beach? Might not be the greatest "moon surface," lacking craters, but it could do in a pinch. And of course, we'd have other assets to use. Not just things like other animals (crocodiles, jackals, and the like,) but since Egyptian deities were often depicted as animal/human hybrids, we'd have a bit more to play with in the character creator. Of everything, I'd hope *these* were pursued, *even ahead of story arcs,* since it could open up so much in general. I think these would get a *lot* of mileage for the work put in to them.

Story arcs: Brief - For all alignments, start at level 20. (Should there be an actual EAT, those would, of course, start at level 1 and be unique to the ATs, superceding these - you would not get these arcs as a BOTBS EAT as you're getting an "insider's view" set of arcs instead.) These generic alignment arcs should be available for everyone.) Like current V/EAT arcs, something new pops up every 5 levels, again starting at level 20. Arcs would cover multiple alignments - Blue: (edited with more of an idea) Theme is investigation, temptation and finally confrontation. They've had thousands of years of dealing with "guardians" and working behind the scenes. Now that the character has come to their attention, they will either work with the BOBS, get out of their way, or fall. Initial contact would be a midnighter (who'd been put under their influence, somehow,) leading you to an investigation of - say, an 'odd cult.' You get him for two arcs, at the end of which there's a trap - and you meet someone odd, who points out you'd been betrayed, but they can help. This would be a BotBS agent. One idea - Some of the help will be a - useful - temp power. (Not sure quite *what* yet, but definitely useful.) Once you hit the arcs at 35-40, said temp power will be turned against you - it may still be useful, but have some severe cost (debuff of some sort, most likely.) Defeating them in the 45-50s, it goes back to being something useful, having been cleansed of their influence. There should definitely be a feeling of tempting and betrayal as you unravel what's going on. ... nope, not more fleshed out at the moment, more a theme than anything right now. Red - "Do you want money? Power? We can help. Information for revenge? We know it." Most likely the most difficult to write, since I don't want to railroad redside. Possibly multiple redside arcs for "what do you want?" Grey - with alternates for both rogue and vigilante, potentially. Theme: "Being the power behind the throne can be much more interesting. Make the change you want without becoming a target. We can show you how." In addition - Gold - Given these are tech/magic based, they've probably infiltrated Portal Corp and may have some interest in Praetoria, which leads to them discovering first/night ward. Obviously wouldn't be following the "20-50" time, but some investigation would probably be worthwhile as they look into this new (to them) magical area. Extra for all - Cimerora The Egyptians have had relations with the Romans - as trade partners, in combat, and as a vassal state. We don't, as I recall, have a *time* for when CIm happens, but there's a few thousand years of Egyptian history to play with. There would likely be BotBS interest in observing what's happening with Cimerora and the little civil war (and Incarnate "magic") there. New contacts are introduced - one to investigate and prevent them from interfering, one who wants to help undermine the government and place an agent at the right hand of the winner. The latter would likely come into conflict with the Nictus / Path of the Dark, so we can play with a little more lore there. Probably 2-3 arcs just exploring some storyline or lore.

History: What are the Blood of the Black Stream? (BOTBS) I used to have a guide on the status of various Epic AT projects. Copying shamelessly from that: In any case, the Blood of the Black Stream has been kicked around a bit. We do know bits and pieces about them. They're supposed to be shapeshifters. They're based in Egypt. They're touched on, primarily in Mr. Bocor's arc, as being involved in Gadzul Oil. And they seem to have a techno/magic mix going on, as one of their projects (link needed) involved building a world-sized computer, tapping into ley lines and other places of energy... one of which is visible if you fly above the tanker in Port Oakes. (The Eye of Horus-shaped oil spill.) This is the lastest word we've had (5/11/2010) about the Blood of the Black Stream. They haven't been forgotten, but they haven't apparently been worked on either. Frankly, I'd say this fell victim to the Positron/War Witch era mentality of "we don't care about the old stuff, we have new developers and want them to work on their new stuff," which left a lot of things hanging which could have been *really* interesting while reinforcing and adding depth to the lore. So. What can we do with this? I'm *very* interested in the backstory and the hints in game, honestly. That's what I'd mostly want to develop. An Epic AT? ... I'd give a solid "maybe," but definitely not shapeshifting. EATs are a lot of work, mostly from tying them *to* a story (the "epic" in "epic AT,") but even without shapeshifting, I have some ideas. These guys sound like manipulators and assassins, and I think we could add a bit to the game with them. I don't expect the dev team we have here - at this size (and funding, and NC negotiation issues, and missing tools, and, and) - to run with the bigger ideas. I'd put them out there anyway mostly for fun, but I think we could at least develop some interesting story arcs to investigate 1-50. I'm going to reserve the next few posts to go into detail on three sections - so don't expect them to fill in *right now,* since I'm doing some of this typing while at lunch, and do want to develop other ideas. The sections: 1. Story arcs. 2. Maps (and shareable assets) 3. Powerset or EAT(s) (Oh. You didn't notice the Eye of Horus by the tanker in Oakes? Take a look...)

What I'd like to see (and have suggested before) are EAT-like arcs based on the origin, following you 1-50. Which sounds somewhat like what you're talking about. Yes, Crey is interested in your tech. I always thought it was a lost opportunity that in the original tutorial you see them "helping" the police with Rikti drones, being good guys, then you hear nothing about them, then *bam* bad guys. That would have been an interesting arc to follow, I'd think. COT or midnighters in your magic, that sort of thing. Have to reveal who's stalking you. And with them available to all in ouro, nobody would necessarily miss out.

Hmm. INitial thoughts: No sort of build up in the primary, though it could be argued tactical assault fills that role. Would you keep the Fighting pool style "having more attacks buff the others?" Which could make for an interesting overall mechanic throughout the melee set itself, come to think of it. Not mentioned, but I'd hope we have an alternate animation option (Probably stolen from MA) for jump kick. 🙂 And yeah, I'd play it for the heck of it.

Result: They'd be used even less.

Or a base. A lot of the public transport bases, as well as others opened to the public, have trainers, tailors and the like in them.

Yes. Galaxy used to be a big RP focal point, and Echo sometimes does serve that as well. I've also seen others doing so in the other zones - and I'm not the only one with a character with a tie of some sort to the old DA.

First, "easy to implement" is never a good thing to assume. Second, even if the zones were switched to PVP and nobody cared, there's one OTHER thing that would probably annoy people. PVP mechanics for powers *are different* from what they are in PVE in many cases. Hell, it's one of the reasons PVP withered after the changes implemented in i13. So not only would your proposed change keep people out who are absolutely opposed to PVP (and deprive us of zones where, for instance, people can hold RP events - Galaxy used to be a very popular event for that - because they don't want someone coming by and *starting fights* for the "fun" of disrupting events,) but even those who would otherwise not care would have zones where their powers operated differently.

The way the comment reads rather implies a judgement on the players, which is why I found it rather irksome. If that was not the intent, I apologize. And as I mentioned earlier, this does not end exploring. Hell, I tend to go after nooks and crannies. As I said, it's an already existing mechanic. So, let's look at early missions. The Hollows. Last Wincott missions: get artifacts, get weapons from Outcasts. One has three glowies, one has five or six. You search, you get close, you hear them, fight whatever's close, click, done. Followed shortly by Flux. Second, third mission? Rescue officers from Trolls. Find 5 officers. Fight what's around them, done. (No escort, etc.) Free them, done. Pain to find sometimes, makes no noise. Explain to me, please. What's the difference between the two that's making one acceptable and one a threat for "significant impact?" Edit: To be clear, no this shouldn't be added to something where you have to fight someone. Having, say, Maelstrom start going "woo woo woo" when you have to find him in - I think it's a morality mission - would be silly, as would having ambushes do it. But when you're essentially treating the NPC as an object to find with no real other interaction, they're not hunting you, etc? It's a minor expansion on an existing mechanic. 'nother edit: As far as expanding, I should also point out we've gone from glowies making noise to adding a mechanic to (in theory) having the last one(s) show up visually on the map - when that works - years ago. As well as (in theory) the last enemy NPCs, though patrols can also make this wonky.

You say you like "exploring" in the reply to Patti. This change does not keep you from exploring. It DOES, however, mean you don't have to go over the same part of the (potentially very large) map five, six, ten times trying to find ONE NPC tucked in a corner behind a door under a potted plant. I *highly* doubt you find that "enjoyable." This is not an "explorer versus rusher" issue. If anything, this would provide some consistency, as glowies *already do this.* Do you consider that ruining your "exploring?" Do you call the people who listen for glowies "brainless" as you did in your first post in here? Frankly, what you're trying to use as a counterargument doesn't give you a leg to stand on, given it's an already existing system in the game for an identical purpose.

Origins are baked too deeply into character creation that they cannot be changed. They're one of four things (the others being AT, primary and secondary) that can't be changed. Also, while I wouldn't mind more tip missions, and some origin-related arcs and such, I honestly don't think I'd want "bonuses" for origins. Finding a way to mix them? Sure. Bonuses? I'd rather have them fit the character thematically, not be a "I am going to need +acc" or whatever.

Ice armor's pretty cool as is, though I know some people have issues with the graphics. Don't think I've gotten one to 50 yet. Working on that.

Another surprise pickup. Rad/rad brute. Ultraviolent Ray. Seems like an obvious play to me...

No "shivan plagues" in Echo:Galaxy, please. Or dropships in the RCS. Atlas exists because it looks different, pre graphical update, and there are people who didn't like it. Want a quick example? Compare city hall old and new.

Absolutely not, thanks. If it were hard to get into BB, Siren's, WB or RV because of the PVP population, you may have a point, but right now you'd just be giving more people who want nothing to *do* with PVP even *more* reason to avoid the zones. There's not enough of a PVP population to even entertain the thought of the idea of this. These zones may not be *heavily* used, but they are used. On top of it, we very specifically do *not* need a level 1-15 PVP zone. There's enough of a power disparity in BB with 15-25 (even ignoring the +5 levels of powers when exemping down.) We don't need someone getting their jollies messing with people that have all of 1-2 attacks and nothing (or TOs, which are essentially nothing) in them. (Note I don't call those people PVPers. THese would be the same people who used to enjoy teleporting people off tall buildings - thus the devs adding the "prompt teleport" prompt - or into guard towers, thus prompting a redesign with a back exit. These people are known as "asses.") Edit: To be clear, this is not coming from someone anti-PVP. I used to enjoy PVP, even if I didn't build for it. Some of my fondest memories of the game on live are things like my ma/regen stalker and a ma/regen scrapper fighting for a good 15 minutes straight and getting nowhere (it was amusing,) or my corr, another corruptor and a dom holding Siren's for a good while until there were just too many heroes, or - well, multiple things with my energy/energy brute. I could go on. Even here, I go into PVP zones expecting PVP. I've even gone in looking for it, burning time on (say) the Sirens "battles" and having nobody show up for a good hour and change during prime time. Even with that, I'm opposed to this idea.