are tankers still needed?

[cparks7040]

brutes can do 96% of what tankers can but with way better damage, trollers can hold a whole group with 1 power. blasters and scrappers can blow away entire mobs with little effort. corr, def, dom etc help everyone blow stuff away or hold it in place. where do tankers fit into this? with IO sets and incarnate abilities every class can be a tanker but without the draw back of low damage. my tank only has 3000 hit points im sure brutes probly have twice that and twice the damage. the sad thing is tankers cant even taunt a whole group. i dont understand why they have 3 taunts, 1 in attacks, the gauntlet power, and the activated power. im just finding it hard to see how tankers are of any use.

[Williwaw]

... no brute has 6000 HP.  Brute max HP and max max HP (with all possible +HP buffs) are both lower than Tanker max HP and max max HP (1500/3200 for Brute, 1900/3500 for Tanker)

 

As for the rest of it, have you been to the test server lately?

 

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Williwaw

[Sunrunner]

Tanker is not needed; no Archetype is needed -- they never were.  Everyone can be useful, no one is needed.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Sunrunner
missing bit

[Spotlore]

I like to think that CoH does have a trinity mechanic, but its not a traditional one.  It can be mixed and matched.  Sure you can do just fine with DPS, Healer, Tank.  On CoH you can go controller tanking, defender bubbles instead of heals, Sentinal DPS, and do just fine.  Really on CoH its the more the merrier when it comes to groups.  I can't say I've ever had a bad combo in a group.  I have had groups get greedy with XP and crank the difficulty up to high though.  

[DR_Mechano]

18 minutes ago, Spotlore said:

I like to think that CoH does have a trinity mechanic, but its not a traditional one.  It can be mixed and matched.  Sure you can do just fine with DPS, Healer, Tank.  On CoH you can go controller tanking, defender bubbles instead of heals, Sentinal DPS, and do just fine.  Really on CoH its the more the merrier when it comes to groups.  I can't say I've ever had a bad combo in a group.  I have had groups get greedy with XP and crank the difficulty up to high though.  

There is one very minor exception, as I've relearned this week. the LGTF and Hamidon NEEDS people who can spam holds, now the AT itself doesn't matter but you're not defeating hamidon without stacking holds. So far that's pretty much the only content required that can't be done by just any old group as I found out when my no-CC heavy DPS group hit Hami in the LGTF.

Edited September 14, 2019 by DR_Mechano

[Redlynne]

"Hamidon NEEDS to be HELD."

 

Sounds like a bumper sticker campaign ...

[PaxArcana]

Tankers were never NEEDED.

 

Useful and/or handy to have around, but never absolutely needed.

 

NO single AT has ever been "needed" like that.  🙂

[THEDarkTyger]

6 hours ago, cparks7040 said:

brutes can do 96% of what tankers can but with way better damage, trollers can hold a whole group with 1 power. blasters and scrappers can blow away entire mobs with little effort. corr, def, dom etc help everyone blow stuff away or hold it in place. where do tankers fit into this? with IO sets and incarnate abilities every class can be a tanker but without the draw back of low damage. my tank only has 3000 hit points im sure brutes probly have twice that and twice the damage. the sad thing is tankers cant even taunt a whole group. i dont understand why they have 3 taunts, 1 in attacks, the gauntlet power, and the activated power. im just finding it hard to see how tankers are of any use.

Part of the beauty of this game. NO AT is "needed".

[Yomo Kimyata]

Anecdotally, I'd say that the need for a tanker role, i.e., attract attention and take the alpha, is certainly useful and desirable in a large team.  I did a bunch of Yin TFs on pick-up teams when it was TF of the week, and found myself taking on that role as scrappers, brutes and controllers.  I would have preferred someone else do it, but people seem to like having a point person to follow.

 

In general, I think that tankers tend to serve that role best.  I certainly like having one on my team, but it's by no means mandatory.

[Eva Destruction]

4 hours ago, DR_Mechano said:

There is one very minor exception, as I've relearned this week. the LGTF and Hamidon NEEDS people who can spam holds, now the AT itself doesn't matter but you're not defeating hamidon without stacking holds. So far that's pretty much the only content required that can't be done by just any old group as I found out when my no-CC heavy DPS group hit Hami in the LGTF.

There's also the Barracuda SF, which is literally impossible to complete without a Mastermind or Defender.  No, a Corruptor or Controller won't do.  It's an incredibly stupid mechanic that never should have been in this game.

[ShardWarrior]

No AT is "needed". 

[nihilii]

5 hours ago, DR_Mechano said:

There is one very minor exception, as I've relearned this week. the LGTF and Hamidon NEEDS people who can spam holds, now the AT itself doesn't matter but you're not defeating hamidon without stacking holds. So far that's pretty much the only content required that can't be done by just any old group as I found out when my no-CC heavy DPS group hit Hami in the LGTF.

You can actually take down green mitos without holds, provided your team is very heavy on damage and great at coordination.

 

LGTF mitos have about 800hp and (I believe) 90% res while unheld, so "all" you need is the ability to spike ~8000 damage in a couple seconds (so other mitos don't have the time to heal them).

 

Assuming a full team, most DPS characters can reach that level of damage in burst (500 per character), popping rages.

To be fair, that's such a high level of effort compared to simply holding the damn things, my post is almost pedantic. 😛

Hamidon is poo poo and breaks all the rules.

 

 

[Abraxus]

I have always had the best times playing on teams where the balance of archetypes was a good mixture of damage (ranged, and melee), and support in any form, all built around a strong tank.  Temper that with the difficulty set high enough to be dangerous to a foolish team that rushes in, or insists on separating, but not so high that the only one who survives the first mob for any length of time, is the tank.  I like having to have a strategy which is flexible enough to be dependent on the enemies we face, and a team willing to stick to it without feeling like things move to slow.  Mainly, I love teaming with folks who love playing this game as much as I do, free from ulterior motives like how much of a stat/influence/XP/Merit/Incarnate boost it is to their character. 

 

The bottom line is that I love playing this game, and I'll team with anyone, regardless of the mix of archetypes, or mission difficulty.  But, the best times are had when everything clicks, and everyone is on the same page for as long as it lasts. 

[Riverdusk]

Do find it funny every AT could probably start a topic like this, in fact in the controller forum there already is one: 

 

 

I even commented in that one, tankers have in the past often made controllers feel "not needed" especially.  And now with the buffs they are getting, probably more so.

[Ael]

Nothing is "needed" anymore, never has been. With incarnate abilities especially.

[Abraxus]

1 hour ago, Ael said:

Nothing is "needed" anymore, never has been. With incarnate abilities especially.

I'm good with useful.

[PaxArcana]

5 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

I'm good with useful.

... and everything is useful.

(Unless someone works REALLY gorram hard at intentionally being useless, of course. 😄 )

[Redlynne]

3 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

(Unless someone works REALLY gorram hard at intentionally being useless, of course. 😄 )

Or if they go AFK ... because ... There's Always One ...

Edited September 15, 2019 by Redlynne

[PaxArcana]

Eh.  I meant that all archetypes are useful.

 

Some players, however, absolutely are downright useless.  😄

[Oubliette_Red]

19 hours ago, Sunrunner said:

Tanker is not needed; no Archetype is needed -- they never were.  Everyone can be useful, no one is needed.

Pretty much what I was going to say.

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

... and everything is useful.

(Unless someone works REALLY gorram hard at intentionally being useless, of course. 😄 )

You mean like:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Dysfunctional Maximus: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Martial Arts
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- DefBuff(A)
Level 1: Thunder Kick -- Taunt(A)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- RechRdx(A)
Level 4: Boxing -- RechRdx(A)
Level 6: Kick -- RechRdx(A)
Level 8: Jump Kick -- RechRdx(A)
Level 10: Super Jump -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(46)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Jump(A)
Level 14: Acrobatics -- RechRdx(A)
Level 16: Mystic Flight -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(48)
Level 18: Teleport -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(48)
Level 20: Teleport Foe -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(48)
Level 22: Warrior's Provocation -- RechRdx(A)
Level 24: Focus Chi -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(50)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- RechRdx(A)
Level 28: Cross Punch -- RechRdx(A)
Level 30: Wet Ice -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(50)
Level 32: Hibernate -- RechRdx(A)
Level 35: Conserve Power -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Tough -- RechRdx(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- Heal(A)
Level 44: Energy Torrent -- RechRdx(A)
Level 47: Storm Kick -- RechRdx(A)
Level 49: Chilling Embrace -- RechRdx(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(3), RechRdx(3), RechRdx(5), RechRdx(5), RechRdx(7)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- EndRdx(A), Jump(7), Run(9), Jump(9), Run(11), Jump(11)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- EndRdx(A), Jump(13), Run(13), Jump(15), Run(15), Jump(17)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- EndRdx(A), Jump(17), Run(19), Jump(19), Run(21), Jump(21)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- EndRdx(A), Jump(23), Run(23), Jump(25), Run(25), Jump(27)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- EndRdx(A), Jump(27), Run(29), Jump(29), Run(31), Jump(31)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump(A), Jump(31), Jump(33), Run(33), Run(33), EndRdx(34)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(34), Heal(34), Heal(36), EndMod(36), IntRdx(36)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run(A), Flight(37), Run(37), Flight(37), Run(39), Flight(39)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(39), Heal(40), Heal(40), Heal(40), Heal(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A), Jump(42), Jump(42), Jump(43), Jump(43), Jump(43)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(45), EndMod(45), EndMod(45), EndMod(46), EndMod(46)
------------

 

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[ParaBruce]

I need a picture of Peter Weller as Buckaroo Banzai pointing and shouting, "Evil! Evil, pure and simple, from the eighth dimension!"

 

[Draugrok]

18 hours ago, Redlynne said:

"Hamidon NEEDS to be HELD."

 

Sounds like a bumper sticker campaign ...

We all need to be held sometime.

[TheOtherTed]

4 hours ago, ParaBruce said:

I need a picture of Peter Weller as Buckaroo Banzai pointing and shouting, "Evil! Evil, pure and simple, from the eighth dimension!"

 

 

 

[ParaBruce]

@TheOtherTed, you are my hero of the day.