rework Teleportation Power Pool Rework

[Zepp]

11 hours ago, Zepp said:

Let's look at the discussion so far (tell me if I missed something):

• Recall Friend - Very useful, but animation time and recharge may be a tad long. Better to have Recall Friend than Recall Team. May also need a larger range.
• Teleport - Endurance cost is high for performance. Great long distance, notsogood in close quarters, needs an update. There is a whole thread on what could be done.
• Teleport Foe - Average power that needs to at least be adjusted to remove aggro-induction (edit: also consider removing the interrupt). Other suggestions include confuse or disorient effect and possibly damage. The magnitude may also need to be considered.
• Long Range Teleport - A power that may not need to be adjusted!
• Team Teleport - Useless power. Some suggestions include changing it to Recall Team, replacing it with a combat power, or turn into an offensive team buff & TP attack.

 

Also, make sure we consider the impact on PVP for proposed changes.

Just thought I'd update a little with suggested replacements for Team Teleport:

 

Travel

Recall Team (Like Recall Friend, but for the entire team)

Long Range Recall Friend (Recalling a friend from a different zone)

Long Range Recall Team (Recalling the entire team, no matter what zone they are in)

 

Defense

Combat Teleport (Short range teleport with defense and teleport protection)

Displacement (Gaussian Blur effect with defense, speed buff, and teleport protection)

Dimensional Anchor (Location PBAoE hold and teleport protection)

Team Combat Teleport (Short range team teleport with team defense buff)

 

Offense

Team Wormhole (Group Spring Attack with KB->KD proc)

"Wormhole" (Like the Gravity Control power, but not quite as good)

Ambush (Team TP with stealth, no hover, and chance to confuse enemies for one attack)

Teleport Shock (Spring Attack with Stun instead of KB)

Teleport Assault (Chain attack)

Perhaps focusing on the discussion of these ideas would be the most fruitful as it seems most people agree on the first four powers [although the specifics regarding what to do with Teleport are being discussed in another thread]...

[GM Sijin]

2 hours ago, Zepp said:

Recharge time starts after the animation time. If I recall, isn't there a 6s animation time on Recall Friend?

Just under, yep. 

[Zepp]

That is a fairly long animation, especially if you are teleporting an entire team.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

On 9/14/2019 at 9:43 PM, Zepp said:

Sorry, I had confused Assemble the Team and Team Teleport. I think it would just be better to change Team Teleport to Recall Team and eliminate Recall Friend.

 

I am not sure it needs damage, as it serves a purpose of isolating enemies as it is. The issue is aggroing the mobs you aren't TPing...

 

 

Im not trying to come off as combative nor belittle your post but this is a great example of someone not really taking the time to make a well thought out  post, but someone coming out half cocked.

 

Team Teleport has always been a blah power only mildly useful for even niche builds like MM. Same with group fly. Assemble the team should indeed be what it gets changed to, However not at the cost of removing recall friend.  I can only guess you dont TF much nor prefer the stealthy tactical strike approach of a team not interested in mass slaughter.

 

Since year one TF builds using super speed, stealth, and recall friend as pool picks by lvl 14 was a go to pool choice for a serious tf commander intent on getting even the worst teams through TFs in a timely manner.

 

ATT while very handy is so slow on recharge and not all that often to be had by more casual players that one cant always rely on taking turns with mish tp and att to keep the group together.

 

Content is deisgned to be skipped or we wouldnt have stealth powers open to all. So the ability to offer some utility to the party in this way is a good thing imo.

 

As far as recall foe, any power that cant hurt bosses or avs is basically a throw away power. there is very little in the way of content in this game where recall foe is actually more useful then a stalker going in ASing the big bad then smoke bombing to shed aggro,  IMO that is what TP foe should be an attack like a snipe that instant kills a target, but should negate any reward or drops from that mob. Ive seen such mechanics for powers of similar concepts in RPGs for years. a potent attack that basically cant fail wont work on big story bosses, but on even the biggest scariest random mobs at the cost of no reward.

[Zepp]

@Bentley Berkeley

Talking about posting half-cocked. I already apologized for my mistake in that regard in the fourth post of this thread. I had thought it was a version of Assemble the Team, partially because what it is is so unbelievably stupid that my mind could not accept what it was.

Now, I'll give you some time to read through the thread and then you can write a post that contributes to the discussion, rather than restating what has already been stated as one suggestion. In fact, three posts prior to yours is a post that clearly summarizes all the proposed powers to replace Team Teleport with.

[Megajoule]

While we're at it: I realize this is a little outside the purview of this thread, and/or what Homecoming staff are capable of, but - what are the chances of changing the LR Teleport icon?  It's always bothered me, to the point that I've replaced it with a macro (using the regular Teleport icon, which isn't on my bar because I use The Teleport Bind™) ; it just does not (IMO) fit in with the 'style' of the original icons.  It is ugly.

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Megajoule

[Tad Cooper]

Ok, this is something I've been kicking around in my head for a while. The Medicine Pool has Field Medic, which improves all the other powers, yeah? Why not something like that for Teleport? We drop Team Teleport and replace with a cheap toggle power that increases all movement speed and maybe defense because you're just so good at teleporting now you're just constantly making little jumps.  While the toggle is active all your other Teleport powers are also super-charged. The speed increase should be high enough to overcome the Hover Tar, Recall Friend becomes Assemble the Team, Teleport Foe becomes Wormhole-lite by doing multiple foes and/or adding a stun, and Long Range Teleport pulls the whole team to your destination. Add options for "Mission Entrance" and "Supergroup Base" to LRT. This way the indoor movement problems are reduced, and the whole set gets a ton of utility by basically offering faster recharging versions of the P2W powers.

[GM Sijin]

5 minutes ago, Tad Cooper said:

Ok, this is something I've been kicking around in my head for a while. The Medicine Pool has Field Medic, which improves all the other powers, yeah? Why not something like that for Teleport? We drop Team Teleport and replace with a cheap toggle power that increases all movement speed and maybe defense because you're just so good at teleporting now you're just constantly making little jumps.  While the toggle is active all your other Teleport powers are also super-charged. The speed increase should be high enough to overcome the Hover Tar, Recall Friend becomes Assemble the Team, Teleport Foe becomes Wormhole-lite by doing multiple foes and/or adding a stun, and Long Range Teleport pulls the whole team to your destination. Add options for "Mission Entrance" and "Supergroup Base" to LRT. This way the indoor movement problems are reduced, and the whole set gets a ton of utility by basically offering faster recharging versions of the P2W powers.

That's a whole lotta power for one power.

[Tad Cooper]

Just now, GM Sijin said:

That's a whole lotta power for one power.

I was thinking it would be in the top spot, so it's a lot of power for three powers. Which bit concerns you?

[GM Sijin]

29 minutes ago, Tad Cooper said:

I was thinking it would be in the top spot, so it's a lot of power for three powers. Which bit concerns you?

The fact that, by taking one power, you make 2 other powers up to 7 times as effective, a global movement buff, potentially a defense buff, and another power moderately to significantly more potent. The power disparity with/without is extreme, especially when compared to the effects of the power used as an example: Field Medic.

[Some Random User]

Just chiming in here...

 

Do you want to do something with [Group Fly] as well? The [Team Teleport] is a vestigial relic. I feel there is a larger game design question going on there that has an impact beyond just the Teleport Pool.

[Flashtoo]

Hi, teleport concept-main here!

 

I still get use from Recall Friend. There are two situations in particular where I would definitely NOT want to hit the entire team with it:

 

1. If I'm the only support AT on a team or if there's otherwise nobody with a combat-viable rez power, Recall Friend can remove a KO'd teammate from danger where they can pop a wakie and I can de-mez them where they won't immediately faceplant again;

2. One teammate had to go AFK on a large map, especially a lab with multiple elevators to navigate, and the team is now far away from that player.

 

That said: Changes to TP Foe, addition of viable attacks to the pool (Animation from Burst Of Speed as seen in the blaster Marital secondary? Ohh yes!), and ESPECIALLY letting me use the animation from Mystic Flight's Translocation for my teleporting would absolutely catch my attention.

[Some Random User]

On 9/15/2019 at 7:21 AM, GM Sijin said:

Change it to be a team recall friend.

Is there a way to code [Recall Friend] so that activation without anyone selected instead performs [Assemble the Team] with an appropriate Endurance cost?

 

This would allow [Recall Friend] to retain utility of a single-target teleport while also letting me get everyone to me.

[Cooltastic]

25 minutes ago, Some Random User said:

Just chiming in here...

 

Do you want to do something with [Group Fly] as well? The [Team Teleport] is a vestigial relic. I feel there is a larger game design question going on there that has an impact beyond just the Teleport Pool.

I know this a Teleport Pool thread, but since you brought it up. I'd like to see Group Fly get tossed out and replace with a Dive Bomb attack that can only be activated while either hovering or flying. When activated it turns off any flight powers you have on and sends your character hurtling straight down in a superman dive bomb punch sort of way. Cause's damage and knockback to any enemies in the landing radius. Could use a mix of Earth breakage FX already in the game.

[Some Random User]

49 minutes ago, Cooltastic said:

I know this a Teleport Pool thread, but since you brought it up. I'd like to see Group Fly get tossed out and replace with a Dive Bomb attack that can only be activated while either hovering or flying. When activated it turns off any flight powers you have on and sends your character hurtling straight down in a superman dive bomb punch sort of way. Cause's damage and knockback to any enemies in the landing radius. Could use a mix of Earth breakage FX already in the game.

That would be sweet.

[GM Sijin]

1 hour ago, Some Random User said:

Is there a way to code [Recall Friend] so that activation without anyone selected instead performs [Assemble the Team] with an appropriate Endurance cost?

 

This would allow [Recall Friend] to retain utility of a single-target teleport while also letting me get everyone to me.

Maybe, but I doubt they would give recall friend that functionality baseline.

[Redlynne]

Okay ... throwing away the box for thinking here ...

 

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

 

Basically we're trying to cram too many "functions" into too few power slots.

We want to have:

• Single Target Only
• Multi-Target

• Self Only
• Teammate Only
• Foe Only

And we want to be able to mix and match these functions more fluidly than the arrangement of powers allows us using legacy design parameters.

5 hours ago, Tad Cooper said:

The Medicine Pool has Field Medic, which improves all the other powers, yeah? Why not something like that for Teleport?

No no ... not improves ... CONVERTS.  Swaps.

 

3 minutes ago, GM Sijin said:

I doubt they would give recall friend that functionality baseline.

 

Consider this hypothetical formulation.

 

The T1 power brings Teammate(s) nearby to the Caster ... single or multiple.

The T2 power brings Foe(s) nearby to the Caster ... single or multiple.

The T3 power "travels" the Caster ... locally or to other zones.

 

So what do you need to flip between these alternatives "on demand" for when the situation needs it?

 

Simple ... you add a modifier power as the T4 ... just like the Field Medic power in Medicine!

• T1 alone recalls Teammate (single) near to the Caster.
• T1+T4 recalls all Teammates (plural) in the zone near to the Caster.

• T2 alone brings a Foe (singular) near to the Caster.
• T2+T4 brings a Target AoE of Foes (plural) near to the Caster.

• T3 alone Teleports the Caster up to (unenhanced) 100 yards away.
• T3+T4 brings Long Range Teleports the Caster to other zones.

You can set up the T4 as a click power with a 10 second duration and a 60 second recharge.  The idea being that you'd only want to use the T4 modified versions of the T1-T3 powers once or twice (or even three times with the T2+T4) before you seriously start doing other stuff for a while.

 

 

 

And best of all, you'd still have the T5 slot available for doing ... SOMETHING ELSE ...

 

The most hilarious thing that I can think of, which almost certainly couldn't be supported, would be to make the T5 into a Teleport Foe AWAY from the Caster rather than towards.  It would basically function as a sort of "keep away" power rather than as a "get over here!" type power.  Basic idea is that the T5 would have a VARIABLE range parameter (which I don't think can be done!) which would import the range parameter of the attack power used AFTER the T5 is cast.  If the attack power used after the T5 is cast has an 80ft range, then use of that attack power would Teleport the Foe 80ft away from the Caster in a straight line away from the caster (and obstacles would shorten this range just like with any standard teleport, so you can't push stuff past geometry/walls/etc.).  Basically, whatever the range of an attack power is, the T5 relocates all $Targets hit by that power to the range of that attack power upon hitting them (although obstacles to the teleport will shorten that range).

• T5 alone would Teleport Foe (singular) out to the range of the next single target Ranged attack.
• T5+T4 would Teleport Foes (plural) out to the range of the next Cone or Target AoE attack.

Total pie in the sky wishful thinking that ... but sometimes it's fun to dream.

[Cooltastic]

3 hours ago, Redlynne said:

The most hilarious thing that I can think of, which almost certainly couldn't be supported, would be to make the T5 into a Teleport Foe AWAY from the Caster rather than towards.  It would basically function as a sort of "keep away" power rather than as a "get over here!" type power.  Basic idea is that the T5 would have a VARIABLE range parameter (which I don't think can be done!) which would import the range parameter of the attack power used AFTER the T5 is cast.  If the attack power used after the T5 is cast has an 80ft range, then use of that attack power would Teleport the Foe 80ft away from the Caster in a straight line away from the caster (and obstacles would shorten this range just like with any standard teleport, so you can't push stuff past geometry/walls/etc.).  Basically, whatever the range of an attack power is, the T5 relocates all $Targets hit by that power to the range of that attack power upon hitting them (although obstacles to the teleport will shorten that range).

• T5 alone would Teleport Foe (singular) out to the range of the next single target Ranged attack.
• T5+T4 would Teleport Foes (plural) out to the range of the next Cone or Target AoE attack.

Total pie in the sky wishful thinking that ... but sometimes it's fun to dream.

You could just make it so that they are repelled away from the caster phased shifted/invisible/and untargetable for a certain amount of time. You could make the repel crazy fast so that it feels like they're getting teleported back.

[Redlynne]

9 minutes ago, Cooltastic said:

You could just make it so that they are repelled away from the caster phased shifted/invisible/and untargetable for a certain amount of time. You could make the repel crazy fast so that it feels like they're getting teleported back.

Repel is a ... different mechanic.  It's NOT Teleport.

If it's the Teleport pool, the power mechanic needs to BE a Teleport.

 

As advertised though, I sincerely doubt that kind of performance is even possible for the proposed T5, due to ... limitations ... of how the powers are coded.

But it is fun to dream up pie in the sky.

[Cooltastic]

Hey, just think of it as MAGIC! You can't tell what's going on behind the curtain, all you know is what you see! So to you, it looks like they teleported away. lol

[Zepp]

6 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Consider this hypothetical formulation.

 

The T1 power brings Teammate(s) nearby to the Caster ... single or multiple.

The T2 power brings Foe(s) nearby to the Caster ... single or multiple.

The T3 power "travels" the Caster ... locally or to other zones.

 

So what do you need to flip between these alternatives "on demand" for when the situation needs it?

 

Simple ... you add a modifier power as the T4 ... just like the Field Medic power in Medicine!

• T1 alone recalls Teammate (single) near to the Caster.
• T1+T4 recalls all Teammates (plural) in the zone near to the Caster.

• T2 alone brings a Foe (singular) near to the Caster.
• T2+T4 brings a Target AoE of Foes (plural) near to the Caster.

• T3 alone Teleports the Caster up to (unenhanced) 100 yards away.
• T3+T4 brings Long Range Teleports the Caster to other zones.

You can set up the T4 as a click power with a 10 second duration and a 60 second recharge.  The idea being that you'd only want to use the T4 modified versions of the T1-T3 powers once or twice (or even three times with the T2+T4) before you seriously start doing other stuff for a while.

This is actually fairly reasonable. You wouldn't have to change the animation time for recall friend, but it would still be faster than recall friend one at a time.

I think for the T2 it should be different though. T2 alone is Teleport Foe without Aggro, T2 + T4 is Teleport Foe without Aggro, but with a Mag 3 Disorient. I don't think we want it to overlap Wormhole too much by making it a multi-target power.

And I like how you basically made the T4 able to be the same as the T4 currently is by adding LRTP to the T3.

That being said, I do not think that we all agree on having an attack power in the set. While a Chain TP attack or a Spring Attack like power, the lack of a defensive power is a broader hole than the lack of an attack.

That being said, one possible idea is to make the T5 Tactical Teleport: low endurance, 10' range, 0.8s animation time, 1s recharge, +Def (15s, non-stacking, similar value to combat jumping). If you trigger the T4 you can then use a Chain Melee attack, which acts like a chain attack and allows you to hit up to ten targets (3 alternating fast aerial attack animations).

[Tad Cooper]

12 hours ago, GM Sijin said:

The fact that, by taking one power, you make 2 other powers up to 7 times as effective, a global movement buff, potentially a defense buff, and another power moderately to significantly more potent. The power disparity with/without is extreme, especially when compared to the effects of the power used as an example: Field Medic.

How on earth is that seven times more effective? Recall Friend has a 4 second interrupt window, it's not exactly an oh shit power. All you're saving is time, which was why people wanted it replaced earlier in the thread. Could easily make the Recall Friend->Assemble the Team cost more endurance. Maybe just multiply it by the cost for casting it on each team member. Could also apply a debuff that stops you from doing it twice in a certain period, which one would hope is less than half an hour because goddamn that's annoying.

 

The metrics say a whopping 1703 characters took Long Range Teleport. I'm one of them: I basically never use it. It was something to throw in at 50 that didn't need slots. It needs some oomph, especially with /enterbasefrompasscode going away or getting nerfed or whatever.  It's thematic, too. Gateway from Marvel, Raven from Teen Titans (at least the cartoon), I'm sure a bunch of other people move the whole team right where they need to go. As it is, an investment of three powers minimum to be basically equivalent to a P2W power everybody gets doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Especially when, again, it only saves time.

 

As for the defense bonus, Zepp covered why I even mentioned it. The other sets all get some form of Defense, except Speed and that USED to have it. They just decided in Issue 1 that Hasten was too fucking awesome because everyone was taking it and removed it. Obviously that 5% defense was why it was so popular. 🙂 Just movement speed would cover the other glaring inconveniences of Teleport: it's basically useless indoors and briefly freezes you outside. So a movement speed buff would let you move during the hover mud, which almost everyone finds infuriating, and let you get around indoors more easily. I wasn't suggesting that it let you break caps, just be a faster version of sprint or similar to having the Jump Pack on while you're flying. Again, like P2W powers that everyone gets.

9 hours ago, Redlynne said:

A bunch of cool ideas

I like all this too. Especially how the Teleport->LRT thing.

[0th Power]

Idea for the t5. don’t know if it’s possible.

combat teleport-toggle:

when active you teleport into range of your next qued attack. Could be a constant endurance drain or every time you port. Would be great for melee willing to invest the power choices, probably helpful for sentinels too. 

[Some Random User]

10 hours ago, Redlynne said:

• T1 alone recalls Teammate (single) near to the Caster.
• T1+T4 recalls all Teammates (plural) in the zone near to the Caster.

• T2 alone brings a Foe (singular) near to the Caster.
• T2+T4 brings a Target AoE of Foes (plural) near to the Caster.

• T3 alone Teleports the Caster up to (unenhanced) 100 yards away.
• T3+T4 brings Long Range Teleports the Caster to other zones.

You can set up the T4 as a click power with a 10 second duration and a 60 second recharge.  The idea being that you'd only want to use the T4 modified versions of the T1-T3 powers once or twice (or even three times with the T2+T4) before you seriously start doing other stuff for a while.

 

And best of all, you'd still have the T5 slot available for doing ... SOMETHING ELSE ...

If only I could upvote this post more emphatically.

[Some Random User]

43 minutes ago, 0th Power said:

Idea for the t5. don’t know if it’s possible.

combat teleport-toggle:

when active you teleport into range of your next qued attack. Could be a constant endurance drain or every time you port. Would be great for melee willing to invest the power choices, probably helpful for sentinels too. 

This.